The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

[BlueLightning]

You know, at the time of the release of Batman Begins, many people noted that the way we see, (or don't see) Batman is putting a viewer in the same place as the criminals he is fighting. We are supposed to see only a wraith that is taking down some thugs.

[Fudgie]

That's nice and all but it still didn't make the fight scenes any clearer or enjoyable for a lot of folk who were *****ing a blue streak over it. When ya see a fight scene ya want to be able to actually see it haha.

[BlueLightning]

Yeah, people complained about that back then too.

[Anno_Domini]

I never did mind the shaky camera style in Batman Begins, but I did mind someone standing in the corner after Batman had taken down all those thugs, lol.

Originally Posted by gzilla46

I didn't see it. But I didn't like the first one. It was too dark. Not like in tone, but I mean literally. I couldn't see much during the night time scenes. I couldn't tell who's hitting who. I mean, Transformers' fights were easier to see than this.

[Brain Damage]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I never did mind the shaky camera style in Batman Begins, but I did mind someone standing in the corner after Batman had taken down all those thugs, lol.

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

The fights in Begins are my favorite. The fights in TDK and TDKR (especially TDK) feel far too choreographed for me. In Begins I actually bought that Batman could kick the crap out of a dozen guys at the same time. In TDK and TDKR it always felt like thugs were just standing around waiting to get hit.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by BlueLightning

Yeah, people complained about that back then too.

It was where we got that dumb complaint that Nolan can't direct action. Balls I say. Yeah his combat scenes ain't as great as they could be but the man does damn good everywhere else in the action.

Actually I strike that, Batman taking out the SWAT teams and Joker's men at the end of TDK was aces.

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Begins is the one that got all the shaky camera complaints. Gotta admit it was annoying.

The first couple of times i saw the movie i was annoyed by it. Then it clicked that it was in the criminals perspective and now i love it. If it was like that in the whole trilogy i would have been upset. TDK got pretty slow at times with the fights but it was a nice change in pace from Begins. TDKR fights were great i thought. Just brute force and strength.

TDK fights, i mean, the guys Batman fought didn't know what they were doing anyway. Jokers goons, Lau's men, etc. They had no idea wtf they were getting themselves into when squaring up against the Batman. I would probably stand there and just stare at him like an idiot too lol. I still love that backhand he gives to Lau's guy, in Hong Kong. It cracks me up everytime. Such a good hit to the face "Shut the **** up"!

[BatLobsterRises]

I loved how Bats vs. Bane II really felt like this huge boxing rematch. I think that fight is starting to edge out the Bat-breaking for me.

[shauner111]

Ya the first one had more of a mixed vibe. The last one was a boxing match for sure.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by shauner111

The first couple of times i saw the movie i was annoyed by it. Then it clicked that it was in the criminals perspective and now i love it. If it was like that in the whole trilogy i would have been upset. TDK got pretty slow at times with the fights but it was a nice change in pace from Begins. TDKR fights were great i thought. Just brute force and strength.

TDK fights, i mean, the guys Batman fought didn't know what they were doing anyway. Jokers goons, Lau's men, etc. They had no idea wtf they were getting themselves into when squaring up against the Batman. I would probably stand there and just stare at him like an idiot too lol. I still love that backhand he gives to Lau's guy, in Hong Kong. It cracks me up everytime. Such a good hit to the face "Shut the **** up"!

Good or bad I wanna be able to see a fight instead of looking at a camera that is flipping and flopping every which way.

Nolan got better with his sequels with the action. He's on a learning curve.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

I'm surprised not a lot of people do notice that leg popping out in the corner like someone's just standing there. And I always wondered if it was Nolan, lol.

The fights in Begins are my favorite. The fights in TDK and TDKR (especially TDK) feel far too choreographed for me. In Begins I actually bought that Batman could kick the crap out of a dozen guys at the same time. In TDK and TDKR it always felt like thugs were just standing around waiting to get hit.

Batman seemed very quick with his fighting, even towards thugs carrying guns, but once weapons were used more, yes, it felt like they were all standing around and having one guy at a time take a shot at Bats. Some fights such as both Batman/Bane fights are fine because it's just a one-on-one match, but even once Batman enters City Hall, there's a guy that tries to even hit Batman with the gun rather than shoot him.

[Fudgie]

Actually in the last fight with Bane and Bats it's best to not look at the fighting going on around them with the Cops and the citizens. It looks so fake hahaha. Just stay focused on Bane and Bats.

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Actually in the last fight with Bane and Bats it's best to not look at the fighting going on around them with the Cops and the citizens. It looks so fake hahaha. Just stay focused on Bane and Bats.

Yeah those extras are retarded ahaha. It's probably why they cut so much from that fight because the extras are so bad. If i was an extra i would gladly take a jab to the face to make it look more real. Doesn't have to be a hard shot.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Actually in the last fight with Bane and Bats it's best to not look at the fighting going on around them with the Cops and the citizens. It looks so fake hahaha. Just stay focused on Bane and Bats.

The extras aren't that bad. I have more of a problem with the LoS member trying to hit Batman with his gun rather than shoot him.

[BlueLightning]

Maybe he ran out of bullets XD

[Anno_Domini]

Batman to Miranda: "Cover the doors with a gun that has no bullets left!", lol

[BatLobsterRises]

Maybe Bane ordered his men not to kill Batman because only he gets that privilege? *Shrug*

I love when Bane knees that one guy in the face though.

[BlueLightning]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Batman to Miranda: "Cover the doors with a gun that has no bullets left!", lol

Hahaha! Now I get it! I thought you were referring to some random thug in the brawl.

[Green Ghoul]

A letdown? No. That's a little too severe.

My opinion of this trilogy is very similar to my opinion of the original Star Wars trilogy.

A New Hope / Batman Begins
Both are my 2nd favorite in each trilogy. Both were good films, but overshadowed by the next installment. The reason why I prefer the 1st over the 3rd with both: originality.

The Empire Strikes Back / The Dark Knight
Near perfect. Great villains. The risks were higher. Not only were the stories better than the originals, but they also remained fresh and new. Both had awesome cliffhangers.

Return of the Jedi / The Dark Knight Rises
Both were good films, but both tried to mirror the first film, which felt like a downgrade from the 2nd installment. Most fans were hoping for an upgrade.

As dumb as Scream 3 was, it made a valid point: third installments like to revisit the first one (Spiderman 3 is also guilty of this). Although writers consider it a way of "tying the story together", sometimes they would be better off progressing the story into unknown territory, simply because of the reasons I pointed out above.

[Anno_Domini]

I actually liked Scream 3, lol.

Let alone, Iron Man 3 will be doing this as well with going back to the Ten Rings plot by bringing in Mandarin.

[shauner111]

I didnt like Scream 3, i enjoyed the 4th a little more.

It makes sense for a third movie to go back to the first a bit, only if it's the final chapter. It worked for TDKR, i dont understand when they do it for a third film and they know theres a huge possibility of more sequels. That bugs me. Then it's just lazy. I know the Bond franchise is set-up a little differently, but you didn't see Skyfall resort back to Casino Royale territory. They moved things forward all the way, because they know the story is continuing for 2 more films.

[CoolCadaver49]

Yes, it was disappointing, imho. Also, 49th "Yes" vote, booyah!

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by CoolCadaver49

Yes, it was disappointing, imho. Also, 49th "Yes" vote, booyah!

Congrats?

[CoolCadaver49]

Thank you! And to clarify, I still liked the movie, I just didn't like it as much as the other two. The fact that it's the last one rubs salt in the wound a bit for me. Kinda like Return of the Jedi. I still respect it as part of the trilogy, but standing apart from the rest of the movies, it's a lot weaker, and it retroactively alters the other movies for the worse, imo.

[Green Ghoul]

Originally Posted by shauner111

I didnt like Scream 3, i enjoyed the 4th a little more.

It makes sense for a third movie to go back to the first a bit, only if it's the final chapter. It worked for TDKR, i dont understand when they do it for a third film and they know theres a huge possibility of more sequels. That bugs me. Then it's just lazy. I know the Bond franchise is set-up a little differently, but you didn't see Skyfall resort back to Casino Royale territory. They moved things forward all the way, because they know the story is continuing for 2 more films.

If I remember right Spiderman was also greenlit for 4, 5 and 6 before 3 came out.

I do agree that with a trilogy it's fine to revisit the first film, to some degree. At the same time, I also think mirroring the 1st film too much ends up being an Achilles's heel, simply because it doesn't feel fresh or new for some.

The best example I can give for TDKR is the Talia/LoS/Ra's ties. None of those elements were necessary to revisit the whole legend/symbol spin that Nolan initiated with Batman Begins. Batman retiring and John Blake were the only two that were necessary.

Sadly, Bane's involvement in the story probably had a lot to do with this. Contrary to what some fans think, the Talia/LoS/Ra's ties made Bane a much more believable character. Bane's real origin and motives (see below) probably wouldn't have worked on film without the whole thing coming across as too weak.

Taken from Wiki:

His ambition turns to destroying Batman, about whom he had heard stories while an inmate. Gotham fascinates Bane because, like Peña Dura, fear rules Gotham -but it is the fear of the Batman. Bane is convinced that Batman is the demonic bat which haunted his dreams since childhood. Therefore, Bane believes fate placed Batman on a collision course with him.