The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by B

The last thing Manchester United need is a 3rd over 35 year old midfielder that can no longer run.

Now you need to get Roy Keane back & complete the set!

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

The sad thing here is that although you have an owner who plays the club as if he's playing a real life game of Football Manager, on the other hand if he were to pull out you wouldn't be in the best position financially would you? Or has that situation changed now?

It's sad as I like Roman because he is a fan. There's no doubt about that.

Unfortunately he just cannot distance himself enough from the team so that the manager can buy & sell as they want, and run the teams the way they want. They are (without notice) subject to whims from on high and failure to achieve Roman's 'Barcelona in Blue' ''dream team, which include playing his personal favourites no matter how awful their form is (he undoubtedly gets too familiar with certain players leading to him losing all objectivity over how bad they are), makes it infuriating for us normal fans who know that dream would be a lot more realistic if he just stayed the hell out of it.

Regarding him pulling out...Thankfully Roman wiped out all previous debts and has bankrolled all the losses since, and after Eufa's fair play ruling the club has been set up properly so they should be able to balance the books when that kicks in (for the time being at any rate). They actually made a profit this year, the first time since Roman bought us, which shows they've either improved their financial handling at the club (or maybe cooked the books for Eufa's benefit...) or that Champions league win was more valuable than we might think. I also know they've made big strides in foreign markets like UTD did years back so I'm sure all that money helps too.

Anyways, if he walked out tomorrow, they will be no worse off as they are currently (on paper at least) in the black. Getting knocked out of the CL early will be costly though so I'd expect that to hamper any spending sprees over the next couple of transfer windows.

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by wobbly

In terms of money to spend on players, Chelsea would be his better bet (at least until next season when that fair play stuff kicks in). In terms of running the club as he wants without fear of any dumb @ss knee jerk sacking at a run of bad games, or for not accommodating Roman's latest over-priced pet (and being allowed to not winning anything in a season, something Roman does not tolerate at all) then Arsenal would be the best bet.

All depends on how Pep views whatever he is offered. Take Romans' money and know he will be a lot wealthier no matter what happens (and would still find another good gig afterwards), or go right into a set-up that will let him do what he wants the way he wants?

Guess we will find out next summer.

Quite true on all counts.

[wobbly]

So the FA have cleared Clattenberk and charged Mickel for misconduct...

They've noted the charge by the club was 'made in good faith' so no need to hammer them for making the allegation as it does look like it was a misunderstanding that blew way out of control when the ref was confronted about it after the game.

The club have asked for Mickel to get a personal hearing to explain the mitigating circumstances, which I would imagine are having thought the ref had called him a monkey he was furious and it's obvious the ref did not do anything to dispel that.

The Refs union are now asking that Chelsea issue an apology and give Clattenberk compensation...

Hmmm...I'd give the apology, but after that tosser totally robbed us in that game (and we have been suffering ever since!!) no way would I willingly give that incompetent clown any money. Talk about rubbing salt into the wound...

[the_ultimate_evil]

sorry wobbly putting aside support for either club, the fa need to hit chelsea and hit them hard. they have basically ruined a man career, everyone will now treat him as guilty no matter what is said to prove his innocence.

this has nothing to do with football, this is branding a man a racist he will get torture on the pitch, from fans and players, he will get abuse from morons off the street let alone what his family will have went through

but before you say but terry was the same. terry was caught on video and admitted to saying what he was accused of an he got off light from both the courts and fa.

this minor misconduct and "made in good faith" approach is to sweep this under the rug because the fa dont want to admit they have messed up in everyone of these cases

[kit1982]

He's a ref I'm pretty sure he got dogs abuse before all this. You can't hammer Chelsea for supporting their player on this matter particularly when the race issue has been such a hot topic. They should apologise no question but thats it, we can all go into conspiracy theories about it being a reaction to the Terry incident, but with no concrete proof you have to take this at face value.

[Harry_Lime02]

One thing's for sure, Clattenberg will never referee a Chelsea game again.

[the_ultimate_evil]

there is a difference from the usual stuff of the refs a wanker or calling him blind, ******* etc. with someone claiming he made a racist remake any call he makes can now be claimed he's only doing that because...

[kit1982]

Maybe it will, maybe it won't, considering the whole thing has been a non event I really think once all the hurrah dies down he'll be fine. I just can't see how you can discipline Chelsea for taking an alleged racial insult against their own player seriously.

[the_ultimate_evil]

neither do i, but i do think they need to do something other than a fine or slap on the wrist.

[kit1982]

But what can you do them for? On the face of it they haven't done anything wrong.

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by kit1982

Maybe it will, maybe it won't, considering the whole thing has been a non event I really think once all the hurrah dies down he'll be fine. I just can't see how you can discipline Chelsea for taking an alleged racial insult against their own player seriously.

He will be fine. Suarez and Terry were found guilty by the FA and their careers are not over. Life goes on.

And thanks for getting it about Chelsea standing up for their player.

They thought they had a legitimate complaint, the referee did nothing to settle the matter early when confronted about it (he only made Mickel angrier) leaving the club with 2 options: 1) do nothing, or 2) Make the charge.

Imagine the stick they'd have got if they did nothing and Mickel then went to the press about it?

[B]

Originally Posted by wobbly

So the FA have cleared Clattenberk and charged Mickel for misconduct...

They've noted the charge by the club was 'made in good faith' so no need to hammer them for making the allegation as it does look like it was a misunderstanding that blew way out of control when the ref was confronted about it after the game.

The club have asked for Mickel to get a personal hearing to explain the mitigating circumstances, which I would imagine are having thought the ref had called him a monkey he was furious and it's obvious the ref did not do anything to dispel that.

The Refs union are now asking that Chelsea issue an apology and give Clattenberk compensation...

Hmmm...I'd give the apology, but after that tosser totally robbed us in that game (and we have been suffering ever since!!) no way would I willingly give that incompetent clown any money. Talk about rubbing salt into the wound...

Chelsea should be forced to apologise fully & give him some form of compensation.

They accused him of being a racist, much like being accused of rape or being a child molester in the public eye, whether you are completely cleared of any wrongdoing or not, those accusations will stick with him & the taunts he'll receive from crowds will be even worse now they actually have something a little personal on him rather than the usual "the referee's a wanker" crap should he go back to refereeing.

I understand the accusation was a misunderstanding that became out of control, however that's exactly why Chelsea should be made to pay him something. So they know the next time if something like this were to happen to get their facts straight before disgracing someone publicly potentially ruining a career.

Whether or not he made the right or wrong decision sending off Torres in a game is completely irrelevant. Falsely accusing someone of something as serious as racism is completely unacceptable, it's as serious & as bad as actually committing a racist act as far as I am concerned. I appreciate it was a misunderstanding & if it was a misunderstanding, Chelsea FC should be man/men enough to come out & publicly apologise to Clattenburg & even if they don't give him something publicly, they should give him some form of compensation for the distress it will undoubtedly have cause him & his family.

[kit1982]

But Chelsea went through all the correct procedures....they did exactly what Kick It Out and the like have been asking for since the Terry case. You can't bash them for taking potentially racist abuse seriously. As Wobbly said could you imagine if Chelsea hadn't backed their man and it had been leaked to the press? Everyone moaning now would be moaning that because it's not one of the big players the club isn't interested.

This whole mess illustrates how the current system for dealing with these things needs addressing because at the moment basically your guilty till proven innocent.

Clattenburg will be fine, look at the support he's getting from fans up and down the country. The only place he'd get a bad reception is Stamford Bridge which was a given anyway what with the United match. People may well ask "has he given it because...." but that can be thrown at any ref.

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by B

I understand the accusation was a misunderstanding that became out of control, however that's exactly why Chelsea should be made to pay him something. So they know the next time if something like this were to happen to get their facts straight before disgracing someone publicly potentially ruining a career.

That's exactly why they shouldn't imo: They gave the ref the opportunity to settle the matter in the dressing room after the game. He didn't.

So the question is why didn't he settle it there and then? What did he say that led to Mickel threatening to break the man's legs? I'm reasonably sure it was not an "oh dear, I never said that and I'm sorry if anyone thought I did".

Having failed to settle it when he could have done, and in fact only made the offended player even angrier, he left the club with no real choice but to make the complaint.

The fact the man was given the chance to settle the matter in the dressing room, and only made matters worse, keeps getting overlooked.

Whether or not he made the right or wrong decision sending off Torres in a game is completely irrelevant.

Agreed, but that and the off-side winner just adds insult to injury from any Chelsea fans perspective. To pay him anything feels like we are paying the guy for having robbed us blind.

Falsely accusing someone of something as serious as racism is completely unacceptable, it's as serious & as bad as actually committing a racist act as far as I am concerned.

Ok, lets' get this straight: As far as Chelsea were concerned they were not falsely accusing him. They genuinely thought he had a case to answer, the ref did not settle it when given the chance, so it's then the FA's job to rule on what Chelsea thought was a legitimate complaint.

Whether proven later to be mistaken or not, if you think a complaint of this kind has merit it has to be reported, then the authorities can find out the truth.

I appreciate it was a misunderstanding & if it was a misunderstanding, Chelsea FC should be man/men enough to come out & publicly apologise to Clattenburg & even if they don't give him something publicly, they should give him some form of compensation for the distress it will undoubtedly have cause him & his family.

I agree they should apologise, and if he has lost money from not refereeing the last few weeks then they can compensate that, but no more than that, as I will not give that clown a pass for making matters worse after the game when there is no good reason why he could not have settled it there and then, and we'd all have been spared this bloody nonsense.

[kit1982]

My biggest concern is that this whole mess will potentially put off players coming forward if they have been subjected to abuse. You look at how drawn out it is, how public and how fans call for blood one way or the other... unless you have 100% iron clad proof, is it really worth it? Not every incident is going to have a youtube slow-mo and nit every offender will be as honest as Suarez was.

[Dr. Evil]

There are two places I think David Beckham would consider: New York and Paris. Then again, Paris Saint Germain was interested in him last year and he chose to stay. But his wife, Victoria Beckham is also a fashion designer and both New York and Paris are a fashion designer's dream. With the New York Red Bulls (who like the American football Jets and Giants play in New Jersey) he could pair with Thierry Henry. The Red Bulls would replace Rafa Marquez with Beckham in a New York Minute if he said he was interested in playing in New York. New York is also the #1 media market in the United States.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Dr. Evil

There are two places I think David Beckham would consider: New York and Paris. Then again, Paris Saint Germain was interested in him last year and he chose to stay. But his wife, Victoria Beckham is also a fashion designer and both New York and Paris are a fashion designer's dream. With the New York Red Bulls (who like the American football Jets and Giants play in New Jersey) he could pair with Thierry Henry. The Red Bulls would replace Rafa Marquez with Beckham in a New York Minute if he said he was interested in playing in New York. New York is also the #1 media market in the United States.

It's already been stated he won't be joining another MLS team.

[Dr. Evil]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

It's already been stated he won't be joining another MLS team.

Hmm....

It may be back to Europe then unless China, Brazil, Russia or the Middle East wows him with a ton of money.

[Darthphere]

Though honestly, at this point do you think Beckham is really thinking about money? I think he would want to go somewhere that is competing in the UCL or a big tournament like that. Or, just end his career back in England. There's been some rumblings from West Ham.

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by wobbly

It's sad as I like Roman because he is a fan. There's no doubt about that.

Unfortunately he just cannot distance himself enough from the team so that the manager can buy & sell as they want, and run the teams the way they want. They are (without notice) subject to whims from on high and failure to achieve Roman's 'Barcelona in Blue' ''dream team, which include playing his personal favourites no matter how awful their form is (he undoubtedly gets too familiar with certain players leading to him losing all objectivity over how bad they are), makes it infuriating for us normal fans who know that dream would be a lot more realistic if he just stayed the hell out of it.

Agreed.

Regarding him pulling out...Thankfully Roman wiped out all previous debts and has bankrolled all the losses since, and after Eufa's fair play ruling the club has been set up properly so they should be able to balance the books when that kicks in (for the time being at any rate). They actually made a profit this year, the first time since Roman bought us, which shows they've either improved their financial handling at the club (or maybe cooked the books for Eufa's benefit...) or that Champions league win was more valuable than we might think. I also know they've made big strides in foreign markets like UTD did years back so I'm sure all that money helps too.

Anyways, if he walked out tomorrow, they will be no worse off as they are currently (on paper at least) in the black. Getting knocked out of the CL early will be costly though so I'd expect that to hamper any spending sprees over the next couple of transfer windows.

Ah, I see. I wasn't sure where they now stood in that department.

[Dr. Evil]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Though honestly, at this point do you think Beckham is really thinking about money? I think he would want to go somewhere that is competing in the UCL or a big tournament like that. Or, just end his career back in England. There's been some rumblings from West Ham.

He would give West Ham some publicity, that's for sure.

[B]

Originally Posted by wobbly

That's exactly why they shouldn't imo: They gave the ref the opportunity to settle the matter in the dressing room after the game. He didn't.

So the question is why didn't he settle it there and then? What did he say that led to Mickel threatening to break the man's legs? I'm reasonably sure it was not an "oh dear, I never said that and I'm sorry if anyone thought I did".

Having failed to settle it when he could have done, and in fact only made the offended player even angrier, he left the club with no real choice but to make the complaint.

The fact the man was given the chance to settle the matter in the dressing room, and only made matters worse, keeps getting overlooked.

What exactly did the players/management from Chelsea that went to him expect him to say? They were obviously still highly heated from getting beat & when you've 4 or 5 people more or less accusing you of saying something, if he'd said "I didn't say what you think I said" do you think the players/management involved would have just accepted it there & then, said "oh ok then." & walked away..?

When you've 4 or 5 people challenging you & accusing you of something it's best to just save your breath because it's like arguing with a drunk person ie pointless.

Originally Posted by wobbly

Agreed, but that and the off-side winner just adds insult to injury from any Chelsea fans perspective. To pay him anything feels like we are paying the guy for having robbed us blind.

You can't hold Clattenburg responsible for the offside goal in the slightest, the blame for that should be aimed at the linesman.

The Torres 2nd yellow was the only debatable decision he made & is directly responsible for. The Ivanovic sending off was justified.

Originally Posted by wobbly

Ok, lets' get this straight: As far as Chelsea were concerned they were not falsely accusing him. They genuinely thought he had a case to answer, the ref did not settle it when given the chance, so it's then the FA's job to rule on what Chelsea thought was a legitimate complaint.

Whether proven later to be mistaken or not, if you think a complaint of this kind has merit it has to be reported, then the authorities can find out the truth.

I fully appreciate what you are saying & I'm not implying that Chelsea reported him out of spite or anything like that. Falsely accusing might seem like harsh wording, however there is no other way I would describe it. Chelsea management should have controlled themselves, taken time to cool down after the game & ensured they got all of the parties involved stories on what happened before going anywhere near the FA or Clattenburg. Obviously I don't know the correct procedure for how they would need to go about wishing to raise a complaint concerning the referee & whether or not it needed to be noted directly after the match. I feel they should have conferred with one another after they'd cooled down, surely between them they could have determined that it was more than likely a misunderstanding. Instead they went with their flaming torches & pitchforks to Clattenburg's changing room to confront him.

Originally Posted by wobbly

I agree they should apologise, and if he has lost money from not refereeing the last few weeks then they can compensate that, but no more than that, as I will not give that clown a pass for making matters worse after the game when there is no good reason why he could not have settled it there and then, and we'd all have been spared this bloody nonsense.

As I said above, when you've 3 or 4 people angrily confronting you about something you've supposedly said it would have been extremely difficult for Clattenburg to settle it there & then with them to the point were they'd have walked away never mentioning it again.

I feel he should be compensated for the games wages he should have had but didn't, in addition to some form of compensation for the distress he & his family no doubt have had over the past month or so.

[Harry_Lime02]

Move along, nothing to see here.

[B]