Arrow General Discussion Thread

[Deathstroke]

I'd keep the killing going. Make him into Jack Bauer with a bow.

[Nathan]

You know, I just have a very slight problem with him killing so much. If he's so good that he can hit a bunch of small, bouncing, tennis balls perfectly, he should be able to take enemies out, without having to kill them.

[gohei_]

Originally Posted by Nathan

You know, I just have a very slight problem with him killing so much. If he's so good that he can hit a bunch of small, bouncing, tennis balls perfectly, he should be able to take enemies out, without having to kill them.

I honestly think the reason is that he just doesn't care if some low-life criminal loses his life. Hopefully he changes in that department and becomes more efficient in shooting them in the all the right places to just take them down without killing.

[solidsnake86]

^how many people have we actually seen him kill. The three guys who kidnapped him in the pilot. The rest are left ambiguous. Even in the pilot when he attacks adam hunt in the parking garage, we later hear hunt saying that he put two of his men in the hospital.

[greenlantern248]

^ very true the pilot was the only episode we actually see him kill anyone

[TheComicbookKid]

Why are people acting like one dead body is no big deal?

Isn't the classification for a serial killer 3 people?

You have to get more hole punches to get a free sandwich at Subway.

[DrCosmic]

I just caught up on this show. I had no intention of liking it. I do, very much in fact. It has really defied a lot of the CW-ghetto anticipation and made something memorable. Yes, it is a Batman Begins ripoff. But it does it on a weekly basis for a negligible budget and not only has better fight scenes than the TDK trilogy (you can see the fight, for instance), but forges its own identity by surrounding Oliver with family and making him a killer, both embracing and rejecting the CW mold at once. It's just well done.

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

Why are people acting like one dead body is no big deal?

Isn't the classification for a serial killer 3 people?

You have to get more hole punches to get a free sandwich at Subway.

I have no idea why they do that. The fact that what Oliver is doing wrong and often unnecessary,that he is lost, that he is a bit of a monster, is a big part of what makes this show worth watching, imho. He fooled the frickin lie detector test.

[riotgirl77]

Posted an Arrow News Brief 11/14 at TV Ever After (a new site I'm a part of)...check it out even though some news may be old lol.

[Monsieur Xavier]

He didn't fooled the lie detector, he was telling the truth ( Oliver Queen isn't GA, under the hood Oliver is no more in his own point of view ) or used the truth to cover another one ( did you ever killed someone ? yes your daughter bla bla ).

[TheComicbookKid]

Originally Posted by Monsieur Xavier

He didn't fooled the lie detector, he was telling the truth ( Oliver Queen isn't GA, under the hood Oliver is no more in his own point of view ) or used the truth to cover another one ( did you ever killed someone ? yes your daughter bla bla ).

You realize you're describing some kind of identity disorder.

[solidsnake86]

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

Why are people acting like one dead body is no big deal?

Isn't the classification for a serial killer 3 people?

You have to get more hole punches to get a free sandwich at Subway.

Obviously it is a big deal, but all superheroes are vigilantes which is not legal anyways. All of them would be charged with assault, battery, obstruction of justice. Those are all crimes as well, murder is obviously the worst, but a crime is a crime. Once you start thinking about it, superheroes do more harm than good because half of the evidence they give to the police would be inadmissible.

As they have been saying, collateral damage has to be expected. For all Oliver knew, his kidnappers were going to kill him. Unless I'm missing something, those are the only ones he has murdered. I don't recall him going out of his wa to murder one of the people on the list in cold blood yet.

If you start applying your logic to other characters, Indiana Jones is also a serial killer/cold blooded killer. Half of the cops on tv would be no better.

[Monsieur Xavier]

It is not uncommon in the superhero world, look at Batman ( I know it is cliché but it is one of the few sups that I know the background a bit or think I know ).
Oliver says it himself in the intro : I must become something else.
It is only a disorder when you have no control over it, Oliver did I think.

[Artistsean]

What the show has set up is that he was trapped on an island (alone) for 5 years, being hunted and tortured, where it was kill or be killed. He had to become a killer and now that he is back to Starling City he may think he has readjusted and isn't crazy, but he became institutionalized by the island. He is still in that kill or be killed mind set, where he doesn't realize how its wrong. He sees killing as justice, not that he is going out and being Batman. He is going out to stop guys on his list and using what he learned on the island, including the kill or be killed philosophy. What needs to happen is that Diggle is able to convince him not to kill. Diggle has told him he will guide him so that Oliver doesn't loose his soul in his war, and Oliver saw how Laurel reacted when he nearly beat a man to death in front of her. I think he will become less of a killer.

What bugs me is how everyone always, always, seays to him how he doesn't care about others. His mother, his sister, his girlfriend, Diggle, everyone.

[Paradox1]

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

Why are people acting like one dead body is no big deal?

Isn't the classification for a serial killer 3 people?

You have to get more hole punches to get a free sandwich at Subway.

Serial Killer?! that's hyperbole he's a classic case of vigilantism.

[Monsieur Xavier]

I don't see him with this mind set ( kill or be killed ). So far the only people he killed was those who kidnapped him because he has no choice.

[TheComicbookKid]

Originally Posted by solidsnake86

Obviously it is a big deal, but all superheroes are vigilantes which is not legal anyways. All of them would be charged with assault, battery, obstruction of justice. Those are all crimes as well, murder is obviously the worst, but a crime is a crime. Once you start thinking about it, superheroes do more harm than good because half of the evidence they give to the police would be inadmissible.

As they have been saying, collateral damage has to be expected. For all Oliver knew, his kidnappers were going to kill him. Unless I'm missing something, those are the only ones he has murdered. I don't recall him going out of his wa to murder one of the people on the list in cold blood yet.

The argument wasn't whether it is legal. The argument is why are people(Starling City) going crazy about some guy killing/shooting a few people will arrows.

The point is that from the Starling City perspective, there is no list. Random rich people(who no one knows are evil) are being killed with arrows. Not guns or tasers. FREAKING ARROWS! Yeah, that's normal.

Originally Posted by solidsnake86

If you start applying your logic to other characters, Indiana Jones is also a serial killer/cold blooded killer. Half of the cops on tv would be no better.

Those are in no way the same. That's like saying someone who strangles cats is the same as a big game hunter who trains and is licensed.

OMG! Well, they both enjoy killing animals!

Indy didn't go looking to kill a bunch of tribesmen.

No.

[Nathan]

I'm sure some of those guys, during the China White Episode, didn't survive. Like the guy he caused to fall. I'm sure Drakon didn't make it either in the first Episode, or the guy who got an arrow in the chest right when the Elevator doors opened.

[TheComicbookKid]

Originally Posted by Paradox1

Serial Killer?! that's hyperbole he's a classic case of vigilantism.

I'm not saying he is a serial killer.

I'm saying that acting like him shooting a few people should be no big deal is insane.

Of course people should be freaked out.

[protocida]

^ It's not nothing, but it's really no big deal either.

He's killing murderers. People who have it coming.

[TheComicbookKid]

Originally Posted by protocida

^ It's not nothing, but it's really no big deal either.

He's killing murderers. People who have it coming.

Rich people are murders? Bodyguards are murders?


This is exactly what Diggle was telling him. "You're not a soldier"

Some guy puts on a bullet proof vest and starts shooting Muslims in the legs isn't fighting the War on Terror.

If Ollie had any evidence besides that book, he could have just handed it over to the police. He decided how they should be punished.

From Det.Lance and the people of Starling City's perspective. There is no list. They have no way of knowing when or if the Hood is going to stop.



What happens if one of the names on that list isn't some mustache twirling villain. What if he changed his life since what happened that got his name on the list. Is Ollie going to make him pay regardless?

[protocida]

Oliver investigates beforehand.

And he doesn't kill those bodyguards. He incapacitates them.

The only people that were confirmed to have been killed by him where the mercenaries who kidnapped him -- And who threatned to kill Tommy and needlessly killed a eyewitness passing by -- and Constantine Drakon.

[Paradox1]

He's not killing the Paris Hilton's of the world. The targets of Ollie's attack are people who've robbed people of their pentions, poisoned the environment, and sold guns to the cities youth. These kind of people will see little pitty from the media and public at large. Til a innocent dies he'll be Robin Hood

[solidsnake86]

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

Those are in no way the same. That's like saying someone who strangles cats is the same as a big game hunter who trains and is licensed.

OMG! Well, they both enjoy killing animals!

Indy didn't go looking to kill a bunch of tribesmen.

No.

How are they in no way the same. In raiders the guy takes out a sword and indy shoots him with a gun. Thats cold blooded murder. His kidnappers killed an innocent person. He has yet to full out kill a person on the list.

[TheComicbookKid]

Originally Posted by protocida

Oliver investigates beforehand.

And he doesn't kill those bodyguards. He incapacitates them.

The truth is none of us know. You can die from bleeding out in the leg as much as a shot to the heart.

But yeah, I agree the point of the training montage is that he can make non-lethal shots.

Originally Posted by protocida

The only people that were confirmed to have been killed by him where the mercenaries who kidnapped him -- And who threatned to kill Tommy and needlessly killed a eyewitness passing by -- and Constantine Drakon.

None of what you're saying is false. Kidnapping doesn't make them murders though. He killed them to protect his identity.



My point is just that the dude is insane and everyone has a right to be afraid of him. Incapacitated, shot, murder or whatever.

The flaw in GA's logic that a list of 10 people is going to make a difference. This is just revenge disguised as making the city better. Killing people for past misdeeds does nothing to make the city better now. It doesn't do anything to address what is wrong with the city in the five years he's been gone. The new threats.

Once Ollie realizes this, I think the Hood will become the hero he is supposed to be.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Monsieur Xavier

He didn't fooled the lie detector, he was telling the truth ( Oliver Queen isn't GA, under the hood Oliver is no more in his own point of view ) or used the truth to cover another one ( did you ever killed someone ? yes your daughter bla bla ).

Good point on the killing thing. He had been to the jail and the only person who noticed was the person who knew first hand he was lying. He fooled the test. And no one asked if OQ was GA, but if you are this person in the picture. He fooled the test. Epically. Makes the island a heckuva lot more interesting in the story too.

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

What happens if one of the names on that list isn't some mustache twirling villain. What if he changed his life since what happened that got his name on the list. Is Ollie going to make him pay regardless?

IIRC, he gives people 'chances.'

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

My point is just that the dude is insane and everyone has a right to be afraid of him. Incapacitated, shot, murder or whatever.

The flaw in GA's logic that a list of 10 people is going to make a difference. This is just revenge disguised as making the city better. Killing people for past misdeeds does nothing to make the city better now. It doesn't do anything to address what is wrong with the city in the five years he's been gone. The new threats.

Once Ollie realizes this, I think the Hood will become the hero he is supposed to be.

I think when we can simply point out a flaw in his logic, it shows that he's not insane. Certainly obsessed, but he doesn't need medication, he just needs a slightly bigger worldview, as you imply.