Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

[rogue_agent]

Expectations... lowered? My expectations are through the roof oh no don't wanna lower them I hope this movie is good as I expect

[herolee10]

[MagnarTheGreat]

She's scheduled to be on Craig Ferguson today (11/20) and on Chelsea Lately on the 26th.

One of those people in the THR cover with Marion is her co-star, Anne Hathaway--and two other women who were auditioned as the backup plan for Miranda/Talia--Naomi Watts and Rachel Weisz.

[herolee10]

You guys should see the latest "collegehumor" take on the Batman series; it involves the scene where Talia revealed her identity and does bring up a few good issues.lol

I'd post the link here but there is some language in that video that wouldn't be allowed to be posted here.

[Fudgie]

I saw it. Was damn funny. The college humor ones for Rises have been aces.

[batfreakforever]

When I hear people say there was a lack of romance between talia and bruce. They have a few scenes then they do it. People dont by that they just do it. I thought that bruce just lost everything, alfred, house, money etc then he goes to an empty home where he finds a hot woman in the rain goes inside, power goes off. They both embrace, we all know what she is up to but maybe he just wants the touch of a woman again and someone to hold. Maybe she is the first woman to embrace him like that in 8years. Dont know, just never seemed wrong. Maybe she is the other release he needed. Im not trying to be rude if it sounds that way.

[Anno_Domini]

A guy doesn't just go at it with a "hot woman" after he loses everything.

[Cunning Stunts]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

A guy doesn't just go at it with a "hot woman" after he loses everything.

Lolwut?

[The Joker]

He means Bruce hopping into bed with Miranda at the drop of a hat just because he lost his money doesn't make a believable romance.

[shauner111]

Just because he slept with her doesn't mean it's a romance. Why does it have to be a romance? That wasn't the point of the Talia/Bruce relationship in Rises.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by shauner111

Just because he slept with her doesn't mean it's a romance. Why does it have to be a romance?

"You going to start a war to save your stuck up girlfriend"

"Keep her close. He'll come for her"

Miranda was supposed to be the love interest.

That wasn't the point of the Talia/Bruce relationship in Rises.

In terms of execution they succeeded there. Unintentionally.

[BatLobsterRises]

Talia seduced Bruce at a moment of weakness. It all screamed noir femme fatale way more than "Hollywood romance".

That College Humor video was friggin' hilarious though

[Visceral]

He doesn't sleep with Talia until after he is told the truth about Rachel.

Its possible he has been sequestering feelings for Talia for sometime because of how he feels it might betray Rachel.

[Visceral]

also its never stated that Talia didn't have true feelings for Bruce (the true heir of Ra's), only that she needed to complete her fathers work, she would die in the blast as well. This is true to the comic Talia as well.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Visceral

He doesn't sleep with Talia until after he is told the truth about Rachel.

Its possible he has been sequestering feelings for Talia for sometime because of how he feels it might betray Rachel.

Considering he only met Tate for about a minute like day or two before, and that was briefly at a charity event, I hardly think he's been sitting on any feelings for her. He barely gives her a second thought until he loses his company and worries about Daggett getting his hands on the weapons division and the reactor.

Talia caught Bruce at a vulnerable moment. Picking up Rachel's photo and asking who she was, and then asking where Alfred was.

There was nothing natural or real about their love scene. No chemistry. No spark. All very sterile.

Originally Posted by Visceral

also its never stated that Talia didn't have true feelings for Bruce (the true heir of Ra's), only that she needed to complete her fathers work, she would die in the blast as well. This is true to the comic Talia as well.

Comic book Talia is conflicted between her feelings for Bruce and her loyalty to her father. Several times Talia has betrayed her father for Bruce in the comics.

Not once in Rises is this touched upon. Talia clearly states she came to Gotham to take revenge on Bruce, the man who she thinks killed her father, and to complete her father's work.

[BatLobsterRises]

Wait, do we know for sure that Bruce and Miranda have never met before the charity ball? If he was actively a part of taking the energy project during the first 5 years of the time gap and only became a recluse for the last 3, wouldn't he have at least met Miranda before at meetings and such? I mean she's on the board of W.E. I really thought the implication was that they had casually known one another, but obviously Bruce hadn't seen her in at least 3 years.

Originally Posted by The Joker

Talia clearly states she came to Gotham to take revenge on Bruce, the man who she thinks killed her father, and to complete her father's work.

On the contrary, Talia quite clearly states that vengeance "is merely a reward for her patience". She looks at that as the cherry on top.

Not saying she had any real feelings for Bruce though. If that were the case she wouldn't have told Bane she wanted him to feel the fire of 12 million souls he failed. She could have been physically attracted to him while hating his guts though.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Considering he only met Tate for about a minute like day or two before, and that was briefly at a charity event, I hardly think he's been sitting on any feelings for her. He barely gives her a second thought until he loses his company and worries about Daggett getting his hands on the weapons division and the reactor.

Talia caught Bruce at a vulnerable moment. Picking up Rachel's photo and asking who she was, and then asking where Alfred was.

There was nothing natural or real about their love scene. No chemistry. No spark. All very sterile.



Comic book Talia is conflicted between her feelings for Bruce and her loyalty to her father. Several times Talia has betrayed her father for Bruce in the comics.

Not once in Rises is this touched upon. Talia clearly states she came to Gotham to take revenge on Bruce, the man who she thinks killed her father, and to complete her father's work.

The Clean Energy project was a joint venture, she refers to it as Our Clean Energy Project, he had met Talia before. And I would say there was a complete lack of a love scene as that was not really the focus of the film. These films never really focused on the love between Rachel and Bruce, we only knew that he cared about her.

I would also like to point out that catwoman only kisses him as he is about to die, but that love story really isn't the focus of the film either.

And yes the film never touches upon the conflicted Talia, except that making love to bruce wasn't necessary for the betrayal. It's never ruled out like people are saying.

maybe the only reason the love story falls flat is because we who have knowledge of her comic counterpart expected a huge love story, rather than a more intimate study of Bruce's Journey and how Ra's has affected it.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

On the contrary, Talia quite clearly states that vengeance "is merely a reward for her patience". She looks at that as the cherry on top.

That's true. I'd forgotten about that line.

What a cold fish she is.

Originally Posted by Visceral

The Clean Energy project was a joint venture, she refers to it as Our Clean Energy Project, he had met Talia before.

Our clean energy project means it's a Wayne Enterprises venture, most likely handled by Lucius, like all of the main W.E. business. It doesn't mean he has met her before. You trying to tell me she has been hanging around Gotham for three years waiting for an energy project Bruce moth balled years ago?

And I would say there was a complete lack of a love scene as that was not really the focus of the film. These films never really focused on the love between Rachel and Bruce, we only knew that he cared about her.

That was the case with Batman Begins since it was never revealed until the end of Begins that there was any romantic feelings between Bruce and Rachel. They behave like friends up until that point. But it was quite present in TDK.

I would also like to point out that catwoman only kisses him as he is about to die, but that love story really isn't the focus of the film either.

If you want to be technical she also kissed him at the charity ball, too.

And yes the film never touches upon the conflicted Talia, except that making love to bruce wasn't necessary for the betrayal. It's never ruled out like people are saying.

Saying it's never ruled out is as redundant as saying it's never ruled out that Bane and Talia never had sex before either. The movie never shows it or even hints at it any more than it does that Talia has any feelings for Bruce.

She is cold and menacing towards him when she reveals who she really is. Looking at that scene by itself you would never know there was anything romantic between them before.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Our clean energy project means it's a Wayne Enterprises venture, most likely handled by Lucius, like all of the main W.E. business. It doesn't mean he has met her before. You trying to tell me she has been hanging around Gotham for three years waiting for an energy project Bruce moth balled years ago?

Wayne the only one who knows where the reactor is kept, its he who moth balled it. And kept it from Talia, which is why she had Bane capture Dr. Pavel. He has met her before. Both Fox and Alfred have been trying to set them up, but Bruce hasn't let go of his grief, which is another reason why Alfred tells him the truth about Rachel, he wants Bruce to have a wife.

That was the case with Batman Begins since it was never revealed until the end of Begins that there was any romantic feelings between Bruce and Rachel. They behave like friends up until that point. But it was quite present in TDK.

My point is that the love story isn't the central conflict of TDK, its barely a subplot to all the other conflicts going on in that film.

If you want to be technical she also kissed him at the charity ball, too.

My point again is that Bruce's conflict with this character highlights more than just romance.

Saying it's never ruled out is as redundant as saying it's never ruled out that Bane and Talia never had sex before either. The movie never shows it or even hints at it any more than it does that Talia has any feelings for Bruce.

Exactly, nothing that Nolan shows us takes away from what she was in the comics though. Each character holds true to their comic counterpart, even if it doesn't take center stage.

She is cold and menacing towards him when she reveals who she really is. Looking at that scene by itself you would never know there was anything romantic between them before.

You got all that from a look?

Ra's looked at Bruce pretty menacingly, at the end of Begins, still he felt Bruce was his best student.

[Infinity9999x]

Honestly, while I love Marion, her character really wasn't needed. Selina could have done everything Miranda did. Selina Kyle poses as a wealthy industrialist, seduces Wayne, while secretly working for the League. However, the difference is that Selina actually falls in love with Bruce during this, and she ends up helping him by the end. It would have streamlined the story, and given more time to the Selina, something I wanted.

[The Guard]

Exactly, nothing that Nolan shows us takes away from what she was in the comics though. Each character holds true to their comic counterpart, even if it doesn't take center stage.

Except that in the comics...she actually loved him.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Visceral

Wayne the only one who knows where the reactor is kept, its he who moth balled it.

How do you know Wayne is the only one who know where it's kept? Lucius knew where it was, too.

And kept it from Talia, which is why she had Bane capture Dr. Pavel. He has met her before.

No, Bane had to capture Pavel because he was a Scientist with the know how to activate and disarm a bomb like that.

Both Fox and Alfred have been trying to set them up, but Bruce hasn't let go of his grief, which is another reason why Alfred tells him the truth about Rachel, he wants Bruce to have a wife.

They were both trying to set them up because Bruce had spent years alone. As Alfred said he would set him up with a Chimpanzee at this point if it meant getting Bruce back to the world.

Trying to get him to hook up with Tate was what that was about. Didn't mean they had met before.

My point is that the love story isn't the central conflict of TDK, its barely a subplot to all the other conflicts going on in that film.

My point again is that Bruce's conflict with this character highlights more than just romance.

Central focus or not, both were more elaborated on than the Talia one.

Exactly, nothing that Nolan shows us takes away from what she was in the comics though. Each character holds true to their comic counterpart, even if it doesn't take center stage.

But we're not talking about the comics. You were saying just because Nolan didn't show it doesn't mean it's ruled out. In this case any feelings Talia had for Bruce would have been evident. Nolan is all about characters showing their feelings.

You got all that from a look?

Ra's looked at Bruce pretty menacingly, at the end of Begins, still he felt Bruce was his best student.

What look are you talking about? I'm talking about her entire scene when she's revealed as Talia. She is cold, menacing, cruel, and doesn't show one glimpse of a possibility that she has any feelings for Bruce.

Ra's saying Bruce was his best student, the way he says it there is a look of regret in his face and voice that he is not standing by his side.

You don't get anything like that with Talia. The only emotion she shows towards someone else is towards Bane.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by The Joker

How do you know Wayne is the only one who know where it's kept? Lucius knew where it was, too.

Bruce was the one that decided to hide it. Lucius acknowledges it was Wayne's project in the scene where Bruce accuses him of losing all the money. Later in the film Talia explains that everything was going well with the project until a russian scientist wrote papers that stated the reactor could be weapon-ized, after that bruce secluded into hiding and mothballed the project. This is on page 70 of the script. "I thought you might like to see what your investment built."

No, Bane had to capture Pavel because he was a Scientist with the know how to activate and disarm a bomb like that.

Yeah, thats why Bruce had the Clean Energy Project Mothballed.

Bane attacks the stock market to force Wayne to hand the project over to Talia.

They were both trying to set them up because Bruce had spent years alone. As Alfred said he would set him up with a Chimpanzee at this point if it meant getting Bruce back to the world. Trying to get him to hook up with Tate was what that was about. Didn't mean they had met before.

Doesn't mean they hadn't, and there is dialogue to showing that they had met and worked together on a fusion reactor clean energy project.

Central focus or not, both were more elaborated on than the Talia one.

Opinion, even so it doesn't detract from the film. My statement is that the film does exactly what it intends to with each character while never taking away from the true spirit of the character. The film never places one romance over the other because the trilogy is about a son's interactions with his father figures.

But we're not talking about the comics. You were saying just because Nolan didn't show it doesn't mean it's ruled out. In this case any feelings Talia had for Bruce would have been evident. Nolan is all about characters showing their feelings.

Right, except the relationship that Bruce had with Ra's is far more important. Talia who now controls everything that wayne has

What look are you talking about? I'm talking about her entire scene when she's revealed as Talia. She is cold, menacing, cruel, and doesn't show one glimpse of a possibility that she has any feelings for Bruce.

Ra's saying Bruce was his best student, the way he says it there is a look of regret in his face and voice that he is not standing by his side.

You don't get anything like that with Talia. The only emotion she shows towards someone else is towards Bane.

The betrayal is supposed to mirror the betrayal in Begins. I would agree that she is upset that she lost her father. Ra's was upset that his house was burnt down. They both wanted to save the world, they only disagreed on how to save it.

The same is happening here. Talia respects that Wayne has put half of his fortune into saving the world with his clean energy project. However unlike him, she believes that saving the world is synonymous with destroying it. That's the symbolism of the reactor, it being weapon-ized doesn't take away it's world saving ability for her.

Her malicious look only states that she believes her father deserves justice, much like Bruce thought about his, it doesn't prove her feelings were completely apathetic toward Bruce. She is going to die in the same ball of fire he is after all.

[Fudgie]

Yup never got any impression Bruce and Tate met until that charity ball. They were like total strangers.

The so called romance was naff; http://whatculture.com/film/the-dark...avoided.php/14

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Yup never got any impression Bruce and Tate met until that charity ball. They were like total strangers.

The so called romance was naff; http://whatculture.com/film/the-dark...avoided.php/14

Its a little hard to believe she would invest in his billion dollar project without meeting him.

But believe whatever you want even if it is in the script.