Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Anti-Moderator

This is a beautiful thing. I just wished Arkansas could have gotten over the hump. The south really has a ways to go before "we" wake up.

I think the entire country has a ways to go before we wake up....

Nothing is going to matter if we don't get this debt under control...no social issue will even be on the radar if something isn't done quickly. Do I think something will be done quickly? Oh hell no....Because neither party is willing to bite the bullet, nor is any citizen all that willing to suffer some negative consequences of our inability to vote people in that have the balls to cut spending across the board. THAT IS the only way we are going to get out of this hole we have dug, and if it is less than a 10% across the board cut in spending, I don't see us moving anywhere in 4 years.

Now mind you, nationally legalizing marijuana and taxing the hell out of it, would be a great start to paying down that debt as well.... : )

[Dark Sentinel]

Alright, so a question for discussion:

Given the "Prohibition prices" of marijuana are based on the risk of lawbreaking, how much do you think those prices will go DOWN once the states set regulations for legal growth, processing and sale?

I personally think it could go down to about $20-25 an ounce, to factor in the excise tax.

[Bathead]

Sounds about right.

[warhorse78]

Originally Posted by Kelly

I think the entire country has a ways to go before we wake up....

Nothing is going to matter if we don't get this debt under control...no social issue will even be on the radar if something isn't done quickly. Do I think something will be done quickly? Oh hell no....Because neither party is willing to bite the bullet, nor is any citizen all that willing to suffer some negative consequences of our inability to vote people in that have the balls to cut spending across the board. THAT IS the only way we are going to get out of this hole we have dug, and if it is less than a 10% across the board cut in spending, I don't see us moving anywhere in 4 years.

Now mind you, nationally legalizing marijuana and taxing the hell out of it, would be a great start to paying down that debt as well.... : )

Not just the taxing of the stuff, but the legal, taxable employment it would create as well!

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Dark Sentinel

Alright, so a question for discussion:

Given the "Prohibition prices" of marijuana are based on the risk of lawbreaking, how much do you think those prices will go DOWN once the states set regulations for legal growth, processing and sale?

I personally think it could go down to about $20-25 an ounce, to factor in the excise tax.

haha, a dime bag would weigh half an ounce instead of half a gram.

The price will go down but not that far down. The government is going to tax It like crazy.

[MessiahDecoy123]

175 misdemeanor marijuana possession charges dropped in Washington state.

- CNN

[wiegeabo]

daaamn.

So how much money are the taxpayers saving in less than a week?

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by warhorse78

Not just the taxing of the stuff, but the legal, taxable employment it would create as well!

Definitely.....

[MessiahDecoy123]

There should also be a needed boost to tourism.

[Sun_Down]

Originally Posted by Dark Sentinel

Alright, so a question for discussion:

Given the "Prohibition prices" of marijuana are based on the risk of lawbreaking, how much do you think those prices will go DOWN once the states set regulations for legal growth, processing and sale?

I personally think it could go down to about $20-25 an ounce, to factor in the excise tax.

It could conceivably go that low. NORML thinks it could go as low as $3/oz., which is a bit low, I think. (Side note: I don't particularly respect NORML. They don't really do anything, and I've met Paul Kuhn and think he's kind of a douche.)

Washington is expecting a cost of $12/gram, which would be about $330/oz., not counting for any bulk discount. That's basically street price, which would be a bad decision. I think a number like $100/oz. would be reasonable, and would still offer a significant discount over the street price.

But yeah, in terms of what it actually costs to produce, it could completely go as low as $25.

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

haha, a dime bag would weigh half an ounce instead of half a gram.

The price will go down but not that far down. The government is going to tax It like crazy.

Colorado's Amendment 64 caps the excise tax at 15%. And the license fees are very cheap ($500 initially and $100 a year thereafter, IIRC).

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Interesting discussion. The pricing will go down signfinicantly because otherwise they cant kill the black market if the black market is allowed to compete by selling at lower prices than the goverment. Id say were looking at less than half the cost of street price which still leaves a nice piece for taxes.

[Hawkingbird]

Can someone update me on the legalizing weed in Colorado?

[MessiahDecoy123]

Basically in a month it will be legal to posses under an ounce of cannabis. Any adult can grow up to six plants. The specifics about how weed will be sold and distributed will take some time to work out but people should be able to buy it in several months to a year.

The governor of Colorado, who was in the brewery business, opposes cannabis legalization and seems to be looking for a way to avoid enforcing legalization on a state level.

[Sun_Down]

Originally Posted by 8Diagrams(WU)

Interesting discussion. The pricing will go down signfinicantly because otherwise they cant kill the black market if the black market is allowed to compete by selling at lower prices than the goverment. Id say were looking at less than half the cost of street price which still leaves a nice piece for taxes.

Yeah, they're definitely aware that they can't price/tax it too high. At $150/oz., the total taxes would only be another ~$32.25. That's using the state's 2.9% sales tax + Denver's 3.62% sales tax (as an example) + 15% excise tax. That makes the total cost around $182, which is a huge discount from street prices, which are probably between $250-350/oz. And honestly, that price is probably on the high end.

Not the mention the other benefits: no risk of arrest, higher quality, more consistent product and convenience. If they do this right, the black market for marijuana becomes like the black market for alcohol: very small, largely insignificant, and only utilized by total weirdos.

[Dark Sentinel]

Originally Posted by 8Diagrams(WU)

Interesting discussion. The pricing will go down signfinicantly because otherwise they cant kill the black market if the black market is allowed to compete by selling at lower prices than the goverment. Id say were looking at less than half the cost of street price which still leaves a nice piece for taxes.

Florida has a 6% sales tax, so if it is (hopefully) legalized here sometime in the near future, the price per ounce will have dropped dramatically as more states pass legalization referendums, or Congress (best case scenario) decides to pass federal legalization to boost the economy:

Using the WA model (which I feel is the best):

Producer to Processor: $196.50 per ounce (estimating wholesale at $100, + 6% sales tax & 25% excise)

Processor to Retailer(s): $98.25 per ounce ($75 wholesale)

Retailer to Consumer: $49.13 per ounce ($37.50 wholesale)

If my math is off let me know (it was never my strong suit--those who've bought my book know this all too well ) but that's my rough guesstimate, and it's not as low as I originally projected.

[wiegeabo]

I wonder what the marijuana equivalent of moonshine is

[SV Fan]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83737.html

In the wake of Barack Obama’s reelection win and ahead of a possible 2016 White House bid of his own, the Kentucky Republican plans to mix his hard-line tea party conservatism with more moderate policies that could woo younger voters and minorities largely absent from the GOP coalition. It’s the latest tactic of the freshman senator to inject the Libertarian-minded views shared by his retiring father into mainstream Republican thinking as the party grapples with its future.

In an interview with POLITICO, Paul said he’ll return to Congress this week pushing measures long avoided by his party. He wants to work with liberal Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy and Republicans to eliminate mandatory minimum sentences for pot possession.

http://www.wbko.com/news/headlines/S...179183591.html

Sen. Rand Paul Seeks to Allow Growth of Industrial Hemp

On Nov. 14 at 10:00 a.m. ET, representatives of thenation’s leading industrial hemp advocacy group, Vote Hemp, and top-selling natural soap brand Dr. Bronner’s Magic Soaps will meet with Kentucky Senator Rand Paul’s staff and members of the revived Kentucky Industrial Hemp Commission, led by Kentucky Agriculture Commissioner James Comer, for a special meeting of the Kentucky Industrial Hemp Commission to be held at the Kentucky Department of Agriculture in Frankfort, KY. Under the leadership of Senator Paul and Commissioner Comer, this group of industry and political leaders is uniquely positioned to advance Kentucky to be the first state to allow hemp farming with federal regulation.

[Hawkingbird]

Uh, I disagree with it

[Dark Sentinel]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

Uh, I disagree with it

With legalization? If so, why?

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by Dark Sentinel

With legalization? If so, why?

• Gateway drug
  Mental health links
  Unknown health links

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

• Gateway drug
  Mental health links
  Unknown health links

It's a gateway only because it is illegal. Drug dealers push other illicit drugs on buyers who initially only bought weed. In Amsterdam, illicit drug use went down after weed cafes were opened.

Mentally there's no proof that cannabis is harmful. The only negative is a possible connection with schizophrenia. But even that connection is questionable. Despite highly increased use of cannabis the rate of schizophrenia has remained constant at 1% of the population. That wouldn't be the case if a popular drug like cannabis caused schizophrenia.

Your "unknown heath risks" is a bit silly. We know, from decades of studying cannabis users that no one has ever died or been noticeably harmed from using cannabis. Meanwhile alcohol causes 75,00 deaths a year and it's perfectly legal.

[Anti-Moderator]

State Legislators in Rhode Island and Maine Are Announcing Marijuana Legalization Bills

[ShaDynasty]

Well I mean you ARE inhaling carbon monoxide which is bad for your lungs...

But I don't disagree with its legalization in the least. If smoking a cigarette is legal, it's plain silly that smoking a blunt isn't.

[Anti-Moderator]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

It's a gateway only because it is illegal. Drug dealers push other illicit drugs on buyers who initially only bought weed. In Amsterdam, illicit drug use went down after weed cafes were opened.

Mentally there's no proof that cannabis is harmful. The only negative is a possible connection with schizophrenia. But even that connection is questionable. Despite highly increased use of cannabis the rate of schizophrenia has remained constant at 1% of the population. That wouldn't be the case if a popular drug like cannabis caused schizophrenia.

Your "unknown heath risks" is a bit silly. We know, from decades of studying cannabis users that no one has ever died or been noticeably harmed from using cannabis. Meanwhile alcohol causes 75,00 deaths a year and it's perfectly legal.

Excellent points MessiahDecoy123.

[wiegeabo]

I think what the legalization movement really needs in order to bump up its legitimacy is the equivalent to alcohol sobriety road tests.

When the law can say .08 (or whatever) is over the legal limit for pot, and can give field tests to catch DWI's, and employers can give tests, and the tests don't trigger on trace levels from days ago that have no effects anymore, then you'll see it legally treated the same as alcohol nation-wide.

And if such standards and tests do exist, the movement needs to do a better job publicizing that, because, as an outsider, I haven't heard of them myself. And I actually support legalization.