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Old 11-13-2012, 06:11 PM   #426
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Even in your hypothetical situation you don't have to file a Police report to have a confirmed sighting of the Batman.
Perhaps not...I do wonder though, what exactly constitutes a "confirmed" sighting in the police's viewpoint? The line struck me because it could have easily just been "the last sighting of the Batman", but the word "confirmed" there added a tinge of ambiguity, even if it's just police jargon. It immediately made me wonder...well, what about unconfirmed sightings?


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Have you ever seen Batman Beyond? When Bruce was actively helping Terry McGuinness, the new Batman, from the Batcave. It didn't make him Batman again. Terry was Batman.

Sitting at a computer watching things doesn't make a Batman, IMO.
I love Batman Beyond, and you're right. That's why I said one foot in the door...I guess what I am saying is it would make more sense for there to be a gradual decline there. I don't think he just closed up shop immediately. Lines like "The Batman wasn't needed anymore...we won" suggest that Bruce didn't think of himself as "retired" until that legislation was passed. I really felt that was the impression the movie was trying to convey.

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:14 PM   #427
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When you hear how bad Bruce's body is in the hospital scene, you know it would have taken years for it to get in such a state.
Talking about this, I'm genuinely curious about the nature of the injuries. Bruce was being Batman constantly during the period between Begins and TDK. That meaning being hit constantly, and perhaps stabbed and shot. Also taking into account falling from high places, even with the aid of the cape, I'm guessing that could take a toll into the articulations. Not to mention the sleep deprivation.

I'm guessing the limp Bruce has Rises is because his battle with the Joker and Two-Face final encounter. He was limping in the last scene in TDK. That makes me think that one of the reasons he stopped being Batman was the body damage. Added to that, now he was being hunted by the authorities and later with the creation and passing of the Dent act.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:48 PM   #428
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I'm guessing the limp Bruce has Rises is because his battle with the Joker and Two-Face final encounter. He was limping in the last scene in TDK. That makes me think that one of the reasons he stopped being Batman was the body damage. Added to that, now he was being hunted by the authorities and later with the creation and passing of the Dent act.
It can go either way. That could very well be the case, or he could have developed arthritis of the knee and his knee could have gotten worse over time. The doc saying he had no cartilage in his knee jives with that, as with osteoarthritis the cartilage gradually wears away. There's also post-traumatic arthritis, which can develop years after the initial injury.

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Old 11-13-2012, 08:46 PM   #429
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What makes TDK so enduring is how it finishes out in the end. Everything in the movie gets better when you realize what Joker's endgame is and the lesson Batman is going to learn in the end. What Alfred tells Bruce throughout the movie prefaces that EPIC speech about Batman being a "Dark Knight". When I first watched TDK I thought it was a great film, subsequent viewings have made me view it as a masterpiece.


TDKR not only makes that TDK ending much less epic than it is (So, a Dark Knight must endure by....quitting?), it also builds toward an anti-climactic ending.

Wow, Bane is an awesome villain. Look how much he is destroying Gotham. Why is he doing all this? Oh, because Talia wants him to

Wow, Bruce hasn't been Batman for eight years. I guess we're going to see how hard it is to get back in the game. Unless he finds a magical brace

Oh my god, Bane is going to take over the city and prevent the government from entering it. I wonder how the citizens will react They'll conveniently be hiding in their houses for five months until everything is over.

Wow, Batman might actually die in this movie. Unless he fakes his death because.......because......


The movie is most disappointing in how it treats Bane. As a villain whose characterization is just as good as the Joker's (IMO), knowing that he would never even have attacked Gotham if not for Talia makes him seem much less cool when viewing it from the beginning.
Quoted for truth.

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Old 11-14-2012, 01:08 PM   #430
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The pit was a brilliant metaphorical thread used to weave Bane and Bruce together; it broke down, in my opinion, when a needless twist was introduced to supplant Bane with Talia in the dichotomy that had been so carefully constructed.
I agree. it was the lazarus pit basically it was done in a metaphorical way.

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Old 11-14-2012, 01:17 PM   #431
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

The Talia twist was the resolution though. It showed that Bane is still "stuck" down there metaphorically, while Bruce was able to rise.

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Old 11-14-2012, 01:49 PM   #432
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My biggest issue with the film is regarding Bruce being an injured recluse for 8yrs. Hiding himself up in the mansion.

This just doesnt make sense at all when considering the character and the films before.

But..
Bruce wouldve and shouldve still been active in watching over his city.

He has an advanced computer in a working batcave.
It wouldve been so much better that he became a recluse in the cave.
Obsessively keeping watch on his city and Being similar to "oracle" and helping Gordon keep the streets clean as his silent helper.
You could still have Alfred imploring him to get out and find a life.
"Your'e not Batman anymore".
All this still wouldve worked and it wouldve been more true to the character.
He couldve, wouldve and shouldve still been in decent shape. although out of form. Still keep the battered body scene somewhat. showing the toll being Batman took on his body.
I think he's supposed to be depressed or something like that. Before he came back to Gotham to become the Batman, he was a criminal in prison with no meaning in his life. After the Dark Knight he can no longer be Batman (well, he could, but that would conflict with Harvey Dent as the symbol of good in the city, and Batman the evil).
Having to lie and no longer being able to be Batman, he probably feels beaten and castrated or powerless, and without a purpose in life. The defeat in TDK sends him into a depression. Remember, that Batman has always been his mean to channel his feelings after the loss of his parents.
That being said, I do see what you mean. What you're suggesting could've well too, maybe better. I don't know.
I don't know if you're supposed to analyze the movie to this degree either, but it does make some sense, even though it isn't made clear.

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Old 11-24-2012, 03:43 PM   #433
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

All I'm gonna say here is TDKR is THE best 3rd act in the genre. So far.

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:06 PM   #434
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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All I'm gonna say here is TDKR is THE best 3rd act in the genre. So far.
Spider-Man 2.

But yeah, TDKR's 3rd act definitely is up there.

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:28 PM   #435
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All I'm gonna say here is TDKR is THE best 3rd act in the genre. So far.
IMO it's gotta be TDK.

I think the biggest problem I have with TDKR is how much potential the whole story had, it EASILY should've been the best movie in the trilogy and the conception was all fantastic, but the execution just wasn't great. The whole Batman returning to Gotham think and the cops vs. Bane's men should've been EPIC. Instead we're stuck with about 2/3 minutes of a battle that occurs awkwardly (mercenaries shooting with automatic weapons yet only hitting a couple of cops, Folies death, shoddy choreography) and then a cliche ticking bomb finale with the Bat flying it away. Then there's the unnecessary Robin thing and the even less necessary Bruce faking his death thing. Obviously this is all my opinion,but I actually liked the first act better than the last act.

With TDK, it upends superhero conventions by having the hero not ride away triumphantly at the end. The Joker's capture was where a lot of people (who weren't browsing SHH) thought the film would actually end. Then you get that sickening feeling when you find out Harvey and Rachel have been captured, hospitals start blowing up, Two Face arise, just UTTER CHAOS. I still think that Batman vs. Swat fight is the best scene in the whole trilogy and I love that the actual climax had Batman, Gordon, and Harvey, such a beautiful scene. I love EVERYTHING about the last 20 minutes of the movie, and that speech at the end still gives me goosebumps. I think TDK is not only the best 3rd act in superhero endings, but one of the best in ANY genre

- With TDKR everything was expected, it follows the action movie formula and is somewhat boring in its execution. I literally wasn't surprised or excited by anything that happened in that finale, that TDK ending is glorious though

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:32 PM   #436
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

My biggest beef with the faking death thing is when Batman tells Selina "No autopilot"

Why does he do this? The only reason I can think of is that he's a dick.

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:35 PM   #437
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Chris said THE best 3rd act in the genre. So far.
To which I agree.

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:38 PM   #438
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My biggest beef with the faking death thing is when Batman tells Selina "No autopilot"

Why does he do this? The only reason I can think of is that he's a dick.
At the beginning of Rises, Bruce has some kind of a deathwish. On that moment, he still has the chance to die like he wanted. But during the film, he changes his perspective on his life, and decides to save himself.

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:39 PM   #439
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My biggest beef with the faking death thing is when Batman tells Selina "No autopilot"

Why does he do this? The only reason I can think of is that he's a dick.
Better to keep her hopes down perhaps? I mean suppose his autopilot patch was buggy. No matter what it's still pretty risky to fly a nuke out to sea, might as well prepare her for the worst.

And yeah, Batman is kind of a dick sometimes lol.

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:48 PM   #440
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At the beginning of Rises, Bruce has some kind of a deathwish. On that moment, he still has the chance to die like he wanted. But during the film, he changes his perspective on his life, and decides to save himself.
But this was towards the end after the battle with Bane. Didn't Bruce find his "will to live" down in the prison? I'm thinking it was just another way to make the audience think Batman would die, I can't think of any logical reason why he would've told Selena that there was no autopilot in that particular moment

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Old 11-24-2012, 05:00 PM   #441
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Still, this time he had a personal choice. He was still gonna save Gotham, that was granted. In the Pit, it was uncertain if he was going to succeed. He had to get out of the Pit. The last time is a choice.

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Old 11-24-2012, 05:03 PM   #442
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Maybe it's DAT Bat-Cat kiss that makes him finally make the choice to save himself

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Old 11-24-2012, 05:04 PM   #443
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He didn't have to get out of the Pit. He could have stayed and died there, and at first, that's exactly what he wanted, even asking the doctors to let him die.

By the time Bruce climbed out of the pit he had made the choice to keep on living. You cannot fear death if you do not have the will to live, and Bruce needed to fear death to climb out of the pit. Thus, mathematicians will tell us, Bruce wanted to live.

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Old 11-24-2012, 05:15 PM   #444
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Nolan Batman was to Realistic for me.
It wasn't too realistic, though. It made liberties to fits its own universe if had created, but if it were too realistic, there wouldn't really be a cape in the trilogy, nor a bike coming out of the tank-like vehicle in The Dark Knight, and I could go on, but I won't, lol.

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All I'm gonna say here is TDKR is THE best 3rd act in the genre. So far.


Surprised this is coming from you since I thought you enjoyed Spider-Man 3.

But, I definitely agree!

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Spider-Man 2.

But yeah, TDKR's 3rd act definitely is up there.
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IMO it's gotta be TDK.




Lol.

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Old 11-24-2012, 05:16 PM   #445
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I think it wasn't that simple though. He harbored that death wish for who knows how much time. In the Pit, there was still possibility that he couldn't get out, and to be unable to do nothing to save Gotham scared Bruce.

I do fear death. I fear dying in here while my city burns with no one there to save it.

Whereas while flying the Bat, it is all done. There was nothing more, he could leave, Gotham was secure. But Bruce gave himself a chance not only to live, but to be finally happy.

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Old 11-24-2012, 06:44 PM   #446
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IMO it's gotta be TDK.
TDK's third act was just epic. It's full of tension, and you feel like anything can happen. Nolan keeps us in this constant state of dread, that TDKR tried to replicate during it's second act, unsuccesfully.

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I think the biggest problem I have with TDKR is how much potential the whole story had, it EASILY should've been the best movie in the trilogy and the conception was all fantastic, but the execution just wasn't great. The whole Batman returning to Gotham think and the cops vs. Bane's men should've been EPIC. Instead we're stuck with about 2/3 minutes of a battle that occurs awkwardly (mercenaries shooting with automatic weapons yet only hitting a couple of cops, Folies death, shoddy choreography) and then a cliche ticking bomb finale with the Bat flying it away. Then there's the unnecessary Robin thing and the even less necessary Bruce faking his death thing. Obviously this is all my opinion,but I actually liked the first act better than the last act.
Agreed on all counts. In fact, I think the movie just sort of falls apart the minute Talia reveals herself

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With TDK, it upends superhero conventions by having the hero not ride away triumphantly at the end. The Joker's capture was where a lot of people (who weren't browsing SHH) thought the film would actually end. Then you get that sickening feeling when you find out Harvey and Rachel have been captured, hospitals start blowing up, Two Face arise, just UTTER CHAOS. I still think that Batman vs. Swat fight is the best scene in the whole trilogy and I love that the actual climax had Batman, Gordon, and Harvey, such a beautiful scene. I love EVERYTHING about the last 20 minutes of the movie, and that speech at the end still gives me goosebumps. I think TDK is not only the best 3rd act in superhero endings, but one of the best in ANY genre

- With TDKR everything was expected, it follows the action movie formula and is somewhat boring in its execution. I literally wasn't surprised or excited by anything that happened in that finale, that TDK ending is glorious though
Agreed. Although I would say my favorite piece of Batman action is the whole Arkham sequence in BB. It's just beautiful.

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:58 PM   #447
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Agreed on all counts. In fact, I think the movie just sort of falls apart the minute Talia reveals herself






Meh. Only to fanboys who knew Tate was Talia about 8 months before the film was released.

From what I gather, the general movie going audience absolutely loved the reveal and the ending of the film.

I was just in a discussion about the ending with a bunch of family and friends (I have a ton of family and friends who all get together over the Holidays) on Thanksgiving and the reaction to the twist ending was very positive.

Now about 95% of this group are not comic genre fanboys and do not follow the Batman mythos like I do. They all loved the ending and I told them that I knew who Talia from the comics and I kinda knew she would be in this film about 4 months before production started.

One of my cousins said, "ohhh...so you knew who Talia was beforehand cause you follow the comics"?

Then him and a couple of others in the group, said that was a sweet or good way for Nolan to tie everything together with that twist ending.

It's all subjective fellas.


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Old 11-24-2012, 08:07 PM   #448
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IMO it's gotta be TDK.

I think the biggest problem I have with TDKR is how much potential the whole story had, it EASILY should've been the best movie in the trilogy and the conception was all fantastic, but the execution just wasn't great. The whole Batman returning to Gotham think and the cops vs. Bane's men should've been EPIC. Instead we're stuck with about 2/3 minutes of a battle that occurs awkwardly (mercenaries shooting with automatic weapons yet only hitting a couple of cops, Folies death, shoddy choreography) and then a cliche ticking bomb finale with the Bat flying it away. Then there's the unnecessary Robin thing and the even less necessary Bruce faking his death thing. Obviously this is all my opinion,but I actually liked the first act better than the last act.

With TDK, it upends superhero conventions by having the hero not ride away triumphantly at the end. The Joker's capture was where a lot of people (who weren't browsing SHH) thought the film would actually end. Then you get that sickening feeling when you find out Harvey and Rachel have been captured, hospitals start blowing up, Two Face arise, just UTTER CHAOS. I still think that Batman vs. Swat fight is the best scene in the whole trilogy and I love that the actual climax had Batman, Gordon, and Harvey, such a beautiful scene. I love EVERYTHING about the last 20 minutes of the movie, and that speech at the end still gives me goosebumps. I think TDK is not only the best 3rd act in superhero endings, but one of the best in ANY genre

- With TDKR everything was expected, it follows the action movie formula and is somewhat boring in its execution. I literally wasn't surprised or excited by anything that happened in that finale, that TDK ending is glorious though
This is an excellent post

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TDK's third act was just epic. It's full of tension, and you feel like anything can happen. Nolan keeps us in this constant state of dread, that TDKR tried to replicate during it's second act, unsuccesfully.
I wouldn't say it was all unsuccessful. When the siege kicks off is really great. Bane's speech outside Blackgate was good, too. But it didn't match the TDK scale in terms of excitement and tension for me.

Quote:
Agreed on all counts. In fact, I think the movie just sort of falls apart the minute Talia reveals herself
Her existence in her Talia persona is short lived. The movie is practically over by the time she is revealed. Hence why it was impossible for me to even care about her character.

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Old 11-24-2012, 08:08 PM   #449
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Lol.
Spider-Man 2's third act was AWESOME. Spidey coming back (with that awesome scene where he steals the suit from JJ's office), the train fight, Harry finding out Peter is Spider-Man and then discovering his father's lair, MJ finding out Peter is Spider-Man and then ending the movie with "Go get 'em tiger."

How could you not love it?!

Oh. And let's not forget.

AVVVEEEENGEEE MEEEEHH!!!!!

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Old 11-24-2012, 08:19 PM   #450
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

I believe Chris was speaking on TDKR being the best 3rd film.

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