Skyfall vs. TDKR

[TheBat812]

Well, that wouldn't be original anymore would it... I just mean I want him to have a completely blank canvas to work with rather than work with an established character. I wouldn't say no to a Nolan Bond film, but it's just not what I hope he does, nor do I think he's particularly eager to delve back into another franchise just yet.

[Anno_Domini]

Creating an original story is what it's about as much as an original story was created about TDK and TDKR even with characters such as Batman, Joker, Bane, etc.

[TheBat812]

I'm not discounting what you're saying, I just personally would rather see him create all new characters and stories that explore things he's interested in, rather than start working on a new franchise with established characters. Personal preference. We need more amazing original films these days, fewer adaptations/remakes/reboots...

[Deserana]

Just watched Skyfall yesterday and whislt I enjoyed it quite a bit TDKR by a million miles was the better film IMO. Infact it took a film as big as Skyfall to make me realise just how big TDKR is, never really thought it was that BIG but it just stands out now.

[J.Howlett]

As far as similarities to Nolan's Batfilms go, in particular THE DARK KNIGHT...they were pretty basic and minimal, really limited to one key section of the film, and I think Mendes came out ahead there comparitively. SKYFALL is just a more consistent film than THE DARK KNIGHT RISES or THE DARK KNIGHT (though TDK has enough high points that I wouldn't want to begin deciding which is the better film between SKYFALL and TDK).

Yeah, ********. It's more than just basic and minimal. Skyfall, as much as I really, really like it (third favorite film of the year), is damn near a remake of the Dark Knight. Right down to the story points and the theatricality of the villain....

[Anno_Domini]

^ Thank you, you made my point from a few pages back. Skyfall should be more compared to The Dark Knight than TDKR.

[FCEEVIPER]

Originally Posted by Batmansvoice

Hate to say it, but for me, SkyFall beats this movie wholeheartedly.

I totally disagree with you wholeheartedly. I still feel Casino Royal and TDKR are superior movies to SkyFall.

Also, I felt that Skyfall was good, but it took lots of themes/copied from TDK (Not the TDKR).

[The Guard]

Yeah, ********. It's more than just basic and minimal. Skyfall, as much as I really, really like it (third favorite film of the year), is damn near a remake of the Dark Knight. Right down to the story points and the theatricality of the villain....

How so?

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

Yeah, ********. It's more than just basic and minimal. Skyfall, as much as I really, really like it (third favorite film of the year), is damn near a remake of the Dark Knight. Right down to the story points and the theatricality of the villain....

My sister and I couldn't stop talking about how similar the films are to each other.

TDKR's is the wrong Batman flick to compare Skyfall to.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by The Guard

How so?

Yeah I wanna know this, too.

[Mysteryman]

I have not seen Skyfall yet , but why is it neccessary to pit these two films against each other?

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by The Guard

How so?

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

The villain "plans" to get caught, just like the Joker, and is always one step ahead.

The villain is a chaotic terrorist.

The villain has a mouth disfigurement much like the Joker.

The villain disguises himself as a cop at one point.

Bond is orphaned, has an old manor house that gets burned down by the villain (BB), etc.

[ThePhantasm]

Oh, and the director admits the film was inspired by The Dark Knight here.

[JackWhite]

I just saw a still of Javier sitting exactly like the Joker in the jail scene from TDK. lol. Still going to check out Skyfall though. Big fan of where they have taken the character.

[Doc Samson]

It is similar in some regards, obviously the biggest being Silva and his tactics. That being said, it wasn't to the extent that I was sitting there counting off bullet points, totally removed from the film. It was an excellent movie, I wouldn't say better necessarily than Casino Royale, but definitely its equal.

By the way

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

when Silva takes his teeth out

was one of the biggest "holy ****!" moments for me at a theater in a long time. It just caught me completely off guard, in a good way.

Originally Posted by Dark Knight

The thing about a minority of fanboys being disappointed or not liking the 3rd act of TDKR's is mainly because most fanboys knew the LOS and there would be a Talia reveal and some of you just didn't like that from the very beginning.

You already decided you wouldn't like the film before you even saw it.

Been saying this for months, although some of the criticism I agree with, particularly the absence of the Gothamite POV, if you will. But essentially a good portion of the twists and turns of the film were already spelled out by astute fans well in advance. Years even. I think this is why, at least in my experience, the general people who just like Batman but aren't diehards loved TDKR, while some of us, not so much...

[J.Howlett]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

The villain "plans" to get caught, just like the Joker, and is always one step ahead.

The villain is a chaotic terrorist.

The villain has a mouth disfigurement much like the Joker.

The villain disguises himself as a cop at one point.

Bond is orphaned, has an old manor house that gets burned down by the villain (BB), etc.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Not to mention the hole that Bond locks himself in for two days after he finds out his parents died is essentially the well that Bruce falls into in Begins and has to ascend in Rises.

In both regards, the characters of Bond and Bruce Wayne are changed forever.

Again, love Skyfall to death but there's no argument here.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I saw a lot of Heath's Joker in Bardem's performance in Skyfall.

[Brain Damage]

Originally Posted by Doc Samson

Been saying this for months, although some of the criticism I agree with, particularly the absence of the Gothamite POV, if you will. But essentially a good portion of the twists and turns of the film were already spelled out by astute fans well in advance. Years even. I think this is why, at least in my experience, the general people who just like Batman but aren't diehards loved TDKR, while some of us, not so much...

Ooor, it's because Miranda Tate was an underdeveloped character and her reveal cheapened Bane? I'm really tired of hearing the excuse that fans didn't like Talia just because they knew it was coming. Maybe a very small minority does, but for most of us it's a problem with the film itself.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

Ooor, it's because Miranda Tate was an underdeveloped character and her reveal cheapened Bane? I'm really tired of hearing the excuse that fans didn't like Talia just because they knew it was coming. Maybe a very small minority does, but for most of us it's a problem with the film itself.

I second that. Knowing about Talia had nothing to do with it. Even if I didn't know it would still lack impact because Miranda was a dull under developed character and I didn't really care about her any more than I cared about Foley.

[TheBat812]

Bane's plan would not succeed without her, nor would he ever have been involved with LOS without her. She's on the inside, sabotaging multiple attempts to undermine their plan. People seem to forget how important she was to the story, but its incredibly evident with multiple viewings. Sure, it could've just been Bane, but I don't think that's stronger and it doesn't take advantage of a classic Batman story point.

[The Guard]

The villain "plans" to get caught, just like the Joker, and is always one step ahead.

A pretty basic similarity. There are plenty of villains who have had this element. It's not unique to THE DARK KNIGHT, nor is it handled in the same manner as it was there.

The villain is a chaotic terrorist.

Like most Bond villains...again, this is a pretty basic similarity. Although I'm sure not sure he was only about causing chaos. Silva seemed to be more about imposing his own kind of order through less direct methods. I suppose he caused some chaos, but that didn't seem to be his only goal.

The villain has a mouth disfigurement much like the Joker.

Except that it's not "much like The Joker". Silva had his mouth burned out from the inside by cyanide. He's missing some teeth and part of his mouth. The Joker has scars carved into the shape of a smile outside his face. That's a pretty sizeable difference. I might as well say "The villain has longer than average hair like The Joker"...

The villain disguises himself as a cop at one point.

Again, this is a pretty basic similarity. Villains have been disguising themselves as police and other authority figures to blend in for a long time. It
happened in CASINO ROYALE before THE DARK KNIGHT ever used the concept.

The Joker disguised himself as a cop to infiltrate a public funeral. Silva disguises himself as a cop to lead Bond a merry chase through the sewers, tunnels, subway system, and then into a courtroom. Pretty big difference in their use as a story point. Again, just a basic similarity.

Bond is orphaned

Again, this is a very basic similarity, found in many stories and films. Bond has always been an orphan, which we learned most recently in CASINO ROYALE.

has an old manor house that gets burned down by the villain (BB), etc.

That's a pretty decent similarity, although that there are differences here as well: Bond himself has a hand in blowing up his home/his home catching fire. He essentially sacrifices it/uses it to defend M.

As I've pointed out, the first three things you mentioned are confined to one part of SKYFALL, IE, a few key sequences in the middle.

That certainly does not make the entire film "damn near a remake" of THE DARK KNIGHT. Not in the least. Unless you just conveniently forget about the other 80 percent of the movie and the obvious differences in the use of the story elements.

[DACrowe]

I'm not going to get into it too deeply, but you cannot write off Silva as "another Bond villain." The whole conceit is that he is their first serious post-9/11 baddie. The "non-state actor." M even has a big speech about it in the second half of the movie before Parliament...which is cut like TDK when the Joker is coming for Harvey Dent, Silva is coming for her. And why is that in-vogue right now? Because Nolan did that with the Joker and Bane in his last two Batman movies.

They even introduce a fatherly figure who helped raise Bond after his parents died in his depressing home manor which is attacked. It is very heavily influenced by what Nolan did. To deny that is simply denial.

[J.Howlett]

Originally Posted by DACrowe

I'm not going to get into it too deeply, but you cannot write off Silva as "another Bond villain." The whole conceit is that he is their first serious post-9/11 baddie. The "non-state actor." M even has a big speech about it in the second half of the movie before Parliament...which is cut like TDK when the Joker is coming for Harvey Dent, Silva is coming for her. And why is that in-vogue right now? Because Nolan did that with the Joker and Bane in his last two Batman movies.

They even introduce a fatherly figure who helped raise Bond after his parents died in his depressing home manor which is attacked. It is very heavily influenced by what Nolan did. To deny that is simply denial.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by dacrowe

i'm not going to get into it too deeply, but you cannot write off silva as "another bond villain." the whole conceit is that he is their first serious post-9/11 baddie. The "non-state actor." m even has a big speech about it in the second half of the movie before parliament...which is cut like tdk when the joker is coming for harvey dent, silva is coming for her. And why is that in-vogue right now? Because nolan did that with the joker and bane in his last two batman movies.

They even introduce a fatherly figure who helped raise bond after his parents died in his depressing home manor which is attacked. It is very heavily influenced by what nolan did. To deny that is simply denial.

Qft.

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by The Guard

That certainly does not make the entire film "damn near a remake" of THE DARK KNIGHT. Not in the least. Unless you just conveniently forget about the other 80 percent of the movie and the obvious differences in the use of the story elements.

Sorry, I took the "remake" language as hyperbole. That aside, I think you are downplaying the similarities and parallels a bit much as if they were simply coincidental. The point that the director has explicitly stated TDK's influence on Skyfall aside, the parallels accumulate into an overall pervasive influence. If you critique them only one by one on a surface level, as you did, then of course each might be dismissed, but together they form a strong connection between the films that is really quite plain, I think.