All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - Part 15

[Bruce_Begins]

Cavill = Cav-L= Kal EL.

[Project862006]

Originally Posted by Rust

"Do you base that on the whole 20 some seconds of footage we saw and 2 sentences we heard of him in MOS or do you base it on some of his previous performances? Just curious!"

I was refering to Tudors and TCLOD. Havent seen Immortals, but I dont reckon I'll find much new from Cavill in that.


"I think it's apples and oranges really. Clark Kent and Superman are not the same as Peter Parker/Spider-Man. I agree that Cavill needs to excel in his role but I don't think the emotional aspect will be the same as what Garfield had to do. And I honestly think Garfield tends to get a bit overrated. He's not that good of an actor and I personally didn't really like his performance in TASM. Just came off like a snotty teenager with an attitude problem to me. A bit douchery and not very convincing in a lot of scenes. But that's just me.

Speaking of Cavill, I went through the trouble of acquiring and viewing all of his performances in the past year as I was very unacquainted with him before and I wanted to check him out. I actually just finished with The Tudors about a week ago. I'll say this, he's not a great actor by any stretch of the imagination, but what I saw in him (particularly through the 4 seasons of The Tudors) was all the qualities needed for an actor to portray a great Superman. Now that doesn't mean that he will but it's there.

What Im talking about is presence, charm and to a slightly lesser extent charisma. Cavill has those 3 qualities and he has the ability to portray it believably in front of the camera. I always felt he was the best in two situations, one where he had to portray a stoic, authoritative figure - he has a strong and commanding presence and two, when the role required him to be charming. He just has this natural charm, really the same thing that Reeve had, the smile the mannerisms and with it charisma. Particularly in the romantic scenes or when he is being a bit seductive, he always displays a good dose of charisma. And I think that's what important for Superman himself. Cavill is also good with portraying intensity and good in action scenes. So as Superman, he can have a slight edge to him and display intensity in a battle, then display kindness and charm as he saves a child and finally he can exhume the presence of a great hero as he addresses the public/media, whatever. Just an example.


As for Clark Kent, well, I think he can handle a mild mannered reporter. I've seen Cavill in situations where he appears like a really normal guy, almost one you wouldn't notice and he seems pretty private and calm in general as a person. Quite a contrast to certain situations, such as the red carpet for Immortals premiere, where he carries himself with confidence and swagger and really appears charismatic.

I did notice a lot of negatives with him of course. I don't want to write too much about his acting (maybe in the Cavill topic) but he is really prone to overacting, especially in scenes where strong emotion is required. Fear, sadness, anger. He also breaks character often and becomes visibly self conscious and start to lose control of his expression, doing annoying things like biting his upper lip (he does that in quite a few different roles, it's a natural human reaction to when we think we are in the center of attention in a crowd, for example). He is also inconsistent with his line delivery. In one moment in The Tudors, I was genuinely impressed by his delivery and acting but then in the next scene I was genuinely WTF?? when his delivery fell flat and didn't carry the emotional resonance that it should. And yes, he can be stiff and wooden as well, although far far less as the likes of Tom Welling for example.

But he is also talented. As said, he can emote, he does have good line delivery and he's shown to be a good TV actor and an average-solid movie actor but most importantly he has the 3 qualities I mentioned previously and enough acting talent to believably translate to the screen. You don't need to be an Oscar caliber actor to be a great Superman. I think Cavill is pretty much on par with Reeve based on their performances (I've seen most from Reeve) and definitely a better actor than some of the guys preceding him in the role.

I also think he can improve, but im not sure if he'll even want to. Perhaps he'll just let his career peak as Superman. Many actors work on the craft, have classes even go to schools and many of them (today considered great actors) didn't peak or really shine until in their late 30's. I'd love to see what Cavill would be like under a really great director. Sadly, Snyder isn't it, in terms of directing actors. Let's just say, I don't think Snyder will direct anyone to an Oscar anytime soon.

And that's another thing. Did Snyder recognize those qualities in Cavill and direct him accordingly? Does the script do justice to the character? It remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen if Cavill will rub off a bit from his supporting cast. When people are surrounded by their betters, be it in film, sports, music it can cause them to up their own level considerably. The biggest indicator of what Cavill is made of, will be in his scenes with Shannon. Shannon says he has a lot of scenes with Cavill. If Cavill manages to survive those without getting completely chewed up, that'll be a feat in itself, as Shannon is a an incredibly powerful actor who always makes the lesser ones around him look like set furniture.

So to conclude this long ass post that nobody will read, LOL, Cavill has the look, he paid his dues in the gym and got the physique, he did the research and I believe he has the talent and the qualities and the rest is up to Snyder and the script itself. I think the potential is there for Cavill to shine and really leave a mark on the role. And as others have mentioned, he better. The franchise is ridding on him more than on anyone else really. If he doesn't win the public over and make them want more of his Superman, well, that'll be a failure.

Sure, Superman and Clark Kent the reporter are relatively easy to portray, but this movie looks like it'll deal heavily with Clark before becoming the two aforementioned characters, the so-called Smallville-Clark, which I guess is the one character I'm focused on. The young man raised by the Kents. He's the one who requires a somewhat wide range of emotion since he's the first REAL character. Perhaps we should call him Kal-El instead, since he's both Smallville-Clark and what will become Superman.

But anyways, the grown up Smallville-Clark is the one who'll introduce us to this version of Superman and the one who has to convince me of his emotions, thoughts and actions. Cavill has to be believable to convey those aspects.

WTF is this does snyder need to? only 2 super hero directors have directed oscar winning performances and that is singer and nolan

all i know is snyder directed gerard butler to a great performance as king Leonidas

his entire watchmen cast gave great performances aswell

snyder knows how to direct actors probably his most underrated trait

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

Cavill = Cav-L= Kal EL.

Good one. Kav-El

[HighFivingMF]

In 10-20 years there will be character named Kav-El in the comics. Bet on it.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Project862006

WTF is this does snyder need to? only 2 super hero directors have directed oscar winning performances and that is singer and nolan

all i know is snyder directed gerard butler to a great performance as king Leonidas

his entire watchmen cast gave great performances aswell

snyder knows how to direct actors probably his most underrated trait

I was quoting another boardmember.
But yeah, while Snyder may not be the most solid actors-director I do have enough confidence in him for something like this. And furthermore the script and the cast have potential.

[superhero#1]

I think potential is a dumb word when you talking about a cast that have Laurence Fishburne, Russell Crowe,Christopher Meloni,Michael Shannon,Amy Adams,Kevin Costner, Diane Lane,Harry Lennix,Henry Cavill,Antje Traue,Ayelet Zurer...Who can you pick on in that cast?Henry cavill the only one.Amy adams is a 3 times three-time Oscar nominee and she is good.As a matter of fact when you look at everybody involved in this movie, It's only 2 people you can pick on and that's Snyder/Henry.

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

In a way losing Robinov would be a good thing for WB.

I think sadly enough this is true. Something tells me that Nolan doesnt want to work directly with Robinov beyond MOS. Robinov stating Nolan would produce the future Batman movies and sometime later Nolan flat out denying it and removing himself from any future involvement in projects like JL might say something. Then there is also the whole thing about making MOS, a movie Nolan and Co are producing, distributed in 3D when Nolan is very much against it just puts the icing on the cake.

[G.Godfrey]

Originally Posted by Project862006

WTF is this

My opinion, lol.

Originally Posted by Project862006

does snyder need to? only 2 super hero directors have directed oscar winning performances and that is singer and nolan

I probably should have worded that a little better, I was speaking of Cavill in general terms as an actor and that's what I meant by saying I'd love to see what he'd do under a really great director. It's obvious that he's the type of actor who strongly relies on the direction and needs to be directed properly in order to actually be very good. Im confident Snyder is capable enough to direct him to a great Superman and im almost sure he will be a great Superman, but let's just say I'd be interesting to see him in a Fincher, Scorsese or even a Nolan film.

Originally Posted by Project862006

all i know is snyder directed gerard butler to a great performance as king Leonidas

Well it wasn't exactly a Maximus level performance but yeah, pretty good.

Originally Posted by Project862006

his entire watchmen cast gave great performances aswell

Uh, oh....Malin Akerman says Hi. Rorschach was the standout performance of that film.

Originally Posted by Project862006

snyder knows how to direct actors probably his most underrated trait

I disagree. But aside from Henry, there is nothing to worry about when it comes to MOS. The cast it powerful enough to do a good job even under poor direction (not saying Snyder did a poor job) and certain actors (Like Shannon) seem to be at least very good in everything they do.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by superhero#1

I think potential is a dumb word when you talking about a cast that have Laurence Fishburne, Russell Crowe,Christopher Meloni,Michael Shannon,Amy Adams,Kevin Costner, Diane Lane,Harry Lennix,Henry Cavill,Antje Traue,Ayelet Zurer...Who can you pick on in that cast?Henry cavill the only one.Amy adams is a 3 times three-time Oscar nominee and she is good.As a matter of fact when you look at everybody involved in this movie, It's only 2 people you can pick on and that's Snyder/Henry.

Potential might be a dumb word, but a solid cast is no guarantee whatsoever.

[ConnorKon-El]

I just watched the comic con footage again, and the shots of Cavill just floating around in the clouds, the cape fluttering in the wind, it looks so
This film, visually is going to be astounding.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by ConnorKon-El

I just watched the comic con footage again, and the shots of Cavill just floating around in the clouds, the cape fluttering in the wind, it looks so
This film, visually is going to be astounding.

Huh? I believe I missed that. What's the minute-mark?

[the last son]

Only thing I didn't like with the trailer was all of the closeups of Superman face.

[G.Godfrey]

Originally Posted by ConnorKon-El

I just watched the comic con footage again, and the shots of Cavill just floating around in the clouds, the cape fluttering in the wind, it looks so
This film, visually is going to be astounding.

It's snow, not clouds.

[G.Godfrey]

Originally Posted by the last son

Only thing I didn't like with the trailer was all of the closeups of Superman face.

[ConnorKon-El]

Originally Posted by Rust

Huh? I believe I missed that. What's the minute-mark?

I dunno, i can look.

[hopefuldreamer]

Dude, can't post that here.

[ConnorKon-El]

Originally Posted by hopefuldreamer

Dude, can't post that here.

Oops

[superhero#1]

Originally Posted by Rust

Potential might be a dumb word, but a solid cast is no guarantee whatsoever.

I'm just saying, If that cast can't do superman justice nobody will.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by ConnorKon-El

Oops

Yeah, sorry about that. My fault.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by superhero#1

I'm just saying, If that cast can't do superman justice nobody will.

What I meant was that the story comes first, regardless of who the cast is.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by Project862006

WTF is this does snyder need to? only 2 super hero directors have directed oscar winning performances and that is singer and nolan

Tim Burton(BATMAN, BATMAN RETURNS) - ED WOOD - Martin Landau best supporting actor.

Many others have directed movies where the actors have been nominated.

[ConnorKon-El]

Originally Posted by Rust

Yeah, sorry about that. My fault.

No Problemo

[I SEE SPIDEY]

People worrying about Cavill's performance without seeing a clip of the him in the film is ridiculous.

Hemsworth looked awful in the Thor trailer and in the actual film? He's one of the best things about that lame ass movie.

And people were praising Sam Worthington's performance sight unseen in Terminator Salvation and he was as painfully mediocre as the film itself.

I'm going to wait until reviews clips and ultimately until I see Cavill as Supes before praising or bashing his performance.

[superhero#1]

Originally Posted by Rust

What I meant was that the story comes first, regardless of who the cast is.

I Agree I was just saying that in the zod section.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Originally Posted by i see spidey

i'm going to wait until reviews clips and ultimately until i see cavill as supes before praising or bashing his performance.

Common sense!?!?!?!?