Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by godisawesome

Hmm. Just been reading up on some of the ideas and opinions here, and I was thinking of a way you could spin some of this movies events in reverse from the first for maximum irony:

So we know that all the Asgardians are stuck on Asgard and bad stuff goes down. Their hegemony being challenged, many of the Asgardians close ranks, possibly even insisting that Loki be slain for his previous treachery or blaming Thor for his "reckless" actions. Odin tries to enforce Asgard's protective doctrine across the nine realms, which spreads the Asgardians thin and allows the Dark Elves to begin moving directly against Asgard (for all we know, they're the first to actually go after the Asgardians-even the Frost Giants only engaged in war after their sperate expansion plans were thwarted,).

Odin grows weaker by the day, while Thor plays champion to the forces of Asgard. Eventually, Odin calls Jane Foster to Asgard for some reason, reuniting with Thor for a while and making her the fish-out-of-water for a while. However, the ensuing conflict threatens to leave Earth abandoned, something Thor will not allow-not just because it is Jane's home, but because he knows that Earth plays a large role in future events thanks to the Avengers.

Under pressure from more jingoistic Asgardians to leave Earth to it's fate, Odin officially abandons Earth, But Thor makes aprincipled stand to defend Midgard. As all heck breaks loose, Asgard comes under direct attack but Thor and Odin realise that Earth is the actual prime jewel. They decide they must defend Earth and Asgard seperately, with Thor being Midgard's new champion. But they have no dark matter.

Enter Loki, who has no problem with the idea of sending Thor on a one-way suicide attack way the heck away from Asgard.

Loki uses his knowledge to get Thor to arrive on Earth just in time for the final battle, wins, but is now again exiled from his home and apart from his love-this time because of his own wisdom and honor.

Ha! That *would* be ironic!

I especially like the political aspects you describe. The other realms resenting Asgard, and the Asgardians resenting their two princes for different reasons.

It will be a very lonely outcome for Jane, since probably most of the Asgardians will look down on her.

[elizah72]

Little something I caught off of tumblr again (and yes take with a grain of salt, but probably true.)

Friend spoke to an extra on the set of Thor 2, who was in “the cell next to Loki in the prison scene”.

So I don’t know if that’s news that he’s in prison

But he’s in prison

http://miriamjoyblogs.tumblr.com/

Duh. Yeah, I know, of course he is. but I was imagining him in solitary confinement or even where the Destroyer was kept. Not expecting he'd be in a regular prison. Wonder if we'll see any other well known Asgardian baddies in there for a cameo?

This all makes the "so I'm just another stolen relic locked up until you might have use of me" all the more sad.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Little something I caught off of tumblr again (and yes take with a grain of salt, but probably true.)



Duh. Yeah, I know, of course he is. but I was imagining him in solitary confinement or even where the Destroyer was kept. Not expecting he'd be in a regular prison. Wonder if we'll see any other well known Asgardian baddies in there for a cameo?

This all makes the "so I'm just another stolen relic locked up until you might have use of me" all the more sad.

I think they may want to keep Loki somewhere removed from the palace (the Destroyer was adjacent to Odin's vault).

You're right; it is evocative of the stolen relic comment.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Yeah, really. In the book, they encounter a troll, and the kids handle it. But it would be better for Frigga to handle it.

And actually, if she is somewhat removed from the rest of Asgard, that might explain why Odin was not able to meet whatever threat it is that kills her.

Entirely possible. Or there is just too much going on in the fight.

OR, as you said about the prison being removed from the palace maybe. Maybe she's visiting Loki there, and leaving when she runs into an attack on her way back. That would upset Loki, I'd think. And still I hope she goes down fighting. That attack could be some of the Bourne woods stuff, I suppose, since it would make sense the prison might be on the outskirts and she'd have to travel to go see him. And then Thor fights, thinks they've won and pushed the attackers back, only to find Frigga among the dead.

I just looked back at the Lawden spoilers actually and he says the Dark Elves attack Asgard (although those Bourne Woods guys are certainly not Dark Elves, making me suspicious that Mr. Lawden was making some incorrect assumptions ) and then he goes on to say during the Asgardian attack Frigga is killed. So maybe both Hela's army and the dark elves do attack all around Asgard at once in the beginning, and the above scenario happens for Frigga before Odin can put up the forcefield or whatever plot device to keep them at bay for a while.

I feel there is a theme of the relative positions of the realms shifting, becoming on more equal footing. The light elves may well believe in acting in the service of the good, but not being able to self-govern I think would be a grievance. (But they would be very polite about it)

well we dont know what they'll do in MCU, I would think that would mean introducing Freyr and Freya, and they wouldnt necessarily do that. Although you could make them part of the Vanir, since they were originally from Vanaheim. And maybe that's who the Light Elves align with.

Maybe in an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of way.

True. Although I see a lot of large frost giant sized puddles in the future. LOL

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by godisawesome

Hmm. Just been reading up on some of the ideas and opinions here, and I was thinking of a way you could spin some of this movies events in reverse from the first for maximum irony:

So we know that all the Asgardians are stuck on Asgard and bad stuff goes down. Their hegemony being challenged, many of the Asgardians close ranks, possibly even insisting that Loki be slain for his previous treachery or blaming Thor for his "reckless" actions. Odin tries to enforce Asgard's protective doctrine across the nine realms, which spreads the Asgardians thin and allows the Dark Elves to begin moving directly against Asgard (for all we know, they're the first to actually go after the Asgardians-even the Frost Giants only engaged in war after their sperate expansion plans were thwarted,).

Odin grows weaker by the day, while Thor plays champion to the forces of Asgard. Eventually, Odin calls Jane Foster to Asgard for some reason, reuniting with Thor for a while and making her the fish-out-of-water for a while. However, the ensuing conflict threatens to leave Earth abandoned, something Thor will not allow-not just because it is Jane's home, but because he knows that Earth plays a large role in future events thanks to the Avengers.

Under pressure from more jingoistic Asgardians to leave Earth to it's fate, Odin officially abandons Earth, But Thor makes aprincipled stand to defend Midgard. As all heck breaks loose, Asgard comes under direct attack but Thor and Odin realise that Earth is the actual prime jewel. They decide they must defend Earth and Asgard seperately, with Thor being Midgard's new champion. But they have no dark matter.

Enter Loki, who has no problem with the idea of sending Thor on a one-way suicide attack way the heck away from Asgard.

Loki uses his knowledge to get Thor to arrive on Earth just in time for the final battle, wins, but is now again exiled from his home and apart from his love-this time because of his own wisdom and honor.

Interesting ideas! good thoughts here.

[American Maid]

Surfer posted this plot outline over in the main spoilers thread. Normally I would quote only the part to which I'm responding. But for easy reference, I am quoting it in its entirety.

Originally Posted by Surfer

I agree with Big Thor on this one. Thor and Loki would have little effect on Surtur, and about the only aid they would be able to offer Odin is a possible distraction so he could get the upper hand. However, I think Odin and Surtur are close enough in power levels that a one on one battle between those two would be epic. This is the way I would like to see it.


Act 1


Thor and Loki return to Asgard.


Odin passes judgement on Loki and banishes him to muspellheim as punishment.


Malekith comes into focus as a character wanting to take over the 9 realms.


Malekith uses magic to summon and transport Surtur and the sons of Muspell(via a portal) to Alfheim, with the intention of destroying Alfheim, Vanaheim and eventually Asgard (which all reside on the same planet).


Loki learns of Malekith's intentions to destroy Asgard and returns back to Odin to warn him, not because he is necessarilly a hero but to gain good favor, so that he can return and continue his mischief in the future.


Odin Assembles the best warriors of Asgard (Thor, Loki, Heimdel, Sif, Warriors three, and I would really like to see Baulder) to ride out and meet the impending onslaught of demons before they reach Asgard.


The light Elves prove to be no match for the sons of muspell and with the destruction Surtur brings well all is lost for them, and Surtur and the Sons of Muspell continue on to Vanaheim where the battle between Asgardians and demons begins.


Act 2


In the meantime, Malekith opens a portal and invades earth with his Dark Elves including Kurse. For the purposes of this movie I see Kurse as being a evil dark elf that is extremely powerful physically (on par with Thor), but like a lot of brutes (Hulk) he take orders from a leader (which in this case would be Malekith).


Odin squares off against Surtur, while the other asgardians take on the sons of Muspel.


During the battle Heimdell becomes aware of the invasion on earth due to his all seeing eyes, and notifies Thor.


Thor, makes a conscious decision to leave the battle at Vanaheim (along with his friends and family) to honor and uphold his self inflicted obligations to protect Jane Foster and Earth.


Act 3


The battle between Surtur and Odin continues to rage on in Vanaheim, while without Thor the Sons of Muspel are making headway against the Asgardians and are advancing towards Asgard itself.


Thor meets up with Malekith, Kurse and the Dark Elves in england (where we have seen many of the set photos recently)

Malekith orders Kurse to destroy Thor and a battle insues.


In Vanaheim Odin and Surtur continue their winner take all battle of epic proportions.


And at Asgard we see the city is starting to be breached as the Asgardians only seem to be slowing them down, but not really stopping them.


On earth Malekith continues to watch on as the two combatants (Thor and Kurse) trade blow for blow, but after a while Malekith decides Kurse has failed him by not obeying his command to dispatch Thor (something he feels is unacceptable and punishable by death). So, Malekith creates an earthquake and opens up the earth floor sending both warriors falling down towards the molten core of the center of the earth. Kurse is killed during this process, but as Thor can fly he escapes the hole in the cracked earth just before Malekith closes it behind him.


In Asgard we see much destruction as it appears to be over run by demons, once again as the Asgardians seem helpless to stop them. We see much Asgardian death the most important being Frigga.


Back on Earth Thor begins to battle Malekith and it becomes an epic battle of might vs magic. After a long battle sequence between the two we see Thor emerge victorious.


Thor returns to Asgard and helps the other Asgardians turn the tide and defeat the Sons of Muspell.


Meanwhile Odin gets the upper hand in the battle with Surtur and he sends him back to Muspellheim where he belongs. Then Odin returns home to find a devastated Asgard, and much of the blame he feels belongs to Thor, where as Loki is now finding himself back in his fathers good graces.


Perhaps a cameo for Enchantress and Executioner for Thor 3 in end credits.


The end. So that is what I would like to see. I probably won't get most of it, but who knows.


Just thought I would throw it out there. Lol


Surfer

Wow, this is really great! You've thought a lot of detail out. I tried working out a revision to the end of Elizah's outline and found that it's not so easy to work out a lot of subsidiary details. So kudos to you for working so much in.

Odin banishes Loki to Muspelheim? I don't know much about that realm, but it strikes me as pretty severe. Of course, Loki has committed some serious crimes, and Odin has not thus far shown himself to be the coddling kind of father when it comes to discipline.

I'm interested in how you have Malekith have Surtur target Alfheim first. Perhaps the light and dark elves have bad blood between them, or maybe they have long been rivals and Malekitih figures it would be useful to take them out first. I'm not certain how you'd stage it off the top of my head, but a fun angle in my mind would be to have Surtur manipulating Malekith and Malekith manipulating Surtur, each thinking he is the one with the upper hand. Of course, Surtur is far more powerful than Malekith, but Malekith would not be the first ambitious leader to think he has more control than he actually has.

I'm not certain Alfheim, Vanaheim, and Asgard are all on the same planet in the regular Marvel setup, but that does solve one of the big logistical hassles of this film, that of transporting everyone here and there without the Bifrost.

I'm curious as to why you don't show Algrim's transformation to Kurse. I suppose there's a lot going on in the movie, though you miss an opportunity to show a somewhat different motivation (revenge) than just being a brute-muscle guy for the dark elves. Now, you do use a similar element of Malekith sending Thor and his opponent down to the molten lava. So you possibly still could have this transformation, start with Algrim, go to the pit of lava, and then Kurse. You'd need to add a mechanism for his transformation in that event.

One of the strengths of this outline is how many battle sequences there are. I think that will be reflected in the film, even if it's not this exact way. Another strength is showing just how hard Asgard has been hit. As I've said before, I see one of the currents in this film (and to a lessere extent, the Avengers line) is the balance of power shifting among worlds. Asgardian prominence isn't what it used to be. That's going to be very hard for them to process (but that's material for a future film)

I have the impression that Thor doesn't do as well against magic as he does against other forms of attacks (as Elizah and I have been touching on, he seems to be vulnerable to illusions, for example). So Thor may need some help. Perhaps Loki can go over there. Loki would probably like the idea of Thor owing him big time

And I also like how you take it to a place we have been discussing, where the Asgardians feel like Thor has deserted them. Interestingly, you have Odin survive. Do you anticipate him dying in Thor3? Or will the franchise end with him remaining king?

Thanks for sharing it!

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Little something I caught off of tumblr again (and yes take with a grain of salt, but probably true.)



Duh. Yeah, I know, of course he is. but I was imagining him in solitary confinement or even where the Destroyer was kept. Not expecting he'd be in a regular prison. Wonder if we'll see any other well known Asgardian baddies in there for a cameo?

This all makes the "so I'm just another stolen relic locked up until you might have use of me" all the more sad.

The prison is probably just a holding cell while Loki awaits trial; *not* a final incarceration after sentencing. I'm sure his actual sentence will be the canonical banishment to eternal torture.

Originally Posted by elizah72

Entirely possible. Or there is just too much going on in the fight.

OR, as you said about the prison being removed from the palace maybe. Maybe she's visiting Loki there, and leaving when she runs into an attack on her way back. That would upset Loki, I'd think. And still I hope she goes down fighting. That attack could be some of the Bourne woods stuff, I suppose, since it would make sense the prison might be on the outskirts and she'd have to travel to go see him. And then Thor fights, thinks they've won and pushed the attackers back, only to find Frigga among the dead.

I just looked back at the Lawden spoilers actually and he says the Dark Elves attack Asgard (although those Bourne Woods guys are certainly not Dark Elves, making me suspicious that Mr. Lawden was making some incorrect assumptions ) and then he goes on to say during the Asgardian attack Frigga is killed. So maybe both Hela's army and the dark elves do attack all around Asgard at once in the beginning, and the above scenario happens for Frigga before Odin can put up the forcefield or whatever plot device to keep them at bay for a while.



well we dont know what they'll do in MCU, I would think that would mean introducing Freyr and Freya, and they wouldnt necessarily do that. Although you could make them part of the Vanir, since they were originally from Vanaheim. And maybe that's who the Light Elves align with.



True. Although I see a lot of large frost giant sized puddles in the future. LOL

Why would Hela be attacking Asgard? Those Marauders are clearly just a mercenary army gathered from races all across the universe and apparently even the timestream. I'm 90% sure they're in the employ of Thanos and are there to make good on the threats to Loki in Avengers ("If you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon, no crevice where he can't find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain").

All these Vanir and Light Elves and Frost Giants and Hela and Freya and Karnilla and all those characters that you guys are speculating on are bloating the script into something that would be unmanageable on film. If Marvel was in the business of making 3-hour Lawrence of Arabia epics, I could get behind this; but it's clear that they're sticking with basic 2-hour(ish) screenwriting, so you're most likely not going to get much more villainy beyond Malekith and Kurse's Dark Elves, Thanos' Marauders, and probably Surtur's Fire Demons.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

The prison is probably just a holding cell while Loki awaits trial; *not* a final incarceration after sentencing. I'm sure his actual sentence will be the canonical banishment to eternal torture.

Comics or Myth Odin would do that, yes probably. MCU Odin, no. Absolutely not. I vehemently disagree with you on that. If you think that then you completely missed the relationship that was set in place as far as Odin's feelings towards both his sons in the first movie. Thor was not going to torture Loki for Nick Fury to get information out of him about the Tesseract, and Odin will certainly not be sentencing Loki to torture either. Prison, banishment, removal of powers yes any or all of those. Not torture.

if we ever get that iconic Loki snake cave eternal torture scene in MCU, and we may, it's going to be someone else that does that to him, possibly Thanos.

Why would Hela be attacking Asgard?

Because she wants more power and to expand her kingdom? That's in the comics, isn't it?

Also, the thing Tom said about "for all intents and purposes Hell breaks loose" that would tend to point towards Hela's army breaking loose, wouldn't it? If he's trying to give something away without giving everything away. HOWEVER. I can see, now that I think about it, that it could only mean Surtur and his army (Fire is hellish) hitting Asgard as well as the Dark Elves. So that could be another possibility too. Although I think we'll still see Hela at least in a cameo.

Those Marauders are clearly just a mercenary army gathered from races all across the universe and apparently even the timestream. I'm 90% sure they're in the employ of Thanos and are there to make good on the threats to Loki in Avengers ("If you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon, no crevice where he can't find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain").

Again some may question why he'd go to so much trouble just for Loki, when he probably is more interested in "courting death" and what Earth may have to offer. At least that's what I was told when I suggested a while back that the after credit scene might have Thanos, or an agent of Thanos, grab Loki to set up for Avengers 2.

I dont know, we're all just speculating. Like I said if anyone wants to come of with their own treatment for what they think will happen, and fit everything in, have at it.

For instance IF what you say is the case, and these guys are employed by Thanos to get to Loki in his prison on the outskirts, and Frigga dies during the battle maybe, and Thor has to fight them off. Well that *could* work for those Bourne scenes however, *that* would seem to be bloating the script with an unnecessary villains attacking. The writers could certainly come up with a much more subtle and less expensive way for Thanos' people to get their hands on Loki, if he really wanted to punish him right away. Wouldn't you think?

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

All these Vanir and Light Elves and Frost Giants and Hela and Freya and Karnilla and all those characters that you guys are speculating on are bloating the script into something that would be unmanageable on film.

Originally Posted by elizah72

For instance IF what you say is the case, and these guys are employed by Thanos to get to Loki in his prison on the outskirts, and Frigga dies during the battle maybe, and Thor has to fight them off. Well that *could* work for those Bourne scenes however, *that* would seem to be bloating the script with an unnecessary villains attacking.

I agree that movies need to be parsimonious. And yet, the dudes at Bourne Woods clearly are not dark elves. So there must be some other elements at work. It's captivating to wonder what they could be.

If they are trying to convey that the whole of the nine realms in unrest, they will need to do it with visual shorthand for the very reason CherokeeSam raises. So we'll probably only get a tidbit in the actual movie because they have to move along.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Comics or Myth Odin would do that, yes probably. MCU Odin, no. Absolutely not. I vehemently disagree with you on that. If you think that then you completely missed the relationship that was set in place as far as Odin's feelings towards both his sons in the first movie. Thor was not going to torture Loki for Nick Fury to get information out of him about the Tesseract, and Odin will certainly not be sentencing Loki to torture either. Prison, banishment, removal of powers yes any or all of those. Not torture.

I'd say Odin's feelings towards Loki might have changed by the end of Thor 1. Yes, when the movie began, he still loved Loki and probably was burdened with guilt; but now that he knows that Loki usurped his throne, manipulated a new war with the Frost Giants, destroyed Bifrost, and tried happily to murder him, I'd say his warm and fuzzy towards the bastard child have dimmed somewhat.

Again some may question why he'd go to so much trouble just for Loki, when he probably is more interested in "courting death" and what Earth may have to offer. At least that's what I was told when I suggested a while back that the after credit scene might have Thanos, or an agent of Thanos, grab Loki to set up for Avengers 2.

For instance IF what you say is the case, and these guys are employed by Thanos to get to Loki in his prison on the outskirts, and Frigga dies during the battle maybe, and Thor has to fight them off. Well that *could* work for those Bourne scenes however, *that* would seem to be bloating the script with an unnecessary villains attacking. The writers could certainly come up with a much more subtle and less expensive way for Thanos' people to get their hands on Loki, if he really wanted to punish him right away. Wouldn't you think?

I think Thanos is after the Infinity Gauntlet in Odin's Treasury, pure and simple. I believe he uses a massive assault by mercenary marauders as a calculated diversion to draw the greatest Asgardian warriors (Thor, Heimdall, Sif, The Warriors Three, maybe Loki) away from Asgard City, and then it's easy pickin's. Getting revenge on Loki is just a pretense; he really doesn't care about Loki at all, and most likely knew Loki would fail in Avengers anyway. In fact, I'd say he *counted* on it, so that the Tesseract would wind up in Asgard --- right where Thanos wants it. Now he's got a backdoor into Asgard.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Surfer
This is the way I would like to see it...
<removed summary due to length>

Good job! nice detailed summary! Lots going on there. My only issue is the Odin banishing Loki to Muspelheim. Again this falls under my reply above to cherokeesam as something up to par with the torture of Loki and something MCU Odin will simply NOT do. Comics/Myth Odin maybe, but not MCU Odin. And it's not really necessary for him to learn this and tell Odin in your scenario. And we know from previous strong rumors/spoilers from Lawden that Loki will be visited by Thor in prison to make up and try to get him to help him get to the "dark world" for reinforcements. So if that is correct, then that doesn't fit in with your piece. Plus I believe Renee Russo is fully expecting to have some time with Frigga and Loki with her trying to straighten him out, one assumes while he's in prison awaiting a decision or as he's being punished.

Originally Posted by American Maid

Wow, this is really great! You've thought a lot of detail out. I tried working out a revision to the end of Elizah's outline and found that it's not so easy to work out a lot of subsidiary details.

No. Indeed. It is NOT.

I'm not certain Alfheim, Vanaheim, and Asgard are all on the same planet in the regular Marvel setup, but that does solve one of the big logistical hassles of this film, that of transporting everyone here and there without the Bifrost.

It sort of looks like they are not in MCU, but the previous pictures (like the one shown in the screenrant link in one of my posts above) of the 9 realms seem to indicate they are all on the same asteroid. So...

So you possibly still could have this transformation, start with Algrim, go to the pit of lava, and then Kurse. You'd need to add a mechanism for his transformation in that event.

one of the vids of Malekith from last week with his arms up there was a lot of red lighting, and I'm thinking that may be him opening up a lava pit for Thor and Kurse.

So Thor may need some help. Perhaps Loki can go over there. Loki would probably like the idea of Thor owing him big time

I would so love a Malekith Loki fight but now it's not looking like it. Unless Tom shows up this week, that is. LOL (the again, my summary probably gets blown out of the water!)

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I'd say Odin's feelings towards Loki might have changed by the end of Thor 1. Yes, when the movie began, he still loved Loki and probably was burdened with guilt; but now that he knows that Loki usurped his throne, manipulated a new war with the Frost Giants, destroyed Bifrost, and tried happily to murder him, I'd say his warm and fuzzy towards the bastard child have dimmed somewhat.

See, it's things like this that make me wonder if people are watching a completely different movie than I did.

Thor started the war with the Frost Giants. Thor did that because Thor wanted to break some heads and "crush their spirits" so they would "fear" them. To Thor at that point, fear was power and fear was respect, much like Loki feels in Avengers. And not only that, Thor goes to Jotunheim and gleefully starts fighting them just for the thrill of a fight. How many do you suppose he killed unnecessarily when he could have just walked away or not gone down there at all? Hmmm? Not the same as trying to bully the humans, no... but still NOT GOOD THOR.

Thor destroyed the Bifrost (to stop Loki, true, but Thor still did have responsibility for that as well)

Loki did NOT usurp Odin's throne, Odin was in Odinsleep, and Thor was banished, and apparently Frigga was not going to leave Odin's side, so the throne was GIVEN to Loki for that time. (and watch the deleted scene on this sometime, for that matter, and explain to me how he usurped Odin's throne with that scene in mind. He seemed as surprised hell. Not that that's canon, I'm just saying... )

And for heavens sake, Loki did NOT try "happily" to murder Odin. He set up Laufey so he could prove to Odin that he was the worthy son by killing Laufey in front of him, and then getting rid of the frost giants. He tried to kill Thor and friends, yes. But Odin. NO. *shakes head* If he wanted Odin dead he could have killed him in the vault with no witnesses, or let Laufey kill him before he took out Laufey but he didnt want Odin dead. He wanted to prove himself to Odin, and he wanted Odin to stay alive.

as for Odin's feelings yes, he may have changed some, but I think the look on his face prior to Loki letting go, and his response afterwards, tells you that Odin was heartbroken and blamed himself for Loki's behavior, as any caring parent would do when faced with a child that is so troubled and committed such crimes. Anyway, to get back on topic, I fully expect that feeling to carry over into Thor 2.

I think Thanos is after the Infinity Gauntlet in Odin's Treasury, pure and simple. I believe he uses a massive assault by mercenary marauders as a calculated diversion to draw the greatest Asgardian warriors (Thor, Heimdall, Sif, The Warriors Three, maybe Loki) away from Asgard City, and then it's easy pickin's. Getting revenge on Loki is just a pretense; he really doesn't care about Loki at all, and most likely knew Loki would fail in Avengers anyway. In fact, I'd say he *counted* on it, so that the Tesseract would wind up in Asgard --- right where Thanos wants it. Now he's got a backdoor into Asgard.

I believe Feige confirmed somewhere that Thanos would NOT be in Thor 2 (or at least not a major villain as your suggestion implies). But saved for Guardians and Avengers 2. Someone tell me if I am not remembering that correctly.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

The prison is probably just a holding cell while Loki awaits trial; *not* a final incarceration after sentencing. I'm sure his actual sentence will be the canonical banishment to eternal torture.



Why would Hela be attacking Asgard? Those Marauders are clearly just a mercenary army gathered from races all across the universe and apparently even the timestream. I'm 90% sure they're in the employ of Thanos and are there to make good on the threats to Loki in Avengers ("If you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon, no crevice where he can't find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain").

All these Vanir and Light Elves and Frost Giants and Hela and Freya and Karnilla and all those characters that you guys are speculating on are bloating the script into something that would be unmanageable on film. If Marvel was in the business of making 3-hour Lawrence of Arabia epics, I could get behind this; but it's clear that they're sticking with basic 2-hour(ish) screenwriting, so you're most likely not going to get much more villainy beyond Malekith and Kurse's Dark Elves, Thanos' Marauders, and probably Surtur's Fire Demons.

Exactly what I was thinking. It would be cool, but that is simply too much to get into in a 2 hour film

[American Maid]

Fair enough. Seems like there's not much harm in imagining what an alternate telling of the tale might look like, though.

I mean, there's
What I Think Could Happen (of varying degrees of plausibility)
What I Want to Happen
What I Think Will Happen

There's overlap among these sets, but they are not all the same. Things that don't wind up in the movie--maybe we'll see them in a book someday. It's all interesting to me.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

See, it's things like this that make me wonder if people are watching a completely different movie than I did.

Thor started the war with the Frost Giants. Thor did that because Thor wanted to break some heads and "crush their spirits" so they would "fear" them. To Thor at that point, fear was power and fear was respect, much like Loki feels in Avengers. And not only that, Thor goes to Jotunheim and gleefully starts fighting them just for the thrill of a fight. How many do you suppose he killed unnecessarily when he could have just walked away or not gone down there at all? Hmmm? Not the same as trying to bully the humans, no... but still NOT GOOD THOR.

Thor destroyed the Bifrost (to stop Loki, true, but Thor still did have responsibility for that as well)

Loki did NOT usurp Odin's throne, Odin was in Odinsleep, and Thor was banished, and apparently Frigga was not going to leave Odin's side, so the throne was GIVEN to Loki for that time. (and watch the deleted scene on this sometime, for that matter, and explain to me how he usurped Odin's throne with that scene in mind. He seemed as surprised hell. Not that that's canon, I'm just saying... )

And for heavens sake, Loki did NOT try "happily" to murder Odin. He set up Laufey so he could prove to Odin that he was the worthy son by killing Laufey in front of him, and then getting rid of the frost giants. He tried to kill Thor and friends, yes. But Odin. NO. *shakes head* If he wanted Odin dead he could have killed him in the vault with no witnesses, or let Laufey kill him before he took out Laufey but he didnt want Odin dead. He wanted to prove himself to Odin, and he wanted Odin to stay alive.

as for Odin's feelings yes, he may have changed some, but I think the look on his face prior to Loki letting go, and his response afterwards, tells you that Odin was heartbroken and blamed himself for Loki's behavior, as any caring parent would do when faced with a child that is so troubled and committed such crimes. Anyway, to get back on topic, I fully expect that feeling to carry over into Thor 2.



I believe Feige confirmed somewhere that Thanos would NOT be in Thor 2 (or at least not a major villain as your suggestion implies). But saved for Guardians and Avengers 2. Someone tell me if I am not remembering that correctly.

Maybe we are watching a different movie than you elizah. :P I am with sam, the war was without a doubt Loki's doing. Don't forget, Sam said he MANIPULATED the war against the frost giants. Sure, thor pulled the trigger, but loki did all the manipulating to get the oppritunity to present itself Elizah.

Watch it again, that entire movie, the plot of the movie was ALL loki's manipulation. There is no doubt about it that the war was loki's doing, he wanted it to happen, so thor would be exiled. Its typcal Loki scheming. He provided the moments that would lead up to thor pulling that trigger.

He allowed the frost giants into asgard or whatever. He KNEW thor's wreckless behavior would make him want to get revenge. Sure, as loki said, it started off as a little fun to "ruin his brothers big day" but oppritunity presented itself. He manipulated thor into wanting to go into Jotenheim, knowing thor's rage and thirst for battle, he started the war.

Thor pulled the trigger, but it was ALL through Loki's manipulation.

That entire movie was basically Loki's scheme. That's what I meant before when I said all the bad loki has done. That entire movie was a scheme of Loki's. He didn't pull the trigger for the war, but he no doubt manipulated, and allowed the oppritunity for thor to do so to present itself

so there is the war, Loki manipulated his way to the throne. Thor getting banished, Odin falling into the odinsleep, the oppritunity presented itself, and loki took over the throne. Yes, loki didn't know odin would fall into the odinsleep, HOWEVER, thor was being crowned king, which meant loki KNEW odin was going to step down regardless, with tthor gone, it's loki's throne for the taking. Manipulation elizah. I forgot how great the did that with loki in this movie. It was right out of the comics. Watch it again. the war happened due to loki's manipulation. Loki taking the throne, happened through manipulation. Everything he did kept allowing another oppritunity to present itself, until thor returned (which he didn't expect)


and no, im with you on killing odin. He didn't plan on it.

But the war, and him taking the throne, that's just typical classic loki elizah . He manipulated everything so it would happen. Thor pulled the trigger, but loki knows his brother, and presented the oppritunity for it to happen.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Fair enough. Seems like there's not much harm in imagining what an alternate telling of the tale might look like, though.

I mean, there's
What I Think Could Happen (of varying degrees of plausibility)
What I Want to Happen
What I Think Will Happen

There's overlap among these sets, but they are not all the same. Things that don't wind up in the movie--maybe we'll see them in a book someday. It's all interesting to me.

without a doubt.

I think I said this a few days ago,

but I'd bet my butt that we aren't even close as to what's going on.

hence the fun in speculation

[American Maid]

hahaha, yeah, we probably are nowhere close to the official story line.

No ifs, ands, or butts

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Maybe we are watching a different movie than you elizah. :P I am with sam, the war was without a doubt Loki's doing. Don't forget, Sam said he MANIPULATED the war against the frost giants. Sure, thor pulled the trigger, but loki did all the manipulating to get the oppritunity to present itself Elizah.

Watch it again, that entire movie, the plot of the movie was ALL loki's manipulation. There is no doubt about it that the war was loki's doing, he wanted it to happen, so thor would be exiled. Its typcal Loki scheming. He provided the moments that would lead up to thor pulling that trigger.

He allowed the frost giants into asgard or whatever. He KNEW thor's wreckless behavior would make him want to get revenge. Sure, as loki said, it started off as a little fun to "ruin his brothers big day" but oppritunity presented itself. He manipulated thor into wanting to go into Jotenheim, knowing thor's rage and thirst for battle, he started the war.

Thor pulled the trigger, but it was ALL through Loki's manipulation.

That entire movie was basically Loki's scheme. That's what I meant before when I said all the bad loki has done. That entire movie was a scheme of Loki's. He didn't pull the trigger for the war, but he no doubt manipulated, and allowed the oppritunity for thor to do so to present itself

so there is the war, Loki manipulated his way to the throne. Thor getting banished, Odin falling into the odinsleep, the oppritunity presented itself, and loki took over the throne. Yes, loki didn't know odin would fall into the odinsleep, HOWEVER, thor was being crowned king, which meant loki KNEW odin was going to step down regardless, with tthor gone, it's loki's throne for the taking. Manipulation elizah. I forgot how great the did that with loki in this movie. It was right out of the comics. Watch it again. the war happened due to loki's manipulation. Loki taking the throne, happened through manipulation. Everything he did kept allowing another oppritunity to present itself, until thor returned (which he didn't expect)


and no, im with you on killing odin. He didn't plan on it.

But the war, and him taking the throne, that's just typical classic loki elizah . He manipulated everything so it would happen. Thor pulled the trigger, but loki knows his brother, and presented the oppritunity for it to happen.

Exactly.
Everything in that movie is set up by Loki. He is a bigger schemer and manipulator than even Iago in Othello. (But he might have met his match with Thanos. )

I believe Feige confirmed somewhere that Thanos would NOT be in Thor 2 (or at least not a major villain as your suggestion implies). But saved for Guardians and Avengers 2. Someone tell me if I am not remembering that correctly.

Feige also said early on that the Chitauri wouldn't be in Avengers.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Exactly.
Everything in that movie is set up by Loki. He is a bigger schemer and manipulator than even Iago in Othello. (But he might have met his match with Thanos. )



Feige also said early on that the Chitauri wouldn't be in Avengers.

Oh, when it comes to scheming and manipulating, thanos is king lol.

And the talk you and I had a month or so ago Sam, I think it was you. I thought thanos won't appear because starlin signed off on him to appear.

But that really doesn't matter. Also, again, dodging the question on the studios part, they said thanos will not be "the villain" in Thor: The Dark World, however, they never said he won't appear

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Oh, when it comes to scheming and manipulating, thanos is king lol.

And the talk you and I had a month or so ago Sam, I think it was you. I thought thanos won't appear because starlin signed off on him to appear.

But that really doesn't matter. Also, again, dodging the question on the studios part, they said thanos will not be "the villain" in Thor: The Dark World, however, they never said he won't appear

At this point, I believe Thanos will still stay in shadows in Thor 2 --- at least until the post-creds, where he is wont to show up from time to time. Meantime, The Other will handle all the heavy lifting for The Mad Titan in this movie. (Many still speculate that The Other has even already been photographed on set at Bourne Woods, as several unsavory characters spotted there might well be him.)

If there is one last bit of major casting news left for this movie, I'm willing to bet it will be for Thanos. Because whoever gets the role will need to reprise it in GOTG and TA2. So it's gotta be a major announcement.

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Surfer posted this plot outline over in the main spoilers thread. Normally I would quote only the part to which I'm responding. But for easy reference, I am quoting it in its entirety.




Wow, this is really great! You've thought a lot of detail out. I tried working out a revision to the end of Elizah's outline and found that it's not so easy to work out a lot of subsidiary details. So kudos to you for working so much in.

Odin banishes Loki to Muspelheim? I don't know much about that realm, but it strikes me as pretty severe. Of course, Loki has committed some serious crimes, and Odin has not thus far shown himself to be the coddling kind of father when it comes to discipline.


I'm interested in how you have Malekith have Surtur target Alfheim first. Perhaps the light and dark elves have bad blood between them, or maybe they have long been rivals and Malekitih figures it would be useful to take them out first. I'm not certain how you'd stage it off the top of my head, but a fun angle in my mind would be to have Surtur manipulating Malekith and Malekith manipulating Surtur, each thinking he is the one with the upper hand. Of course, Surtur is far more powerful than Malekith, but Malekith would not be the first ambitious leader to think he has more control than he actually has.

I'm not certain Alfheim, Vanaheim, and Asgard are all on the same planet in the regular Marvel setup, but that does solve one of the big logistical hassles of this film, that of transporting everyone here and there without the Bifrost.


I'm curious as to why you don't show Algrim's transformation to Kurse. I suppose there's a lot going on in the movie, though you miss an opportunity to show a somewhat different motivation (revenge) than just being a brute-muscle guy for the dark elves. Now, you do use a similar element of Malekith sending Thor and his opponent down to the molten lava. So you possibly still could have this transformation, start with Algrim, go to the pit of lava, and then Kurse. You'd need to add a mechanism for his transformation in that event.


One of the strengths of this outline is how many battle sequences there are. I think that will be reflected in the film, even if it's not this exact way. Another strength is showing just how hard Asgard has been hit. As I've said before, I see one of the currents in this film (and to a lessere extent, the Avengers line) is the balance of power shifting among worlds. Asgardian prominence isn't what it used to be. That's going to be very hard for them to process (but that's material for a future film)


I have the impression that Thor doesn't do as well against magic as he does against other forms of attacks (as Elizah and I have been touching on, he seems to be vulnerable to illusions, for example). So Thor may need some help. Perhaps Loki can go over there. Loki would probably like the idea of Thor owing him big time


And I also like how you take it to a place we have been discussing, where the Asgardians feel like Thor has deserted them. Interestingly, you have Odin survive. Do you anticipate him dying in Thor3? Or will the franchise end with him remaining king?


Thanks for sharing it!

Your welcome, and it is probably more wrong then right, but I at least had fun doing it.


If anyone would like to revise it or take parts of it to make up their own scenario please feel free.


Regarding your first two questions.


The reason I banished Loki to Muspelheim as well as why I brought Surtur to Alfheim first instead of directly to Asgard (in my version above). It is mostly because I didn't want Surtur and the sons of Muspell to just arrive at Asgards door in the first act and catch everyone off guard and destroy everything. It just felt too destructive too soon in the film, better to have the impending threat throughout the film.


However, I kind of felt it was necessary that Surtur be released in the first Act so Malekith has the distraction necessary to keep the Asgardians busy while he attacks earth with his Dark Elf forces. Hence me picking Alfheim for the destination for Malekith to release Surtur on the Asgardian planetoid and yes I agree bad blood could be used as the reason for him destroying Alfheim first. If you are questioning if it is a planet with all 3 realms (including Vanaheim) you can view it here (at least if we are keeping it comic accurate).


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Asgard_the_nine_worlds.jpg


So, getting back to my original sentence about Loki in Muspelheim if Surtur is going to be launched as an attack in the first act on the Asgardian planetoid (to provide the distraction for Malekith invading earth), who better to warn Odin of the threat then Loki (who would like nothing more then to have the opportunity to gain his fathers good favor and to be able to continue his manipulations without being hindered). So, I decided banishment to Muspellheim could work given where he would be in the film during the first Act (being punished) and more or less where he would need to be to learn of the events. I don't know if it's a great solution, but it's what I came up with.


In addition I would like to comment that I thought we had gotten confirmation that all 9 realms are suppose to be shown in this film, because I hear several people stating that it is too much. If it has not been confirmed then perhaps they are right and we will not see Alfheim or Vanaheim in this film. However, I was under the impression confirmation of all 9 realms being shown was made, and if that is the case in my version it would actually still be missing realms that require explaining. Maybe elizah72 can help me with that, as she is good at filling in the gaps and thinking outside the box.


As for why I didn't show Algrim's transformation into Kurse. Plain and simple just felt it would take up to much time seeing Algrim battle Thor, having him be betrayed by Malekith, having him loose his memory of what actually happened, turn into Kurse blaming Thor, have him return to battle Thor, have him regain his memory, and have him kill Malekith. I just think if someone looses there memory it is generally a slow process for someone to regain it. Which is fine in comics, because Kurse can be searching for Thor and have many battles with him through 100's of comics before coming to the realization that Thor was not responsible and then go after Malekith and kill him. However, in a movie where Malekith and the Dark elves are invading earth you can't have it seem like he has lost his memory for a long duration. So, I changed aspects of the character to fit with the flow of the story I created trying to leave elements of the character intact when possible.
However, as I have said many times previously I am all for sticking with the character origins, so if they can figure out a way to do it and fit it within the context of the film without it feeling forced then that's what I would like to see.


As for your comment about Thor being weaker against magic, some might consider Thor's ability to call upon lightning as a magic of sorts. However, I would agree Thor is a warrior mostly and he can stand up to some of the strongest physical characters in the Marvel Universe and it would make sense that he does not fair as well against characters of a magical nature like his brother Loki or Malekith. So, yeah I am really looking forward to this battle of might vs. magic, especially since with Loki you always feel like Thor is holding back some because it's his brother, but with Malekith the battle should be brutal and unrelenting.


As for your comments about Thor deserting Asgard and his choice being responsible for lots of destruction. Yeah, I think that you and elizah72 are absolutely correct about the moral sacrifice tease on the side of the bus and what it most likely means for Thor and Asgard. So, basically built from there.


Regarding why I choose not to kill off Odin. Well 2 reasons. I really like having Odin be the ruler and most powerful Asgardian, because if you kill off Odin and Thor takes on the Odinforce then his battles with Loki and most other villians like the Enchantress, or the Executioner would be very one sided battles in favor of Thor. In order for the movies to continue to be enjoyable I would say he needs to keep his battles more evenly matched. In addition the movie requires someone to defeat Surtur, and even if someone said well Thor with the Odinforce could do it, well to me it would not be enough. Odin has had his powers for a long period of time and has had a chance to know how to use his powers, so in my opinion Thor with the Odin force (just being given the powers) would not be as powerful as Odin himself, and even Odin is struggling to battle with Surtur. So, I don't think Thor could stop Surtur even with the Odinforce if it was just newly given to him.


So, that is some of my reasoning feel free to sound off at the normal place below.

Surfer

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Fair enough. Seems like there's not much harm in imagining what an alternate telling of the tale might look like, though.

I mean, there's
What I Think Could Happen (of varying degrees of plausibility)
What I Want to Happen
What I Think Will Happen

There's overlap among these sets, but they are not all the same. Things that don't wind up in the movie--maybe we'll see them in a book someday. It's all interesting to me.

Yes. It's good to talk about all of the possibilities, since we can't get into the brain of the writers and director and producers and we dont know what they are interested in showing. We have a whole year to wait, no sense in limiting what we are going to discuss so early. And the speculation is that most if not all 9 realms will be represented, so no harm in trying to figure out how that might work and fit into a 2 hour movie.

We certainly won't have it completely right but it's fun trying.

jaqua99 and cherokeesam:

*sigh* okay.... so, are you guys saying, if I am to understand correctly, that brilliant, manipulative, self centered, self preservationist, Loki, is actually stupid enough and suicidal enough to place his life in mortal danger by going to Jotunheim with Thor and co at the beginning of the film as part of his grand master plan to get the throne? Because that shows a great deal of stupidity on his part and again makes him suicidal (although he was that in the end). He had no way of knowing that he would survive that trip as it was clearly foreshadowed by the trepidation of Sif and the Warriors 3. And so he and the others going on that trip, the one that started the impending war, was most definitely not his plan. Did he manipulate in other places? Sure. But that part, the war itself, definitely not. A truly wise manipulator would have planned that Jotunheim part out well ahead of time, and very definitely would have planned an airtight excuse for why he couldn't go down to Jotunheim (I think I hear mother calling! I better stay behind so they dont get suspcious! etc...). So, in that case, if it was all along his perfectly planned out plan to have Thor go down and start a war with Jotunheim, then Thor and co would have gone down without him, and either died, or Loki would have tattled on them and saved them but then the war would have been started and Loki would be looking mighty good as a potential heir for not going with them. That's another thing. Loki went without much argument or trying to weasel out of it, and so was a part of it. This was certainly risking that Odin would be angry with him as well (which he was). So again, pretty dumb on Loki's part if that was his plan all along. And I give him credit for being A LOT smarter than that.

But I digress, they did go down all together, and what happened when they were down there? Here is where you should watch again because you apparently missed this very important exchange:

LOKI
Thor, stop and think. Look around
you. We are outnumbered.

THOR
Know your place, brother...

LAUFEY
You know not what your actions
would unleash. I do. Go now, while I still
allow it.

Thor simmers. Loki speaks up.

LOKI
We will accept your most gracious
offer.
The others look to Thor imploringly. Thor stares Laufey down
a beat -- then relents. He turns to leave. His comrades
breathe a sigh of relief and follow, when a Frost Giant
nearby mutters under his breath.

JOTUN
Run back home, little princess.
Thor stops in his tracks. Loki goes white. He knows what's
coming.

LOKI
Damn.
In one quick move, Thor pulls Mjolnir, swings it, and KNOCKS
the Jotun clear across the plaza.

This is from the online script by the way (to save me some time), but again, clearly, the plan all along was not to be on Jotunheim risking life and limb to purposely start a war, that he will likely NOT benefit from, since he has a pretty good chance of dying there (along with the rest of them) in this scenario. Again I point out, a truly intelligent manipulator would have known the mortal danger of going down there and found a way to get himself out of it pretty fast, if that was his plan all along. And not only that, he tried to stop Thor, keep the peace and walk away, and Thor couldn't keep his temper in check, despite the danger to him and his friends and brother.

I could actually do a LOOOONG step by step description of his manipulations and motivations in Thor 1, as I see it, to explain it all to you further but I'd rather get back to speculating here about Thor 2. If it's all right with you two. Perhaps go over to the Loki thread if you want to continue this topic with me, so we can get back to Thor 2 here. Ok?

Just so you know I get just as fired up when people who LOVE Loki a little too much start hating on Odin and Thor and blast them for their treatment of him. The truth is somewhere in between with any of these characters, which I suppose is what makes them so interesting to me. If it was all black and white I wouldn't care to debate the characters motivations.

and no, im with you on killing odin. He didn't plan on it.

Well at least we agree on that.

Feige also said early on that the Chitauri wouldn't be in Avengers.

ok, fair enough

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

At this point, I believe Thanos will still stay in shadows in Thor 2 --- at least until the post-creds, where he is wont to show up from time to time. Meantime, The Other will handle all the heavy lifting for The Mad Titan in this movie. (Many still speculate that The Other has even already been photographed on set at Bourne Woods, as several unsavory characters spotted there might well be him.)

If there is one last bit of major casting news left for this movie, I'm willing to bet it will be for Thanos. Because whoever gets the role will need to reprise it in GOTG and TA2. So it's gotta be a major announcement.

I suggested that a while ago, that maybe after the credits they'd have a scene where Thanos or his henchmen grab Loki, or maybe grab something in Odin's vault with Loki's help to lead in to Avengers 2. But someone said no way Thanos would show up, he's to be saved for Avengers 2. (that might have been jaqua99 that said that actually! can't remember for sure ) I still think it's entirely possible for the after credits scene leading into A2, yes. I still dont agree that he's going to have a Marauder army attacking Asgard at this point though.

I didnt see the Other at Bourne, I saw some creatures that look similar but they dont have the pointy chin he does (or all the stuff over his face). What I've seen doesn't quite look enough like him so I'm going with he's not there, and those are possibly trolls.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Surfer

The reason I banished Loki to Muspelheim as well as why I brought Surtur to Alfheim first instead of directly to Asgard (in my version above). It is mostly because I didn't want Surtur and the sons of Muspell to just arrive at Asgards door in the first act and catch everyone off guard and destroy everything. It just felt too destructive too soon in the film, better to have the impending threat throughout the film.

I would think they'd want the element of surprise on Odin and the Asgardians but if used as a one-two punch with Malekith, then that could make sense, yes. But I think it makes more sense to draw the Asgardians away to help Alfheim and then the other force comes in to hit Asgard while much of the troops are away. Just a suggestion... Come to think of it, maybe that's a change I'll make to mine for when Frigga dies, because Odin is off helping Alfheim or something. Maybe, i'm still going to sit on what I have for a while.

If you are questioning if it is a planet with all 3 realms (including Vanaheim) you can view it here (at least if we are keeping it comic accurate).

I believe the MCU is different, based on the drawing done when he's with Jane. They appear to be different planets. I've yet to find an image of that to post though.

So, getting back to my original sentence about Loki in Muspelheim if Surtur is going to be launched as an attack in the first act on the Asgardian planetoid (to provide the distraction for Malekith invading earth), who better to warn Odin of the threat then Loki (who would like nothing more then to have the opportunity to gain his fathers good favor and to be able to continue his manipulations without being hindered). So, I decided banishment to Muspellheim could work given where he would be in the film during the first Act (being punished) and more or less where he would need to be to learn of the events. I don't know if it's a great solution, but it's what I came up with.

Yeah I have issue with much of that, but pretty much explained somehwhere above, so I wont repeat it. I appreciate it is hard to come up with solutions for such things though. Not easy.

In addition I would like to comment that I thought we had gotten confirmation that all 9 realms are suppose to be shown in this film, because I hear several people stating that it is too much. If it has not been confirmed then perhaps they are right and we will not see Alfheim or Vanaheim in this film. However, I was under the impression confirmation of all 9 realms being shown was made, and if that is the case in my version it would actually still be missing realms that require explaining. Maybe elizah72 can help me with that, as she is good at filling in the gaps and thinking outside the box.

All I founds is rumors that they *MAY* all appear, so not for sure. It would be difficult to fit it all in, some may just be a matter of a character from that realm showing up to fight or something. We might not see all the worlds but I'm hoping to get at least close to having some representation of all the realms. (even Jotunheim, even if it's just mention of how devastated it is after Loki's attack)

As for why I didn't show Algrim's transformation into Kurse. Plain and simple just felt it would take up to much time seeing Algrim battle Thor, having him be betrayed by Malekith, having him loose his memory of what actually happened, turn into Kurse blaming Thor, have him return to battle Thor, have him regain his memory, and have him kill Malekith. I just think if someone looses there memory it is generally a slow process for someone to regain it. Which is fine in comics, because Kurse can be searching for Thor and have many battles with him through 100's of comics before coming to the realization that Thor was not responsible and then go after Malekith and kill him. However, in a movie where Malekith and the Dark elves are invading earth you can't have it seem like he has lost his memory for a long duration. So, I changed aspects of the character to fit with the flow of the story I created trying to leave elements of the character intact when possible.
However, as I have said many times previously I am all for sticking with the character origins, so if they can figure out a way to do it and fit it within the context of the film without it feeling forced then that's what I would like to see.

Yes, I have issue with this part of the story too, in the comics it's not that fast, he goes off and goes and fights Bill in NY and then later regains his memory and then later gets Malekith. I'm actually wondering if that won't be tied up neaty at the end of Thor 2, if they may leave Kurse and Malekith out there to Thor 3, and have that happen then. I'd rather they tie it up neatly sooner rather than later but it does seem like it's all going to happen awfully quickly.

So, yeah I am really looking forward to this battle of might vs. magic, especially since with Loki you always feel like Thor is holding back some because it's his brother, but with Malekith the battle should be brutal and unrelenting.

Agreed. And from the pictures so far looks like it will be!

Regarding why I choose not to kill off Odin. Well 2 reasons. I really like having Odin be the ruler and most powerful Asgardian, because if you kill off Odin and Thor takes on the Odinforce then his battles with Loki and most other villians like the Enchantress, or the Executioner would be very one sided battles in favor of Thor.

Definitely, that's why that part needs to be held back until the end of the franchise, or Thor's part in it at least. He'd be too powerful for the Avengers movies.

[Surfer]

elizah72,

Here is the picture you were looking for showing the 9 realms from the movie Thor.

http://images.wikia.com/marveldataba...ine_Realms.jpg

It shows a different interpretation of the 9 realms from the link I provided, but that is why I said if they are keeping it accurate with the comics.

Surfer

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Surfer

elizah72,

Here is the picture you were looking for showing the 9 realms from the movie Thor.

http://images.wikia.com/marveldataba...ine_Realms.jpg

It shows a different interpretation of the 9 realms from the link I provided, but that is why I said if they are keeping it accurate with the comics.

Surfer

Oh great thanks!!!

also posting this bit here...

New Interview with Anthony Hopkins:


“I do my last shot Friday,” Anthony Hopkins told MTV News. “I had a great time working with Chris Hemsworth and Rene Russo. Chris is mostly who I'm working with; he's a wonderful actor, great new star, Natalie Portman [too]. I'm having a ball! It's great working with young people. I haven't been in the film that much, I've only done isolated scene with Chris...Christopher Eccleston plays Malekith very good! We've had one encounter. I have to be careful where I step [on-set] because I lose all dimension. So I have to watch where I walk. The movie sets can be dangerous.”


Source:http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/11/19...he-dark-world/


(First brought to you from/by Marvel Freshman)

Hmm... only one scene with Eccleston, which I think may support my idea of it being a flashback scene showing how Malekith became so messed up on that one side... maybe...

and a new short vid shows people running away, Thor running in the direction they were running away from, and then Jane coming from another direction and running after THor... so... yup. my summary is already messed up. LOL