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Old 07-30-2012, 11:28 AM   #26
White_widow
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Default Re: Web shooter: possible?

This is just an example of a bungee cord extruding apparatus. It says that the average width of the the bungee cord can be anywhere from the thickness of a pencil, or the thickness of three pencils. That's about what peter's webbing was. The difference is that bungee cords don't contain the reinforcement because they want so much stretch. Since we don't need as much, this will work great for us.



does that look familar to the examples up there?


One final problem that I won't be able to solve quite yet is how to mix the ingredients in a way that they are evenly distributed. I believe that to do this, you must mix them all in powdered form, heat it so the rubber will bond to everything, let it solidify, and then add the solvent.

In the case of plastic steel, and the artificial webbing using polyurethane, they mixed materials by solvent control. That might be something to look into.


http://www.sciencecodex.com/u_m_rese...el_transparent


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0119115103.htm

Anyway, now that I've gotten all of the basic research that you guys need in there, I open this forum to you.


Last edited by White_widow; 07-30-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: Web shooter: possible?

I know I posted this on all the other web shooter forums but when your done making these can I please buy a pair....PLEASE!!!!!

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Old 08-01-2012, 11:17 PM   #28
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Im with you bro. I read all of you forums for the last 2 days straight. Nice ideas. Keep it up.

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Old 08-04-2012, 01:00 AM   #29
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In The Amazing Spiderman the latest Film the webshooter is small and the web cartridge is about the size if a cars auto start, I dont think in real life it would be that small. However if we can use more than one polymer resins for stickiness, you said acetone, I apologize if I miss spelled it my glasses are broke. However acetone for the trying part, you may consider more water if possible because it looks like in the movie when he presses the button from the high pressure when it hits the air it starts rapid solidification. Sorry if long but I love Science

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Old 08-10-2012, 02:55 PM   #30
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This forum is sadly no longer populated

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Old 08-11-2012, 12:38 PM   #31
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Default Re: Web shooter: possible?

how has a web shooter?

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Old 08-14-2012, 01:16 PM   #32
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Have you made a prototype already?

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Old 08-23-2012, 10:08 PM   #33
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Hey guys, i just wanted to say could we (just a thought), could impact webbing be created? Maybe some type of webbing the explodes on contact. just a suggestion

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Old 10-06-2012, 10:15 AM   #34
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that would kill

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Old 10-19-2012, 01:02 AM   #35
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just joined but what is the formula?


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Old 10-28-2012, 06:02 PM   #36
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Default Re: Web shooter: possible?

I'm new here. And I was thinking... Fr those who have seen the new spiderman movie, you know when he catches the car thief he shoots the webs and they spray everywhere, I'm not very good at this cuz I'm just a freshman. But is there a chance you could use a small spud gun and have your web formula spray everywhere like in that scene??? Just a question but cuz I don't really know.

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Old 11-10-2012, 01:37 AM   #37
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Hello, I'm new here. Well not exactly. I've been following white widow's posts for a while. What's up? Any updates?

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Old 11-10-2012, 06:57 PM   #38
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Default Re: Web shooter: possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeterParker View Post
Hello, I'm new here. Well not exactly. I've been following white widow's posts for a while. What's up? Any updates?
Hello!
If you go to the Spider-Man products forum, you'll see that we are working full force on this project. Feel free to join us there and at realwebtech.webs.com .

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Old 11-18-2012, 08:49 PM   #39
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I am like the ultimate spidey fan and white widow, your theory is amazing. In the movie he used something inside a watch and other stuff but there are millions of ways to make them. You're obviously on the right track. I have made webbing and am currently shooting it out of a bottle but to make shooters, I'm using a pressure plate, and I need to find out how to bundle this stuff into something smaller too.

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Old 11-25-2012, 09:11 AM   #40
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Default Re: Web shooter: possible?

Hi all. I'm new here, i searched page like this and this page is great =) You have good ideas. If i have any bug, i'm sorry. I'm not from USA.

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Old 11-25-2012, 12:23 PM   #41
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Default Re: Web shooter: possible?

Hey guys!
White_widow's work, and the work of several others on this project, its being continually catalogued in the Products section of the Spider-Man forums here.
Web Formula Page
Web Shooter Construction Page
Spider-Man Products Forum
Look forward to seeing you!

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Old 11-25-2012, 06:13 PM   #42
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Since I am fairly close to getting my shooter all done, I thought I might as well show some of my research periodically.
Here's what I believe is possible:
•a kid can make a web shooter
•a strong polymer can be made by a kid
•you need a fair amount of pressure to extrude
•you do not need a spinnerette, technically
•the shooter can be reasonably compact
•with the correct formula, one could theoretically swing from the formula
•several technologies need to be implemented to complete the device
•"web shooter" is a misnomer (it is a rapid polymer extrusion device. WW came up with "S.P.I.D.E.R.", Strong Polymer Is Drawn/Extruded Rapidly)

Now, here is what I don't believe:
I do not believe that:
•the process will be easy
•one can make this shooter without any implementable knowledge on the subject
•a kid can get the resources to make a formula exceeding a tensile strength of somewhere around 300MPa without help from someone else
•the shooter will be small enough to wear under clothing without highly experimental, highly theoretical, or impossible technology
•electricity can be not implemented in any way for the shooter to work
•the web shooter will not be considered a weapon
•you can "become Spider-Man" just with the shooter
•the polymer will be as strong as Spidey's is in the comics
•having some misfire-prevention system is not needed

There may be others in both categories, but I haven't enough room to put them here.


Last edited by Wadaltmon; 11-26-2012 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:34 PM   #43
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Let's focus on the shooter itself. Not the canister, not the formula, but just the shooter. What you need for a working shooter is:
•trigger
•actuator
•fluid output
•port for putting in fluid canisters

Now, let's look at the trigger. In the trigger, you need user input, and a trigger recognizing mechanism. In my shooter, the trigger is a simple SPST pushbutton, and the recognizing mechanism is a microcontroller. The microcontroller contains the "Safety Algorithm", which is basically just a program I thought up which makes it so you have to push the button twice in rapid succession, and while the second tap is held, the web shooter shoots. This is just like how the shooter works in the comics! White_widow simply had a lever which opened a bendable helium valve. His trigger was a lot simpler than mine.

Now, for the actuator, we basically need to know how the web is actuated from user input to shooting the web. A typical shooter process goes as follows:
user input -> secondary indirect process -> primary indirect process -> direct process -> end result

In a typical web shooter case, we should have something like:
trigger -> trigger interpretation -> output channel is opened -> canister is opened -> web shoots out

My first web shooter design that I had on this site worked by having a motor, activated by a button trigger, which has a little catch on it. It caught onto a spring-loaded valve like on a Windex sprayer and opened the valve, thus causing the pressurized fluid inside to shoot out. Here, the process would be:
button trigger -> motor turns -> motor catches onto valve to open it -> valve is opened -> web shoots out

My current design is as follows:
double tap on button -> Microcontroller interprets input and sends out signal -> solenoid valve is opened -> back CO2 pressure on formula pushes formula forward -> web shoots out

The actuator is the thing that does the primary indirect process. In the first generic example, it was the canister getting opened: whatever opened the canister was the actuator. The actuator was a motor in my first web shooter design, since it opened the canister which was the direct process. That which causes the direct process is the actuator. The signal sent to the solenoid in my current design is the actuator. Get it?

Next post explains fluid output chambers and channels.

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Old 11-25-2012, 07:18 PM   #44
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There are many components needed for a good fluid outuput valve, but some actually depend on your formula and pressure. A regular output channel consists of:
•tube
•heating coil
•fluid sculptor (optional)
•adjustability function (optional)

The tube really has no requirements that are special on it, only that it has to withstand the pressure of your fluid, has to conduct heat well, and is probably for the most part stick-resistant.

Then comes the heating coil. This, too, is not exactly too complicated. However, it does depend on your formula and needs. As I will explain when I am elaborating on the formula, one will need to get the coil to a high enough temperature that it will evaporate the solvent used for your formula (I believe W_W told about what the solvent was). How hot you need to get it will determine how long the coil needs to be, how much current and voltage you need, and what material the coil needs to be. I am using acetone as my solvent, and a nickel-coated metal coil (I can't remember the core coil metal... copper, maybe?). Acetone evaporates incredibly quickly, but we want it to be instant, which is why I am adding the heating coil.

The next thing is a fluid sculptor. I added optional here because you don't really need one; you can just have your fluid shoot out as a sticky liquid or gel, but it probably won't be very strong or shoot as far as you want. This is why we use a fluid sculptor, the most common of which being a spinnerette mechanism. It pulls the web into several small strands and combines them to make them stronger. This is usually made out of metal, or out of a sturdy material if you don't want to make it terribly adjustable.

The next part, adjustability, kind of factors into the fluid sculptor. An adjustability function will allow your polymer to be extruded in several different shapes, such as a line, wide spray, or simple adhesive gel which is shot out. The spinnerette helps us with this, but think: a rope is much stronger than a lot of strings simply bundled side by side, right? And the most commonly wanted shape for a web extrusion is a line, right? So, we use a mechanism I made up called a lining cone. This works kind of like the barrel of a gun: it has several grooves spiraling along its length, which pull onto the little strands of fluid and twist them together like a rope. This allows for a strong line to be made. Also, I made my spinerette out of rubber, which allows it to be pushed down or stretch slightly with the fluid, which makes it a lot more versatile; this also makes it less likely to weaken with stress, meaning it will last longer.

There really isn't too much to explain about the fluid canister input port. It is just an opening for the insertion of the canister. You just have to make sure that it doesn't leak, and can handle the pressure and size of your canister. It may be beneficial to use a coupler to screw your canister into your output regulator (like a solenoid or helium valve).

That's really all I have to say now about the shooter mechanism itself. I call mine the WDM, the Web Drawing Mechanism. I am currently working on WDM2.1, which is shown at realwebtech.webs.com in my photo album.

If you want to see the progress on this project, or ask questions, or request more information, feel free to PM me or go to the links in the third post above this one.

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Old 11-25-2012, 11:48 PM   #45
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The next thing we want to look at is the canister, or pressure vessel. It is a fairly easy concept to understand, we just need to look at some things:
•pressure
•openings
•ratings
•GPM (2)

The first thing we need to understand is pressure, and also, what's called equilibrium. If we have some sealed container that has a different amount of pressure than the atmosphere around it, then something has to happen for it to reach equilibrium with the atmosphere. That's just how nature works. So, if we have a container with less pressure than the atmosphere, then some of the atmosphere moves into the container when it is opened. If we have a container with more pressure than the atmosphere, then some of the ambiance in the container has to move into the atmosphere for there to be equilibrium, a state where the atmospheric pressure and the pressure within the container are the same. This is the principle that GPM, GPM2 (which I will elaborate on later), and basically the whole concept of the pressure vessel works off of. Let's take a look at the openings first.

The openings have to be large enough to push out enough polymer to meet your demands. Keep in mind that the size of the opening from which the polymer escapes the pressure vessel is inversely proportional to the amount of pressure. This means that as the size of the opening goes up, the amount of pressure you'll need to push out a certain amount of polymer goes down; also, as the size of the opening goes down, the amount of pressure you'll need goes up. The opening on my shooter is around 1mm in diameter, which means that I'm going to need a lot of pressure to push out the polymer; that's where GPM (specifically, GPM2) comes in. However, let's talk about ratings first.

When you look at a material to make your pressure vessel out of, or are going to buy a pressure vessel, you need to make sure that it can handle the amount of pressure you are looking at. PVC is always a good start, because it is made to handle a lot of pressure, comes in a lot of sizes, and is easy to make add-ons and couplers for. I am using a Binaca canister, which holds a lot of pressure, and has a spring loaded valve on top.


Anyway, if you have a canister, research what it is made out of, and its thickness. Then go onto Wikipedia and look up its pressure rating or tensile strength. If it's lower than the amount of pressure you're using, it's time to find a better canister.

Next posts cover GPM, and GPM2. Those posts are going to be filled with pictures, I can tell you that now... I can't explain GPM without them.

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Old 11-25-2012, 11:53 PM   #46
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GPM

So, I'm going to explain GPM here. What does GPM stand for?

Yes, GPM stands for Gas Piston Mechanism. Now, what exactly does that mean?

Say you have a simple canister.

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Old 11-25-2012, 11:59 PM   #47
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You somehow manage to fill that canister with fluid.



You then apply some pressure into this container.



However, the pressure is floating around the fluid, not putting pressure on it. So no matter how you turn the canister, it will never actually push out the polymer.



So, let's do what they do in glasses cleaner bottles and aerosol cans: add a straw into the container which is connected to the opening.


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Old 11-26-2012, 12:05 AM   #48
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You then put in fluid and apply pressure. Now, when you apply pressure into a canister, but do not have another source constantly applying pressure, that is called a self-pressurized container.



Now, remember what I said about equilibrium? The pressure has to escape. But in order for it to escape, it has to push the fluid up the straw and out, like an aerosol can.



However, what happens if you turn an aerosol can upside down? Nothing comes out, right? Why?



Since the fluid is no longer right next to the straw, the pressure can escape without having to push the fluid out. The straw system will only work if you always have the canister upright... and since we have our shooters on our wrists, that won't exactly work all the time.

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:24 AM   #49
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So what kind of system will allow the polymer to come out of the canister, no matter the shooter's position or orientation?

Well, first, think about this analogy...
Imagine you have a tube with a ball in it. The tube is only incredibly slightly larger in diameter than the spherical ball. Now, imagine that you can blow up the tube onto that ball as hard as you can. What will happen as long as you keep blowing on the bottom of the ball, assuming the ball is really light and you blow hard enough? It will stay suspended, right? That is what GPM basically is.
I got the idea for GPM when spideyfan1995 pointed out that the original self-pressurized canister wouldn't work. I then saw that I needed to come up with a system that would apply constant directional pressure. You'll see when I show the pictures.

So, we take a normal canister without a straw.



We then turn it upside-down so that if we open the valve, the fluid would spill out simply because of gravity.



We then drill a hole in the bottom of the canister, and add a needle in that hole that's strong enough to puncture the seal of a CO2 canister, and get ourselves a CO2 canister.



Then, we puncture the CO2 with the needle and allow the pressure to flow in. This way, the pressure will be pushing the fluid toward the valve, so if we opened the valve now, the polymer would come out with some force.



Now, remember the ball example? Imagine the tube the ball is in is closed, and you blow hard enough to get the ball to the end of the tube. You keep blowing, and since you are blowing hard enough, no matter which way you turn the tube, it will stay at the top. Just like GPM, the pressure from the CO2 will continue to push the fluid toward the valve, since it is continually applied at a lot of force (enough to go against gravity, like you blowing on the ball!) in 1 direction.



Now, since there needs to be equilibrium, the valve is opened and the fluid has to be pushed out for the pressure to escape.



That's GPM. It's fairly simple, really. The GAS works like a PISTON to push the fluid upward, and this MECHANISM will allow the fluid to shoot no matter its orientation in space.

GPM2 works the same way, except that GPM2 uses couplers (on the bottom of the canister and on the top of the CO2 canister) to make sure there is no leaking. Also, the puncture needle for the CO2 is braced with 4 pylons within the coupler on the bottom of the fluid canister, which gives it extra strength and makes sure it doesn't bend when the CO2 is being punctured.

I'll elaborate on my formula and get out a bit more theory for you guys tomorrow, or some time later.


Last edited by Wadaltmon; 11-26-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:13 AM   #50
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Another thing I forgot to add about GPM is that I haven't tested it yet. See, this is completely theoretical. A great thing about the WDM2 and WDM2.1 designs is that the coupler system allows for a tank to be used.

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