Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux

[Lei D Loki]

That gif kills me. Everytime.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Lei D Loki

Loki missed a lot of truths, the big one is that he is loved.

True.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by Lei D Loki

When Tom was talking about how Loki can do a 180, I thought he would be talking about how Loki can be bad one moment, then nice the next. I was so relieved that's not what he meant. Like I keep saying in this thread, I want a chaotic Loki.

When he talked about how everyone will have opinions on what happened in Avengers and that Thor and Loki being on Earth while things are happening in Asgard, I thought maybe some people were not happy that Thor was even on Earth instead of taking care of things in Asgard.

Also, there must be different opinions on how Loki should be punished. Surely Frigga would propose more leniency being a mom. I wonder if Loki got any sympathy from the Warriors 3 and Sif?

Re: the drunk Tom thread in ONTD. I didn't get any sense at all from any of the comments that they were vilifying Tom for getting drunk. However, there were posts there that I didn't like. Those implying that Tom is some over-privileged dude who don't care about poor people because of the pics of him holding trays of food and drinking wine and having fun at a posh event. WTF? The guy was just invited to a party and people took pictures of him having fun. Yes, he is privileged but I doubt that he was in that party laughing at poor people.

I do agree that ONTD posters are hypocritical and love bringing down any celeb. They love criticizing Tumblr fans for being crazy and whatnot, which may be true, but they are no different. At least Tumblr fans are crazy in their love of their idols whereas ONTD members are crazy in their hate.

As do I. Even as Joss Whedon said, he wasn't to sure about Loki cause he was..I quote him.. "too sympathetic" in Thor 1, he was concerned about the character in the avengers, however, he said it was better cause he made him in the avengers basically "how he is written in the comics"

though he was a bit chaotic in thor 1, he did manipulate his way to the thrown. I don't want a soft sympathetic loki either, chaotic works perfectly. Chaotic and selfish

[Godzilla2000]

Originally Posted by Lei D Loki

Loki missed a lot of truths, the big one is that he is loved.

Aw...I think that is so true. Loki is so wrapped up in the fact his true lineage was kept from him that he's forgotten just how well he's been treated by his foster family, even being made a prince when Odin could have just as easily made him a commoner in his court.

[Doc Ock]

Originally Posted by Lei D Loki

Loki missed a lot of truths, the big one is that he is loved.

Yeah, I think thats alot of what makes Loki such a good villain.

[Godzilla2000]

Originally Posted by Doc Ock

Yeah, I think thats alot of what makes Loki such a good villain.

I think we've yet to see Loki in his full villainy though. It's like a slow build to the character becoming purely evil I seem to think.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

I think we've yet to see Loki in his full villainy though. It's like a slow build to the character becoming purely evil I seem to think.

That's what I am hoping. Yeah, Loki is MCU Loki. But I am DYING to see a full on comic loki on screen, THAT is the loki I want to see. THAT is the loki that got me to appreciate villains as more than just "the bad guy", and just to understand the depth of characters period

and unfortunately for Loki, Thanos has taken over the top spot as my favorite villain, and will most likely never yield that position :P

Thor will always be my favorite hero though

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

That's what I am hoping. Yeah, Loki is MCU Loki. But I am DYING to see a full on comic loki on screen, THAT is the loki I want to see. THAT is the loki that got me to appreciate villains as more than just "the bad guy", and just to understand the depth of characters period

and unfortunately for Loki, Thanos has taken over the top spot as my favorite villain, and will most likely never yield that position :P

Thor will always be my favorite hero though

MCU Loki: Oh, really? You dull creature! Don't you know, I have an army? Now if you'll excuse me, I have have to destroy Jaquaheim.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

MCU Loki: Oh, really? You dull creature! Don't you know, I have an army? Now if you'll excuse me, I have have to destroy Jaquaheim.

are you threatening me wit loki, due to my preference of Thanos?

[Godzilla2000]

Please, please, can't we all just get along?

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

are you threatening me wit loki, due to my preference of Thanos?

Huh? *looks innocent* Why, no! I dont know how that got there! How terrible! MCU Loki must have hacked into my account somehow. Clever trickster that he is... And he doesn't look happy there, does he? Could have been your preference for Thor or I think he may have taken your preference for comics Loki to heart, too. He's so sensitive and all. Poor guy.

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

Please, please, can't we all just get along?

Just kidding around, in case it isn't clear. LOL

[Godzilla2000]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Just kidding around, in case it isn't clear. LOL

Yep, I figured as much pardner. Yeehaw!!

[American Maid]

"Jaquaheim"--maybe we'll see that instead of one of the other realms

[Godzilla2000]

I was thinking about this, and please tell me what you think, but in terms of Loki becoming full blown evil as he is in the comicbooks, I think that Loki should he die in this movie is sent to Hel despite his death being a redemptive act of sacrifice should send him over the top into madness and anger that his father would have done this to him even after he tried to be heroic. Or that would be the final betrayal in his mind as he sees it when where Loki's soul goes in the afterlife isn't completely Odin's choice since Loki is not an Asgardian.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

I was thinking about this, and please tell me what you think, but in terms of Loki becoming full blown evil as he is in the comicbooks, I think that Loki should he die in this movie is sent to Hel despite his death being a redemptive act of sacrifice should send him over the top into madness and anger that his father would have done this to him even after he tried to be heroic. Or that would be the final betrayal in his mind as he sees it when where Loki's soul in the afterlife isn't really fully Odin's choice since Loki is not an Asgardian.

If all of that were to happen, then yes he could go full comics Loki at that point. I do think that Odin would save him in this instance though, if he can, however maybe it isn't his choice, as you say.

However, I really really really really really really really really really really don't think that's the direction they are going in for MCU Loki, at least not for Thor 2. But that's JMO

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

If all of that were to happen, then yes he could go full comics Loki at that point. I do think that Odin would save him in this instance though, if he can, however maybe it isn't his choice, as you say.

However, I really really really really really really really really really really don't think that's the direction they are going in for MCU Loki, at least not for Thor 2. But that's JMO

I agree that they're not likely to go in this direction. But it's a really intriguing idea! I have the impression that they have brought souls back from time to time in the books. For example, the Destroyer I guess normally is animated by one soul or another. And I read an interview with Clark Gregg one time, and he suggested a way to bring Coulson back is as Vision. (apparently a robot that is occupied by a soul).

Malevolent spirit indeed.

[Godzilla2000]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

are you threatening me wit loki, due to my preference of Thanos?

She can threaten me with Loki anytime.

Originally Posted by elizah72

If all of that were to happen, then yes he could go full comics Loki at that point. I do think that Odin would save him in this instance though, if he can, however maybe it isn't his choice, as you say.

However, I really really really really really really really really really really don't think that's the direction they are going in for MCU Loki, at least not for Thor 2. But that's JMO

Well, I think an absolutely unremorseful MCU Loki is possible, but not until the next movie at least. I mean hypothetically just think of it this way, Loki has just saved all the nine realms by giving up his life for them with a tear inducing death scene with Odin and Thor mourning him as he passes into the next world, but try as Odin can to rescue his soul from eternal suffering there's nothing Odin can do for fear of the other realms revolting against an already weakened Asgard. So Odin has to make the painful decision to let Loki's soul face eternal damnation for the sake of the trillions of lifeforms in all the nine realms. So there's Loki in Hel surrounded by the wails of the damned, his daughter Hela taunting him and so in his spirit state he goes through a transformation, perhaps still tainted by Dark Energy which now takes control and he wrests control of the underworld from Hela and sets about resurrecting himself so that he can mete out in his mind a just revenge against Odin and Thor for their betrayal, perhaps making a deal with Surtur to bring about the total destruction of everything as a way to purge the objects of his hatred as well as release him from his fate by never existing in the first place.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

try as Odin can to rescue [Loki's] soul from eternal suffering there's nothing Odin can do for fear of the other realms revolting against an already weakened Asgard. So Odin has to make the painful decision to let Loki's soul face eternal damnation for the sake of the trillions of lifeforms in all the nine realms.

Moral sacrifice.

[Godzilla2000]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Moral sacrifice.

Ah hah! Just like on that banner for that fictitious movie on the side of that Double Decker Bus.

Let's face it, because of what Loki did during his exile, all the evil things he engaged in willingly for Thanos to gain more power, Odin just cannot be lenient with Loki even if he wanted to, not even after Loki did something out of the earnest inclination to do something right and selfless for a change instead of being selfish. The tragedy of Loki's character arc and the truth of his very existence would be elevated a notch more if this were to happen. If this Moral Sacrifice plot is what's in store for Loki I cannot wait to see how it will all play out, especially between Tom Hiddleston and Anthony Hopkins. Odin's grief should be excruciating to see, especially considering the thoughts going through his head, like whether or not he should have left Loki to freeze to death as a baby. Oh I am hoping that my assumptions are correct because the drama level would be off the scale.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

Odin's grief should be excruciating to see, especially considering the thoughts going through his head, like whether or not he should have left Loki to freeze to death as a baby.

I would hope that he would dwell more on the regret of not telling Loki of his heritage than the thought of whether he should have left Loki to die. The general thinking is that Odin is more sympathetic in the MCU.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

She can threaten me with Loki anytime.

MCU Loki: Perhaps another time, my dear... *chuckles*

[elizah72]

Whaaaa? Huh? Look! He did it again! Bad MCU Loki! Bad!!!

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

Ah hah! Just like on that banner for that fictitious movie on the side of that Double Decker Bus.

Let's face it, because of what Loki did during his exile, all the evil things he engaged in willingly for Thanos to gain more power, Odin just cannot be lenient with Loki even if he wanted to, not even after Loki did something out of the earnest inclination to do something right and selfless for a change instead of being selfish. The tragedy of Loki's character arc and the truth of his very existence would be elevated a notch more if this were to happen. If this Moral Sacrifice plot is what's in store for Loki I cannot wait to see how it will all play out, especially between Tom Hiddleston and Anthony Hopkins. Odin's grief should be excruciating to see, especially considering the thoughts going through his head, like whether or not he should have left Loki to freeze to death as a baby. Oh I am hoping that my assumptions are correct because the drama level would be off the scale.

I'm 101% sure that "Moral Sacrifice" applies to the hero, not the villain. It will have nothing to do with Loki's story arc, and everything to do with Thor's.

Make no mistake: any "redemption" Loki displays in this movie will be purely for show, to weasel out of whatever punishment Odin inflicts upon him for his many, many, many crimes of genocide, slavery, and treason.

[Nimloth]

I'm 101% sure that "Moral Sacrifice" applies to the hero, not the villain

agree, that's simply to much attention, the movie called Thor after all.

Make no mistake: any "redemption" Loki displays in this movie will be purely for show, to weasel out of whatever punishment Odin inflicts upon him for his many, many, many crimes of genocide, slavery, and treason.

I'll just say if he was all evil, nobody would care about him.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I'm 101% sure that "Moral Sacrifice" applies to the hero, not the villain. It will have nothing to do with Loki's story arc, and everything to do with Thor's.

I agree with that, plus Loki's morals are highly questionable/speculative at this point so might be hard to pull off for that reason.

However, that does not mean that other characters might have to face other moral sacrifices. BUt the big one will be Thor's

Make no mistake: any "redemption" Loki displays in this movie will be purely for show, to weasel out of whatever punishment Odin inflicts upon him for his many, many, many crimes of genocide, slavery, and treason.

I'm just curious, how many Frost Giants do you suppose Thor killed when he went to Jotunheim and started gleefully killing them? I lost count when he brought down the lightning to cause a crack in the ice and they were all running away and falling into the resulting chasm. How many Jotun young do you suppose might have fallen into that chasm? And other innocent spectators curious about what these terrible Asgardian's looked like and were simply bystanders. Could easily have killed his friends and brother there too. Sure. They are all a lot stronger than humans, but going into their lair with the intention to subjugate them by intimidation and brute force is really not at all far from what Loki did in Avengers. Not at all.

THOR: March into Jotunheim as you once did, teach them a lesson, break their spirits so they'll never dare try to cross our borders again! (subjugation through brutality and fear)

(when Odin arrives just in time on Jotunheim)
THOR: Father! We'll finish them together! (Hm. Sounds kind of like he has genocide on his mind there to me )

Back on the bifrost
Thor: The Jotuns must learn to fear me, just as they once feared you. (once again, subjugation through brutality and fear)

Odin: You are a vain, greedy, cruel boy! (sound like he's describing someone else we know circa Avengers?)... you are unworthy of the loved ones you have betrayed. (betrayal = treason, so what Thor did going down there and violating the truce and starting a war, was a form of treason in Odin's eye )

LOKI: What is this new found love for the Frost Giants? You, who would have killed them all with your bare hands. (Genocide)

And we must not forget Kid Thor's: When I'm king, I'll hunt the monsters down and slay them all! Just as you did father. (again, already thinking about committing genocide on the frost giants, and so young. )

And Thor has this type of behavior in his personality for 1000 years? How many innocent bystanders likely died due to his hot headed warring ways? How many wars were started because of his hot uncontrollable temper that didnt need to be started. This was clearly his personality for 1000 years, whereas Loki's was as we saw it at the beginning of Thor 1, for 1000 years. So whose personality do you suppose is more likely to be set in stone as nasty and vicious and warlike after all that time? Hm?

THOR: I've changed.

LOKI: So have I.

I could write a whole long thing about Black Widow in regards to this change from bad to good as well, but my point is hopefully coming across without it.

And...hey, for the record I really like Thor, I really like Black Widow, I have no problem that they are good guys, and they changed. But when people come in and say that Loki is not allowed to change or be redeemed ever after what he's done, I scratch my head. It's a double standard which I can't understand. Thor and Black Widow changed and are now acting as good guys, yet have (probably) done things just as bad if not worse and for a MUCH longer length of time, and people seem to have zero problem with them being "redeemed".

This is not real life, this is a fantasy superhero movie, this is fairy tales, where there is always a chance for the bad guy to see the error of his ways. Because people always want to have hope that this can happen, and that there is good in everyone. Now in the context of real life the "bad guy" will probably not be redeemed or change, which is why we have prisons and the death penalty (which I am oddly enough in support of). But again, this is a fantasy fairy tale story, for our entertainment and wonder, and here there is always a chance for the bad guy to redeem himself or change his ways at least, just as Thor and Black Widow were allowed to do.

You may want to check out a few pages back when I talk about Anakin Skywalker's redemption at length. Darth Vader certainly committed some genocide and treason leading up to that, and I dont think anyone had a problem with him redeeming himself in the end. The trilogy would not have been the same without it.