Official 2012 Nickelodeon Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Discussion

[Cain]

I never liked the 2K3 show all that much either. It definitely took itself too seriously to the point of being obnoxious. It's the one Turtles incarnation I don't care to ever revisit. At least the mirage comics still had some underlying satire to them within their "seriousness". This new show strikes a great balance between humor and pathos just like the Archie comics did and I really am enjoying it quite a bit.

[ShredderX]

Peter Laird wanted the 2003 toon to be as close to the Mirage comic as possible. The TMNT was a parody of " Daredevil ", " New Mutants ", and " Ronin ". The turtles were never these little dudes that ran around eating pizza all day and doing slap sticky $h#t. They were bad ass ninjas who got caught up in extraordinary situations. The 2003 toon was never meant to be " fun ". Just like " Dark Knight " was never meant to be " fun " like the 1960's Batman. The turtles are now a parody of themselves, a parody of a parody if you will. As far as animation goes, traditional 2D will always be better to me, than CGI.

[BlueLightning]

I love the 2003 series. It was enjoyable for me in many aspects, from the storylines, continuity, twists and characters. But this new show is a mix and and match of the best of the old toon and the 2k3 version. Now we had TMNT for all tastes, the balanced 2k3, the wacky old toon, the "grim and gritty" comics, and now this new series, which I'm not sure how to label it, but sure it's fun.

[LostSon88]

Well...without that 'parody' version, the world would've never known about the TMNT.

That's why I'll always have nothing but respect for the 87' Series. People can hate all they want, fact is, it put the Ninja Turtles on the map.

[BlueLightning]

I think ShredderX referred to the original TMNT #1 comic as a parody, which it was.

[ShredderX]

Originally Posted by BlueLightning

I think ShredderX referred to the original TMNT #1 comic as a parody, which it was.

CORRECT. And I also have nothing but respect for the 87 Fred Wolf toon also. Without it, Turtle Mania wouldn't existed. Thing is, the TMNT have never graduated from the 87 image. Whenever you mention TMNT, people never put it on the same level as say, Batman or X-Men, but see it as something thats for " kids " because the constant adaptations are based on pizza eating slapstick comedy, as opposed to mutant ninja assassins. Archie comics back in the aerly 90's were a perfect balance because it was in the style of the 87 toon, but the writng, storylines and plots were similar to Mirage's (minus the turtles killing.) It was everything you loved about the cartoon that was popular at the time, minus the slapstick.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by ShredderX

Peter Laird wanted the 2003 toon to be as close to the Mirage comic as possible.

And unlike Mirage it was mostly boring because it was still a kids show trying it's damndest to seem "grown up" and it felt inorganic a lot of the time. At least this new show is more conscious of what it is and isn't trying too hard to prove itself as being "more".

The TMNT was a parody of " Daredevil ", " New Mutants ", and " Ronin ".

Yes which is the concept where a lot of the humor in the Mirage books derives from including having "serious anti-heroes".

The turtles were never these little dudes that ran around eating pizza all day and doing slap sticky $h#t.

And outside of the latter Fred Wolf seasons which I didn't even see since I outgrew the show by the 4th season this hasn't really been the case and nobody is asking for it to be.

The 2003 toon was never meant to be " fun ".

Somehow I don't think this is true at all considering we're talking about a kid's show here. It just wasn't very successful at being organically fun.

Just like " Dark Knight " was never meant to be " fun " like the 1960's Batman.

But it was still meant to be fun in it's own right which it was a lot of the times.

The turtles are now a parody of themselves, a parody of a parody if you will.

BS. It's like saying "Batman of today is a joke" because he's grown beyond his original concept as a gun toting vigilante who had no real qualms about killing his foes. It's called a concept evolving beyond it's original identity is all.

This is how these properties manage to survive from generation to generation and not remain stale. The Turtles are NOW still the Turtles only difference is that they have much more dimensions than they did in the Mirage days. Back then they were purposely portrayed to be one note for satirical purposes and this is coming from a Mirage fan. Now a days they're more fleshed out and well rounded and there is nothing wrong with that. The current incarnations (IDW comics and the Nick show) are stronger for it.

[Neptune]

I agree with the idea that a franchise should evolve. The 80's cartoon definitely put TMNT on the map and we all know it's way more kiddie than the original comics. But i would definitely like to see them go back to their gritty and more violent roots. Obviously a cartoon on Nickelodeon isn't gonna be gritty and violent but that when the turtles are at their best if you ask me.

[ShredderX]

Originally Posted by Cain

And unlike Mirage it was mostly boring because it was still a kids show trying it's damndest to seem "grown up" and it felt inorganic a lot of the time. At least this new show is more conscious of what it is and isn't trying too hard to prove itself as being "more".



Yes which is the concept where a lot of the humor in the Mirage books derives from including having "serious anti-heroes".



And outside of the latter Fred Wolf seasons which I didn't even see since I outgrew the show by the 4th season this hasn't really been the case and nobody is asking for it to be.



Somehow I don't think this is true at all considering we're talking about a kid's show here. It just wasn't very successful at being organically fun.



But it was still meant to be fun in it's own right which it was a lot of the times.



BS. It's like saying "Batman of today is a joke" because he's grown beyond his original concept as a gun toting vigilante who had no real qualms about killing his foes. It's called a concept evolving beyond it's original identity is all.

This is how these properties manage to survive from generation to generation and not remain stale. The Turtles are NOW still the Turtles only difference is that they have much more dimensions than they did in the Mirage days. Back then they were purposely portrayed to be one note for satirical purposes and this is coming from a Mirage fan. Now a days they're more fleshed out and well rounded and there is nothing wrong with that. The current incarnations (IDW comics and the Nick show) are stronger for it.

So the 2003 cartoon was boring because it tried to be more " grown up " ? So what do you think about X-Men the animated series from the 90's or Batman : The Animated series, or Gargoyles ? How would you feel if those shows were remade in a " fun" style like " Ultimate Spider-Man ? " 2003 TMNT IMO was on the same level as those shows, and they were highly favored. And apparently 4Kids were doing something right, because the show did manage to last for 6 years. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because other than minor things like Shredder being an Utrom, I think 2003 TMNT was a perfect adaptation. And sure there was SOME humor in Mirage books, but not slapstick, but for the most part it took itself seriously ( and to be honest, I'm not sure what humor you're talking about, the only person who said or did anything remotely funny was Mikey on occasion) Stories like " The River ", " Return to New York ", " City at War " were pretty serious storylines. And true, Batman may not be the gun-toting vigilante, but he's still faithful to his dark roots from the 40's and not the Campy 60's show. Like I said the Nick show is good, one of the better shows out on saturday morning now, but I just think the 2003 show is better.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by ShredderX

So the 2003 cartoon was boring because it tried to be more " grown up " ? So what do you think about X-Men the animated series from the 90's or Batman : The Animated series, or Gargoyles ?

Never watched Gargoyles nor was I ever really into any of those poorly animated Marvel shows on Fox like Spider-Man or X-Men (though I've read the comics since the late 80's) but Batman TAS had a great balance. It didn't insult adults but it didn't try to act like it wasn't catering to children either.

How would you feel if those shows were remade in a " fun" style like " Ultimate Spider-Man ? "

Batman: The Brave & The Bold says hi. That was one of the best adaptations of Batman I've ever seen too.

2003 TMNT IMO was on the same level as those shows, and they were highly favored.

I disagree. I don't think it was on BTAS' level at all. Maybe X-Men but that show was no real great shakes either IMO. The only really good thing about that show is that it made kids in the 90's X-Men fans. I give 2K3 Turtles the same credit in that even though I didn't really like that show overall it at least brought in a new generation of fans and kept the property afloat.

And sure there was SOME humor in Mirage books, but not slapstick, but for the most part it took itself seriously ( and to be honest, I'm not sure what humor you're talking about, the only person who said or did anything remotely funny was Mikey on occasion) Stories like " The River ", " Return to New York ", " City at War " were pretty serious storylines.

It's called satire not "whocka whocka whocka" type humor but a tongue in cheek deconstruction of a lot of the tropes of comics like 80's Daredevil and Frank Miller's Ronin. You don't need blatant jokes to be peppered around a comic for it to have any humor. Satirical humor is just as valid. The Mirage comics were funny for the same reason a movie like Dr. Strangelove and it's outlook on cold war tropes is funny. It wasn't just explicit grimdarkness it was serious but still tongue in cheek.

And true, Batman may not be the gun-toting vigilante, but he's still faithful to his dark roots from the 40's and not the Campy 60's show.

Without the campy 60's show Batman probably wouldn't even be around so I don't understand trying to sell it short like it's some worthless adaptation. It was also pretty damn faithful to the mythos and a lot of the "campy" elements from the 60's show and comic books still remain in today's Batman comics and other forms of Batman media.

Like I said the Nick show is good, one of the better shows out on saturday morning now, but I just think the 2003 show is better.

That's cool. I think the Nick show is much better balanced and entertaining so far and it could only get better as it goes along.

[BlueLightning]

So what are we arguing about now? I don't think anyone in here disliked the old toon, and if some people didn't like the 2k3 series is fine. No one is taking merits from one incarnation or another.

[Cain]

There is no argument. Just conversation which is what this forum was created for.

[ShredderX]

Yeah, no arguing. Just making some valid points on both sides about why we love certain aspects of the different versions of TMNT. Cain and others like Nick's toon over the 2003, I like the Nick toon, but think the 2003 version was better. Just difference of opinion and tastes, and we managed to discuss it without name calling and what not,which is hard for fanboys to do on forums when they feel passionate about something or trying to get a point across.

[BlueLightning]

That's all right then. On other news, I couldn't resist to point the obvious:

[MrGreen]

Originally Posted by ShredderX

So the 2003 cartoon was boring because it tried to be more " grown up " ? So what do you think about X-Men the animated series from the 90's or Batman : The Animated series, or Gargoyles ? How would you feel if those shows were remade in a " fun" style like " Ultimate Spider-Man ? " 2003 TMNT IMO was on the same level as those shows, and they were highly favored. And apparently 4Kids were doing something right, because the show did manage to last for 6 years. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because other than minor things like Shredder being an Utrom, I think 2003 TMNT was a perfect adaptation. And sure there was SOME humor in Mirage books, but not slapstick, but for the most part it took itself seriously ( and to be honest, I'm not sure what humor you're talking about, the only person who said or did anything remotely funny was Mikey on occasion) Stories like " The River ", " Return to New York ", " City at War " were pretty serious storylines. And true, Batman may not be the gun-toting vigilante, but he's still faithful to his dark roots from the 40's and not the Campy 60's show. Like I said the Nick show is good, one of the better shows out on saturday morning now, but I just think the 2003 show is better.

I really liked the 2003 show but I think this new Nick version is shaping up to be the better cartoon (too soon to tell). The 2003 show was dark, was emotional (the episode Nano was great) and had lots of great action and references (Raph saying "go ahead, make my day" is still my favorite). The thing with the Nick cartoon is that it reminds me of the first live action movie, with a great balance of comedy, character development and great action.
I'll label them like this
87 - Wacky fun show
03 - Serious and lots of action
Nick - A balance of great action and comedy

[Spider-Aziz]

Rad Brad & Xever finally turn to this show version of Bebop & Rocksteady
Best quote this episode:
Donatello: "Guys, Mikey was right about something"

[Rowen]

panic in the sewers



this episode is ok, it was kinda cool to se the turtles driving the go-karts.
and bradful seems like an evil villing besides shredder.the turtles have thier hands full fighting braford.the turtles will beat shredder. they just have to get stronger mentally and physicaly.

[ShredderX]

Definately gotta get Dog Pound and Fish Face for my collection.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

I've got my fingers crossed that Dog Pound and Fish Face keep on being anti-Bebop and Rocksteady.

Baseless speculation:The Krang are scattered throughout our dimension trying to perfect the Ooze as a weapon in their war with the Triceratons.

[LostSon88]

I'd love to see a new interpretation of Bebop and Rocksteady. Not jokey though.

Perhaps members of the Purple Dragons?

Oh and…LOVED this weeks episode.

[Lord Valumart]

I am loving this series. It's just full of awesome fights and actual funny jokes. And the Turtles on go karts was just awesome.

[Lunar_Wolf]

[terry78]

Did you buy all that ****?

[pr0xyt0xin]

I agree with an above poster. This cartoon is quickly becoming one of my favorites. I already prefer it to the 1987 and much of 2003.

As of episodes 8 and 9 it surpassed clone wars on my list of favorite cartoons currently on the air:

1. Legend of Korra
2. Adventure Time
3. TMNT
4. Star Wars Clone Wars
5. Tron Uprising

[pr0xyt0xin]

I also want to clarify so as not to start any fights. I'm mostly referring to 2003's season 6 and 7 (fast foward and back to the sewer). They were pretty bad.

I still love the first 5 seasons and turtles forever...