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Old 11-22-2012, 09:04 AM   #451
Ezio Auditore
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

Thanls everybody !!

By the way, does anyone know if Patrick Doyle is returning to score? I REALLY REALLY liked the first film's score.

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Old 11-22-2012, 09:08 AM   #452
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Pretty sure that the helicopter footage (and some other footage shot elsewhere in London) were meant to be flying shots, and there was at least one report that the shots were supposed to show Mjolnir flying headlong through the streets of London. Which means that Thor somehow got *really* separated from the hammer at some point.

The reason I say this is because I was wondering about that most recent set shot at the university, that showed Malekith cornering Jane and Selvig; then Thor steps in and manhandles him and shoves him back. Question: can anyone see Mjolnir on Thor's belt in those scenes....? Because I can't understand why he wouldn't have just laid the hammer down on the Dark Elf king instead of resorting to rasslin'....?
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Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
I cant really tell but I would say he may be being smart here and pushing him away so they can fight without endangering Jane and Erik so much.

and Welcome Ezio!
I agree with Elizah. Also, Thor's costume in the MCU doesn't have a belt. (Seems kind of silly, because it means he always has to set it down and then call for it. But maybe it looked silly on a belt.)

Now, it could be that Thor set Mjolnir down in the yard behind where they are at in that shot, and we can't see it because it is screened by the roof.

Another idea about pushing Malekith: do his spells have a range limit? So maybe Thor pushes him away so Malekith isn't close enough to cast spells on Jane & Co.

Welcome, Ezio! Glad you joined us!

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Old 11-22-2012, 09:09 AM   #453
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Thanls everybody !!

By the way, does anyone know if Patrick Doyle is returning to score? I REALLY REALLY liked the first film's score.
I have the impression that he is.

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Old 11-22-2012, 09:27 AM   #454
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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heh it looks like an old Camera
Or some kind of "futuristic" camera where its strange design follows its strange function A device that allows one to see certain potentialities, or allows one to view the future. One possible picture of the future at the point it's viewed... She knows when Frigga will die and how, unless that's changed. This upsets Thor, he thinks it's purely Hela/Malekith's doing. With this device, AIM/Hydra/Zemo had hoped to finally rule the world by seeing the results of events before they unfold. Even attempting to peer into other dimensions (can't travel unless they have the cube or scepter, a splinter of its power..). Jane steals the design from AIM and improves on it after the end of Iron Man 3 (she was kidnapped by AIM to aid in it's construction but Hela possesses her and she breaks free). The technology would fall into Shield's hands completely by the end of CA 2. Mandarin's rings would be a form of ancient technology that AIM can't fully unlock, because they can't look into the pas. They don't completely know/believe that Atlantis still exists yet, or that Shield knows about it. Iron Man 3 could do a little more in the way of dropping more Atlantis clues, like the spot on the map in IM2 and the Oracle easter-egg.

What someone said about a connection to einstein-rosenbridges + the device allowing Jane prior knowledge about the attack, may be right on the money. Einstein actually believed that time-travel was possible according to some of his theories about time and space; where time is viewed/calculated as mainly an illusion. Ideas about what was dubbed the space-time continuum. Einstein even believed that time-travel to the past would eventually be made possible--but only through very particular wormholes. Ones that we'd be able to generate when we actually could generate enough energy to keep a theoretical wormhole open and stable. He believed that by that time we'd understand enough about the nature of time, space, and the universe to build off his theories about time-travel.
Advanced Idea Mechanics (AIM) took great interest in these theories after Einstein and Erskine helped the allies win WW2. AIM and Mandarin would have a deep interest in other cultures/time periods... Particularly those of past rulers, kings, dictators and Emperors. Hawkings even adjusts and builds from Einstein's theories with his view of how time-traveling to the past could be made possible. The common link is the theoretical generation of a wormhole intended to travel one through time that returns them to the same space in the universe. What Einstein believed you could access with wormholes was a layer of reality so incredibly miniscule that space and time are unable to be separated. Instead, when you get down to that astronomically low sub atomic level you reach a layer where everything exists withing what has been theoretically dubbed space-time... Leading to ideas about the space-time continuum. If Einstein could have a look at all the things he was slightly wrong about regarding the quantum world, then he may have been able to unlock time travel for us. I believe that with the right funding people like Hawkings are closer to cracking time-travel than most realize, at least from a theoretical physics angle. Especially if there is an interplay between light and gravity that we're just beginning to understand. I would insert Hank and Janet as scientists working for AIM/Shield previously on subatomic particles before they discover that looking into space-time through subatomic particles can lead to other effects on the body.

One of the armies in Thor 2 being from other times may be right on the money as well... Furthermore, Selvig may continue to experience things-- to be shown things by the cube. Because of his particular exposure to the cube + his understanding of the universe beyond wormholes. An understanding that goes beyond Foster's. Selvig sees many things fast approaching and knows some of what needs to be done... but keeps getting stuck in the visions of Surtur and Ragnarok. The being that's possessing Jane might have skipped over to Darcy in the university by the time we see her meet up with Thor.
Other things Jane could know about are: Thanos, Masters of evil forming, Ultron, AIM/Hydra etc. And just how much destruction Malekith/Surtur/Kurse intend to cause with Hela overseeing it all. Aim hasn't successfully created time travel but they have a device which allows them to view the future... Jane Foster, Pym, and Selvig would repurpose this by combining it with wormhole generating technology in one of the future movies.

In the synopsis it says Thor's journey is one that leads him to reunite with Jane.
So she's there for a purpose that's tied in to the threats Thor, Asgard, and the universe are facing. Thor doesn't just decide to go visit her amidst all the chaos; and I'm doubting that Malekith or anyone goes after her, Selvig and Darcy directly. They get drawn into it... Thor meets her along the way and probably takes her/Selvig/Darcy along because they have information pertaining to one of the threats.


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Old 11-22-2012, 09:45 AM   #455
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Or some kind of "futuristic" camera The design of which she steals from AIM and improves on after the end of Iron Man 3.

What someone said about a possible connection to einstein-rosenbridge technology, and the device allowing Jane prior knowledge about the attack may be right on the money. Einstein believed time-travel was possible according to some of his theories about time and space, with time being mainly an illusion. Einstein even believed that time-travel to the past would eventually be made possible--through wormholes that we'd be able to generate when we actually could generate enough energy to keep a theoretical wormhole open and stable. He believed that by that time we'd understand enough about the nature of time, space, and the universe to build off his theories about time-travel. AIM took great interest in these theories after Einsteins other ideas won the allies the war... Some of the theories Hawkings adjusts and builds from with his view of the only way that time-traveling into the past could be made possible. The common link is the theoretical generation of a wormhole intended to travel one through time, yet returns them to the same space in the universe.

One of the armies in Thor 2 being from other times may be right on the money as well... Furthermore, Selvig may continue to experience things-- to be shown things by the cube. Because of his particular exposure to the cube + his understanding of the universe beyond wormholes. An understanding that goes beyond Foster's. Selvig sees many things fast approaching and knows some of what needs to be done... but keeps getting stuck in the visions of Surtur and Ragnarok. The being that's possessing Jane might have skipped over to Darcy in the university by the time we see her meet up with Thor.
Other things Jane could know about are: Thanos, Masters of evil forming, Ultron, AIM/Hydra etc. And just how much destruction Malekith/Surtur/Kurse intend to cause with Hela overseeing it all. Aim hasn't successfully created time travel but they have a device which allows them to view the future... Jane Foster, Pym, and Selvig would repurpose this by combining it with wormhole generating technology in one of the future movies.

In the synopsis it says Thor's journey is one that leads him to reunite with Jane.
So she's there for a purpose that's tied in to the threats Thor, Asgard, and the universe are facing. Thor doesn't just decide to go visit her amidst all the chaos; and I'm doubting that Malekith or anyone goes after her, Selvig and Darcy directly. They get drawn into it... Thor meets her along the way and probably takes her/Selvig/Darcy along because they have information pertaining to one of the threats.
Wow, I love all these ideas! SO many interesting ways we can go with our plot outlines. Thanks for sharing them! I especially like how the scientific work is tied up in the greater arcplot of all the movies.

The writers will have to be careful, though, if they are using these ideas. Time travel can make things very confusing, what with potentially changing the future from which you came. Also, the power you are describing is potentially significant, possibly forming a constraint on the writers. So they probably will not want to put too much power in the scientists' hands.

I suspect the portable device Jane is carrying is somewhat limited in what it can do, because it has to use a battery. But maybe they have more equipment in their basement lab there on campus.

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Old 11-22-2012, 09:46 AM   #456
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Welcome Ezio.

And I can't believe that username wasn't taken :P
Lol. I think people avoid choosing names like that, thinking they will be taken already

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Old 11-22-2012, 10:24 AM   #457
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Originally Posted by LokiDionysos View Post
Or some kind of "futuristic" camera where its strange design follows its strange function A device that allows one to see certain potentialities, or allows one to view one possible picture of the future at the point it's viewed... She knows when Frigga will die and how, unless that's changed. This upsets Thor, he thinks it's purely Hela/Malekith's doing. With this device AIM/Hydra/Zemo had hoped to finally rule the world by seeing the results of events before they unfold. The design of which she steals from AIM and improves on after the end of Iron Man 3. The technology would fall into Shield's hands completely by the end of CA 2. Mandarin's rings would be a form of ancient technology that AIM can't fully unlock because they can't look into the past, and don't completely believe that Atlantis still exists yet, or that Shield knows about it. Iron Man 3 could do a little more in the way of dropping more Atlantis clues like the spot on the map in IM2 and the Oracle easter egg.

What someone said about a connection to einstein-rosenbridges + the device allowing Jane prior knowledge about the attack, may be right on the money. Einstein believed that time-travel was possible according to some of his theories about time and space; where time is viewed/calculated as mainly an illusion. Einstein even believed that time-travel to the past would eventually be made possible--but only through very particular wormholes. Ones that we'd be able to generate when we actually could generate enough energy to keep a theoretical wormhole open and stable. He believed that by that time we'd understand enough about the nature of time, space, and the universe to build off his theories about time-travel.
Advanced Idea Mechanics (AIM) took great interest in these theories after Einstein and Erskine helped the allies win WW2. AIM and Mandarin would have a deep interest in other cultures/time periods... Particularly those of past rulers, kings, dictators and Emperors. Hawkings even adjusts and builds from Einstein's theories with his view of how time-traveling to the past could be made possible. The common link is the theoretical generation of a wormhole intended to travel one through time, but returns them to the same space in the universe. What Einstein believed you could access with wormholes was a layer of reality so incredibly miniscule that space and time are unable to be separated. Instead, when you get down to that astronomically low sub atomic level you reach a layer where everything exists withing what has been theoretically dubbed space-time... Leading to ideas about the space-time continuum. If Einstein could have a look at all the things he was slightly wrong about regarding the quantum world, then he may have been able to unlock time travel for us. I believe that with the right funding people like Hawkings are closer to cracking time-travel than most realize, at least from a theoretical physics angle. Especially if there is an interplay between light and gravity that we're just beginning to understand. I would insert Hank and Janet as scientists working for AIM/Shield previously on subatomic particles before they discover that looking into space-time through subatomic particles can lead to other effects on the body.

One of the armies in Thor 2 being from other times may be right on the money as well... Furthermore, Selvig may continue to experience things-- to be shown things by the cube. Because of his particular exposure to the cube + his understanding of the universe beyond wormholes. An understanding that goes beyond Foster's. Selvig sees many things fast approaching and knows some of what needs to be done... but keeps getting stuck in the visions of Surtur and Ragnarok. The being that's possessing Jane might have skipped over to Darcy in the university by the time we see her meet up with Thor.
Other things Jane could know about are: Thanos, Masters of evil forming, Ultron, AIM/Hydra etc. And just how much destruction Malekith/Surtur/Kurse intend to cause with Hela overseeing it all. Aim hasn't successfully created time travel but they have a device which allows them to view the future... Jane Foster, Pym, and Selvig would repurpose this by combining it with wormhole generating technology in one of the future movies.

In the synopsis it says Thor's journey is one that leads him to reunite with Jane.
So she's there for a purpose that's tied in to the threats Thor, Asgard, and the universe are facing. Thor doesn't just decide to go visit her amidst all the chaos; and I'm doubting that Malekith or anyone goes after her, Selvig and Darcy directly. They get drawn into it... Thor meets her along the way and probably takes her/Selvig/Darcy along because they have information pertaining to one of the threats.
I like it. The only thing I don't is that Surtur will most likely be overseeing it all

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Old 11-22-2012, 10:34 AM   #458
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Double post. Sorry, working on it as I go. Some of these ideas I've had for a while. I really think there's gonna be some time-travel but not a lot. And that "the other" is none other than another twisted and mutated version of Kang. A version that's been all around the timeline, this version of him and High Evolutionary have already met and are in an alliance with Thanos. A version that will make more sense once we see the other versions of Kang alongside a fully powered Ultron in Avengers 3. In the movies I think the 31st century becomes the age of Ultron... Not Kang or the future Guardians, or even Thanos... The kicker would be that most of the other Kangs oppose Thanos for his eventual rule over the timeline as an inevitability after he gets the gauntlet. Ultron was a part of Kang's plan to manipulate time and many beings against Thanos... and himself. Which means the Other and Thanos have time travel too. They too are waiting for the perfect times to strike.

So on top of this Magus has his origin slightly altered in GoTG. He's still created to oppose Thanos. Not altered a lot. Magus would still be an alternate version of Warlock born out of a time paradox. Only here, Magus is intimately tied to Thanos/Kang and Kang's other versions that he creates by accident. Because Kang's form of time-travel is not an exact science, and this would come to define his character(s), differentiating this series's use of time travel from other movies (especially ones like X-Men:doFP where altering the present is the goal to prevent something in the future). Here, the creation of alternate realities/dimensions is explored through alternate versions of Kang and other characters that pop into this timeline at certain key points in time. And they wouldn't shy away from the fact that the marvel universe is a multi-verse; instead showing that this is the way things are all connected in this marvel-verse/time-line (the film verse/on-screen timeline that Pym would be working to maintain once he "pops" in to stop Kang/Ultron). Forces more powerful than the characters could help make it so that Ant Man is in Avengers 2, even though we won't have seen his movie yet. If Lang and Pym are both in the Ant Man script, and it occurs in the 80's and the present; then maybe we were misinterpreting things & there really is a way to see Pym and Lang fighting side by side. Only for a short amount of time before Lang dies and Pym reverts to the name Ant Man. There could even be a reason why Janet is alone right now working for AIM, disguised as someone else, taking on an alternate identity of her own in the Iron Man 3 movie. I think the person in question is Janet/Wasp, but it's not revealed until post-credits where we learn that somehow, somewhere, some time; she already got her powers.

Pym, Jane, and Selvig would be "correcting"/maintaining the timeline in their movies/characters. Kang wouldn't be launching a direct invasion from the future. Kang already traveled to the past, has seen many timelines/possibilities. Interacting with Ant Man/the Ultron prototype & messing with the timeline in general is advancing things towards Ragnarok and the Infinity Gauntlet.. Creating the need for such devices to exist, and for Ant Man, Pym, and Janet to focus on parallel realities/other "dimensions" of their characters..

I think Surtur will be a major player in this movie, working with Hela/Malekith, but they'll keep Surtur and most of Hela for Thor 3. Enchantress would show up as a mysterious foe from Thor's past in Avengers 2, who the audience doesn't know the capabilities of because of the sudden appearance via time travel. We'd know all the other villains beforehand except Ultron. Mandarin would return with Sterns and Red Skull. This sets us up for not knowing her powers/when she's using them on the other masters of evil. Red Skull returns from Cap's past, Leader comes from Hulk's past and future, and so forth. Enchantress tells each of the masters that they should be leading, and that they alone should rule afterwards... Knowing that Red skull, mandarin, leader, and high evolutionary/Loki all have this desire to rule makes Mandarin realize he's losing control of his empire, and helps her manipulate the other masters. This gets to Sterns (he's been taken from a future where he leads Madarin's crumbling empire temporarily when the masters were assembled), and Enchantress is able to persuade people much more powerfully than Loki. So she keeps Thor busy during much of the masters' story, but she has her own goals in mind too. It's all for naught though, because Thanos realizes why one of the Kang doubles has assembled the masters of evil from all across time and space.

i think Surtur's a big enough threat for most of Thor 3.
Similar thing with Thanos-- I think he'll definitely be involved with GoTG and Avengers 2. But Thanos is almost too big to not save for the end. I see him on one side of the manipulations in Avengers 2. A little more directly involved than he was last time, but not taking on the whole team yet. I think Avengers 2 is Masters of evil with a little Thanos + an Ultron set up where Ultron travels to the 31st century with Kang... While Avengers 3 is Kang and Ultron, with a returning Thanos taking on ALL the remaining characters for the second half of the movie.

If time travel is coming into it with this movie, and only certain characters leap between times, then certain things can happen a little easier down the road. The device keeps us in the present and in the know about how the future is shaping, however, without Hela's power the Vision isn't as clear. Pym could exist side by side with Lang... travels from the 80's to the present. And like some of the casting calls could indicate: someone could be sending soldiers from all across time and space to Asgard in this film, on top of the other armies we see. We might not be seeing Thanos directly in this movie, but instead the beginnings of a buildup to what the Other actually is. And what his other versions that may have been spotted in the Bourne woods shoot are up to. This would make the stuff about Surtur being around since before the dawn of time more important.

And I don't think we'll see Beyonder in this movie, but I love what someone recently proposed about it maybe being the cube that transforms Algrim.


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Old 11-22-2012, 11:08 AM   #459
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Lol. I think people avoid choosing names like that, thinking they will be taken already

That was exactly my thought. In fact, at first my idea was to put " Nico Auditore" because i took for granted that "Ezio" was gonna be taken. And subconsciously y typed "ezio auditore" and it turned out to be allowed hehe.



I know i'm late to this but Damn! Thor's new costume looks fabulous. And you can see just by pictures that Chris has growwn into it and there"s a more mature character.


I would like Surtur's role to be like Thanos in Avengers or like Moriarty in the first Sherlock Movie


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Old 11-22-2012, 12:17 PM   #460
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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hello everyone!

i've decided to join the hype after being a mere visitor.

the reason my first post is here is because thor is my favourite superhero( alongside batman) so i figured "what the hell, i should debut on the thor forum". so here i am
Welcome Ezio Auditore, and I like your choice of usernames. Assassins Creed rules.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:32 PM   #461
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Originally Posted by LokiDionysos View Post
Or some kind of "futuristic" camera where its strange design follows its strange function A device that allows one to see certain potentialities, or allows one to view the future. One possible picture of the future at the point it's viewed... She knows when Frigga will die and how, unless that's changed. This upsets Thor, he thinks it's purely Hela/Malekith's doing. With this device, AIM/Hydra/Zemo had hoped to finally rule the world by seeing the results of events before they unfold. Even attempting to peer into other dimensions (can't travel unless they have the cube or scepter, a splinter of its power..). Jane steals the design from AIM and improves on it after the end of Iron Man 3 (she was kidnapped by AIM to aid in it's construction but Hela possesses her and she breaks free). The technology would fall into Shield's hands completely by the end of CA 2. Mandarin's rings would be a form of ancient technology that AIM can't fully unlock, because they can't look into the pas. They don't completely know/believe that Atlantis still exists yet, or that Shield knows about it. Iron Man 3 could do a little more in the way of dropping more Atlantis clues, like the spot on the map in IM2 and the Oracle easter-egg.

What someone said about a connection to einstein-rosenbridges + the device allowing Jane prior knowledge about the attack, may be right on the money. Einstein actually believed that time-travel was possible according to some of his theories about time and space; where time is viewed/calculated as mainly an illusion. Ideas about what was dubbed the space-time continuum. Einstein even believed that time-travel to the past would eventually be made possible--but only through very particular wormholes. Ones that we'd be able to generate when we actually could generate enough energy to keep a theoretical wormhole open and stable. He believed that by that time we'd understand enough about the nature of time, space, and the universe to build off his theories about time-travel.
Advanced Idea Mechanics (AIM) took great interest in these theories after Einstein and Erskine helped the allies win WW2. AIM and Mandarin would have a deep interest in other cultures/time periods... Particularly those of past rulers, kings, dictators and Emperors. Hawkings even adjusts and builds from Einstein's theories with his view of how time-traveling to the past could be made possible. The common link is the theoretical generation of a wormhole intended to travel one through time that returns them to the same space in the universe. What Einstein believed you could access with wormholes was a layer of reality so incredibly miniscule that space and time are unable to be separated. Instead, when you get down to that astronomically low sub atomic level you reach a layer where everything exists withing what has been theoretically dubbed space-time... Leading to ideas about the space-time continuum. If Einstein could have a look at all the things he was slightly wrong about regarding the quantum world, then he may have been able to unlock time travel for us. I believe that with the right funding people like Hawkings are closer to cracking time-travel than most realize, at least from a theoretical physics angle. Especially if there is an interplay between light and gravity that we're just beginning to understand. I would insert Hank and Janet as scientists working for AIM/Shield previously on subatomic particles before they discover that looking into space-time through subatomic particles can lead to other effects on the body.

One of the armies in Thor 2 being from other times may be right on the money as well... Furthermore, Selvig may continue to experience things-- to be shown things by the cube. Because of his particular exposure to the cube + his understanding of the universe beyond wormholes. An understanding that goes beyond Foster's. Selvig sees many things fast approaching and knows some of what needs to be done... but keeps getting stuck in the visions of Surtur and Ragnarok. The being that's possessing Jane might have skipped over to Darcy in the university by the time we see her meet up with Thor.
Other things Jane could know about are: Thanos, Masters of evil forming, Ultron, AIM/Hydra etc. And just how much destruction Malekith/Surtur/Kurse intend to cause with Hela overseeing it all. Aim hasn't successfully created time travel but they have a device which allows them to view the future... Jane Foster, Pym, and Selvig would repurpose this by combining it with wormhole generating technology in one of the future movies.

In the synopsis it says Thor's journey is one that leads him to reunite with Jane.
So she's there for a purpose that's tied in to the threats Thor, Asgard, and the universe are facing. Thor doesn't just decide to go visit her amidst all the chaos; and I'm doubting that Malekith or anyone goes after her, Selvig and Darcy directly. They get drawn into it... Thor meets her along the way and probably takes her/Selvig/Darcy along because they have information pertaining to one of the threats.
Wow! You have some really nice thoughts and ideas coming together here, I have no idea if any of it relates to what we are actually seeing, but I definitely like what I'm hearing.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:34 PM   #462
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Wow, I love all these ideas! SO many interesting ways we can go with our plot outlines. Thanks for sharing them! I especially like how the scientific work is tied up in the greater arcplot of all the movies.

The writers will have to be careful, though, if they are using these ideas. Time travel can make things very confusing, what with potentially changing the future from which you came. Also, the power you are describing is potentially significant, possibly forming a constraint on the writers. So they probably will not want to put too much power in the scientists' hands.

I suspect the portable device Jane is carrying is somewhat limited in what it can do, because it has to use a battery. But maybe they have more equipment in their basement lab there on campus.
I agree that adding time travel could add a confusing element to the movies, but it would be cool if eventually it lead to the use of characters like Kang or Immortus.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:37 PM   #463
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Well anyways, just was reading through a few of the posts this morning, but now I am leaving to go spend time with my family. I hope everyone has a nice Thanksgiving.

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Old 11-22-2012, 01:03 PM   #464
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Well anyways, just was reading through a few of the posts this morning, but now I am leaving to go spend time with my family. I hope everyone has a nice Thanksgiving.

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You too Surfer be safe!

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Old 11-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #465
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

@LokiDionysos: I can tell have more reading to do to be up to speed on everything you're mentioning. So I apologize that all I can write is, "gee, that sounds good." But what you write nevertheless captures my imagination! I am really enjoying it, even though I can't speak very specifically to any of it. Thanks for sharing.

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Old 11-22-2012, 04:55 PM   #466
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

Some random thoughts. I guess this is the best place to record them.

Andrew Lawden had said that some of the gothic-looking buildings in London would serve as buildings in Svartalfheim. I wonder what the look of Alfheim is? Presumably it wouldn't be exactly like in Lord of the Rings, for example. But I have this recollection that (light) elves generally have very organic, Art Nouveau style to them. What do you guys think?

Also, I have been supposing the battle at Bourne Woods was set in Asgard. I have been thinking that because there were little Viking-like embellishments to the pieces on the set. Elizah has been putting forward the idea that the battle would be more specifically in Nornheim. Later she suggested that some of the people in the battle are Vanir, since they look somewhat Viking-ish, but grittier than the Asgardians.

That line of thinking made me wonder if Bourne Woods actually is on Vanaheim. So what do you guys think Vanaheim would look like? Viking-ish, or something else?


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Old 11-22-2012, 06:48 PM   #467
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it

Found an interesting piece on Tumblr via Expederest; who has been following the set in Greenwich for quite some time. He posted the following about some things he learned from the set.

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All the rubble and stuff is from a spaceship that crashes into the grounds. It’ll be added with CGI later on. So will more of the damage caused by the crash. The wing also destroys the pillars on the left, that are covered with blue (which is pretty obvious now…)

Not sure when [the alleged pic of Kurse] was taken but I was there last Wednesday (14th November) and they were filming a scene with Malekith and the elves. I could of got a video of it, but I was in the chapel and wasn’t really sure on the whole camera business at the time.

But I can tell you that it was Malekith leading an army of elves over the rubble, which is where the ship would of crash landed. I think Thor (or maybe Malekith? Didn’t know he was filming until I saw pictures later) was saying something but I couldn’t make anything out.


On Monday, they were filming a scene that was supposed to be set outside Charing Cross underground station. I assumed this meant that Greenwich was just doubling for other areas as normal. However, it’s actually also doubling for itself! From what I remember, there are two worlds occupying the same space, and it has something to do with the Prime Meridian Line (or timeline as the guy insisted on calling it. Significant because I read something about time travel?). You know. The line at which time is measured (known as Greenwich Mean Time). There were trailers in Greenwich Park next to Greenwich Observatory, which has that lovely photo opportunity of standing on both the east and west of the world. So the whole “two worlds blending together” thing could be true. I vaguely remember them saying it has a mystical or magical aspect about it…Anyone know if they filmed at the observatory or not?

At the moment, they’re filming all the stunts, and I’ve read that lasts until Sunday somewhere. But a security guard said that they are still filming up until Wednesday, so what does that mean? Maybe the main actors are coming back to film anything left over? That is speculation by the way. I’m no expert in film production so I don’t know what that means.
http://expederest.tumblr.com/post/36...-i-heard-a-few

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Old 11-22-2012, 07:08 PM   #468
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

^^ So they really *are* lousy pilots! HAHAHA!

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Old 11-22-2012, 07:09 PM   #469
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^^ So they really *are* lousy pilots! HAHAHA!
I was thinking that but thought I'd wait for you to respond first. LOL Another good guess on your part.

Edit: Oh! Just thought of something, what if Thor lands on their spacecraft and wrecks it and that's why they crash?

Another thing, one of the first vids that came from these sets included a line of creatures in long black robes with hoods surrounding Thor and marching towards him in unison with weapons up. They could be dark elves but I'm not sure why they'd have robes with hoods and then not have robes with hoods, you know? Did anyone else see that? I was wondering if that scene was doubling for yet another world and a set of scenes at a different point in the movie.

this is the video I mean...
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


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Old 11-22-2012, 10:09 PM   #470
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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From what I remember, there are two worlds occupying the same space
I can't think of a better way to describe Charing Cross Station.

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Old 11-22-2012, 10:20 PM   #471
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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^^ So they really *are* lousy pilots! HAHAHA!
heh ELVES are great at nature but flying isn't one of them lol

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Old 11-22-2012, 11:51 PM   #472
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Another thing, one of the first vids that came from these sets included a line of creatures in long black robes with hoods surrounding Thor and marching towards him in unison with weapons up. They could be dark elves but I'm not sure why they'd have robes with hoods and then not have robes with hoods, you know? Did anyone else see that?
I believe those are dark elves, because I remember last week i saw a video of hemsworth and eccleston rehearsing, and eccleston was wearing those dark robes and hood.

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Old 11-23-2012, 02:42 AM   #473
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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@LokiDionysos: I can tell have more reading to do to be up to speed on everything you're mentioning. So I apologize that all I can write is, "gee, that sounds good." But what you write nevertheless captures my imagination! I am really enjoying it, even though I can't speak very specifically to any of it. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks American Maid, I've been doing a lot of re-reading myself trying to find ways to combine and represent a lot of the bigger story-lines from things revolving around the Avengers and the characters. Sorry about the length again lol. I think the reason that the marvel cinematic universe has been given the designation 9999999 or something (not sure about the # of nines), will tie into all this stuff about timelines, alternate parts of the multi-verse, Kang(s) and Magus. Similar to Marvel 616 and the Ultimates universes in many ways. Far removed from the other verses/marvel timelines because things happen differently. Concepts/ideas are slightly altered/combined, Kang/Thanos are the cause of the problems of a couple of the neighboring universes. Things are even more connected to one another, things are merging c.o. Malekith, and Kang's influence over the past, like the "pharaohs of old", bringing everything about similarly. Faster and merged. Like an inevitability that Kang is frustrated he can't avoid but intends to manipulate. Things like Ultron and Ant Man happen out of order and have been incorporated as such. Shield made a lot of mistakes, only "some of them were recent". I believe Ultron was already created at some point in the 80's... In short (or not so short), I think they have a chance on-screen to explore the multi-verse and provide a reason for why some major Avengers/Marvel events are occurring at a quick pace. As well as opening up more explanations for where alternate dimensions actually exist... In the subatomic realms as well as the astronomical and physical realms.

The subatomic is where Hela/magical powers would reside if there's no magic in the MCU. Only science we don't fully understand yet. Malekith isn't necessarily using magic, but he is a sorcerer of reality. Subatomic particles are able to time travel in some small way, and the real-world discovery of the "God particle" opens up a whole lot of things that previously seemed like sci-fi magic. The quantum world & the cosmos are pretty much the only things science has left to explore, short of creating something entirely new. Mandarin's rings aren't powered by magic, I feel they're an ancient form of advanced science that he and AIM don't understand at this point in time The rings are the source of his power, but the power comes from the past/a non-alien culture that were at war with the Lemurians. Lemurians are sometimes described as flying lizards in real-world myths, they're shape-shifters in some stories. Mandarin has an obsession with flying lizards, ancient myths, and working with/studying multiple cultures and groups/times. He studies past rulers' cultures because he has a connection to them, and will have some slight connection to Immortus the conqueror. Stark Industries and AIM are both interested in downsizing and making things smaller/more accessible. Mandarin learns his lessons from the past but most characters can't view the past. Vision can because of the way he's created... Mandarin AIMS to be an Oracle and teach lessons about the past and future. He knows that "he who controls the past, controls the future" and if he doesn't learn the lessons of past Emperors and myths, then his hidden empire is doomed to repeat them. However, the Mandarin doesn't anticipate Iron Man stopping his Empire before it resurrects the Hydra. He also didn't anticipate the ensuing fight for control among the villains that gives the heroes a further advantage, or that a future Emperor and a mad Titan would come stomping through his plans for an Empire..

Like AIM, he can't see the past directly. He believes Captain America isn't a hero. A myth that is really just advanced science... It infuriates him that Cap returned, he takes it out on a different target first. One who's been a pest to his network for a while and is now affiliated with Shield and Cap. He's infuriated that Shield would cover up Atlantis (on the map in IM2)... Thinks Cap was a lab experiment and not a true hero like Iron Man did, only a myth. Like Atlantis in some ways. Athough Mandarin believes there are some truths to myths, like past leaders and Red Skull did. He believes Captain America was simply a creation of Shield. Not a real hero-because of the way he views Shield and addresses them with his lesson. Mandarin has his own ancient teachings about Atlantis and Lemuria that even the power hungry RedSkull/Zemo/AIM/Hydra don't believe. Mandi doesn't see that Cap volunteered to stop men like him--power hungry conquerors of mankind... Masters of Evil. Luckily, and unluckily, Immortus and Ultron arrive from the future to reveal why they've assembled the masters of Evil. However they end up taken for a ride by Enchantress. Immortus will be important in Thor 3 when the cyclical nature of Ragnarok and marvel universes are explored along with the cyclical nature of the subatomic realms and space/astronomical bodies.

Mandarin knows as a former archaeologist that you have to study patterns to figure out the nature of things sometimes. When things are buried or manipulation is afoot and things are trying to be buried, or getting sucked into or affected by some unseen force. Collapsing in on itself and being obliterated/converted into the inner dimensions, because a doorway is also a part of the whole structure of the house and is subtly affected by those who pass through it over time. Doorways and doorway generators can end up appearing to lose their functionality, much to Thanos's dismay and seemingly against his better judgement. Thinking that the tesseract can't be repaired and passing it off to another group. Only to cause chaos and death while getting it repaired for him in the end. Turns out it wasn't against his better judgement. He let AIM/Sterns have the depleted/broken cube after losing it in Avengers 2 to the Masters of Evil. Thanos has knowledge of the future on his side too, knows the means justify the ends, and wants to make certain sacrifices to move things along faster.

The masters would be a dark prince/king (Loki and.or Malekith I suppose), a dictator/Baron (Red Skull and/or Zemo), emperors/pharaohs of a hidden empire of the past, present, and future (Immortus, Mandarin, Immortus). As well as Enchantress seducing with power, and a hyper intelligent future "Leader" of the world who takes advantage of the world's desperate state in the not-too distant future (future Sterns). There would be others serving as muscle, and Enchantress would be there whispering in the master's ears, enslaving mankind... Ultron also wants to enslave mankind. Dash in a little mad Titan and incredibly powerful beings like Warlock and Odin who are all at odds, and Shield has their work cut out for them. They didn't know it but they were already part of a bigger set of universes. Strange and Warlock can fill us in on lots of it because their powers and origins would both be slightly altered accordingly. While groups like Asgardians and Inhumans have genetic, and bio-chemical links to inner and higher dimensions like Valhalla, that provide much of their powers. People think of these types of beings as magicians or gods because they manipulate matter on such a small scale that the physical result seems like magic when it suddenly appears. Malekith and Loki know how to manipulate matter at will. It takes tremendous will-power, other enhancements, or runic items/devices; incantations & certain vibrations or "spells" that alter reality on a small scale beneath the surface. Creating tremendous effects in the physical world. Causing ripples in the physical expression of reality. But sorcerers and "magicians" like them can do this at will. For the most part Thor needs the hammer, although we have evidence that he doesn't always need the hammer. E.g. he seems to have pre-knowledge about the storm in Thor, and can be seen causing lightning without the Hammer in this movie...through some will-power Thor may be able to eventually generate physical wormholes with the Hammer, and later temporal ones. Something no other time-manipulators of the story are seen to truly master. Unfortunately Thor can't stop time from flowing in this movie so he has to make a sacrifice that's against his morals. He can't be in two places at once like Immortus/The Other. Or Loki and Malekith, in some ways, for that matter... He makes numerous sacrifices, knowing in advance that the ends may justify the means for all the worlds, realms, and dimensions involved.

We could see that the closest thing to the Devil and Hell reside in the subatomic dimensions of the MCU. Hel and some parts of the lower realms. Pym/Janet know how to lead Shield to these spaces... Jane and Selvig are a big asset too. Darcy becomes a detriment to all sides. Hela's realm is powered by people's "souls", their expelled life-energy. That tiny bit of mass that is recorded as energy leaving the body when one dies. This leads Magus/Warlock to have a slightly different perspective than Strange about the nature of things.

Iron Man won't be the connection to GoTG imo. It's not so much about time travel, more so about defining this marvel-verse as a very particular timeline/alternate universe. One where Ragnarok is fast approaching and occurring in slightly different ways. One that's still tied in with the broader multi-verse, because most things will still happen like in the comics. However, things can be altered and changed to fit in with the on-screen universe, keeping the audience on their toes about characters like Nebula and Warlock who play parts in the end of the Infinity Gauntlet story. For this reason and some others, I think Magus and Nebula are in GoTG. The universal truth about why they switched her out relatively early in the process could lead one to see that "the Other" is more important to the story in some way, and things have been altered. This leads me to believe the other is another version of Kang. A back-story could be given to Thanos about Saturn's moon Titan, High evolutionary, and Nebula's deeds in the past that put her at odds with most of the galaxy and Gamora. The Inhumans begin to be set up at this point.

Some characters like Strange, Magus, Warlock, Odin, and Hela appear magical, but Iron Man and Pym determine their powers come from inner dimensions and sub-atomic space. Places like hell in myths are very real and powerful, but exist so far beneath the surface of things, that Pym isn't really worried about Surtur spilling over into the upper realms and dimensions. Even Valhalla could be a dimension that encompasses many. Thor on the other hand is worried about Surtur and Hela way down there. They intend to raise hell on the surface, and in the higher and in-between realms. This is why Midgard is so important for Malekith/Surtur to attempt to enslave at the same time. Strange and Magus both have the ability to alter reality by accessing powers from these hard to access, strange, in-between dimensions and subatomic dimensions powered by the space-time continuum... Loki may have had a key to the space side of things... Strange on the other hand can access other dimensions and do amazing thing by the sheer power of his will, based on the ancient teachings he acquired in Tibet about the nature of the universe/multiverse and other, inner dimensions. The subatomic realms operate in cycles and rotations that are similar to the movements of astronomical bodies, but can operate in strange ways that allow particles like Neutrinos to be in two places at once, or do amazing things. Electrons rotating around protons and things instantly changing their charges/altering their physical make-up...

Altering/enhancing Kurse, and giving AntMan the ability to instantly change size and rearrange his structure on sub-atomic levels in relation to gravity. Powers of tens... Altering himself massively in the physical dimensions. His Pym particles can't alter reality entirely, or create lightning/allow him to travel through time. But they're used to affect and rearrange his physical reality/his body size instantaneously. The atomic and radioactive properties of the gamma rays that Banner was bombarded with, banner's own nature, and the effects of his form of the serum vs. Caps and beta rays change him from what he could become: a version of Captain America. Into what he becomes temporarily... A powerful, monstrously enhanced being that becomes so changed and charged by what is going on beneath the surface. Red Skull failed to derive some of the benefits from the inner dimensions and ended up permanently looking like a monster and only somewhat a success. He wanted to be a God... Pym can increase his strength incredible degrees simply by increasing his size. Janet and him have their strengths increased and compressed when they shrink down, and can actually lift 10X more for a thing their size, so it's win-win. The serum may have more to do with High Evolutionary, and Erskine and Einstein had partners in Oxford before they booked it to America. Partners who already made it to space with their help, the help of some former Nazi scientists, and those who end up entangled with the Guardians...

Sorry, but that's why I'm posting so much... I'm attempting to explain how "magic" works in the Thor movies, and how Kurse is transformed if "magic" is simply science we don't understand yet. The serum can also be seen as a form of altering someone's atomic structure to produce a desired, enhancing effect. Hela would exist in a subatomic dimension that has unusual connections to the space-time continuum, this means the powers possessing Jane and being tampered with by the Dark Elves are coming from a place further inside reality than some of the smallest classes beneath particles (there are things even smaller than particles making up the quantum world when we look even deeper!). Again, Pym would be the key to all of this, and that could be why things have to be just right in his movie. The power of an Ant in this story against the multiple boots trying to stomp him out, and stop him from existing... Immortus wanted to turn Ultron into his asset, but working with Ultron is not always a good idea. Certain things are inevitable with Ultron and he will always turn against anyone who claims to be his master. That's why he's not really a master of evil. He alone wants to enslave the universe... he even wants to use some people as pawns against Thanos and initiate the age of Ultron. Ultron's empire.

I really think adding things like the negative zone, and the exploration of subatomic particles relating to time, can help Pym's character lead to a somewhat realistic way of approaching time-travel and other dimensions/magic powers. Things, realms, and beings in the inner/sub-atomic realms influence & alter things on the surface of space, bodies, and in the astronomical/physical worlds. Peered into by secret organizations with unlimited backing. Exploring alternate dimensions, & other dimensions/in-between times, but never directly traveling to other times in the films. Making the negative zone a middle of knowwhere type thing, in between established dimensions and the timelines. Other characters would cross from their own times into other movies. Mandarin believes heroes are only a myth, but also believes in some ancient myths like Atlantis. Pym discovers the negative zone and creates a super-villain prison to hold Leader(Sterns) and one of the Kang doubles. A space so close to the subatomic level of space-time that none of the masters can escape it and it exists as its own in-between dimension.

The "time viewer" allows Jane to know that Malekith is coming to Earth, or that something will be up. Going on at the exact university they're working at with stolen aim property relating to Hela/Surtur/the dawn of time and time in general. This gives Heimdell a little time to warn Thor of the goings on. Thor thinks he has more time to try to beat Malekith and the armies in the realms, preventing Malekith from going to Earth... Before Thor chooses to act to go save Jane in advance, Malekith is suddenly drawn there and Thor suddenly gets drawn there too as he realizes he must go there at this point. Thor learns that he may need to sacrifice some things for the greater good, because there isn't enough time to save everyone and he knows what must be stopped... The death of either Odin or Frigga, which remain two future possibilities they're trying to stop throughout the film. Can they stop both from dying? Or is it destined to be one of them in this movie, at this time? Inevitable like Ragnarok. Cyclical like time, because Kang and the Other (as well as Thanos have watched this play out in the 9999998 universe...). Especially if there are alternate realities/times at play behind the true nature of the Marvel universe. A multiverse. With some characters like Red Skull acting like Neutrinos and jumping between times/films, other characters who are in the same place at the same time, e.g. Warlock/his alternate Magus, and The Other/Immortus. I'm using the name Kang for a specific purpose. Avoiding the fact that I think he will only be referred to as Immortus and "The Other". Maybe more.

The way I see it, is that Feige and co are being really smart about all this and making sure they hit as many key plot points from the comics as possible, altering things to combine ideas and characters sometimes, because they only have so much time and so many movies to try to cover decades of material. They're backed by marvel comics and Disney so they can afford to take risks if they know that at least representing the source material in some way will eventually lead to amazing things. Kang would have a much bigger influence over Earth-999999 & could have a different origin that doesn't really bring up much of the Fantastic Four origin. Speculation: They couldn't get any of the rights to Galactus because Fox has the desire to maybe try that again and don't feel they wish to use Immortus in their reboot series. They don't have Shield to help deal with things or the Kang doubles, they may share Surfer/Kang. Marvel doesn't wannna do a Kang invasion storyline and have it be a repeat of Avengers in some ways; so they choose to highlight other aspects of Kang's character and time-travel. Every time Kang travels into the past an alternate time-line, and alternate version of himself is created because of the nature of the universe if travel to the past is possible. According to Hawkings this would bring in ideas about alternate realities... You wouldn't be traveling to the past in your own timeline, you'd be skipping into an alternate past--or returning to an alternate future. According to the theories it's probably only possible if the idea that we live in a multi-verse is true.
This would bring some real world science into it and make time-travel more theoretically possible, less like true magic when it shows up in the story.
Kang has the same problem that we would while trying to travel into the past. Explaining why this Marvel universe is 999999 or whatever... this version of Kang has been up to this for quite some time. He comes from a few dimensions before and around marvel-999999 in part of the timeline/multi-verse. And Kang/Immortus/the Other are acting like the "pharoahs of old" and try to bury a lot of things like Ant Man by manipulating things. Although his plan with Ultron would fail, but resemble an episode from Earth's mightiest heroes. Wow, wrote way too much again.
Thanks for reading this if you made it


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Old 11-23-2012, 03:36 AM   #474
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

Intresting that the Meridian Line is playing a part in this.

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Old 11-23-2012, 07:06 AM   #475
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

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Intresting that the Meridian Line is playing a part in this.
Yeah, that's the first I've heard of time travel or "two worlds" in this plot. So are they suggesting that Svartalfheim, the "Dark World," is a parallel universe to Earth? Or that Dark Elves are time travelers? Or maybe not just Dark Elves, but *all* the denizens of the Nine Realms?

Not sure I buy that just yet. It's interesting, but it hardly seems to fit what we know of Thor or his movies. This is more the realm of Kang the Conqueror, not Malekith the Accursed.

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