The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 4

[BigThor]

^ Definately not, if Rhodes hadn't done the armor yet I wouldn't have a problem with it.

With me it's a "too many armored characters" complaint, it doesn't have aything to do with their gender.

[SpideyFan866]

Why do you all hate rescue!!?!???!?!?!?!?!???

[crounsa810]

Originally Posted by LokiDionysos

I think it could end up becoming self-aware and we'll see a combination of things played out.
It starts out as the rescue/almost self-aware but it's easier for Mandarin to lure it out and turn it against Tony out in the open after it saves him. Easier than it is to try to infiltrate and turn one of his other suits against him.

It might wind up under Mandarin's control temporarily after infected with Extremis. Mandarin manipulates it briefly like one of the 10 organizations he ran. One of the rings in Mandi's operation for world domination could have been loosely controlled by him via Stane. That is, until Tony survived, retaking control of his company...

But when Stane died, Mandarin lost control of one of the companies/groups he had his fingers in. This affected his ultimate plan. I really think Mandarin will have a plan for world domination -- conquering like an Emperor would rather than a king or dictator (Loki & Red Skull's modus operandis). Although, unlike Loki he's not after an audience until he's ready to teach... Most of his Empire is hidden in the shadows until he emerges. So Shield and the other heroes don't have a chance to respond to his plan, and didn't see it coming. He's used his hidden Empire to secure his plans for the world, and because he secretly controls many things and suddenly emerges Shield doesn't know where all his power is coming from. At this point Mandarin is somehow in control of the nearly resurrected Hydra, which is tied into the many heads of his organization now. Hydra remains in the Shadows too and is only seen through AIM. Mandarin may be counting on them reemerging as he begins his conquest. The hydra went beneath the surface and regrew its heads -- with Mandarin as the controlling head for now. Someone else regains control of AIM in the after credits when Mandarin is presumed dead. This person would announce the return of Hydra (taking over almost all of Mandi's remaining assets), and leaves us with a teaser to Captain America 2 that can also tie into Thor 2 in some ways.

However, Mandarin's Empire has been hidden in the shadows because he knew he had to secure certain things before beginning his lessons. He learned from the mistakes of past Emperors and Conquerors.. but Iron Man will inevitably stop him and some of his network. Mandi doesn't know much about Hydra's involvement, so Hydra simply hides behind AIM and waits to regain power of the entire network from the Mandarin. They believed in heroes... they met one personally, and aren't going to take any risks that may alert Iron Man, Cap or Shield about their true goals, and why they had Mandarin help rebuild/resurrect their hidden Empire while he was building his...

Right now his Empire is made up of the 10 groups that his hidden network is comprised of. He names the terrorist group this as an homage to his hidden empire that will soon spring forth to be revealed, secretly invading/conquering countries and companies in a way similar to how he gained power. Turning things against themselves and using their own power to try to eliminate them. He secretly runs Oracle and Aim (possibly influences Hammer industries and Russian groups), and will also act like an Oracle in his AIM with the way he tries to be prophetic. Using cultural knowledge, and knowledge of history/the past to teach some history lessons & make powerful statements about the future. "If we can't learn from the past we're destined to repeat it"... and Mandarin is not your typical wanna-be Emperor, or even a wanna be King... He learned the lessons of past Emperors and his Ancestor, and has a better plan of spreading his Empire in mind. His performance may outshine Loki's, because of how Mandarin chooses to rule things. In secret, as an unseen Emperor for the most part. To make sure the unruly humans do what he wants. He feels he's teaching them and guiding them towards his Empire with his mixture of cultural and historical lessons.

Tony had to be eliminated for Mandarin to secretly get the weapons he needs built by Stark Industries. The problem is Tony miraculously survived, gave the company a makeover and killed Stane.
Stark Industries was part of Mandarin's hidden Empire. He does weird things like funds both sides from multiple angles. So he's not your average Terrorist leader, he's out to teach the world some lessons. He even has to teach lessons to the groups that grow out of his hidden network of control (He controls the news & media to a certain extent). He turns things against one another or against themselves when he feels he needs to sever a finger that he has lost control over.

Stark Industries becomes self-aware and somewhat knowledgeable about some sort of link between the first attempt at taking Tony's life, the second one in IM2, and the multiple attempts that occur in this movie (hundreds of people who wanna kill him is an exaggeration, but still).

Stane and Raza each had representations of one of the rings and were supposed to kill Tony so Mandarin could retain control of the company he secretly ruled through Stane, and the corresponding ring that controlled Stane. Mandarin has a corresponding ring for each of the 10 people he controlled. He knows all about the Iron Man tech, how it operates, all Iron Man's deepest secrets through Stane, and may have been controlling Stane to an extent far greater than I'm hinting at. He gave all the designs to his Oracle branch in China. Namor has presumably set up the company but Mandarin is even manipulating Namor's branches in China.
Starks' technology was very important to his plans, but think along the lines of the thing Stane used to stop Tony from moving Stane is revealed to have been working closely with the Mandarin and things come full circle. Mandarin had his men get Vanko onto the track, he was indirectly using Whiplash to try to kill Tony. The Mandarin in this film may study history/other cultures and has his fingers in many pots.

Vanko's history was played against Tony as a way to try to take Stark out of the picture again. All Vanko needed was a little push.
In this movie Mandarin tries other approaches to killing Tony but gets frustrated and has to use a more invasive approach. Then eventually a direct approach.
Tony thinks he's in control of things until all his power and control is taken away. Tony loses control of many things temporarily, he finds himself in a completely desperate state where everything that was once his, and both countries, have turned against him. And are even turned against themselves. He has to regain control of everything, his company included as Mandarin uses Tony's own research to complete his weapon of mass destruction which will subjugate, and give him control of the world once USA and China are no longer a threat.... Note: this is in no way exactly what will happen, but some of the pieces of this theory may be true, and I'm purposely expanding on it to obfuscate the part that is actually true, and what I've found out. I may also be referring to aspects of my other long ass posts as being true, and not necessarily anything in this post. I'm just writing things a certain way to hint at one or two things.

Mandarin uses his hidden infrastructure to plan out and prepare for how his lesson in world domination and Empire building unfolds.

He turns two countries own infrastructures against themselves and then tries to turn those two countries against each other in mutually assured destruction (he controls high ranking members in both gov'ts) His goal is to turn the USA and China against each other to take both out of the picture.... So that Mandarin can rule, (and Russia/Zemo). His plan counts on forcing America and China towards war with each other, then sparking that war, attempting to ensure mutually assured destruction. Knocking both the leading countries, and competition out of Mandarin's way (they hope) by attempting to manipulate the two countries into destroying themselves....

He even plays some of his groups/companies off against each other for a few different reasons, turning AIM against Oracle to knock out the competition (leadership wise) and teaching Hammer a lesson about what happens to traitors: trying to get Hammer to "co-operate".

He's funding all Stark's competition and he even tried to control Stark Industries in this theory. With power partially given to him by Hydra and Zemo, who are hanging back in Russia waiting for Captain America 2. Although he's a mixture of many different groups/cultures' power, and draws from all of them for his plans... plants seeds for many things to come that aren't as easy to see as Zemo and AIM... They're counting on Mandarin's plan to work and take the United States and China out of the picture simultaneously, but plans fall through and the young Zemo has to take control..

Dude..you gotta learn to condense thoughts.

[Fudgie]

Hey he used paragraphs. Give 'em a break.

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

Relax, jeezum crow people.

So what's the skinny on the Rescue armor in the comics? I imagined it as a sort of emergency suit that Tony made on the sly that would activate to protect Pepper and remove her from danger. In fact I think something like that would not only be pretty sweet but something Tony might reasonably do.

I would be willing to bet it will go exactly like this. From the trailer we know that Tony and Pepper are caught up in the destruction of the Malibu dream house. With enemies attacking them from all sides, Tony will realize that Pepper will be in constant danger going forward. Giving her a suit of armor is the logical way of protecting her. If nothing else, the armor will keep Pepper from being injured and allow her to fly to safety. It will rescue her from the Mandarin and who knows what other enemies who will try to harm her.


The argument that this will make Iron Man less unique doesn't make sense to me. War Machine and Rescue are part of the characters' history in the comics, with WM having been around almost 30 years. Fans piss and moan when the movies change too many things from the comics, and now there is pissing and moaning when they include elements. Is Thor less unique because he is surrounded by an entire race of people just like him, with the same origin (Asgard) and super-strength? (Not to mention that goat knockoff, Beta Ray Bill, whom so many fans want to see.) The developments are consistent with the comics and flow logically from the situation in which the characters find themselves. That's all that should matter, IMO.

[CrypticOne]

It'd be crazy if LokiDionysos was right. Good post, man. I do wonder if Mandarin was involved in IM and IM2. I hope they explain it in the movie. That one dude had some kind of a ring for sure, so he must be connected to Mandarin, in some way. And then to have Stane also involved and to get rid of him? Its gonna be interesting for sure. And I do hope this connects to Captain America 2.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by CrypticOne

It'd be crazy if LokiDionysos was right. Good post, man. I do wonder if Mandarin was involved in IM and IM2. I hope they explain it in the movie. That one dude had some kind of a ring for sure, so he must be connected to Mandarin, in some way. And then to have Stane also involved and to get rid of him? Its gonna be interesting for sure. And I do hope this connects to Captain America 2.

Can you summarise what he said in a few short sentences? That post is far too long and hurts my eyes.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by xeno000

I would be willing to bet it will go exactly like this. From the trailer we know that Tony and Pepper are caught up in the destruction of the Malibu dream house. With enemies attacking them from all sides, Tony will realize that Pepper will be in constant danger going forward. Giving her a suit of armor is the logical way of protecting her. If nothing else, the armor will keep Pepper from being injured and allow her to fly to safety. It will rescue her from the Mandarin and who knows what other enemies who will try to harm her.


The argument that this will make Iron Man less unique doesn't make sense to me. War Machine and Rescue are part of the characters' history in the comics, with WM having been around almost 30 years. Fans piss and moan when the movies change too many things from the comics, and now there is pissing and moaning when they include elements. Is Thor less unique because he is surrounded by an entire race of people just like him, with the same origin (Asgard) and super-strength? (Not to mention that goat knockoff, Beta Ray Bill, whom so many fans want to see.) The developments are consistent with the comics and flow logically from the situation in which the characters find themselves. That's all that should matter, IMO.

Great post. Faithful to the mythos only matters if it's the parts some fanboys like from my experience, and the overreactions in this thread epitomise why we carry the stigma we do.

At this point no one knows the context of how Pepper in the armor will work, but it's judged as a disaster, and by some as the ruination of the movie, based off zero details.

[Smashlilman]

Originally Posted by BigThor

^ Definately not, if Rhodes hadn't done the armor yet I wouldn't have a problem with it.

With me it's a "too many armored characters" complaint, it doesn't have aything to do with their gender.

but all in all its an extremely silly argument. It would be like saying there are to many powerful Asgardians in Thor. You've got Odin, Tyr, the Warriors 3, and Seth. There are to many people that think that Ironman should be the only suit wearing person in the movie becasue his suit is what makes him special. They seem to forget that what makes Ironman special is what he can do with his suit and not just that he has a suit. If the movie treats Iron Patriot/War Machine and Rescue as characters isn't of just plot devices then the movie should be ok. I just hope its not like they did with War Machine in Ironman 2. Where they added War Machine just for the sake of adding War Machine.

[Rock Sexton]

Originally Posted by Smashlilman

but all in all its an extremely silly argument. It would be like saying there are to many powerful Asgardians in Thor. You've got Odin, Tyr, the Warriors 3, and Seth. There are to many people that think that Ironman should be the only suit wearing person in the movie becasue his suit is what makes him special. They seem to forget that what makes Ironman special is what he can do with his suit and not just that he has a suit. If the movie treats Iron Patriot/War Machine and Rescue as characters isn't of just plot devices then the movie should be ok. I just hope its not like they did with War Machine in Ironman 2. Where they added War Machine just for the sake of adding War Machine.

Horrible comparison.

Thor is the one and only God of Thunder. There is no other. That is the trait that makes him unique. Same can be said for Stark and his suit. It's all based on the same technology so to keep pilfering it out to other people (even though there are noticeable modifications to the exterior) it still just waters it down a bit. That's just my opinion. It's why I have issues with comic books when they continue to duplicate characters or use borrowed powers.

[R_Hythlodeus]

Originally Posted by SpideyFan866

Why do you all hate rescue!!?!???!?!?!?!?!???

Because it is a stupid idea and takes even more away from Iron Man's uniqueness. If everybody and his grandmother wears an Iron Man armor, then what's special to Tony.
Those characters, like WM, BRB or USAgent are basically clone characters and should be avoided if possible unless there is a real good reason for using them.

[The Caped Knight]

Originally Posted by SpideyFan866

Why do you all hate rescue!!?!???!?!?!?!?!???

It's pointless and unnecessary.

[The Infernal]

I think the Rescue criticisms are generally fair. It may not be the ruination of the movie, but it does feel like a step too far. Like others say it does feel like a suited hero too far. I also think that it's inappropriate for Pepper's character to have her suit up. She's shown herself to be capable and interesting without having to be a 'hero' herself.

[The Guard]

If everyone wears armor, what's so special about Tony?

"Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist."

It isn't the armor alone that makes Stark a great character, or what makes him special. Its the innovations he develops, what he does for the country, the world, and for his friends.

My concern is that if they blow their load in IRON MAN 3, and we get lotsa armors, Iron Patriot, Rescue, The Mandarin, Firepower, Coldblood and Extremis...what on Earth does that leave new for an eventual IRON MAN 4?

More of the same? Rhodey as Iron Man? The Ghost? Madame Masque? The Living Laser? I guess they could always bring in AIM and Modok and various other threats or go the Tony Stark, Director of SHIELD route, but...it just seems like they're using up an awful lot of story opportunities. Maybe they're not planning to make an Iron Man film for a while after this one.

[Hunter Rider]

People are assuming way too much, they have already decided that Pepper will be flying around in armor with Lady parts getting in on the action, yet nothing of the sort has been confirmed.

"What if I can't protect the one thing I can't live without?" is the stand out line of the trailer for me, protecting Pepper as a mortal man after what he saw in New York is something that is clearly a big theme for Tony in this film, so I don't see it being beyond the realm of possibility of him creating an armor that basically rescues Pepper when he is not there to save her, as opposed to her fighting bad guys in it.

[steintym]

I don't know ... I didn't really care for Rescue in the comics, so I'm not that excited about seeing Pepper with her armor in the movie.

[drod1985]

For those debating weather Rhodey's armor will be known as War Machine or Iron Patriot...the official IM Facebook just named it as Iron Patriot.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...7882289&type=1

Here's my thoughts: The armor is Rhodey's, but is either stolen or taken control of by The Mandarin, AIM, or Eric Savin. So the "Lt. Col. James Rhodes" badging makes sense, but then the IP becomes a villain's armor like in the comics.

[Moridin]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

Relax, jeezum crow people.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

So what's the skinny on the Rescue armor in the comics? I imagined it as a sort of emergency suit that Tony made on the sly that would activate to protect Pepper and remove her from danger. In fact I think something like that would not only be pretty sweet but something Tony might reasonably do.

Originally Posted by xeno000

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I would be willing to bet it will go exactly like this. From the trailer we know that Tony and Pepper are caught up in the destruction of the Malibu dream house. With enemies attacking them from all sides, Tony will realize that Pepper will be in constant danger going forward. Giving her a suit of armor is the logical way of protecting her. If nothing else, the armor will keep Pepper from being injured and allow her to fly to safety. It will rescue her from the Mandarin and who knows what other enemies who will try to harm her.


The argument that this will make Iron Man less unique doesn't make sense to me. War Machine and Rescue are part of the characters' history in the comics, with WM having been around almost 30 years. Fans piss and moan when the movies change too many things from the comics, and now there is pissing and moaning when they include elements. Is Thor less unique because he is surrounded by an entire race of people just like him, with the same origin (Asgard) and super-strength? (Not to mention that goat knockoff, Beta Ray Bill, whom so many fans want to see.) The developments are consistent with the comics and flow logically from the situation in which the characters find themselves. That's all that should matter, IMO.

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Great post. Faithful to the mythos only matters if it's the parts some fanboys like from my experience, and the overreactions in this thread epitomise why we carry the stigma we do.

At this point no one knows the context of how Pepper in the armor will work, but it's judged as a disaster, and by some as the ruination of the movie, based off zero details.

Originally Posted by The Guard

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

If everyone wears armor, what's so special about Tony?
"Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist."

It isn't the armor alone that makes Stark a great character, or what makes him special. Its the innovations he develops, what he does for the country, the world, and for his friends

.

All of this^. Especially the bold.
Pepper getting a "Rescue" suit sounds, to me, like an entirely logical step, and just common sense in general, for Tony and the story. Especially, as Hunter pointed out, given the line in the trailer.

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus

If everybody and his grandmother wears an Iron Man armor, then what's special to Tony.

If the suit is the only special thing about Stark then he's a terribly boring character. It all comes back to what someone in the production, maybe Black or Feige, said - to paraphrase "does the suit make the make or does the man make the suit?".

You can stick whoever you want in the armor, that doesn't make them Iron Man.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

Get ready!

to be fair... that just looks like a magazine photo shoot to hype the movie... not actually a scene from the movie.

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by Moridin

All of this^. Especially the bold.
Pepper getting a "Rescue" suit sounds, to me, like an entirely logical step, and just common sense in general, for Tony and the story. Especially, as Hunter pointed out, given the line in the trailer.



If the suit is the only special thing about Stark then he's a terribly boring character. It all comes back to what someone in the production, maybe Black or Feige, said - to paraphrase "does the suit make the make or does the man make the suit?".

You can stick whoever you want in the armor, that doesn't make them Iron Man.

That's it in a nutshell. Other people can wear a suit of armor, but only Tony Stark can build one.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

to be fair... that just looks like a magazine photo shoot to hype the movie... not actually a scene from the movie.

Yeah, the pic of Gwyneth with the Starked-up arm has definitely proven to be from a promo shoot for IM2 several years ago, and it was a prop created just for the magazine.

Hope nobody's seriously trying to say that photo is supposed to be taken from the set of IM3, because it certainly isn't.

[Crimson King]

I see we're all being calm and waiting to see what the Rescue armor is like in the context of the movie before we...OH WAIT.

[Hunter Rider]

The post I made with the old Gwyneth shoot in and the rescue armor with the "get ready" tag was simply a joke because I knew what was about to happen in this thread, nothing more.

[Crimson King]

So you're saying you've seen this happen before...

[Rock Sexton]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

I see we're all being calm and waiting to see what the Rescue armor is like in the context of the movie before we...OH WAIT.

What context do I need?

It's armor. Someone is wearing it. In this case it's Pepper.

Give me a break.