Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by American Maid

I agree with you that movies need to keep the story simple and the number of characters parsimonious. I would like to note that the stories that came out at the time the casting of Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje said that he would play both Algrim and Kurse. That implies that he will be transformed. Likely it would be an entity like Surtur that will be referenced in the film anyway, and may appear (rather than introducing an otherwise unneeded character like the Beyonder). And likely they won't have as much about Kurse charging around trying to get at whomever he holds responsible for what happened to him. So maybe he won't get amnesia. But it seems that the transformation part of his arc is more likely to be shown.

Thanks American Maid, that is good to know. I once again don't have a problem with them sticking with the origins of a character (as a matter of fact I prefer it), but they need to be able to make it work within the context of the film and not have it feel forced or out of place. If they can do that, then I'm good.

Surfer

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Thanks American Maid, that is good to know. I once again don't have a problem with them sticking with the origins of a character (as a matter of fact I prefer it), but they need to be able to make it work within the context of the film and not have it feel forced or out of place. If they can do that, then I'm good.

Surfer

Yeah, in light of that, they probably will have the Algrim/Thor fight, the transformation, and the Thor/Kurse fight, without Kurse running around doing the other things he does in the book. That slims it down but keeps essential parts. I suppose he still needs to first think it's Thor's fault and then realize it was Malekith, as one of the "essential parts".

Whether there is a break between the transformation and the Thor/Kurse fight is hard for me to guess at the moment.

[waffles]

Originally Posted by marvel_freshman

@waffles My bad, are going to the set today?

No dude, you beat me fair and square by a good ten minutes I didn't get to go visit the set today as by the time I could get to work it was pitch black outside and I doubt they would have been filming anything then. I wish I had attempted to sneak out early though!

[ctsketch]

Bus is getting some action'

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by American Maid

I agree with you that movies need to keep the story simple and the number of characters parsimonious. I would like to note that the stories that came out at the time the casting of Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje said that he would play both Algrim and Kurse. That implies that he will be transformed. Likely it would be an entity like Surtur that will be referenced in the film anyway, and may appear (rather than introducing an otherwise unneeded character like the Beyonder). And likely they won't have as much about Kurse charging around trying to get at whomever he holds responsible for what happened to him. So maybe he won't get amnesia. But it seems that the transformation part of his arc is more likely to be shown.

Yeah, the fact that they specifically said both Algrim *and* Kurse appear in the movie means that the transformation will happen in this film. Otherwise, they could've just gone with Kurse as a generic bad mofo for Thor to fight.

The only looming question is, of course, who (if anybody) will assume Beyonder's role in transforming Algrim and manipulating him into blaming Thor for his problems.

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Yeah, the fact that they specifically said both Algrim *and* Kurse appear in the movie means that the transformation will happen in this film. Otherwise, they could've just gone with Kurse as a generic bad mofo for Thor to fight.

The only looming question is, of course, who (if anybody) will assume Beyonder's role in transforming Algrim and manipulating him into blaming Thor for his problems.

I know this doesn't follow the comics, but what if Malekith uses some ancient spell to not only summon but to control Surtur. However, when Surtur see's Malekith's betrayal of Algrim (by attempting to kill him), Surtur sees it as an opportunity to turn Algrim into Kurse, enabling him to exact revenge on Malekith and in the process releasing himself from Malekith's control.

Just thought I would throw it out there.

Surfer

[Surfer]

Actually now that I think about it. Loki would be a good candidate for turning Algrim into Kurse and having him believe Thor was responsible for his near death. Afterall he is the master of manipulation and he believes his brother to be responsible for all of his problems.

Surfer

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Actually now that I think about it. Loki would be a good candidate for turning Algrim into Kurse and having him believe Thor was responsible for his near death. Afterall he is the master of manipulation and he believes his brother to be responsible for all of his problems.

Surfer

that kinda defeats the whole Loki's redemption story though

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

that kinda defeats the whole Loki's redemption story though

Well that depends, Loki is a manipulator, and he may not be seeking true redemption, but perhaps the appearance of redemption in the eyes of Odin. I mean he could suggest to Odin that Thor deserted Asgard in it's hour of need leaving it to defend itself against the forces of Surtur and the Sons of Muspel, while he (Loki) stayed to help defend Asgard against these forces. So a Thor deserves what he gets sort of speach, where he feels he has justified his actions.

Surfer

[Trimmings]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Actually now that I think about it. Loki would be a good candidate for turning Algrim into Kurse and having him believe Thor was responsible for his near death. Afterall he is the master of manipulation and he believes his brother to be responsible for all of his problems.

Surfer

That would actually make a lot of sense. Loki has been beat in a fight with Thor twice now, and he's smart enough to know he needs to figure out another way to win.

How would he power up Algrim though? I didn't read the comics, but everyone was talking about the Beyonder like he was so powerful he could just power up whomever he wanted whenever he wanted

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by Trimmings

That would actually make a lot of sense. Loki has been beat in a fight with Thor twice now, and he's smart enough to know he needs to figure out another way to win.

How would he power up Algrim though? I didn't read the comics, but everyone was talking about the Beyonder like he was so powerful he could just power up whomever he wanted whenever he wanted

Yeah the Beyonder is much more powerful then Loki for sure, but still they might be able to figure out a way to have Loki do it. I mean the retconed beyonder is essentially a self aware cosmic cube and the cosmic cube in the movie has been transported back to Asgard along with Loki and Thor (probably to be placed in Odin's vault). So, I don't know how they would do it exactly, but if Loki was able to regain control of the cosmic cube temporarilly that would give him the sufficient power to introduce into Algrim and change him to Kurse. Not to mention it would be a nod sort of to comic book fans regarding the beyonder.

Surfer

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Yeah the Beyonder is much more powerful then Loki for sure, but still they might be able to figure out a way to have Loki do it. I mean the retconed beyonder is essentially a self aware cosmic cube and the cosmic cube in the movie has been transported back to Asgard along with Loki and Thor (probably to be placed in Odin's vault). So, I don't know how they would do it exactly, but if Loki was able to regain control of the cosmic cube temporarilly that would give him the sufficient power to introduce into Algrim and change him to Kurse. Not to mention it would be a nod sort of to comic book fans regarding the beyonder.

Surfer

A while back I speculated that Selvig was losing his grip on reality because he was referring to the Tesseract as if it was sentient. Then I found out that cosmic cubes (as someone else pointed out, there is more than one, at least in the books) could become sentient. So then I wondered if Selvig is still kind of residually affected by the Tesseract.

Could Loki manipulate Selvig and thereby manipulate the Tesseract? (Selvig is in this Greenwich University scene too)

Of course, this is steering us toward Loki-as-chessmaster territory, and various people associated with the film have commented that Loki was not going to be the villain this time around.

[Trimmings]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Yeah the Beyonder is much more powerful then Loki for sure, but still they might be able to figure out a way to have Loki do it. I mean the retconed beyonder is essentially a self aware cosmic cube and the cosmic cube in the movie has been transported back to Asgard along with Loki and Thor (probably to be placed in Odin's vault). So, I don't know how they would do it exactly, but if Loki was able to regain control of the cosmic cube temporarilly that would give him the sufficient power to introduce into Algrim and change him to Kurse. Not to mention it would be a nod sort of to comic book fans regarding the beyonder.

Surfer

I didn't even think about the cosmic cube being brought back to asgard
That's definitely a good enough tool to power up Algrim in my book! So does Kurse die at the end of this story? If Loki is the one manipulating him into killing Thor, I wouldn't want anyone to find out about it except for us. That way we could have a forgiven and free Loki for the third movie. If he got caught trying to destory Jotunheim, then Midguard, then Thor I don't see Odin letting him out of prison for a while

[Vartha]

And let's not forget the Spear was left on EARTH in Avengers too

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by Trimmings

I didn't even think about the cosmic cube being brought back to asgard
That's definitely a good enough tool to power up Algrim in my book! So does Kurse die at the end of this story? If Loki is the one manipulating him into killing Thor, I wouldn't want anyone to find out about it except for us. That way we could have a forgiven and free Loki for the third movie. If he got caught trying to destory Jotunheim, then Midguard, then Thor I don't see Odin letting him out of prison for a while

In the comics Algrim is changed to Kurse by the Beyonder after almost being killed by Malekith. However Kurse does not remember the events and is told Thor was responsible, so he seeks out and tries to destroy Thor. Eventually Kurse does regain his memory though, and when that happens he locates Malekith and breaks his neck.

As for Loki manipulating Kurse, once again I can see Loki as feeling he is justified in his actions against his brother if Thor left Asgard during it's hour of need and perhaps in his own twisted mind he feels he is redeeming himself by trying to kill Thor who he can percieve as a traitor to the realm of Asgard.

Surfer

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

that kinda defeats the whole Loki's redemption story though

There hasn't been confirmation that Loki's redemption happens in Thor 2, has there? I assumed that wouldn't be until the third movie or so, and even then it wouldn't be a redemption so much as a "saving himself by not doing something evil" moment.

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by Trimmings

I didn't even think about the cosmic cube being brought back to asgard
That's definitely a good enough tool to power up Algrim in my book! So does Kurse die at the end of this story? If Loki is the one manipulating him into killing Thor, I wouldn't want anyone to find out about it except for us. That way we could have a forgiven and free Loki for the third movie. If he got caught trying to destory Jotunheim, then Midguard, then Thor I don't see Odin letting him out of prison for a while

If Loki is forgiven after all the horrific crap he has done, I will be extremely upset. He is a cold-blooded mass murderer, not some poor misunderstood wooby who can be redeemed by love, which a lot of Loki fans seem to think.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Trimmings

So does Kurse die at the end of this story?

In the book you mean? My understanding is that he kills Malekith and, his thirst for revenge being satisfied, he becomes peaceful and is made a citizen of Asgard.

Originally Posted by Trimmings

If Loki is the one manipulating him into killing Thor, I wouldn't want anyone to find out about it except for us. That way we could have a forgiven and free Loki for the third movie.

Um, if Thor gets killed, that probably hurts the chances of Thor3 getting greenlighted

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by American Maid

A while back I speculated that Selvig was losing his grip on reality because he was referring to the Tesseract as if it was sentient. Then I found out that cosmic cubes (as someone else pointed out, there is more than one, at least in the books) could become sentient. So then I wondered if Selvig is still kind of residually affected by the Tesseract.

Could Loki manipulate Selvig and thereby manipulate the Tesseract? (Selvig is in this Greenwich University scene too)

Of course, this is steering us toward Loki-as-chessmaster territory, and various people associated with the film have commented that Loki was not going to be the villain this time around.

Yeah, Selvig could easily be taken over by Loki again through mind control (as has been shown in previous movies), but the Tesseract is not on earth anymore, so Selvig can't get a hold of it by himself even under Loki's control. In addition Loki doesn't really need Selvig to operate it. The way I see it is if Loki took the Tesseract again (from perhaps Odin's Vault) even if just for a moment, then he has already gotten his hands dirty, so why would he not just use it to create Kurse himself?

Surfer

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Yeah, Selvig could easily be taken over by Loki again through mind control (as has been shown in previous movies), but the Tesseract is not on earth anymore, so Selvig can't get a hold of it by himself even under Loki's control. In addition Loki doesn't really need Selvig to operate it. The way I see it is if Loki took the Tesseract again (from perhaps Odin's Vault) even if just for a moment, then he has already gotten his hands dirty, so why would he not just use it to create Kurse himself?

Surfer

I was wondering if it might be a way for him to access the Tesseract's power without actually laying hands on the Tesseract.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

There hasn't been confirmation that Loki's redemption happens in Thor 2, has there? I assumed that wouldn't be until the third movie or so, and even then it wouldn't be a redemption so much as a "saving himself by not doing something evil" moment.

There is no confirmation of anything about Loki. Mum has continued to be the word and likely will stay secret until the film comes out. Drat.

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by American Maid

I was wondering if it might be a way for him to access the Tesseract's power without actually laying hands on the Tesseract.

No I really don't see Selvig as having been given any powers to call upon the tesseract, much less to be able to channel it's power through his body. I think his comment was more of an observation only.

Surfer

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by American Maid

In the book you mean? My understanding is that he kills Malekith and, his thirst for revenge being satisfied, he becomes peaceful and is made a citizen of Asgard.


Um, if Thor gets killed, that probably hurts the chances of Thor3 getting greenlighted

Loki already killed Thor once, in Thor. He tried to kill Thor again in The Avengers. That little shiv in the side wouldn't have done the job (unless poisoned), but dropping Thor five miles in a cage was a serious attempt at murder. Even if Loki manages to hide his latest fratricidal plot, no one is likely to forget all the other times he tried to do his brother in.

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by xeno000

If Loki is forgiven after all the horrific crap he has done, I will be extremely upset. He is a cold-blooded mass murderer, not some poor misunderstood wooby who can be redeemed by love, which a lot of Loki fans seem to think.

Cold blooded mass murderer would be our impression of him (as Humans) for sure, but what of the people of Asgard. Loki described people as Ants, so why should he be concerned with crushing a few Ants, and suppose that feeling is mirrored throughout Asgard that people are below them (with the exception of Thor). We as a society kill animals all the time and most would not consider themselves to be murderer's. Also, you must consider this. Loki, only really seeks approval and redemption from Odin, and most parents will forgive their kids before somebody else would.

Just food for thought.

Surfer

[marvel_freshman]

Anthony Hopkins 'Odin' Interview

“I do my last shot Friday,” Anthony Hopkins told MTV News. “I had a great time working with Chris Hemsworth and Rene Russo. Chris is mostly who I'm working with; he's a wonderful actor, great new star, Natalie Portman [too]. I'm having a ball! It's great working with young people. I haven't been in the film that much, I've only done isolated scene with Chris...Christopher Eccleston plays Malekith very good! We've had one encounter. I have to be careful where I step [on-set] because I lose all dimension. So I have to watch where I walk. The movie sets can be dangerous.”

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/11/19...he-dark-world/