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Old 11-12-2012, 05:25 PM   #26
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen View Post
The entire "bomb" climax in TDKR. Still not buying into the "driving a bomb around the city for months" thing. Seemed stupid and retroactive. It's like they needed some excuse to keep Gotham alive while Bruce was recovering in the pit.

No 8 year break (maybe one or two years)
More creative villain after TDK, i.e. not use the League of Shadows AGAIN.
No Talia. She was wasted and done poorly.
Different use of Scarecrow in TDKR. Either don't use him at all or make him important. The court scene was a waste for one of my favorite and most creative Batman villains.
Remove the Tumbler chase scene in BB. Driving on rooftops? Really???

I know there are more I can't think of right off.
Flying. Flying on rooftops.


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Old 11-12-2012, 07:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

No John Blake

No retire from being Batman not even for a day.

Keep Two-Face alive.

Kill Off Gordon.

Presented Two-Face even if it wasn't Aaron as Two Face in begins if only for a scene.

Have Batman use more gadgets

Recast Joker and continue with the Joker and Bane in a different script from TDKR. Go with one featuring Joker and continue instead of not mentioning him once.

No retiring at the end.

Write Selina better, could not understand that love story at all.

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Old 11-12-2012, 07:19 PM   #28
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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No John Blake

No retire from being Batman not even for a day.

Keep Two-Face alive.

Kill Off Gordon.

Presented Two-Face even if it wasn't Aaron as Two Face in begins if only for a scene.

Have Batman use more gadgets

Recast Joker and continue with the Joker and Bane in a different script from TDKR. Go with one featuring Joker and continue instead of not mentioning him once.

No retiring at the end.

Write Selina better, could not understand that love story at all.
I can tell how much you dislike the retiring idea since you mentioned it twice

And regarding something else...Selina Kyle is possibly the best love interest Nolan has created in any of his films, imo; her story was one of the finest things in TDKR.

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Old 11-12-2012, 07:31 PM   #29
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Flying. Flying on rooftops.

hahaha thanks for clarifying for me and making it EVEN STUPIDER!


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Old 11-12-2012, 07:43 PM   #30
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

That's your opinion I didn't see why either would want each other other than they both want new starts. So, what, a lot of people do. Just watching that movie just made me think how stupid it is for Batman to like catwoman period. You can't break the law and kill people unless Batman wants to do you.

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Old 11-12-2012, 07:50 PM   #31
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That's your opinion I didn't see why either would want each other other than they both want new starts. So, what, a lot of people do. Just watching that movie just made me think how stupid it is for Batman to like catwoman period. You can't break the law and kill people unless Batman wants to do you.
Batman helped in her development in not killing people and when she did, it was to save Batman's life. And breaking the law? Batman has done quite enough of that himself.

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Old 11-13-2012, 03:14 AM   #32
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Film 3. Make Bane a villain with his own plan for Gotham, remove the unneeded LoS link to film one, have Gotham stand on its feet at the end.

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:41 AM   #33
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by Steyin View Post
-Full on Scarecrow
-No 8 year break
-Emergence of freaks after Joker, not a peaceful period
-Full on batcave
-Use Bullock and Montoya instead of Stephens and Ramirez
-No John Blake, at least not as a successor
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen View Post
The entire "bomb" climax in TDKR. Still not buying into the "driving a bomb around the city for months" thing. Seemed stupid and retroactive. It's like they needed some excuse to keep Gotham alive while Bruce was recovering in the pit.

No 8 year break (maybe one or two years)
More creative villain after TDK, i.e. not use the League of Shadows AGAIN.
No Talia. She was wasted and done poorly.
Different use of Scarecrow in TDKR. Either don't use him at all or make him important. The court scene was a waste for one of my favorite and most creative Batman villains.
Remove the Tumbler chase scene in BB. Driving on rooftops? Really???

I know there are more I can't think of right off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc View Post
Film 3. Make Bane a villain with his own plan for Gotham, remove the unneeded LoS link to film one, have Gotham stand on its feet at the end.
These sound great to me

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Old 11-13-2012, 11:29 AM   #34
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Keep the 8 years after TDK; make it 6 years since Batman disappeared.

Bane was imprisoned in a warlord's pit just like the movie. He was sentenced without a trial.

Bane has been keeping up the the Dent Act since its proposal. He feared seeing the world put into the same sort of police state as he experienced as a child. He hires Selina Kyle, a well-known thief in the criminal underworld, to gather evidence against Harvey Dent.

Catwoman hits up the security archives of the buildings around the location where Two-Face held-up Gordon and his family. She also hits up the security archives of the bar where Two-Face killed that older cop.

Meanwhile Bane and his men head into the Gotham sewers. Its bad; lots of people who would've been paid working for the mob bosses are starving. Watching their children die. Bane gives them a speech and recruits them to his side.

Miranda Tate encourages Bruce to start up a charity for the disenfranchised; now that the mob is gone, white collar crime is the thing. Its hurting Gotham.

Since the Dent Act gave the cops the ability to work in a style similar to Batman, there's lots of frightened civilians. Bane arrives in Gotham in a similar style. Holds it hostage, again. The downtrodden ally with emerging powers in Bane's Gotham; their tasks are to keep the citizens from escaping. Some are afraid of Bane; they try working against him. Other groups of the homeless and disenfranchised try to stop them. They love Bane's plan and don't believe that he would really set off the nuke.

Batman returns; war; Batman appears to die.

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Old 11-13-2012, 12:08 PM   #35
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I don't get why people want Talia in earlier installments. Each film is supposed to be a self-contained story. Introducing a character in film 1 who has no pay off until film 3 seems rather pointless and burdensome for the earlier films to me.

Only three changes I would have made the whole series:

1) One actress plays Rachel. I don't really care if it was Holmes or Gyllenhall because while Maggie was better the role didn't require such a great actress and Holmes really only needed to die in TDK. But it would have added more weight to that sequence if it had been the same actress for two films.

2) Imply in TDKR that there have been unconfirmed sightings of Batman until 5-6 years ago when the Dent Act went into effect. Thus implying Batman had more adventures not working with the GCPD and there was a period of chaos and "freaks" post-Joker that we just didn't see.

3) I would have had the people of Gotham play a bigger role in TDKR. Perhaps more reactions to Bane's plan, the revelations about Dent and have Batman's bat galvanize the people to stand up to Bane and join the police in taking the city back. However, that is perhaps more populist than how Nolan views the character.

My three small changes. Still, a great trilogy and in terms of a cinematic representation of the character, it is definitive, in my opinion.

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Old 11-13-2012, 02:17 PM   #36
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

BB- Have Crane develop more into Scarecrow by the end of the film, instead of just having a sack mask. Have him battle Batman in some way instead of anticlimactically being tasered by Rachel.

TDK- Trim down the ferry sequences a bit (all those long pauses where people are deciding stuff tediously). Perhaps introduce Miranda Tate here if only in a few short scenes (board meeting etc.)

TDKR - John Blake was a misstep. He should be Dick Grayson or Terry McGuinness. Develop his story better or else trim it down because it kinda bogs down the movie and was a bit generic (he's an orphan cop... that's it). He was kinda bland and not the sort of person I could ever imagine becoming Batman.

Have Bane / the LOS take over the city but NOT intend to use the bomb until things look to be going south for them. That is, go more with the Tale of Two Cities idea instead of removing its impact by turning it into a drawn out five month time bomb.

The eight year gap / Bruce quitting makes no sense following Gordon's "watchful protector, dark knight" speech. Not what I expected at all.

Stuff I would have liked to see at some point: 1. A Batman / Catwoman rooftop chase. 2. Bruce at his parent's grave. 3. Harvey Bullock.

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Old 11-13-2012, 02:25 PM   #37
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
I don't get why people want Talia in earlier installments. Each film is supposed to be a self-contained story. Introducing a character in film 1 who has no pay off until film 3 seems rather pointless and burdensome for the earlier films to me.

Only three changes I would have made the whole series:

1) One actress plays Rachel. I don't really care if it was Holmes or Gyllenhall because while Maggie was better the role didn't require such a great actress and Holmes really only needed to die in TDK. But it would have added more weight to that sequence if it had been the same actress for two films.

2) Imply in TDKR that there have been unconfirmed sightings of Batman until 5-6 years ago when the Dent Act went into effect. Thus implying Batman had more adventures not working with the GCPD and there was a period of chaos and "freaks" post-Joker that we just didn't see.


3) I would have had the people of Gotham play a bigger role in TDKR. Perhaps more reactions to Bane's plan, the revelations about Dent and have Batman's bat galvanize the people to stand up to Bane and join the police in taking the city back. However, that is perhaps more populist than how Nolan views the character.

My three small changes. Still, a great trilogy and in terms of a cinematic representation of the character, it is definitive, in my opinion.
Yeah, I actually expected something like that to be mentioned.

I agree with your other points too. Beyond that, everything that happened in the films is pretty much what I wanted.

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Old 11-13-2012, 08:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

- More screen time for Scarecrow
- No so much fear talk in Begins
- No Katie Holmes
- No shaky camera fights
- No LOS in Rises
- No 8 year retirement for Batman
- No clean crime free Gotham because of some Dent Act
- More Gothamites reactions for TDKR like in Begins and TDK
- Bane being his own villain
- No John Blake

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:14 PM   #39
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator View Post
Keep the 8 years after TDK; make it 6 years since Batman disappeared.

Bane was imprisoned in a warlord's pit just like the movie. He was sentenced without a trial.

Bane has been keeping up the the Dent Act since its proposal. He feared seeing the world put into the same sort of police state as he experienced as a child. He hires Selina Kyle, a well-known thief in the criminal underworld, to gather evidence against Harvey Dent.

Catwoman hits up the security archives of the buildings around the location where Two-Face held-up Gordon and his family. She also hits up the security archives of the bar where Two-Face killed that older cop.

Meanwhile Bane and his men head into the Gotham sewers. Its bad; lots of people who would've been paid working for the mob bosses are starving. Watching their children die. Bane gives them a speech and recruits them to his side.

Miranda Tate encourages Bruce to start up a charity for the disenfranchised; now that the mob is gone, white collar crime is the thing. Its hurting Gotham.

Since the Dent Act gave the cops the ability to work in a style similar to Batman, there's lots of frightened civilians. Bane arrives in Gotham in a similar style. Holds it hostage, again. The downtrodden ally with emerging powers in Bane's Gotham; their tasks are to keep the citizens from escaping. Some are afraid of Bane; they try working against him. Other groups of the homeless and disenfranchised try to stop them. They love Bane's plan and don't believe that he would really set off the nuke.

Batman returns; war; Batman appears to die.
I actually kind of like this

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Old 11-15-2012, 11:32 PM   #40
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Yup cos I see no mention of the LOS in that lot.

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Old 11-16-2012, 12:38 AM   #41
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I just want to know if people realize Bane running with Ras Al Ghul, Talia & the LoS comes from the comics? It's not like Nolan just shoehorned it in to connect it to BB. Or perhaps he did, but there is a precedence for it.

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:41 AM   #42
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Yup but they did it much better, and they did it after Bane had established himself as a self made man and made a play for Gotham and broken Batman. Bane is this was a love sick puppy following Talia's wishes. He began and ended with the LOS.

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Old 11-16-2012, 09:46 AM   #43
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A lovesick puppy that didn't obey Talia's one order to him? Yah, that makes sense. Bane can be in love and still be his own man.

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Old 11-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #44
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I know a lot of people didn't want John Blake in the series, but as I've said in another thread, I respectfully disagree. In fact, I think he's the most important character outside of Bruce and Alfred. The entire point of the series was to show Batman was a symbol, not just a man. John Blake epitomizes that concept. I wish they hadn't called him Robin, that felt cheap. But Blake HAD to be in it, in my opinion.

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Old 11-16-2012, 12:44 PM   #45
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

for TDKR

Have the nuke be something else more comic-booky - like an earthquake machine that Babe has already destroyed a foreign country with or something. I didn't like having to imagine that radiation is drifting across the water in Gotham now. Something more easily safely destroyed in water.

Have Talia reveal some of her toughness and ruthlessness during her relationship with Bruce...so she wasn't a dull kind character while she was good. Something like, telling Bruce coldly that she believes it is better if people die as long as the environment is protected...something to show her roots and make her interesting to watch.

I thought it would have been cool if they had shoe-horned in a way for Blake to fight side by side with Batman in a costume, even just for one short scene, like "put this on" so he can be bulletproof for one short attack or something. And if they had some mention of him having an acrobat hobby, like showing him doing acrobatics in the gym to relax or something. Or he was in charge of the creative arts at the boys home and did acrobatics.

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Old 11-16-2012, 02:21 PM   #46
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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A lovesick puppy that didn't obey Talia's one order to him? Yah, that makes sense. Bane can be in love and still be his own man.
Bane was following a man who hated him and kicked him out of his gang. He must be an idiot for doing that or he's doing it to please someone else. Yup Talia.

Big whoop he didn't follow one order like minutes before he thought they were all gonna be blown up. It ain't like Talia would by any the wiser since they'd all be dead and all.

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Old 11-16-2012, 02:28 PM   #47
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Bane was following a man who hated him and kicked him out of his gang. He must be an idiot for doing that or he's doing it to please someone else. Yup Talia.

Big whoop he didn't follow one order like minutes before he thought they were all gonna be blown up. It ain't like Talia would by any the wiser since they'd all be dead and all.
Technically it's not the same League of Shadows that the man who kicked him out was running. They're playing with different rules and only trying to succeed what Ra's al Ghul didn't. Bane being amongst this new LoS and alongside Talia does not seem like he's a lovesick puppy just trying to follow her around.

And I bring up that one order because that's the only order Talia makes to Bane as far as the viewer is concerned. Anything else is thinking outside of what the film tells us.

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Old 11-16-2012, 02:51 PM   #48
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Technically it's not the same League of Shadows that the man who kicked him out was running. They're playing with different rules and only trying to succeed what Ra's al Ghul didn't. Bane being amongst this new LoS and alongside Talia does not seem like he's a lovesick puppy just trying to follow her around.

And I bring up that one order because that's the only order Talia makes to Bane as far as the viewer is concerned. Anything else is thinking outside of what the film tells us.
How do ya know they ain't the same LOS? Ra's in Begins said they've been around for hundreds of years following one concise philosophy. So every new LOS members follow them ideals. Bane didn't. See why Bane's plan was so crappy? It doesn't follow that.

Well if ya want to ignore the whole backstory of Bane being booted to the curb by Ra's and Talia being the daughter of Ra's who wants to honor her dad by completing his work, and Bane loving Talia and Talia actually giving him an order all tells ya that she was the boss lady. If Bane wasn't following her orders she would have found out. In this instance it don't matter since they were all gonna be ashes in minutes.

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Old 11-16-2012, 02:54 PM   #49
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How do ya know they ain't the same LOS? Ra's in Begins said they've been around for hundreds of years following one concise philosophy. So every new LOS members follow them ideals. Bane didn't. See why Bane's plan was so crappy? It doesn't follow that.

Well if ya want to ignore the whole backstory of Bane being booted to the curb by Ra's and Talia being the daughter of Ra's who wants to honor her dad by completing his work, and Bane loving Talia and Talia actually giving him an order all tells ya that she was the boss lady. If Bane wasn't following her orders she would have found out. In this instance it don't matter since they were all gonna be ashes in minutes.
The same ideals? Really? When were Ra's League ever so suicidal as they were in TDKR? That's the same to you?

If you want to take that whole backstory of meaning Bane was Talia's "slave" or "lovesick puppy" and just ordered him around, go right ahead, as we both know we will never change eachother's minds, lol, but none of that tells me Talia can just order Bane around with a single command or the snap of the fingers since she never did.

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Old 11-16-2012, 02:58 PM   #50
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The same ideals? Really? When were Ra's League ever so suicidal as they were in TDKR? That's the same to you?
Ra's in Begins: 'My fate lies with the rest of Gotham'

Ra's was on a suicide mission.

Quote:
If you want to take that whole backstory of meaning Bane was Talia's "slave" or "lovesick puppy" and just ordered him around, go right ahead, as we both know we will never change eachother's minds, lol, but none of that tells me Talia can just order Bane around with a single command or the snap of the fingers since she never did.
Talia's plan, Talia's personal vendetta cos it was her pappy who was killed. Now what kinda guy is willing to get his ass turned to ashes like that for a guy who hated him and booted him out, unless he is doing it all for the gal he loved.

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