TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

[Bruce Malone]

Honestly outside of shh TDKR is almost universally praised. I really enjoy Begins but i would rank TDKR ahead of it.

TDKR is considered one of the strongest finishes to a trilogy in movie history and the trilogy as a whole from beginning to end is considered quite strong. Begins is definitely a fanboy favorite but among the general public and critics i'd say TDKR is favored.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by The Chris

And honestly it's not like TDK is the one it would be competing against, which is why i don't put it in the argument consideration. It kind of reminds me of a few years ago where I leaving a showing of TDK and this one lady talked about how she didn't think heath ledger deserved to win for the joker because he didn't win it for brokeback mountain. I remember thinking "I don't think he'll be competing against himself is he?" Never really like that kind of argument.

And these boards confuse me so much sometimes. This wasn't a spider-man 3 situation. This isn't a trilogy where the first 2 get 80 and 90 percent ratings and general audience love them and then the third one comes out and gets a 60. I mean, the response for this one is better than BB's, but you wouldn't know it by coming here. I mean I went on imdb, home of some picky dudes to keep it mildly, and it's got an 8.8, only .2 lower than TDK and i think about .5 higher than BB. I talk to regular joes at my job when we had it and would ask them their opinions, and the majority thought of it very highly. We had it for 4 months, and I haven't seen another movie get as many standing ovations for as long a run as this did.

I think in the end a lot more people overall think this deserves accolades way more than the amount of people who don't, which is the big difference between TDKR and most of the movies that Anno mentioned. Like the movie I hate for example Extremely loud and incredibly close, rotten tomatoes (not the fort knox of ratings I know but still) has that movie at 47%. 47%!!!!!, yet that was a best picture nominee. TDKR is an 87. Yeah, I think it's deserving. Definitely. It's my wish that more genre pics get noms honestly. Last years group had no guts.

Well said.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

You'd think TDKR was so bad with all the crap it gets, when everything shows that it's at least better than Batman Begins(which many seems to deny even):

That's because most people don't judge a movie by what critics think. They have their own minds.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

That's because most people don't judge a movie by what critics think. They have their own minds.

And yet they're more in the right of slamming anyone who'd say TDKR isn't crap when it's definitely better than BB?

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

And yet they're more in the right of slamming anyone who'd say TDKR isn't crap when it's definitely better than BB?

They're more in the right for slamming TDKR and saying BB is better because they believe that than saying TDKR isn't crap and is better than BB just because the critics rate one higher than the other.

You want to think The Avengers is better than Rises cos the critics liked it more? Or Skyfall? Nah cos I know you think Rises is better no matter what the critics think.

[BatLobsterRises]

I think it's important to keep in mind that even though the fan reaction to TDK felt more unanimous, there were haters from the start. Websites created to compile all the so-called flaws and plot holes. http://www.thedarkknightsucks.com/

Yes, with TDKR the fanbase is more all over the place with their feelings, but I think we always knew this would be the case. Once we knew they were ending the Batman story with this film, it was a very clear possibility that this story was going to go in directions that some fans wouldn't be comfortable with. I wasn't really surprised at all with the divisive reactions to this film.

Granted, I understand many of the issues people have are with execution as well. I just think the whole 8 year gap thing really set a lot of people off on the wrong foot with this movie, I really do.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I think it's important to keep in mind that even though the fan reaction to TDK felt more unanimous, there were haters from the start. Websites created to compile all the so-called flaws and plot holes. http://www.thedarkknightsucks.com/

Every flick gets haters. No such thing as a movie without them. Thing is they are minorities with the great movies like TDK.

Not with Rises though. Rises caused a divide.

Yes, with TDKR the fanbase is more all over the place with their feelings, but I think we always knew this would be the case. Once we knew they were ending the Batman story with this film, it was a very clear possibility that this story was going to go in directions that some fans wouldn't be comfortable with. I wasn't really surprised at all with the divisive reactions to this film.

Granted, I understand many of the issues people have are with execution as well. I just think the whole 8 year gap thing really set a lot of people off on the wrong foot with this movie, I really do.

Nah, it had nothing to do with it being an ending. We knew it was gonna be a trilogy and an ending was coming. Batman retiring at the end is probably the least complained thing about the flick. It's the rest of the crap that makes up the movie that gets the aggro. And no critic rating is gonna change that.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

They're more in the right for slamming TDKR and saying BB is better because they believe that than saying TDKR isn't crap and is better than BB just because the critics rate one higher than the other.

You want to think The Avengers is better than Rises cos the critics liked it more? Or Skyfall? Nah cos I know you think Rises is better no matter what the critics think.

Kinda funny you saying this when you bring up reviews from bloggers and not solely going by what you believe that TDKR is crap, but I bring up what critics think or user ratings and it's silly because people have a mind of their own.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Kinda funny you saying this when you bring up reviews from bloggers and not solely going by what you believe that TDKR is crap, but I bring up what critics thing or user ratings and it's silly because people have a mind of their own.

Ehhh no I used bloggers certain opinions on something to re-enforce a point about something in the flick. Like the dumb contradiction about the LOS in Rises and how it didn't make sense to lots of people. A good plot point doesn't confuse so many people like that.

That's what I was using 'em for. You're using critics as a weapon against people who say Begins is better than Rises.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Ehhh no I used bloggers certain opinions on something to re-enforce a point about something in the flick. Like the dumb contradiction about the LOS in Rises and how it didn't make sense to lots of people. A good plot point doesn't confuse so many people like that.

That's what I was using 'em for. You're using critics as a weapon against people who say Begins is better than Rises.

I'm using critics as a weapon of saying TDKR isn't "crap" what people assume it to be. Nonetheless, some people don't perceive the same way you do with the LoS, only those bloggers.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I'm using critics as a weapon of saying TDKR isn't "crap" what people assume it to be.

That's your problem. You're using critics like their opinion is something anyone even gives a damn about. The dud Superman Returns is sitting pretty on 76% on RT and most Supes fans don't like it. Ya think the 11% higher rating Rises has makes it better than what a lot of people think it is?

Nah course not. That's why people make up their own minds and don't follow the critics.

Nonetheless, some people don't perceive the same way you do with the LoS, only those bloggers.

Heh ya have been doing selective reading if the blogger reviews are the only place you've read that.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Every flick gets haters. No such thing as a movie without them. Thing is they are minorities with the great movies like TDK.

Not with Rises though. Rises caused a divide.
.

Are we talking within the hardcore fanbase, or just general moviegoers? Because if we're just talking in general, average user rating on Yahoo, iTunes, Amazon, Rotten, etc. would show that the overwhelming majority thought pretty highly of the film.

NOTE: I am not saying that to invalidate your opinion. Obviously we all make up our own minds. I've loved plenty of movies that are hated overall.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

That's your problem. You're using critics like their opinion is something anyone even gives a damn about. The dud Superman Returns is sitting pretty on 76% on RT and most Supes fans don't like it. Ya think the 11% higher rating Rises has makes it better than what a lot of people think it is?

Nah course not. That's why people make up their own minds and don't follow the critics.

Hah, and that's your problem with posting the opinions of bloggers as well. Their opinions are as meaningless as critics.

Heh ya have been doing selective reading if the blogger reviews are the only place you've read that.

I could say the same when you believe only critics enjoyed TDKR.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Are we talking within the hardcore fanbase, or just general moviegoers? Because if we're just talking in general, average user rating on Yahoo, iTunes, Amazon, Rotten, etc. would show that the overwhelming majority thought pretty highly of the film.

Yup I'm talking the Batman fans. They all jizzed over Begins and Knight. Rises split the herd up.

NOTE: I am not saying that to invalidate your opinion. Obviously we all make up our own minds. I've loved plenty of movies that are hated overall.

Appreciate that.

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Hah, and that's your problem with posting the opinions of bloggers as well. Their opinions are as meaningless as critics.

Ehhh no cos I wasn't using the blogger opinions to validate or invalidate the overall opinion of a movie's quality like you are with the critics. I used their opinions to show how flawed certain elements of the movie were, to show there was plenty of people who were confused or thought something didn't make sense like the LOS crap.

I could say the same when you believe only critics enjoyed TDKR.

Heh be even funnier if you could find where I said that.

Good luck.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Ehhh no cos I wasn't using the blogger opinions to validate or invalidate the overall opinion of a movie's quality like you are with the critics. I used their opinions to show how flawed certain elements of the movie were, to show there was plenty of people who were confused or thought something didn't make sense like the LOS crap.

Lol, yah, and when I show that critics enjoyed TDKR you dismiss it just because people have their own opinions and would rather shove down some other opinions that most didn't feel?

Heh be even funnier if you could find where I said that.

Good luck.

When you make a thread trying to dismiss the fact that the majority actually enjoyed TDKR, that's all the proof I need.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Lol, yah, and when I show that critics enjoyed TDKR you dismiss it just because people have their own opinions and would rather shove down some other opinions that most didn't feel?

Anno Domini: "You'd think TDKR was so bad with all the crap it gets, when everything shows that it's at least better than Batman Begins(which many seems to deny even)"

According to you "everything" says Rises is better than Begins and many are denying it.

Heh funny.

When you make a thread trying to dismiss the fact that the majority actually enjoyed TDKR, that's all the proof I need.

Ehhh no I asked was it a letdown. Not that they didn't like it. Difference between disappointment and disliking something mon ami.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Anno Domini: "You'd think TDKR was so bad with all the crap it gets, when everything shows that it's at least better than Batman Begins(which many seems to deny even)"

According to you "everything" says Rises is better than Begins and many are denying it.

Heh funny.

Lol, I mean by everything I showed that indeed states TDKR is better than BB.

Not funny at all since what I showed, everything did say TDKR was better.

Ehhh no I asked was it a letdown. Not that they didn't like it. Difference between disappointment and disliking something mon ami.

Because you're trying to make a point that everyone feels as you do with you thinking it's crap. No difference.

[Quasimod0]

It was a good movie, but I dont think it will win any oscars. Or be nominated for any of the big ones

[jmc]

I get the feeling that are great deal of why people wanted Rises to be nominated is not because it's a great movie, but because of the injustice done to the series 4 years ago. I think the vast majority of us would agree that TDK deserved nomination, you don't even have to be a Batman fan to have thought so, from a general film making perspective it's a great piece of cinema that pushed the boundaries for not just superhero films but blockbuster films in general. But it didn't get nominated. We were all pissed, and rightfully so, but life moved on.

Cut to 4 years later and Rises is unleashed and isn't nearly as polished as its predecessor, even if one takes into account a 87% RT score the reviews aren't nearly as glowing this time around, but that means little. Buzz it what matters and Rises doesn't have anywhere near as much buzz this time around, if any. Do we all not remember Oscar talk days after TDK was released? I know I read more than one 'Could TDK be Best Picture contender' type articles. Do we not recall the numerous critic award nomination and top 10 films of the year lists that TDK appeared on well before the big awards? Remember as the months went by and the so-called Oscar baited films failed to live up to their hype and suddenly the impossible dream had a genuine shot at becoming reality? Remember the outcry when TDK failed to get Directing and BP nods? Where's that talk this time around? Nowhere.

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by kvz5

Variety ad:

Those images and this variety AD , just makes me remember you ridiculously good looking this film is. As astounding piece of natural composition.

I also liked the little synopsis

The Dark Knight Rises, the final chapter of Christopher Nolan’s trilogy, completes the saga of a hero's rebirth and sacrifice for the city that is his legacy. Bruce Wayne (Christian Bale) is now a wounded hero who has vanished into a private realm of self-doubt and sorrow. Two entwined encounters — one with the sly, artful jewel thief, Selina Kyle (Anne Hathaway), and another with the merciless terrorist, Bane (Tom Hardy), who aims to incite revolt on the streets of Gotham — lure Wayne back into Gotham City's Dickensian reality of haves and have nots. Despite the best efforts of his loyal father-figure, Alfred (Michael Caine), to encourage him to seek a new life, Wayne embarks on a journey that forces him to climb out of the abyss of spiritual despair and rediscover the will to live. Weaving together current and classic literary themes, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is a portrait of human resilience in an age of darkness.

[Laderlappen]

Rises is a great movie absolutely, its just not one of the best of the year.

[batbax]

I'm still waiting for these unbelievable movies the know it alls in this thread were clamor img about earlier in the year to really impress me. Skyfall, cloud atlas, the master, Lincoln... These were all touted(before anyone had even seen a trailer for any of them) as being untouchable and that tdkr had no shot. Funny thing about these people is out of one side of their mouth they'd say "the oscars mean nothing anyway" but out of the other side would say "tdkr isn't Oscar caliber, but wait til you see cloud atlas!" lol. I've seen all these films and, gotta say, tdkr certainly holds its own. I doubt it wins but it's hardly head and shoulders beneath these films. In fact it's right there with most.

[SpideyFan866]

Plain and simple, The Dark Knight Rises is a fantastic film, but it has no chance at even getting a nomination for anything this year.

It pains me deeply to say that , but its true.

This year films including The Life of Pi, The Master, Lincoln, Argo, and thats naming a few.

Had it been released in any other year, MAYBE it would have a chance but even then the odds would still be heavily stacked against it due to the fact its a comic book film.

In the eyes of the Academy, its the lowest type of film there is, not even above certain forms of horror.

David Cronenberg's mindset on TDKR and CBMs roughly sums up the mindset of, probably, the vast majority Academy:

"I don't think they are making them an elevated art form, I think it's still Batman running around in a stupid cape. I just don't think it's elevated. Christopher Nolan's best movie is Memento, and that is an interesting movie. I don't think his Batman movies are half as interesting, though they're 20 million times the expense."

"A superhero movie, by definition, you know, it's comic book. It's for kids," Cronenberg asserted. "It's adolescent in its core. That has always been its appeal, and I think people who are saying, you know, Dark Knight Rises is supreme cinema art, I don't think they know what the f--- they're talking about."

And that comes from a man who has directed horror films.

CBMs are seen as juvenile fantasies made for mindless enjoyment and are primarily associated with images of men running around tights fighting bad guys.

Before TDK, the only cbm to get nearly as many nominations as that did was Road to Perdition and that one of the least stereotypical cbms there is.

Even TDK, unarguably the most praised superhero film of all time, relied on heavy realism and non comic book conventions in the telling of its story.

Despite that, it still couldn't manage a nomination.

[Anno_Domini]

Wanna talk about polarizing, lol....the 'audience' area for The Master on RT is at 60%.

[batbax]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Wanna talk about polarizing, lol....the 'audience' area for The Master on RT is at 60%.

To quoute the numerous film snobs that exist on TDKR forums: "But its PTA, you arent supposed to understand or necessarily even like his films.This is the way he wants it, so its an astounding piece of art"..LOL..

Really though after seeing all these supposed "shoe ins" that people on this board pretended 5 months ago would bury TDKR in the sand its kind of funny. Sure there are some good ones but rises is much better than some would like to admit.