Skyfall vs. TDKR

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

That's just your opinion and therefore I am implicating that it is not credible. The film is loved by the masses -- which is also a vast collection of opinions -- and that is all that matters.

Originally Posted by Dark Knight

Once again to the general movie going public, (not the fanboys/girls who were spoiled) the reveal was just fine.

But how are you so sure of that? It's very easy to find many sources that cite it as a bad twist;

http://whatculture.com/film/4-best-a...2-movies.php/9

http://thewriterisin.wordpress.com/2...cessary-twist/

What makes you so certain most people in the general public didn't feel the same way about it?

The relationship didn't need heavy weight to it.

Bruce was supposed to care about Miranda. "Keep her close. He'll come for her". So it very much needed to have weight to it.

Tate was hitting up Bruce when he was vulnerable and they had sex, how much weight did you need in a 2 hour 45 minute film about a side love interest for Bruce Wayne.

I'm well aware of Talia's motives. The thing is she was not a side love interest, she was the love interest until the end. Not Selina ("Risking everything to save your stuck up girlfriend").

Most of my family and friends who I spoke with, who knew nothing about Tate/Talia, thought Tate was going to wind up being tragically killed by Bane and none thought she was the child of Ra's Al Ghul.

Are you really going to go down the "My friends and family thought this and that" route?

I could tell you the total opposite and it would have as much weight.

Remember, these films are not just for the spoiled fanboys/fangirls.

I know. I'm not talking about it from a fan perspective. I'm talking about how the movie presented her in the movie.

Originally Posted by Dark Knight

^Exactly! Quoted for truth!

His comment obviously flew over your head, but he's not serious. He's actually mocking you personally because that is your typical response defense for the movie's flaws. Quoting popularity statistics; http://forums.superherohype.com/show...9&postcount=91

It's always your crutch and not a very good one. Take a look at Avatar and Titanic for example. Both very positively reviewed, loved by the general public, made a fortune each. Are you going to sit there and try and say those movies didn't have bad plot issues either just because they're popular?

[psylockolussus]

I prefer SkyFall!

[Brain Damage]

Originally Posted by The Joker

But how are you so sure of that? It's very easy to find many sources that cite it as a bad twist;

http://whatculture.com/film/4-best-a...2-movies.php/9

http://thewriterisin.wordpress.com/2...cessary-twist/

What makes you so certain most people in the general public didn't feel the same way about it?



Bruce was supposed to care about Miranda. "Keep her close. He'll come for her". So it very much needed to have weight to it.



I'm well aware of Talia's motives. The thing is she was not a side love interest, she was the love interest until the end. Not Selina ("Risking everything to save your stuck up girlfriend").



Are you really going to go down the "My friends and family thought this and that" route?

I could tell you the total opposite and it would have as much weight.



I know. I'm not talking about it from a fan perspective. I'm talking about how the movie presented her in the movie.



His comment obviously flew over your head, but he's not serious. He's actually mocking you personally because that is your typical response defense for the movie's flaws. Quoting popularity statistics; http://forums.superherohype.com/show...9&postcount=91

It's always your crutch and not a very good one. Take a look at Avatar and Titanic for example. Both very positively reviewed, loved by the general public, made a fortune each. Are you going to sit there and try and say those movies didn't have bad plot issues either just because they're popular?

I was going to respond to a lot of these points, but you pretty much said it all

[Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by The Joker

It's always your crutch and not a very good one. Take a look at Avatar and Titanic for example. Both very positively reviewed, loved by the general public, made a fortune each. Are you going to sit there and try and say those movies didn't have bad plot issues either just because they're popular?

I have a crutch, just like you have yours right? Goes both ways brotha.

[Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by The Joker

But how are you so sure of that? It's very easy to find many sources that cite it as a bad twist;

http://whatculture.com/film/4-best-a...2-movies.php/9

http://thewriterisin.wordpress.com/2...cessary-twist/

What makes you so certain most people in the general public didn't feel the same way about it?



Bruce was supposed to care about Miranda. "Keep her close. He'll come for her". So it very much needed to have weight to it.



I'm well aware of Talia's motives. The thing is she was not a side love interest, she was the love interest until the end. Not Selina ("Risking everything to save your stuck up girlfriend").



Are you really going to go down the "My friends and family thought this and that" route?

I could tell you the total opposite and it would have as much weight.



I know. I'm not talking about it from a fan perspective. I'm talking about how the movie presented her in the movie.



His comment obviously flew over your head, but he's not serious. He's actually mocking you personally because that is your typical response defense for the movie's flaws. Quoting popularity statistics; http://forums.superherohype.com/show...9&postcount=91

It's always your crutch and not a very good one. Take a look at Avatar and Titanic for example. Both very positively reviewed, loved by the general public, made a fortune each. Are you going to sit there and try and say those movies didn't have bad plot issues either just because they're popular?

You keep trying to convince yourself and others that the film wasn't good.

Facts are facts. The film was universally positively reviewed overall by critics and the general movie going public loved it and so did a majority of fanboys/fangirls.

If the Colorado tragedy didn't occur and if the film was post converted and released in a 3D option format. The domestic box office total would have been about 525-550 million instead of 450 million.

Stop whining like a teenager and crying like a baby please, just because you didn't get the Bat film YOU personally wanted to see.

[Dark Knight]

[QUOTE=The Joker;24610129]



But how are you so sure of that? It's very easy to find many sources that cite it as a bad twist;

http://whatculture.com/film/4-best-a...2-movies.php/9

http://thewriterisin.wordpress.com/2...cessary-twist/





^^
And these "sources/websites" somehow have some sort of importance?

[Motown Marvel]

they were both messy films.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

I was going to respond to a lot of these points, but you pretty much said it all

Thank you

Originally Posted by Dark Knight

I have a crutch, just like you have yours right? Goes both ways brotha.

No, I don't. I don't use the same argument every time. I don't use popularity or box office as some kind of weapon for the short comings of the movie, as though flawed movies have never made lots of money and done well critically before.

Originally Posted by Dark Knight

You keep trying to convince yourself and others that the film wasn't good.

Two things;

1. Your ignorance in saying I'm trying to convince myself of something is astounding. Who the heck are you to tell me what I really think?

2. Why would I trying to be convince anyone of anything, let alone of something I don't even believe myself since I have been openly vocal in saying I do think the movie is good, and can dig up a plethora of posts to show it.

Facts are facts. The film was universally positively reviewed overall by critics and the general movie going public loved it and so did a majority of fanboys/fangirls.

Universally positively reviewed? That's a joke right? Do I really need to list the dozens of negative reviews it got, including the one that earned that critic the death threats from the fans on Rotten Tomatoes?

If the Colorado tragedy didn't occur and if the film was post converted and released in a 3D option format. The domestic box office total would have been about 525-550 million instead of 450 million.

So I guess The Avengers is better than TDKR since it made more money and was better reviewed critically. Or Avatar. Or Titanic. I mean that is your logic isn't it? It's all about the critical score and the money.

I guess that makes A LOT of movies better than Batman Begins, too.

Stop whining like a teenager and crying like a baby please, just because you didn't get the Bat film YOU personally wanted to see.

I am SO tempted to report you for that. Sick to death of trolls like you and their petty name calling because they are so thin skinned they practically foam at the mouth in anger when this movie gets criticized.

Can you not disagree with someone without making it personal? Is that too much for you?

Originally Posted by Dark Knight

^^
And these "sources/websites" somehow have some sort of importance?

They are just two samples of the proof you seek. You're going on and on about how everyone bar the "fanboys" (your traditional weak argument) loved the Talia twist.

It's insanely easy to find criticism of that so called twist across the net. It's not all from what you like to call fanboys. If so many people disliked it then who are you to definitively say it was so loved by everyone else, too? Have you got some kind of proof?

[JackWhite]

In all honesty, some fanboys hated TDKR and some loved TDKR. You really can't say it's just the fanboys that hated the film.

[Monicabbm]

I didn't expect to say this, I love Batman and I liked TDKR(good movie), but Skyfall is better.

[Anno_Domini]

So I saw Skyfall tonight.

What do I think of the film and which film do I find better to answer the thread's question?

I very much enjoyed Skyfall. My favorite Bond is Daniel Craig anyways, so I'm not shocked that I enjoyed Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace and now Skyfall, but, did I find it better than The Dark Knight Rises? No, I did not. I still say The Dark Knight Rises has been my favorite film of 2012, and I am saying this as someone who hasn't seen The Master, Argo or Lincoln yet and one of those three films may change my mind on my favorite movie of this year, but that doesn't take away anything from Skyfall. It was another amazing Bond flick and three in a row of Daniel Craig giving his all.

And also, I would like to point out that the question for the thread does raise a question that I now have...after seeing Skyfall, I would assume that Skyfall would be best compared to The Dark Knight while it's Quantum of Solace that should be compared to The Dark Knight Rises. Forget the third films being compared to one another, but QoS and TDKR could be better compared because in different ways, they are both the most ambitious films of their respective series. Quantum of Solace tried to do something different with James Bond that made the film very polarizing amongst Bond fans and TDKR became a very ambitious film itself that did the same exact thing...became a film very polarizing to Batfans.

[Polaris23]

This is getting intense! *sits back eating popcorn*

[Baramos]

I have no idea why we are comparing a James Bond movie and a Batman movie...I guess they both have gadgets?

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by Baramos

I have no idea why we are comparing a James Bond movie and a Batman movie...I guess they both have gadgets?

I think its because the director always stated how much he loved the series. He was probably influenced by it.

Then after Batman's reboot , Bond did the same thing. Then Sam Mendes itself said Dark Knight was a major influence. Skyfall has a lot of similarities to TDK.

Its like a cycle. Him being influenced by the legacy of James Bond. And because of the quality of his work , he himself ends up being an influence to that same series (in a different type of iteration).

Or maybe its because they are both action movies , that take itself seriously , and are very well shot.

I definitely think the fans of Nolan's Batman , will enjoy Skyfall.

[Street Vendor]

I saw SKYFALL today, and I loved it. More than TDKR? No, but it is a great movie. I had kept myself completely spoiler free for the movie(if only I had done the same for TDKR), and was amazed at how many storybeats it takes from TDK, and how similiar it felt to a Nolan Batman film. It was damn good on its own terms, no question about that.

[Brain Damage]

I saw Skyfall today in IMAX.
I really enjoyed it, though not quite as much as I thought I would. This might change once I see it a couple of more times, but as of now, Casino Royale is still the superior film in my opinion.

But is it better than TDKR?
Yes.

It's not nearly as ambitious of a film, but it succeeds in a lot of places TDKR doesn't.
One good example would be pacing.

Also, if the cinematographer doesn't get an Oscar nod, then we'll officially know that the Academy is blind.

[geetard]

Saw Skyfall today and yep, Casino Royale is still my fave "Craig Bond" flick.

[Anno_Domini]

I'd say...

1.) Casino Royale
2.) Quantum of Solace/Skyfall

[BaleISBatman4ev]

Skyfall is almost on par with Casino Royale but not quite... Great film... But i'll take TDKR by a mile. Skyfall is too reminiscent of what's come before (TDK)... albeit to great effect... TDKR is just hurt by not reaching the loftiness TDK did. Skyfall is following Quantum, hence the over enthusiasm.

[J.Howlett]

Originally Posted by BaleISBatman4ev

Skyfall is almost on par with Casino Royale but not quite... Great film... But i'll take TDKR by a mile. Skyfall is too reminiscent of what's come before (TDK)... albeit to great effect... TDKR is just hurt by not reaching the loftiness TDK did. Skyfall is following Quantum, hence the over enthusiasm.

Pretty much this. I love Quantum. I think over the years, Quantum will get a reevaluation. It's a necessary film. Skyfall's fantastic but you'd be either an idiot or blind to not see the influences of the Dark Knight all of the film. It's almost blatant.

I can honestly say that since '99, the Dark Knight Trilogy and this Bond trilogy of Royale, Quantum, and Skyfall are probably the best cinematic trilogies we've had in the contemporary era.

I'd put the Bourne Trilogy (screw Legacy) third....

[Bruce Malone]

TDKR by far. Skyfall wasn't bad but if you compare both films in terms of which one lived up to the huge hype better it's the dark knight rises.

I was hoping skyfall would be the best of the craig films but it's still CR. Also the villain in skfall was good but bane dominated the film in tdkr. I don't know if anyone can compare the emotional resonance of the two films? it wouldn't even be fair to skyfall.

[atomicbattery]

Just saw Skyfall. Was stunned by the obvious influence of the Nolan Batman films, even after reading a review on Huffington Post Friday that was all about it.

Most particularly the score by Thomas Newman. I love Thomas Newman. Shawshank Redemption, Finding Nemo, and the beautiful Little Women. But this was The Dark Knight Rises score, Bond-i-fied. The ostinato, driving percussion- some parts sounded as if they had been lifted whole-cloth from Rises.
I have to assume that this was what Mendes asked for- and kudos to him for praising and acknowledging the Nolan films as an influence. I loved the film, I'd put it in the mix with the first four Connery outings, but this was a Nolan Bond film, made by some great talents in their own right. It shows how Nolan has influenced and elevated the genre film (and yes, Bond is a superhero), and reinforces my belief that The Dark Knight Rises very much deserves a Best Picture nomination.

[BatLobsterRises]

Skyfall makes me wonder if a Nolan Bond film will ever happen. It might just be redundant at this point, since we already got a pretty blatantly Nolan-influenced version. Although I will say that I think one area where Skyfall kind of let me down was how dead simple the plot was. I totally get what they were going for with the "back to basics" theme of the film, and it was indeed a fresh of breath air after QoS. But I do think Nolan could come up with an exciting and complex espionage plot. He could be the first to tackle Bond as a writer/director (I think). I just think overall the Bond franchise doesn't really "need" Nolan right now, since Skyfall has nicely set up a template for future filmmakers to follow. And Nolan is more of a leader than a follower.

I could see it being like the situation with Spielberg doing a Star Wars film. Seems like it's meant to be, but just doesn't ever pan out for one reason or another.

[Happy Jack]

I too think it would be redundant for Nolan to do Bond anytime soon. His Batman was very Bondian in a lot of ways and with Skyfall we have a Bond movie that is inspired by Nolan's Batman. On paper it makes perfect sense, but I think the end result would be too derivative. I'd rather Nolan not get into another big franchise anyway.

[J.Howlett]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Skyfall makes me wonder if a Nolan Bond film will ever happen. It might just be redundant at this point, since we already got a pretty blatantly Nolan-influenced version. Although I will say that I think one area where Skyfall kind of let me down was how dead simple the plot was. I totally get what they were going for with the "back to basics" theme of the film, and it was indeed a fresh of breath air after QoS. But I do think Nolan could come up with an exciting and complex espionage plot. He could be the first to tackle Bond as a writer/director (I think). I just think overall the Bond franchise doesn't really "need" Nolan right now, since Skyfall has nicely set up a template for future filmmakers to follow. And Nolan is more of a leader than a follower.

I could see it being like the situation with Spielberg doing a Star Wars film. Seems like it's meant to be, but just doesn't ever pan out for one reason or another.

This was my first thought after seeing the film. Mendes essentially made the Bond film Nolan would've made. I don't see him doing one now because of it...which is a shame because I was really hoping to see a Craig Bond film directed by Nolan....