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Old 11-19-2012, 06:24 PM   #101
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Sorry, I cut and pasted this little bit, because I made a comment that would have come off wrong due to me misreading your post.


"Thor running in the direction they were running away from, and then Jane coming from another direction and running after THor... so... yup. my summary is already messed up. LOL"

Join the club, I change my ideas on the direction of the movie like every 5 minutes. I have absolutely no clue whats going on, but it remains fun to speculate. Lol

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Old 11-19-2012, 06:37 PM   #102
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Sorry, I cut and pasted this little bit, because I made a comment that would have come off wrong due to me misreading your post.


"Thor running in the direction they were running away from, and then Jane coming from another direction and running after THor... so... yup. my summary is already messed up. LOL"

Join the club, I change my ideas on the direction of the movie like every 5 minutes. I have absolutely no clue whats going on, but it remains fun to speculate. Lol

Surfer
LOL, I saw it before you fixed it. It's okay I wasn't offended. LOL

Yeah, that's why I put out what I have so far, and I'm leaving it for a little while to see what changes. (as I'm sure some things will!)

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Old 11-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #103
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my summary is already messed up. LOL
It's not messed up. It's just an alternate telling of the tale

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Old 11-19-2012, 07:04 PM   #104
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LOL, I saw it before you fixed it. It's okay I wasn't offended. LOL

Yeah, that's why I put out what I have so far, and I'm leaving it for a little while to see what changes. (as I'm sure some things will!)
Sorry again, and I am grateful you were not offended. Let that be a lesson to me about reading the posts too quickly. Lol

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Old 11-19-2012, 07:11 PM   #105
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Your welcome, and it is probably more wrong then right, but I at least had fun doing it.
That's good!

I see I'm late to the party and you guys have already compared comics-Yggdrasil to movie-Yggdrasil.

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about Loki in Muspelheim if Surtur is going to be launched as an attack in the first act on the Asgardian planetoid (to provide the distraction for Malekith invading earth), who better to warn Odin of the threat then Loki (who would like nothing more then to have the opportunity to gain his fathers good favor and to be able to continue his manipulations without being hindered). So, I decided banishment to Muspellheim could work given where he would be in the film during the first Act (being punished) and more or less where he would need to be to learn of the events. I don't know if it's a great solution, but it's what I came up with.
Okay. I like how Loki's punishment manuvers him into a position where he has leverage again I think tricksters tend to get that kind of luck.

Now, from Odin's perspective, why Muspelheim? With regard to Thor's banishment, he probably figured, Midgard is pretty backwater. They can't harm him, and without his powers, he can't do much damage either. So it's a realively save place to park him so he can have his time-out. Muspelheim is a little bit more trecherous, though. What is Odin's endgame? Is it to cause Loki to suffer? To keep him from harming the cosmos? To give him a situation where he would be challenged and have to reflect on his past behavior? (This was the effect that Thor's inability to lift Mjolnir in the film had, of course).


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In addition I would like to comment that I thought we had gotten confirmation that all 9 realms are suppose to be shown in this film, because I hear several people stating that it is too much. If it has not been confirmed then perhaps they are right and we will not see Alfheim or Vanaheim in this film. However, I was under the impression confirmation of all 9 realms being shown was made, and if that is the case in my version it would actually still be missing realms that require explaining.
I had heard that, and I wonder the same thing. <shrug>

But if you want more realms than can fit in a film, well, we can just think of this as your version of the story

Maybe elizah72 can help me with that, as she is good at filling in the gaps and thinking outside the box.


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As for why I didn't show Algrim's transformation into Kurse. Plain and simple just felt it would take up to much time seeing Algrim battle Thor, having him be betrayed by Malekith, having him loose his memory of what actually happened, turn into Kurse blaming Thor, have him return to battle Thor, have him regain his memory, and have him kill Malekith. I just think if someone looses there memory it is generally a slow process for someone to regain it. Which is fine in comics, because Kurse can be searching for Thor and have many battles with him through 100's of comics before coming to the realization that Thor was not responsible and then go after Malekith and kill him. However, in a movie where Malekith and the Dark elves are invading earth you can't have it seem like he has lost his memory for a long duration. So, I changed aspects of the character to fit with the flow of the story I created trying to leave elements of the character intact when possible.
However, as I have said many times previously I am all for sticking with the character origins, so if they can figure out a way to do it and fit it within the context of the film without it feeling forced then that's what I would like to see.
Fair enough.

Here's an idea to address the memory thing: maybe the amnesia is some sort of spell. Then it can be broken and Kurse gets a flood of memories back, and realize that it is Malekith that he should go after!


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As for your comment about Thor being weaker against magic, some might consider Thor's ability to call upon lightning as a magic of sorts. However, I would agree Thor is a warrior mostly and he can stand up to some of the strongest physical characters in the Marvel Universe and it would make sense that he does not fair as well against characters of a magical nature like his brother Loki or Malekith. So, yeah I am really looking forward to this battle of might vs. magic, especially since with Loki you always feel like Thor is holding back some because it's his brother, but with Malekith the battle should be brutal and unrelenting.
You're right--the lightning is a magical ability. It seems like people were saying that Thor isn't as capable against a magic-using opponent. But maybe he's able to overcome magical attacks sheerly through his toughness.


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As for your comments about Thor deserting Asgard and his choice being responsible for lots of destruction. Yeah, I think that you and elizah72 are absolutely correct about the moral sacrifice tease on the side of the bus and what it most likely means for Thor and Asgard. So, basically built from there.
Well, to give credit where it is due, Elizah put the idea forward first. My first response was skepticism, that it probably was an Easter Egg. But I also like big philosophical themes in movies, and this idea works very well with the other things we've heard. So now I've climbed aboard that bus

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Regarding why I choose not to kill off Odin. Well 2 reasons. I really like having Odin be the ruler and most powerful Asgardian, because if you kill off Odin and Thor takes on the Odinforce then his battles with Loki and most other villians like the Enchantress, or the Executioner would be very one sided battles in favor of Thor. In order for the movies to continue to be enjoyable I would say he needs to keep his battles more evenly matched. In addition the movie requires someone to defeat Surtur, and even if someone said well Thor with the Odinforce could do it, well to me it would not be enough. Odin has had his powers for a long period of time and has had a chance to know how to use his powers, so in my opinion Thor with the Odin force (just being given the powers) would not be as powerful as Odin himself, and even Odin is struggling to battle with Surtur. So, I don't think Thor could stop Surtur even with the Odinforce if it was just newly given to him.
That's a good reason!

Well, thanks again. I wish I could come up with something. I feel like I'm benefiting from everyone else's work without pitching in myself.

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Old 11-19-2012, 07:13 PM   #106
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elizah72,

Here is the picture you were looking for showing the 9 realms from the movie Thor.

http://images.wikia.com/marveldataba...ine_Realms.jpg

It shows a different interpretation of the 9 realms from the link I provided, but that is why I said if they are keeping it accurate with the comics.

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Old 11-19-2012, 08:31 PM   #107
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As for Loki in Muspelheim and Surtur thing.
I find it unlikely to happen for couple of reasons

1) In the end of Thor1 Loki falls into wormhole, he doesn't know what's in there, what to expect and still in Avengers we see him appearing with the whole army. That means the guy can get out of pretty much any situation, find allies anywhere and make it his own way, I think it was made pretty clear in the MCU, so to me, sending him somewhere (even such hellish place as Muspelheim) is kinda letting him go.
Well, of course not completely but Odin would knew there would be possibilities for Loki to turn situation around, that's kinda danger and something you wouldnt want to happen if you punishing/imprisoning someone, there is a path to escape. Plus, simply sending him to another realm means that you can't keep a eye on him.
In Thor1 Loki said to Heimdall that he knows secret pathways between realms, even Heimdall doesn't know about, that's how he brings Frost Giants to Asgard. So sending him somewhere as a punishment is not a option.
Odin would want to keep him close.

2) Loki warning Odin about Surtur, well I simply doubt that) As I see Loki, he would better wait till half Asgard destroyed only to appear later as a true hero saving everyone, helping Odin the last minute or just figuring out what to do (that's his thing) , but I might be wrong on that one.

3) Frigga must comfort him, they're definitely having a conversation, and she assures him that he is loved and part of the family once again.
And it looks strange to me that after such a conversation Loki would be send to place like Muspelheim, imprisonment in Asgard is different kind of thing.
So it might be that after he talks to Frigga he realizes he was wrong (plus it's suggested that his rage and hate was powered up by the scepter (or gem in it). He is needed to help odin and Thor and that's his short redemption, which of course after Frigga is killed he forgets and maybe (I don't know how exactly) betrays Thor and odin's trust at the end and set to be one of the villains for the third part.

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Old 11-19-2012, 08:48 PM   #108
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3) Frigga must comfort him, they're definitely having a conversation, and she assures him that he is loved and part of the family once again.
And it looks strange to me that after such a conversation Loki would be send to place like Muspelheim, imprisonment in Asgard is different kind of thing.
So it might be that after he talks to Frigga he realizes he was wrong (plus it's suggested that his rage and hate was powered up by the scepter (or gem in it). He is needed to help odin and Thor and that's his short redemption, which of course after Frigga is killed he forgets and maybe (I don't know how exactly) betrays Thor and odin's trust at the end and set to be one of the villains for the third part.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Do you think Frigga can reach him? I see you said he might realize he was wrong, but I don't know if you were just referring to his actions in the Avengers or everything. Can Frigga set him on a different path or will he still be defiant and oppositional to his father and brother (even while knowing he was wrong, assuming he realizes that)? How much do you think her death would affect him?

FWIW, I think Frigga can have an influence, but it's not clear that will be enough, especially given the limited screen time she must surely have in the film.

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Old 11-19-2012, 09:05 PM   #109
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Look, obviously it's up to the writers, director, producers, whether she gets through to him or not... but I for one really hope she does, because if she is going to go I want her to have a strong impact on at least one of the arcs of this movie. Especially when so much of her was cut from Thor 1. She just has to go out making an impact, it's got to mean something. And I, for one, think it will.

Speaking of which, reposting the Renee Russo Frigga interview where she talks a little about this (from last August I think...)
http://screenrant.com/thor-2-the-dark-world-rene-russo/

and since I just found the old "casting calls" stuff on screenrant.com reposting that here too for reference and ideas...

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Girls with “Hot Bodies” to be extras for major movie

This is for a new major action movie shooting in London in September.
If you fit the brief please apply on line with a photo that shows your full body. (Bikini or underwear)
Must have “Hot Body” by that we mean attractive figure and you are comfortable wearing bikini or skimpy costume on set.
Aged between 18 and 35
Dress size between 6 and 12
Any ethnicity
Be generally available in September in London

Women with Military experience aged 18 to 50

We are looking for women who match this brief:
Have had military experience, either Territorial or regular (You must be able to march in formation)
Aged between 18 – 50
Any ethnicity
Be generally available between September and December in London & the South East of England

Men with Military experience aged 18 to 50

We are looking for men who match this brief:
Have had military experience, either Territorial or regular (You must be able to march in formation)
Aged between 18 – 50
Any ethnicity
Be generally available between September and December in London & the South East of England

Extreme looking men and women

We are also looking for people with an unusual and interesting look/character. For Example Facial scars, Facial Birthmarks, Teeth missing, Facial disfigurement, Heavy facial piercings, Strong characterful faces, Weathered looking, Large Ears, Large Noses, Ugly, Bits missing etc
You can be of any Ethnicity
Be generally available between August – November and able to work in London & the South East of England

Natural Blonde Men & Women wanted

To apply you must match this brief:
NATURAL BLONDE Men and women of all ages (over 16)
You must have natural un-dyed hair with no highlights
Be generally available between August – November

Heavily tattooed men and women

You must be HEAVILY tattooed over your body
We would love to find people with tattoos on their faces in particular
You can be of any Ethnicity
You will need to be fit enough to run around
Be generally available between August – November and able to work in London & the South East of England

Men of Fire

For the a new Marvel Super Hero feature film we are looking for men who are skilled in playing with fire to pretend to be warriors.
You must be highly skilled with playing with fire example skills include – Spinning, Fire Sticks, Fire Breathing, Fire eating etc.

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Old 11-19-2012, 09:07 PM   #110
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Well by saying 'wrong" I meant he exaggerated things A LOT. We know Thor loves him as brother, and Loki definitely have brother's feeling for him too. As for Frigga - he never doubted she loves him, in movies she is much better than in comic book. So I think she has a lot of influence on him in this way. It's just seems very simple and understandable plot twist (although not new or super creative) to make her kinda one thing that holds him and makes him believe everything is OK and there is way back. Because I have no doubt she will forgive him. That's the time he helps Thor, of course I'm not saying he will forget everything (being a shadow and all) but I guess he will give it chance.

And I don't think they told everyone around that he is frost giant and villain. In the end of Thor even Sif said to Frigga that she is sorry for her loss, so they see it as a loss not "thanks God we found out what he is and good this bastard is gone"
As for Avengers - well, the same here, I doubt the whole realm even knows that's happened and that they hate him for attempt to rule Midgard.

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Old 11-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #111
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Yes. It's good to talk about all of the possibilities, since we can't get into the brain of the writers and director and producers and we dont know what they are interested in showing. We have a whole year to wait, no sense in limiting what we are going to discuss so early. And the speculation is that most if not all 9 realms will be represented, so no harm in trying to figure out how that might work and fit into a 2 hour movie.

We certainly won't have it completely right but it's fun trying.

jaqua99 and cherokeesam:

*sigh* okay.... so, are you guys saying, if I am to understand correctly, that brilliant, manipulative, self centered, self preservationist, Loki, is actually stupid enough and suicidal enough to place his life in mortal danger by going to Jotunheim with Thor and co at the beginning of the film as part of his grand master plan to get the throne? Because that shows a great deal of stupidity on his part and again makes him suicidal (although he was that in the end). He had no way of knowing that he would survive that trip as it was clearly foreshadowed by the trepidation of Sif and the Warriors 3. And so he and the others going on that trip, the one that started the impending war, was most definitely not his plan. Did he manipulate in other places? Sure. But that part, the war itself, definitely not. A truly wise manipulator would have planned that Jotunheim part out well ahead of time, and very definitely would have planned an airtight excuse for why he couldn't go down to Jotunheim (I think I hear mother calling! I better stay behind so they dont get suspcious! etc...). So, in that case, if it was all along his perfectly planned out plan to have Thor go down and start a war with Jotunheim, then Thor and co would have gone down without him, and either died, or Loki would have tattled on them and saved them but then the war would have been started and Loki would be looking mighty good as a potential heir for not going with them. That's another thing. Loki went without much argument or trying to weasel out of it, and so was a part of it. This was certainly risking that Odin would be angry with him as well (which he was). So again, pretty dumb on Loki's part if that was his plan all along. And I give him credit for being A LOT smarter than that.

But I digress, they did go down all together, and what happened when they were down there? Here is where you should watch again because you apparently missed this very important exchange:

LOKI
Thor, stop and think. Look around
you. We are outnumbered.

THOR
Know your place, brother...

LAUFEY
You know not what your actions
would unleash. I do. Go now, while I still
allow it.

Thor simmers. Loki speaks up.

LOKI
We will accept your most gracious
offer.
The others look to Thor imploringly. Thor stares Laufey down
a beat -- then relents. He turns to leave. His comrades
breathe a sigh of relief and follow, when a Frost Giant
nearby mutters under his breath.

JOTUN
Run back home, little princess.
Thor stops in his tracks. Loki goes white. He knows what's
coming.

LOKI
Damn.
In one quick move, Thor pulls Mjolnir, swings it, and KNOCKS
the Jotun clear across the plaza.

This is from the online script by the way (to save me some time), but again, clearly, the plan all along was not to be on Jotunheim risking life and limb to purposely start a war, that he will likely NOT benefit from, since he has a pretty good chance of dying there (along with the rest of them) in this scenario. Again I point out, a truly intelligent manipulator would have known the mortal danger of going down there and found a way to get himself out of it pretty fast, if that was his plan all along. And not only that, he tried to stop Thor, keep the peace and walk away, and Thor couldn't keep his temper in check, despite the danger to him and his friends and brother.

I could actually do a LOOOONG step by step description of his manipulations and motivations in Thor 1, as I see it, to explain it all to you further but I'd rather get back to speculating here about Thor 2. If it's all right with you two. Perhaps go over to the Loki thread if you want to continue this topic with me, so we can get back to Thor 2 here. Ok?

Just so you know I get just as fired up when people who LOVE Loki a little too much start hating on Odin and Thor and blast them for their treatment of him. The truth is somewhere in between with any of these characters, which I suppose is what makes them so interesting to me. If it was all black and white I wouldn't care to debate the characters motivations.



Well at least we agree on that.



ok, fair enough



I suggested that a while ago, that maybe after the credits they'd have a scene where Thanos or his henchmen grab Loki, or maybe grab something in Odin's vault with Loki's help to lead in to Avengers 2. But someone said no way Thanos would show up, he's to be saved for Avengers 2. (that might have been jaqua99 that said that actually! can't remember for sure ) I still think it's entirely possible for the after credits scene leading into A2, yes. I still dont agree that he's going to have a Marauder army attacking Asgard at this point though.

I didnt see the Other at Bourne, I saw some creatures that look similar but they dont have the pointy chin he does (or all the stuff over his face). What I've seen doesn't quite look enough like him so I'm going with he's not there, and those are possibly trolls.
I wrote up a whole response to the loki thing, and you would actually probably understand, but you are right, thor 2 is this movie, and there is no point discussing that anymore. I'll just say that Loki's motives were to gain the throne and be accepted by his father like thor, that was his motive, but everything that happened, was due to his manipulation and "risk taking" (taking risks isn't stupid, especially when it works), the reason for this manipulation was to work his way into approval in Odin's eyes. But don't even bother responding to this loki thing, because I agree, we should talk about thor 2, and you probably have better will power than I do, if you respond, I will no doubt keep *that* discussion going lol.

wi With as much going on in this thread as it is, we can't afford any derailed trains lol.

I am not sure about the other, I think it could have been simply someone a part of that army.

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Look, obviously it's up to the writers, director, producers, whether she gets through to him or not... but I for one really hope she does, because if she is going to go I want her to have a strong impact on at least one of the arcs of this movie. Especially when so much of her was cut from Thor 1. She just has to go out making an impact, it's got to mean something. And I, for one, think it will.

Speaking of which, reposting the Renee Russo Frigga interview where she talks a little about this (from last August I think...)
http://screenrant.com/thor-2-the-dark-world-rene-russo/

and since I just found the old "casting calls" stuff on screenrant.com reposting that here too for reference and ideas...
SOOO much stuff, we probably will be seeing the realms. And men of fire...Surtur's demons?

also, someone in another thread mentioned Loki transforming algrim into kurse, and tricking him into thinking thor did it to him. I would LOVE that

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Old 11-19-2012, 10:53 PM   #112
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jaqua99 and cherokeesam:

*sigh* okay.... so, are you guys saying, if I am to understand correctly, that brilliant, manipulative, self centered, self preservationist, Loki, is actually stupid enough and suicidal enough to place his life in mortal danger by going to Jotunheim with Thor and co at the beginning of the film as part of his grand master plan to get the throne? Because that shows a great deal of stupidity on his part and again makes him suicidal (although he was that in the end). He had no way of knowing that he would survive that trip as it was clearly foreshadowed by the trepidation of Sif and the Warriors 3. And so he and the others going on that trip, the one that started the impending war, was most definitely not his plan. Did he manipulate in other places? Sure. But that part, the war itself, definitely not. A truly wise manipulator would have planned that Jotunheim part out well ahead of time, and very definitely would have planned an airtight excuse for why he couldn't go down to Jotunheim.
Yes: Loki is stupid. Very stupid. In both Thor and Avengers. But not in *his* mind. He's not a "wise manipulator": he even says so himself in Thor 1, "Who said I was wise?"

He takes a LOT of gambles without thinking them through, and then just tries to roll with the punches when they go south on him. Any one of his schemes could (and many did) backfire --- yes, the Frost Giants on Jotunheim could've slaughtered him and everyone else in the commando raid; Odin could've caught wind of the raid and stopped it beforehand, thus ending almost *all* of Loki's subsequent schemes with Thor making Daddy proud as the new king; Heimdall's all-seeing eye could've caught Loki red-handed in many different situations; Laufey could've easily succeeded in murdering Odin in his sleep, causing Loki's theatrical heroics to flop dismally; and so on.

Hell, Avengers was a complete comedy of errors for Loki --- he wound up getting outwitted, challenged and defeated at every turn by every one from Black Widow to Hulk to Tony Stark. His mind control spells were practically useless --- Widow was able to snap Hawkeye out of it with a good swift roundhouse kick to the noggin; the heroes were able to quickly figure out that the Spear was the real source of their internal squabblings; and heck, he couldn't even sway a random old Jewish guy in Stuttgart who stood up and heckled him. Not to mention that he got his ass kicked and lost an entire freakin' army several centuries more advanced than anything on Earth to a mere half-dozen guys and gals in funny suits. And even further, he didn't even realize that he was being manipulated the whole time by the very "gangster lord of the Nine Realms" he had been trading with.

Yes, Loki is a master manipulator; but he is a poor, poor planner. He does things on the fly, on the spur of the moment, according to his whim. That's what makes him a god of mischief, not a god of elaborate schemes.

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Old 11-20-2012, 12:05 AM   #113
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Yes: Loki is stupid. Very stupid. In both Thor and Avengers. But not in *his* mind. He's not a "wise manipulator": he even says so himself in Thor 1, "Who said I was wise?"

He takes a LOT of gambles without thinking them through, and then just tries to roll with the punches when they go south on him. Any one of his schemes could (and many did) backfire --- yes, the Frost Giants on Jotunheim could've slaughtered him and everyone else in the commando raid; Odin could've caught wind of the raid and stopped it beforehand, thus ending almost *all* of Loki's subsequent schemes with Thor making Daddy proud as the new king; Heimdall's all-seeing eye could've caught Loki red-handed in many different situations; Laufey could've easily succeeded in murdering Odin in his sleep, causing Loki's theatrical heroics to flop dismally; and so on.

Hell, Avengers was a complete comedy of errors for Loki --- he wound up getting outwitted, challenged and defeated at every turn by every one from Black Widow to Hulk to Tony Stark. His mind control spells were practically useless --- Widow was able to snap Hawkeye out of it with a good swift roundhouse kick to the noggin; the heroes were able to quickly figure out that the Spear was the real source of their internal squabblings; and heck, he couldn't even sway a random old Jewish guy in Stuttgart who stood up and heckled him. Not to mention that he got his ass kicked and lost an entire freakin' army several centuries more advanced than anything on Earth to a mere half-dozen guys and gals in funny suits. And even further, he didn't even realize that he was being manipulated the whole time by the very "gangster lord of the Nine Realms" he had been trading with.

Yes, Loki is a master manipulator; but he is a poor, poor planner. He does things on the fly, on the spur of the moment, according to his whim. That's what makes him a god of mischief, not a god of elaborate schemes.
Some of your comments made me really laugh, but in reality most of what you said is absolutely true. Lol

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Old 11-20-2012, 07:00 AM   #114
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With as much going on in this thread as it is, we can't afford any derailed trains lol.
yes.

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I am not sure about the other, I think it could have been simply someone a part of that army.

SOOO much stuff, we probably will be seeing the realms. And men of fire...Surtur's demons?
See my thought is that those guys will be CGI probably, it seems rather dangerous to make these people up with probably flammable material and then have them handing a lot of real fire. My thinking is it might have been for part of the Bourne woods stuff, there was places on fire there.

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also, someone in another thread mentioned Loki transforming algrim into kurse, and tricking him into thinking thor did it to him. I would LOVE that
well work it into a summary! You know I wont. LOL But I wouldnt argue that it was plausible with use of the tesseract or other magical item.

One thing I'm not pleased with my draft is not enough Loki manipulating and crossing and double crossing, dont think I'd go that far but like I said, plausible if that's the direction they go in with the character in the end.

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Yes: Loki is stupid. Very stupid. In both Thor and Avengers.
Okay, just so I understand your POV. LOL

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:16 AM   #115
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Yes: Loki is stupid. Very stupid. In both Thor and Avengers...........
and your quote from the other thread

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let me give you the short answer first: Loki is traditionally a villain. Thor is traditionally a hero. Period.
and you are right, and not going into discussion about Loki as a character in general, but only looking at these specific movies - well, what do you expect then? The villain can't win, so it's quite weird to blame him for this.

And I personally think Black Widow as a part of the team Avengers was simply given that "victory moments" to make her equal in some way to Iron man or Hulk, like "look, she can't really fight like other guys, but she is not useless".

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:22 AM   #116
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and your quote from the other thread

and you are right, and not going into discussion about Loki as a character in general, but only looking at these specific movies - well, what do you expect then? The villain can't win, so it's quite weird to blame him for this.

And I personally think Black Widow as a part of the team Avengers was simply given that "victory moments" to make her equal in some way to Iron man or Hulk, like "look, she can't really fight like other guys, but she is not useless".
Can we keep this in the Loki thread, please? I really dont want this thread to continue to get sidetracked. We need to think Thor 2, not what's happened in the past. And it seems like BW is not part of Thor 2 so definitely off topic here.

I personally think a lot of different things can happen in Thor 2, but we do need to keep true to the characterizations that have been shown so far, in regards to that, and how that might change or not change and why. Which is I suppose why the conversations started, but now we need to move on, and agree to disagree at this point in regards to a certain mischievous antagonist.

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:37 AM   #117
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Okay so new topic. Tyr, how do you think he will play into all of this?

I'm of the opinion he may be among the dead warriors, either on the good side or bad, I also think he's going to wind up being Odin's brother not Thor's in MCU. I think this partially because of the "first born" line in Thor and partially because I think if they take Tyr and Odin as brothers and paralell their relationship with Thor and Loki's it is going to be absolutely *fascinating* to watch how that all plays out. But that's JMO, and I'm still not sure what side he'll be on at this point.

More info about Tyr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BDr
Mythology, lists him as God of law, and the Althing so that's interesting. Huh, American Maid?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyr_(Marvel_Comics) Tyr in the comics seems to be more of a bad guy, occationally good guy, and apparently he had a thing for Sif. That's interesting.

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:50 AM   #118
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It might be of no value, but I thought I'd share anyway.
there is a Marvel movies wiki, and in Loki's article, under "Allies" listed Tyr, as older brother, the bitter moment is that everyone can edit these articles. The entry for Tyr is empty, only actor listed. So idk.. Why would anyone want to do that.

I think, maybe Tyr will side with Loki, at least be the one with the opinion that the punishment shouldn't be very strict. Tom said everyone there will have an opinion, so..

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:56 AM   #119
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yes.



See my thought is that those guys will be CGI probably, it seems rather dangerous to make these people up with probably flammable material and then have them handing a lot of real fire. My thinking is it might have been for part of the Bourne woods stuff, there was places on fire there.



well work it into a summary! You know I wont. LOL But I wouldnt argue that it was plausible with use of the tesseract or other magical item.

One thing I'm not pleased with my draft is not enough Loki manipulating and crossing and double crossing, dont think I'd go that far but like I said, plausible if that's the direction they go in with the character in the end.



Okay, just so I understand your POV. LOL
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It might be of no value, but I thought I'd share anyway.
there is a Marvel movies wiki, and in Loki's article, under "Allies" listed Tyr, as older brother, the bitter moment is that everyone can edit these articles. The entry for Tyr is empty, only actor listed. So idk.. Why would anyone want to do that.

I think, maybe Tyr will side with Loki, at least be the one with the opinion that the punishment shouldn't be very strict. Tom said everyone there will have an opinion, so..
hmmmmm. Odin did say Thor was his first born..

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Old 11-20-2012, 11:43 AM   #120
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It might be of no value, but I thought I'd share anyway.
there is a Marvel movies wiki, and in Loki's article, under "Allies" listed Tyr, as older brother, the bitter moment is that everyone can edit these articles. The entry for Tyr is empty, only actor listed. So idk.. Why would anyone want to do that.

I think, maybe Tyr will side with Loki, at least be the one with the opinion that the punishment shouldn't be very strict. Tom said everyone there will have an opinion, so..
I think the wiki some random person just put something in without knowing. No one knows his part yet. He has allied with Loki in the comics at least once that I know of. But other times not.

When his name first came up I saw that God of Law and Justice thing I wondered if he could oversee the proceedings if they do show Loki being tried. But then I wrote it off as something that would drag down the rest of the movie, to show that (or at least not more than a short scene of it). But on the other hand, as far as punishment for Loki, I think one scenario could be that Odin does not have control over how he's punished, he punished Thor quickly, but he may not have control over it with Loki and so could set up a harsher punishment for him that way. The likelihood though, in this case is Tyr may not be shown as related to them at all. Plus I would have thought this actor might have a bigger part, and there is the whole thing with his 1 hand, which he may or may not have, and why would they choose a character, that is known as a member of that family, and not make him a member of the family and have some impact on that story. So... I dont know. Tom's quote from that recent interview "everybody upstairs in space has an opinion" makes me think that is a possibility, that he is simply the "god of law and justice" and maybe the Althing as well. But that seems like that's all very different from comics Tyr.

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Old 11-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #121
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hmmmmm. Odin did say Thor was his first born..
Well, that is a problem, if they decide to follow this line, it is only logical to make him Odin’s brother and I really like elizah72’s idea to parallel their relationship with Thor and Loki’s. I think that’s the reason they eliminated Balder from the movies, to emphasize Thor-Loki line, and now introducing another brother is like ????
Unless there is logical explanation why Tyr is older and not first in line for the throne
This is from the marvel wiki about Tyr

Quote:
Later, a new god named Thor was born and became the new defender of Asgard, replacing Tyr in that role. Tyr has been resentful since. He distanced himself from his fellow gods only appearing when Asgard was in danger. His presence came to be seen as a sign that battle and the chance for glory were near.
So Tyr still could be Thor and Loki’s brother, rejected by Odin for some reason, hmm… who is his mother? Wiki says Saga, I never heard about her, maybe Tyr is older but Odin’s bastard son, and line “my first born” means first born by rightful queen Frigga, because in MCU they never mentioned that Frigga is not Thor’s real mother, making it only worse for Loki. And Loki was adopted, but it seems no one knew about this, so he is second in line coz everyone think he is Odin and Frigga’s son,king and queen of Asgard.
Plus, Odin never intended to make anyone his successor except Thor
So Tyr might team up with Loki, not coz he likes him, but because he doesn’t like Thor. And he is God of War, so no sentiments here, he actually might not even see why the heck to punish Loki for attempt to conquer Midgard.


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Old 11-20-2012, 12:26 PM   #122
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Just dropping this in here for possible discussion. And of course good news is that Tom was sighted on set today, but no pictures of him in costume yet. And wooboy, my summary needs all kinds of reworking right now.

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Some intersting stuff reported here with pictures...

http://princehals.tumblr.com/post/36...rld-set-update

In regards to tall skinny guy mentioned and pictured in this report. Could be this guy...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1401022/ who plays new character Ian Boothby

SO my take on it, based on her brief description here, is that this guy is Ian Boothby (definitely not Loki, he's a better dresser ) or some other guy, who is a love interest for Darcy, and then falls to the ground part, could be that happens and he's shot by elves or something. it's all just a guess.

and the other guy who jumps on Thor could be Loki (or Tom's stuntman which would explain why he wasn't recognized) or someone else, unclear. (edited after I realized she was talking about 2 different guys )

edit: and adding this interesting bit of info as well (credit to herolee for first reporting)
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Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
On another note, they actually released the alternate ending to Thor online officially.
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/11/2...one-phase-two/

So American Maid your idea about what Jane is doing seems more and more likely. Good job!


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Old 11-20-2012, 01:35 PM   #123
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Well, that is a problem, if they decide to follow this line, it is only logical to make him Odin’s brother and I really like elizah72’s idea to parallel their relationship with Thor and Loki’s. I think that’s the reason they eliminated Balder from the movies, to emphasize Thor-Loki line, and now introducing another brother is like ????
Unless there is logical explanation why Tyr is older and not first in line for the throne
This is from the marvel wiki about Tyr

So Tyr still could be Thor and Loki’s brother, rejected by Odin for some reason, hmm… who is his mother? Wiki says Saga, I never heard about her, maybe Tyr is older but Odin’s bastard son, and line “my first born” means first born by rightful queen Frigga, because in MCU they never mentioned that Frigga is not Thor’s real mother, making it only worse for Loki. And Loki was adopted, but it seems no one knew about this, so he is second in line coz everyone think he is Odin and Frigga’s son,king and queen of Asgard.
Plus, Odin never intended to make anyone his successor except Thor
So Tyr might team up with Loki, not coz he likes him, but because he doesn’t like Thor. And he is God of War, so no sentiments here, he actually might not even see why the heck to punish Loki for attempt to conquer Midgard.
could be regected. May out of jealousy, he attacked Thor, bitterly, Thor being the most powerful of the two defeats him, and he leaves, and is rejected by Odin?

I for one would like to see Odin's past, and power explored. I can quote loki referring to Odin in the MCU as "the most powerful being in the 9 realms", I want to see some of that.



I remember when I frst started reading comics, and thor was the most powerful hero, I refused to admit anyone was more powerful, I hated the fact that his own father was more powerful than him, and refused to bbelieve it, oh I was a fool. Hell, I even neglected Thanos being more powerful :P

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:08 PM   #124
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So American Maid your idea about what Jane is doing seems more and more likely. Good job!
!!!!!!!!!! Suspense is killing me!!

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #125
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and the other guy who jumps on Thor could be Loki (or Tom's stuntman which would explain why he wasn't recognized) or someone else, unclear. (edited after I realized she was talking about 2 different guys
So, I thought the footage Frigga posted suggested that it is Malekith he is pushing back out of frame.

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edit: and adding this interesting bit of info as well (credit to herolee for first reporting)
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Originally Posted by herolee10
On another note, they actually released the alternate ending to Thor online officially.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/11/2...one-phase-two/

So American Maid your idea about what Jane is doing seems more and more likely. Good job!
Remembered I have earphones in my bag

And regarding the footage:
It's in the on-line script. Cool to see that they filmed it. I hadn't realized there's a beam that shoots into space.

Just think how much the research might have advanced in 2 years!

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