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Old 11-11-2012, 03:57 PM   #251
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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"Coming out the same year" doesn't matter nearly as much as "coming out the same day as the Peanuts movie." Things in the immediate vicinity of a film impact it much more than things that may or may not even be in the theaters when Ant-Man is released.

That said, I agree. On paper, Ant-Man is a very lame concept. Marvel has an uphill battle with the property, and getting the general audience into theaters.
Personally i would love to see a Shaun of the Dead style movie but instead with Zombies..how about Superheroes

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Old 11-11-2012, 04:36 PM   #252
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I think conventional wisdom says if either of these movies make enough money to justify a sequel, then you give the film a reason to exist.
If anything, imo, I think the conventional wisdom will go to which film is more necessary. If Avengers 3 is going to deal with Ultron, an Ant-Man 2 would be a better choice, but if Thanos still lives on past Avengers 2, GOTG 2 will be the better choice.

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Old 11-11-2012, 07:49 PM   #253
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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If anything, imo, I think the conventional wisdom will go to which film is more necessary. If Avengers 3 is going to deal with Ultron, an Ant-Man 2 would be a better choice, but if Thanos still lives on past Avengers 2, GOTG 2 will be the better choice.
Beyond acknowledging Ultron's existence there's no reason to tell a story setting him up. He's a robot that Hank Pym made. No reason that can't be covered in a few brief scenes in the first Ant-Man movie. There isn't much solo Hank Pym stuff that's worth covering; they seem to be adapting To Steal an Ant Man for the first one.

Whereas cosmic Marvel is huge, with dozens of big cinematic heroes and hundreds of issues worth of good to great material to pull from.

If literally the only reason you're making a movie is to set up another movie, it's probably not going to be very good

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Old 11-11-2012, 07:57 PM   #254
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Beyond acknowledging Ultron's existence there's no reason to tell a story setting him up. He's a robot that Hank Pym made. No reason that can't be covered in a few brief scenes in the first Ant-Man movie. There isn't much solo Hank Pym stuff that's worth covering; they seem to be adapting To Steal an Ant Man for the first one.

Whereas cosmic Marvel is huge, with dozens of big cinematic heroes and hundreds of issues worth of good to great material to pull from.

If literally the only reason you're making a movie is to set up another movie, it's probably not going to be very good
Ironically, isn't that what's going on with Guardians of the Galaxy? Setting up Thanos because I doubt we'll be seeing the Guardians in Avengers 2.

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Old 11-11-2012, 08:02 PM   #255
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Ironically, isn't that what's going on with Guardians of the Galaxy? Setting up Thanos because I doubt we'll be seeing the Guardians in Avengers 2.
No. The Guardians of the Galaxy comic (and the rest of those cosmic events) is the best thing to come out of Marvel in the past 5 years. Thanos is what's getting them through the proverbial door but the Guardians are ultimately much more than that.

A big space epic that they can also tie into their 1.5B monster hit. Win-win.

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Old 11-12-2012, 08:14 AM   #256
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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No. The Guardians of the Galaxy comic (and the rest of those cosmic events) is the best thing to come out of Marvel in the past 5 years. Thanos is what's getting them through the proverbial door but the Guardians are ultimately much more than that.

A big space epic that they can also tie into their 1.5B monster hit. Win-win.
Agreed. Guardians is Marvel's in to 45 years worth of cosmic stories on screen. The Guardians of the Galaxy franchise is invaluable. When you start thinking of GOTG as a stand-in at Disney for the F4 and The Silver Surfer, and the beneficiary of the histories of Captain Marvel, Adam Warlock & The Infinity Watch, and Quasar, you begin to see how important this property is to the MCU.

For all the fans chattering about how much they want a Marvel Knights subset of films, cosmic Marvel is an equally as important, equally deep (and, in my opinion, infinitely more entertaining) corner of the Marvel Universe.

An Ant-Man franchise would literally serve only as a vehicle to introduce the character for Avengers, and would be fueled by D-list Avenger villains, and borrowed Iron Man/ Captain America villains that will otherwise never make it to the big screen.

To consider the properties interchangeable in phase III is a great disservice to Guardians and an extreme over-exaggeration of Ant-Man's worth.


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Old 11-12-2012, 10:41 AM   #257
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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No. The Guardians of the Galaxy comic (and the rest of those cosmic events) is the best thing to come out of Marvel in the past 5 years. Thanos is what's getting them through the proverbial door but the Guardians are ultimately much more than that.

A big space epic that they can also tie into their 1.5B monster hit. Win-win.
I know nothing about GOTG, but all I keep hearing is that Thanos will be involved, but nothing such as the Guardians being involved in Avengers 2, so it sounds like, to me, that it's a film just to keep Thanos relevant until Avengers 2.

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Old 11-12-2012, 10:42 AM   #258
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Personally i would love to see a Shaun of the Dead style movie but instead with Zombies..how about Superheroes
Did you say this because Edgar Wright, the director of Shaun of the Dead, is directing Ant-Man? Lol.

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Old 11-12-2012, 11:08 AM   #259
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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I know nothing about GOTG, but all I keep hearing is that Thanos will be involved, but nothing such as the Guardians being involved in Avengers 2, so it sounds like, to me, that it's a film just to keep Thanos relevant until Avengers 2.
Well, that doesn't make your opinion incredibly well informed does it?

People are going to focus primarily on a connection with the sequel to the third highest grossing film of all time. But like the Avengers solo films, there is still worth to the property beyond just pimping the next Avengers team-up.

You don't get the ball rolling on a franchise and then stop.


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Old 11-12-2012, 11:42 AM   #260
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Well, that doesn't make your opinion incredibly well informed does it?
'Have it your way'.

So you have to be informed of every product to even insist on what way you'd have Phase 3 if you could create it?

Makes sense

Quote:
People are going to focus primarily on a connection with the sequel to the third highest grossing film of all time. But like the Avengers solo films, there is still worth to the property beyond just pimping the next Avengers team-up.

You don't get the ball rolling on a franchise and then stop.


That film says hi.

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Old 11-12-2012, 11:43 AM   #261
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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I know nothing about GOTG, but all I keep hearing is that Thanos will be involved, but nothing such as the Guardians being involved in Avengers 2, so it sounds like, to me, that it's a film just to keep Thanos relevant until Avengers 2.
I think you may have misunderstood my original point, the one that you bolded.

You can make Iron Man, Thor and Cap movies that lead into Avengers movies because there are multiple Iron Man, Thor and Cap stories that are worth telling. Stories that can and should work as big standalone movies that also feed into the larger narrative.

That's not really the case with Ant-Man. You aren't saying they should make an Ant-Man sequel because of an Ant-Man story or idea that you love. You're saying they should make an Ant-Man sequel solely to set up a robot who will become evil in a future film.

I can think of, minimum, 5 cosmic stories that would make great Guardians of the Galaxy movies, just off the top of my head. There's material there that's worth mining, not just as set-up for the future but as big, grand space epics for the present. The movies need to function as both; they need to feed into the bigger picture without being meritless on their own.

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Old 11-12-2012, 11:44 AM   #262
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Did you say this because Edgar Wright, the director of Shaun of the Dead, is directing Ant-Man? Lol.

Yes and No..I predict the Ant-man Movie is going to be serious..but i want to see a Shaun of the Dead style Superhero Movie for Ant-Man

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Old 11-12-2012, 11:46 AM   #263
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That film says hi.
There are a lot of reasons they didn't continue but #1 was that it just didn't click with audiences.

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Old 11-12-2012, 11:48 AM   #264
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There are a lot of reasons they didn't continue but #1 was that it just didn't click with audiences.
Sadly i have never watched The Incredible Hulk..

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Old 11-12-2012, 03:47 PM   #265
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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'Have it your way'.

So you have to be informed of every product to even insist on what way you'd have Phase 3 if you could create it?

Makes sense
I think you arguing against future Guardians of the Galaxy movies happening, and arguing that the property exists only to introduce Thanos is different than stating what you want to see in Phase III.


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That film says hi.
"That" film cost $150 M to make and $50-75 M to market, and made $262 M worldwide. Since the studio only gets 50 cents on the dollar of each ticket sale, that film left was left MILLIONS of dollars in the red. Though merchandising and DVD sales probably helped Hulk break even, the fact that it failed to do so in the theaters is why we aren't going to see Hulk 2 for a long time.

If Guardians fails, we won't see Guardians 2, if Guardians is a hit, we'll see another. Same with anything really.

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Old 11-12-2012, 04:14 PM   #266
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Personally i would love to see a Quicksilver Movie..with Vision,Scarlet Witch and Captain Amercia as supporting characters..i think it could work right if it had a good director and good script..also Surtur and The Enchantress need to be the villains

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Old 11-12-2012, 04:37 PM   #267
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I think you arguing against future Guardians of the Galaxy movies happening, and arguing that the property exists only to introduce Thanos is different than stating what you want to see in Phase III.
Although I'm not. I'm arguing that I would prefer a sequel to Ant-Man much more than a sequel to Guardians of the Galaxy. I do believe a GOTG film is just to boast the character of Thanos and it may just be because I know nothing of the GOTG, but for Phase 3, I would prefer to have Ant-Man 2.

Quote:
"That" film cost $150 M to make and $50-75 M to market, and made $262 M worldwide. Since the studio only gets 50 cents on the dollar of each ticket sale, that film left was left MILLIONS of dollars in the red. Though merchandising and DVD sales probably helped Hulk break even, the fact that it failed to do so in the theaters is why we aren't going to see Hulk 2 for a long time.

If Guardians fails, we won't see Guardians 2, if Guardians is a hit, we'll see another. Same with anything really.
Then knowing how the general audience is...I bet we won't even be seeing a Guardians 2 or Ant-Man 2 any time soon.

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Old 11-12-2012, 04:50 PM   #268
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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There are a lot of reasons they didn't continue but #1 was that it just didn't click with audiences.
Incredible Hulk was a good film but Ang Lee's Hulk had people skeptical. And to make matters worse Ed Norton's little hissy fit during post production really turned people away. Keep in mind that Marvel had a lot ridding on this and Ironman being that they had to take out a loan with their very own Marvel characters as collateral. So obviously they weren't going to put their faith in Norton again. (And who could blame them?) So why not start fresh with a new actor playing Banner in the Avengers film?

That said a Hulk sequel isn't out of the question.

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Old 11-12-2012, 05:01 PM   #269
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Although I'm not. I'm arguing that I would prefer a sequel to Ant-Man much more than a sequel to Guardians of the Galaxy. I do believe a GOTG film is just to boast the character of Thanos and it may just be because I know nothing of the GOTG, but for Phase 3, I would prefer to have Ant-Man 2.



Then knowing how the general audience is...I bet we won't even be seeing a Guardians 2 or Ant-Man 2 any time soon.
I actually have more faith in GotG than Antman. Depending on how they spin it. This franchise could be greater than just a Thanos tie in.

Plus if anything Antman is more of a Avengers tie in than GotG is. Not trying to pit them against each other since I'll definitely be seeing both in theaters.
But does Antman even have a legitimate rogue gallery?

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Old 11-13-2012, 08:47 AM   #270
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I actually have more faith in GotG than Antman. Depending on how they spin it. This franchise could be greater than just a Thanos tie in.

Plus if anything Antman is more of a Avengers tie in than GotG is. Not trying to pit them against each other since I'll definitely be seeing both in theaters.
But does Antman even have a legitimate rogue gallery?
Ant-Man was only a solo hero for a few years. His biggest rogues were oft-time Masters of Evil member Whirlwind, and long deceased characters Egghead and the Porcupine.


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Old 11-15-2012, 10:28 AM   #271
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I hope they introduce Pym in the Avengers 2 or earlier. Ant man's Pym should deal with How Hank met Janet through her Father. Her Father being killed them using the tech to bring to justice the Killer. I would really want Scott Lang in the sequel and Pym either being Giant Man/Goliath or Yellow Jacket By the end of Phase III or beginning of IV. I'm sure Feige and Wright will make it work so I'm

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Old 11-17-2012, 06:35 AM   #272
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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Although I'm not. I'm arguing that I would prefer a sequel to Ant-Man much more than a sequel to Guardians of the Galaxy. I do believe a GOTG film is just to boast the character of Thanos and it may just be because I know nothing of the GOTG, but for Phase 3, I would prefer to have Ant-Man 2.



Then knowing how the general audience is...I bet we won't even be seeing a Guardians 2 or Ant-Man 2 any time soon.
Apparently, you not only know nothing about Guardians of the Galaxy, but about the Marvel universe period, or else you'd understand the importance of "going cosmic" and how it opens up infinite possibilities.

Quite frankly, I'm not nearly the Ultron fan that most people on here are, and would be pissed if they ditched a Guardians sequel just to give us an Ant-Man sequel building up to a character I've never found compelling.


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Old 11-22-2012, 07:16 AM   #273
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

So, in other news:

Ant-Man is officially a Phase 2 movie.
*Not* a Phase 3 movie, as most of us assumed.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/11/20...e-one-box-set/

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While EW doesn’t have a lot of specifics on exactly what made the cut, Marvel Studios Phase Two films include Iron Man 3, Thor: The Dark World, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Avengers 2.
This news is already several days old, and yet almost *no one* has commented on it yet, anywhere on the boards. Which I find fascinating, because that has MAJOR implications on a lot of peoples' theory that Marvel is working on a trilogy format, with the Avengers being the culmination of each phase (as evidenced, certainly, in the way Phase I played out). But with Ant-Man being the last of the Phase 2 movies instead of Avengers 2, it's time to reassess that strategy, don't you think....?

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Old 11-22-2012, 08:15 AM   #274
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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So, in other news:

Ant-Man is officially a Phase 2 movie.
*Not* a Phase 3 movie, as most of us assumed.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/11/20...e-one-box-set/



This news is already several days old, and yet almost *no one* has commented on it yet, anywhere on the boards. Which I find fascinating, because that has MAJOR implications on a lot of peoples' theory that Marvel is working on a trilogy format, with the Avengers being the culmination of each phase (as evidenced, certainly, in the way Phase I played out). But with Ant-Man being the last of the Phase 2 movies instead of Avengers 2, it's time to reassess that strategy, don't you think....?
I always assumed that Phase II is longer than some on those boards expect and wrote so in this thread many times and by the way, nowhere does it say that Ant-Man is the last movie of Phase I. Just the last one which is in some kind of production, yet. Phase II might be even longer.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:08 PM   #275
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

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I always assumed that Phase II is longer than some on those boards expect and wrote so in this thread many times and by the way, nowhere does it say that Ant-Man is the last movie of Phase I. Just the last one which is in some kind of production, yet. Phase II might be even longer.
I think you meant to say "last movie of Phase II," but yeah, I agree that there's no indication that even Ant-Man, the Phase II movie with the farthest release date, will even close out the phase.

I *do,* however, believe it *will* be the last in Phase II, simply because it was the last to be announced, and I don't think Marvel is ready to announce Phase III movies yet. And if that's the case, I think the most logical thing we can conclude about this is that "Phases" are nothing more than the movies on Marvel's current production slate. Trying to tie "phases" into any type of overarching storyline -- or assuming any relation between all of the films in a given phase, period -- is leaping to conclusions that are wholly unwarranted.

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