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Old 11-20-2012, 01:23 AM   #76
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

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Originally Posted by fear&loathing View Post
You guys are going to think I'm nuts for writing this much about a small issue. But its a huge issue that cheapens the reveal at the end of the movie.

There is something that has bothered me that I have not seen anyone bring up over the summer regarding one of this year's biggest and most polarizing movie: The Dark Knight Rises. My problem that baffles me regards what I assume to be a semi-plot-hole that has not been mentioned by anyone. By your definition, I'm not even sure if it is a plot hole but it is a glaring contradiction.

Here it goes:

When Bruce comes back to Gotham after spending some time in Bane's "home" he meets up with Selina Kyle and together they go and meet up with Lucius Fox who is being guarded by Bane's men/League of Shadows while also being accompanied by Miranda Tate (who we learn at the end of the movie is really running the show as Talia). Sorry for that rather large sentence. So Bruce reveals he is back in Gotham and that he is alive which is very important to the plot and the characters. Bruce leaves Fox and Tate and goes off somewhere else with Selina.

The movie skips a scene or two and we are next at the Gordon/Ice scene where Bruce shows up as Batman, takes out the League "ninjas" and tells Gordon to light a puddle of gasoline with a flare. The flare ignites a flame that spreads up the side of a bridge to reveal a giant flaming bat-symbol. Cut to Bane who says "Impossible. Keep the girl close, he will come for her."

And that is my problem. Maybe I am reading too much into this but for the plot to work it has to have some logical sense. Ok, so Miranda is revealed to be Talia al Ghul at the end. Now that we know this, we know Talia saw Bruce when he first came back from the pit prison so we can safely assume that Talia told Bane that Bruce was back in town. But why was Bane surprised when he saw the flaming bat-symbol and why did the audience need to see him act out a charade amongst HIS MEN who already KNOW the full scope of Talia/Bane's plan. Thats just really goofy and kind of a movie-fake out meant to push you away from suspecting Miranda Tate is in fact Talia al Ghul while you are watching the movie. The only way I can see this working was if Fox was shown amongst Bane and his men during that moment which would give a reason for that ridiculous charade.

Is this a plot hole? Is it a continuity error? Is this asking audiences that are rewatching the movie for ___ number of times to take a leap of logic? Or is this lazy writing? Please tell me what this is and if I am crazy for being the only one talking about this contradiction.

-Mongo
I think the explanation is pretty simple. Bane might have technically known Bruce Wayne was still alive via Talia, but he didn't necessarily believe it. Classic villain arrogance. Also, it was one thing for him to know that Bruce made it back to Gotham, but another to see that The Batman was back, which is what the burning symbol signified. It doesn't compute for Bane because he broke the bat. He's still perplexed even once Batman defeats him.

"I broke you...how you have you come back?"

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Old 11-20-2012, 01:36 AM   #77
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fear&loathing View Post
You guys are going to think I'm nuts for writing this much about a small issue. But its a huge issue that cheapens the reveal at the end of the movie.

There is something that has bothered me that I have not seen anyone bring up over the summer regarding one of this year's biggest and most polarizing movie: The Dark Knight Rises. My problem that baffles me regards what I assume to be a semi-plot-hole that has not been mentioned by anyone. By your definition, I'm not even sure if it is a plot hole but it is a glaring contradiction.

Here it goes:

When Bruce comes back to Gotham after spending some time in Bane's "home" he meets up with Selina Kyle and together they go and meet up with Lucius Fox who is being guarded by Bane's men/League of Shadows while also being accompanied by Miranda Tate (who we learn at the end of the movie is really running the show as Talia). Sorry for that rather large sentence. So Bruce reveals he is back in Gotham and that he is alive which is very important to the plot and the characters. Bruce leaves Fox and Tate and goes off somewhere else with Selina.

The movie skips a scene or two and we are next at the Gordon/Ice scene where Bruce shows up as Batman, takes out the League "ninjas" and tells Gordon to light a puddle of gasoline with a flare. The flare ignites a flame that spreads up the side of a bridge to reveal a giant flaming bat-symbol. Cut to Bane who says "Impossible. Keep the girl close, he will come for her."

And that is my problem. Maybe I am reading too much into this but for the plot to work it has to have some logical sense. Ok, so Miranda is revealed to be Talia al Ghul at the end. Now that we know this, we know Talia saw Bruce when he first came back from the pit prison so we can safely assume that Talia told Bane that Bruce was back in town. But why was Bane surprised when he saw the flaming bat-symbol and why did the audience need to see him act out a charade amongst HIS MEN who already KNOW the full scope of Talia/Bane's plan. Thats just really goofy and kind of a movie-fake out meant to push you away from suspecting Miranda Tate is in fact Talia al Ghul while you are watching the movie. The only way I can see this working was if Fox was shown amongst Bane and his men during that moment which would give a reason for that ridiculous charade.

Is this a plot hole? Is it a continuity error? Is this asking audiences that are rewatching the movie for ___ number of times to take a leap of logic? Or is this lazy writing? Please tell me what this is and if I am crazy for being the only one talking about this contradiction.

-Mongo
I interpreted it as proof that Bane wasn't working UNDER Talia, but they were working together. She might have assumed, since Catwoman says, "Bane wants these guys for himself," that Bane really did take care of them.

I mean, given the various miscommunications that regular coworkers can have with each other, this isn't the most unbelievable thing in the movie. Not by a long shot.

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Old 11-20-2012, 01:37 AM   #78
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

Is the prologue the same as the theatrical version, or did they go back to the original one?

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:39 AM   #79
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

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Is the prologue the same as the theatrical version, or did they go back to the original one?
Same as the theatrical version.

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:47 AM   #80
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

I just watched the blu ray version on...uh...a website...and noticed for the first time that during Batman's return scene, the young police officer hit Batman's emp gun when he fired.

Call me blind, but I always just thought he simply shot at him, missed, and then Bats gave him a look like "uh...seriously, bro...you're shooting at me???"

What can I say? I only saw it twice in theaters...a midnight showing and a couple of days later at an 11am showing. Due to a crazy work schedule, I was fighting sleep both times!

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:51 AM   #81
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

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I just watched the blu ray version on...uh...a website...and noticed for the first time that during Batman's return scene, the young police officer hit Batman's emp gun when he fired.

Call me blind, but I always just thought he simply shot at him, missed, and then Bats gave him a look like "uh...seriously, bro...you're shooting at me???"

What can I say? I only saw it twice in theaters...a midnight showing and a couple of days later at an 11am showing. Due to a crazy work schedule, I was fighting sleep both times!
It's still the same look, isn't it?

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:53 AM   #82
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

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It's still the same look, isn't it?
This is true!

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Old 11-20-2012, 04:04 AM   #83
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fear&loathing View Post
You guys are going to think I'm nuts for writing this much about a small issue. But its a huge issue that cheapens the reveal at the end of the movie.

There is something that has bothered me that I have not seen anyone bring up over the summer regarding one of this year's biggest and most polarizing movie: The Dark Knight Rises. My problem that baffles me regards what I assume to be a semi-plot-hole that has not been mentioned by anyone. By your definition, I'm not even sure if it is a plot hole but it is a glaring contradiction.

Here it goes:

When Bruce comes back to Gotham after spending some time in Bane's "home" he meets up with Selina Kyle and together they go and meet up with Lucius Fox who is being guarded by Bane's men/League of Shadows while also being accompanied by Miranda Tate (who we learn at the end of the movie is really running the show as Talia). Sorry for that rather large sentence. So Bruce reveals he is back in Gotham and that he is alive which is very important to the plot and the characters. Bruce leaves Fox and Tate and goes off somewhere else with Selina.

The movie skips a scene or two and we are next at the Gordon/Ice scene where Bruce shows up as Batman, takes out the League "ninjas" and tells Gordon to light a puddle of gasoline with a flare. The flare ignites a flame that spreads up the side of a bridge to reveal a giant flaming bat-symbol. Cut to Bane who says "Impossible. Keep the girl close, he will come for her."

And that is my problem. Maybe I am reading too much into this but for the plot to work it has to have some logical sense. Ok, so Miranda is revealed to be Talia al Ghul at the end. Now that we know this, we know Talia saw Bruce when he first came back from the pit prison so we can safely assume that Talia told Bane that Bruce was back in town. But why was Bane surprised when he saw the flaming bat-symbol and why did the audience need to see him act out a charade amongst HIS MEN who already KNOW the full scope of Talia/Bane's plan. Thats just really goofy and kind of a movie-fake out meant to push you away from suspecting Miranda Tate is in fact Talia al Ghul while you are watching the movie. The only way I can see this working was if Fox was shown amongst Bane and his men during that moment which would give a reason for that ridiculous charade.

Is this a plot hole? Is it a continuity error? Is this asking audiences that are rewatching the movie for ___ number of times to take a leap of logic? Or is this lazy writing? Please tell me what this is and if I am crazy for being the only one talking about this contradiction.

-Mongo
It just shows Bane being very surprised that Bruce was able to recover , escape and return to assume the Batman persona. If you recall , even when they fight again , and he loses , Bane states "I broke you. How have you come back?" The moment he sees the flaming he says what he thinks of the whole thing...Impossible!

The editing issue has already been discussed here.

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Old 11-20-2012, 04:09 AM   #84
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

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It just shows Bane being very surprised that Bruce was able to recover , escape and return to assume the Batman persona. If you recall , even when they fight again , and he loses , Bane states "I broke you. How have you come back?" The moment he sees the flaming he says what he thinks of the whole thing...Impossible!
Nothing I disagree with here.

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Old 11-20-2012, 04:17 AM   #85
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

I noticed for the first time that it's Blake who asks Selina if she's okay on the stairs after the bar fight.

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Old 11-20-2012, 04:52 AM   #86
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

yeah but he shouldnt be surprised. he should already know that he is back. and bane's charade in front of his own men with the line of dialogue "keep her close, he will come for her" seems incredibly dumb that hes masquerading Miranda's identity in front of his own people.

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Old 11-20-2012, 05:27 AM   #87
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Why shouldn't he be surprised ? Even after he fights him , he's still surprised he's back...

I dont think thats a charade. He really wanted her to be close , in case Batman came back for Miranda. The bomb was about to go off , he couldn't take a chance of Batman "rescuing Miranda". From that moment he wants Talia to be always around him (and if you remember we dont see what's happening in the shot).

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Old 11-20-2012, 05:51 AM   #88
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

I actually laughed when Bane said "Impossible!"

Almost as hard as when Batman said "No! I came here to stop you!"

Not nearly as hard as I laughed when Batman started wailing "WHERE'S THE TRIGGER?!? WHERE IS IT?!?!"

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Old 11-20-2012, 07:05 AM   #89
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

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yeah but he shouldnt be surprised. he should already know that he is back. and bane's charade in front of his own men with the line of dialogue "keep her close, he will come for her" seems incredibly dumb that hes masquerading Miranda's identity in front of his own people.

As Bane's army consisted not only of LOS members but also freed Black Gate prisoners, mercenaries who worked only under Bane and some of the under privileged but misguided Gotham's citizens it was logical that Bane kept her identity as a secret at all times, even Dagget did not know that Miranda Tate was actually Taila Al Ghul though Bane had worked with Dagget for years.

And, ordinary Gothamites were also present there to watch the sentencing, and I don't think that all of Bane's men were aware of the fact that Talia and Miranda Tate was the same person, only members of LOS would be aware of that, it would be foolish for Bane to call Miranda Tate as Talia there, as it would potentially give up his inside source who was pretending to be working along with Fox, and Gordon.

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:55 AM   #90
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Not all of Banes men were league of shadows. It's probably a secret between Talia, Bane, and a few of Banes key men. Like Barsad, etc. Plus all he says is "keep her close. he'll come for her". What's wrong with that? Even if they know she's Talia, he's saying to keep Talia close cuz the Batmans gonna wanna rescue her.

Bane wasn't working under Talia as people like to claim. Bane and Talia were working together. This is shown especially when she tells Bane to let Bats live. He goes right ahead and decides to kill him anyway. It wasn't an order. Bane is too headstrong to take orders from anyone.

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:52 AM   #91
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Marion's stunt double...
I wish... at least that she would've stunted Marion's death scene.

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Apparently, Sibi, Emma, and I think Wally were in the ballroom scene (cameos). I just read that on another forum so I'm not sure if that's true. Although I don't know why that would be credit as "stunts".
Ah thanks!
I'm gonna take a closer look at that - but I think it's semi-impossible to point them out, with them wearing masks and all.

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Old 11-20-2012, 11:37 AM   #92
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Re: Miranda and Bane's lack of communication about Bruce's survival...

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Is this a plot hole? Is it a continuity error? Is this asking audiences that are rewatching the movie for ___ number of times to take a leap of logic? Or is this lazy writing? Please tell me what this is and if I am crazy for being the only one talking about this contradiction.
I don't think it's a plot hole...definitely somewhat lazy writing.

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Old 11-20-2012, 01:46 PM   #93
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Not all of Banes men were league of shadows. It's probably a secret between Talia, Bane, and a few of Banes key men. Like Barsad, etc. Plus all he says is "keep her close. he'll come for her". What's wrong with that? Even if they know she's Talia, he's saying to keep Talia close cuz the Batmans gonna wanna rescue her.

Bane wasn't working under Talia as people like to claim. Bane and Talia were working together. This is shown especially when she tells Bane to let Bats live. He goes right ahead and decides to kill him anyway. It wasn't an order. Bane is too headstrong to take orders from anyone.
The line is also great on re-viewing, because you realize that Bane's line is also because he wants to protect her. This is hardly lazy writing, they are able to convey three different ideas (Bane's arrogance and surprise despite Talia probably telling him that Bruce has returned, his next plan to lure Bruce into a trap, and also to foreshadow Bane's role as Talia's protector) with one line of dialogue.

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Old 11-20-2012, 01:55 PM   #94
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Default Re: Things you noticed after multiple viewings on DVD / BluRay.

I found my gf and I in the football stadium scenes while going frame by frame, so we made into the film after all!

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Old 11-20-2012, 05:18 PM   #95
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Were the orphans who found work in the sewers also working for Bane? The boy commented on that to Blake toward the beginning.

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Old 11-20-2012, 05:29 PM   #96
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Were the orphans who found work in the sewers also working for Bane? The boy commented on that to Blake toward the beginning.
I'd like to think so. Bane probably had them working on setting up the explosives in sewers, bringing in and moving materials and such.

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Old 11-20-2012, 11:28 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by fear&loathing View Post
You guys are going to think I'm nuts for writing this much about a small issue. But its a huge issue that cheapens the reveal at the end of the movie.

There is something that has bothered me that I have not seen anyone bring up over the summer regarding one of this year's biggest and most polarizing movie: The Dark Knight Rises. My problem that baffles me regards what I assume to be a semi-plot-hole that has not been mentioned by anyone. By your definition, I'm not even sure if it is a plot hole but it is a glaring contradiction.

Here it goes:

When Bruce comes back to Gotham after spending some time in Bane's "home" he meets up with Selina Kyle and together they go and meet up with Lucius Fox who is being guarded by Bane's men/League of Shadows while also being accompanied by Miranda Tate (who we learn at the end of the movie is really running the show as Talia). Sorry for that rather large sentence. So Bruce reveals he is back in Gotham and that he is alive which is very important to the plot and the characters. Bruce leaves Fox and Tate and goes off somewhere else with Selina.

The movie skips a scene or two and we are next at the Gordon/Ice scene where Bruce shows up as Batman, takes out the League "ninjas" and tells Gordon to light a puddle of gasoline with a flare. The flare ignites a flame that spreads up the side of a bridge to reveal a giant flaming bat-symbol. Cut to Bane who says "Impossible. Keep the girl close, he will come for her."

And that is my problem. Maybe I am reading too much into this but for the plot to work it has to have some logical sense. Ok, so Miranda is revealed to be Talia al Ghul at the end. Now that we know this, we know Talia saw Bruce when he first came back from the pit prison so we can safely assume that Talia told Bane that Bruce was back in town. But why was Bane surprised when he saw the flaming bat-symbol and why did the audience need to see him act out a charade amongst HIS MEN who already KNOW the full scope of Talia/Bane's plan. Thats just really goofy and kind of a movie-fake out meant to push you away from suspecting Miranda Tate is in fact Talia al Ghul while you are watching the movie. The only way I can see this working was if Fox was shown amongst Bane and his men during that moment which would give a reason for that ridiculous charade.

Is this a plot hole? Is it a continuity error? Is this asking audiences that are rewatching the movie for ___ number of times to take a leap of logic? Or is this lazy writing? Please tell me what this is and if I am crazy for being the only one talking about this contradiction.

-Mongo
Talia did not tell him Bruce was back. Now I know what you're thinking, "Goku are you stupid? Why the hell wouldn't Talia tell Bane that Bruce is back the moment she gets a chance?" The answer is that she couldn't tell Bane that Bruce was back. Now you're thinking "Why the hell not?". It's simple. It's because of the people around her and Bane. Keep in mind that at this point in the movie, most of Bane's henchmen are citizens of Gotham who think that Bane is some sort of revolutionist. These people are not members of the league of shadows. These people do not know that the bomb is going off no matter what. These people are constantly lied to by Bane, so that he can fulfill his agenda.

These people are also the ones guarding "Miranda". To them Miranda is just some hostage. Talia has worked years on this cover. If she were to tell Bane that Batman was back, surrounded by these oblivious henchmen, she could risk blowing her cover, and creating suspicion with those henchmen who believe Bane to be some sort of freedom fighter revolutionist, and that could be a huge threat to Bane and Talia's plan. They don't want their men to know that they've been lying to them this whole time. This is why Bane says "Keep her close. He'll come for her". He's keeping up this charade for his henchmen he is deceiving. Obviously his league of shadows henchmenn know better, but those henchmen who are from Gotham don't.

So Talia has no chance to tell Bane that Bruce is back. Not without blowing her cover. Bane is genuinely surprised that Bruce is back when he sees the flaming bat. Now, after this when Bane and Talia go to city hall, she can finally be herself, as evident by her garb. So I'm assuming that it's here that she talked with Bane and the League members about Bruce being back and that she knew.

Now the real reason why Bane didn't know, is because at this point in the movie we aren't suppose to know that Miranda is Talia, so we aren't suppose to think that she'd tell Bane he's back. But you can use my reasoning to justify it.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:41 AM   #98
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I noticed the board member with the glasses was the old man The Joker threatened in The Dark Knight.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:44 AM   #99
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Senator Leahy from Vermont, a huge Batman fan. He was also in Batman and Robin.

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Old 11-22-2012, 01:59 AM   #100
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I actually laughed when Bane said "Impossible!"

Almost as hard as when Batman said "No! I came here to stop you!"


Not nearly as hard as I laughed when Batman started wailing "WHERE'S THE TRIGGER?!? WHERE IS IT?!?!"
What was so funny about these lines? Doesn't make any sense to laugh at

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