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Old 11-14-2012, 09:09 PM   #1
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Default Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

Let's just consider it for a moment. It's silly - I'm well aware of that. But just think about the writing of the two movies, the arc of them, and let your mind wander.

Joker: When the chips are down, these civilized people... they'll eat each other.
See, I'm not not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.


He's truly ahead of the curve, because in that interrogation room, Joker seems to tell Batman everything that's about to happen in The Dark Knight Rises. They cast Batman out, like a leper. They needed him right now, but when they didn't... they cast him out.

When Joker's dangling upside down at the end:

Batman: This city just showed you that it's full of people ready to believe in good.

Joker: Until their spirit breaks completely. .... when they get a look at the Real Harvey Dent.

Gotham gets a look at the real Harvey Dent, provided by Bane, and Gotham's spirit breaks completely.

Now, I know this isn't going to fly on these boards, and you'll all view me as a total moron, but just consider the argument one last time.

Joker knew a storm was coming. He was aware of an event happening in the near future, and he was having a ball with it. He was putting in his time, having fun, because he knew everything was about to crumble. Now, is this to say that Joker knew Bane personally? Absolutely not. I'd imagine they never saw each other or exchanged words. But I absolutely think that Joker knew that Bane existed out there somewhere, just like Crane knew about Ra's Al Ghul coming to Gotham.

I'd say Joker's last hoorah before the collapse was dressing up like a clown and mocking society, being a mirror of all the clowns he saw on Wall Street and in Washington D.C., and he had his own fun clowning around... because he knew the end was close, anyway.

Just an idea. Have fun with it.

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Old 11-15-2012, 12:39 AM   #2
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

It's an interesting theory, but I think the Joker knew at some point the truth about Harvey would come out. The Joker really didn't know Harvey's intentions at that point in time either. He probably figured Harvey's rampage wouldn't go unnoticed.

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Old 11-15-2012, 06:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

All of this was based on Joker's belief that he could;

1. Break Gotham's people on the ferries by forcing them to blow each other up

or

2. Break them by destroying hope via tearing down their White Knight, Harvey Dent, and all the good work he did for Gotham

Bane wasn't even in mind when TDK's script was being written.

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Old 11-15-2012, 12:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

That's right. I don't think the Joker was referring to Bane's invasion, he was giving his point of view on mankind and how he was going to prove it.

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Old 11-15-2012, 11:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

But, my Joker foreshadowing his thoughts he knew someone like Bane existed. But no he didn't know bane personally

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Old 11-16-2012, 12:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

Yeah, Joker is proven right in the end, but no way he was expecting 8 years to pass before the truth about Dent came out. The Joker accurately predicted most people's actions in TDK, but two major ones he didn't were the ferries choosing to not kill each other and the Batman taking the fall for Harvey. He was expecting the truth about Dent to come out imminently, but with the noble lie Batman is able to prevent the Joker from winning.

We have no way of knowing whether Joker had heard of a new LOS plot or Bane (I'd guess not) but even if he did, that has nothing to do with his own plan for Harvey.

The idea that The Joker decides to take action because he knows Gotham is doomed anyway and sees it as a big gag is an interesting notion, but I prefer to think of him as a force of nature all his own and that's definitely how TDK portrays him.

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Old 11-20-2012, 11:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

What's interesting is let's say Jokers plan worked...which could mean he either ruled Gotham and doesn't get locked up. Or his ace in the hole, Two-Face roams around for a while longer. It becomes like Arkham City, and Joker escapes. It's havoc in Gotham for years and Joker is the ruler.

Bane and Talia would have still arrived in Gotham to seek revenge on Batman, and to finish the mission that Ras began. They would have probably came in sooner if Gotham was worse than ever, with freaks running around. Batman having to juggle all these rogues, especially the Joker.

What's interesting is Bane and Talia could have almost been the good guys coming to wipe out the freaks. I bet Bane would have physically destroyed the Joker and locked him up or killed him. Until it was Bane and Batman left at the end, with Talia trying to blow the city to pieces with that bomb.

I LOVE what we got in TDKR, but if the outcome of Dark Knight was a little different (add to that, Heath Ledger not dying) the 3rd movie could have been pretty intense. In a whole different way. Same kinda thing, but no 8 year absence from Batman, dozens of rogue appearances, a returning Joker/Heath in a small role, with Bane/Talia at the center of it.

But i dont think Joker knew of Bane what so ever. It's a cool thought, but i think he was focused on Harvey Dent. He was right about a lot of things in Rises, but he was wrong about a number of things too.

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Old 11-20-2012, 08:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

Joker didn't know squat about Bane's existence.

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Old 11-21-2012, 12:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudgie View Post
Joker didn't know squat about Bane's existence.
Well, I suppose that settles it.

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Old 01-17-2013, 02:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

Crane knew about Ra's Al Ghul because he was working for him.

There is no indication whatsoever or any plausible way for The Joker to know anything about Bane.

He was referring to the truth about Harvey Dent being exposed, but I don't think he expected it to take eight years, or for Batman and Gordon to cover it up, especially since he referred to Batman as incorruptible.

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Old 02-07-2013, 02:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

[off subject] Selina Kyle also knew a "storm" was coming to Gotham City.

So did she know of Bane and Talia's plan? [/off subject]

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Old 02-07-2013, 06:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

Selina Kyle's knowledge of Bane seems like something they left on the cutting room floor. I always felt it was slightly under explained.

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Old 02-08-2013, 12:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

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Originally Posted by KangConquers View Post
Selina Kyle's knowledge of Bane seems like something they left on the cutting room floor. I always felt it was slightly under explained.
Selina would have known about Bane because she was a denizen of Gotham's underworld and he was gaining power, recruiting workers in the sewers and such (the orphan Blake talks to says as much). It was clear she was working for Bane through most of the film because she thought she believed in his plan.

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Old 02-12-2013, 08:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

The theories of the OP hold some truth.

But I do not think Joker meant or was referring to Bane. The writers did not even know Bane was going to be the villain in the conclusion.

I just think the points he OP made were foreshadowing the 3rd installment. The Joker could have been referring to other potential enemies. Twoface was suppose to be the third villain the Joker meant, maybe the Riddler.

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Old 02-13-2013, 10:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

i still want to know how Alfred knew about Bane. that really bugged me when he started talking about him.

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Old 02-13-2013, 10:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

He investigated. He is Batman's Batman dammit!

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Old 02-15-2013, 03:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: Joker Knew of Bane's Existence.

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Originally Posted by Ant-manic View Post
i still want to know how Alfred knew about Bane. that really bugged me when he started talking about him.
Don't you know? Bane's break up with Ras was a viral sensation.

As for the topic, I'm sure the Joker wasn't expecting Batman to one up him and cover up Dent's crimes. He wasn't expecting the citizens of Gotham to one up him either by not blowing up the other ferry either. You see, the Joker, despite his best efforts, is in fact not a future seer.

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