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#201 |
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I think the variation in technology and looks has to do with making Nornheim look varied, as apparently it is in the comics. Karnilla is a sorceress, magic to her may look like advanced science to someone else.
![]() if this is a rag tag band of marauders gathered from over time and space, come to reap destruction on Asgard and the 9 reams, that seems like a pretty big villain for the Asgardian's to deal with. So certainly not a small part if that is true. So how does that fit in with everything else we think is going to happen? It doesn't. Questions: how is a rag tag band of marauders gathered over time and space even remotely considered a "kingdom"? as described in the Shepperton Studios information released about that filming, it said it would be a battle between "two kingdoms" when Thor shows up to save the day. There was also a note in one article Marvel Freshman did about a leader of the "marauder army" apparently requiring a ginger beard. The scenario that makes the most sense for that little tid bit is that the "marauder army" is Vanir. Otherwise, why would a random group of marauders need a leader with a "ginger beard". If this is a rag tag band of marauders gathered over time and space, where do they keep all their horses? On their spaceship? Because they certainly wouldnt do well on a spaceship with no exercise, poor diet, and no fresh air and sunshine, with a bunch of nasty guys taking care of them. And what of the guy on the white horse? Again, that's up there with a big red bus with "Moral Sacrifice" on it. A man on a white horse typically means a "good guy", and this guy is on what is a really beautiful *gleaming* white horse, to boot. but he seems to be with the team that is attacking the Asgardians (although it is hard to tell for sure who is fighting who here, I admit, I think all 3 groups are fighting at once, to be honest). And Freyr's description with the horse and the sword fits very well with the guy pictured. How is gathering a crew of guys over time and space to marauder all over the place exploring the Nine Realms as we've been told will happen? It takes away from that, severely. There is no reason to add a group like that, there is enough to explore and enough going on without some random group of marauders that in the end mean nothing to the rest of the story. Last edited by elizah72; 11-24-2012 at 07:10 AM. |
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#202 | |||||||
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Fits in perfectly. Also provides story links and continuity with *at least* two other Phase II films --- GOTG and Avengers 2. Quote:
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Thanos *will* make good on his cinematic promise.
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#203 | ||||||||||
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Feige confirmed back in May that Thanos WILL NOT be in Thor 2.
http://collider.com/thor-2-sequel-kevin-feige/169494/ Quote:
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and "a major major new antagonist..." Hm... that would seem to be pointing to two different things. Antagonist is typically a description used of a character that isn't necessarily a villain per se, but an adversary of the protagonist of a story who struggles against and/or competes with them. IE: Asgardians VS Vanir in the myths. Not so much evil villains, but more grey multi layered antagonists. Quote:
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and speaking of the timetravel thing, I mean, that would open a HUGE can of worms to open in the MCU. They have enough to deal with and keep straight. I cannot imagine that rumor is going to end up being true. That will make everything SO MUCH more complicated and confusing, and it already is complicated and has potential to become very confusing with all the different characters and powers and such. Quote:
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![]() And I'm assuming when we do see Tyr he will already be missing a hand, since he iconically is missing a hand. which is I suspect why they picked him because he'd be interesting and stand out for that reason. (and no I am not thinking they will show the story why either, it'll just be there). In any case, this guy is not missing either hand. Quote:
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#204 |
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![]() ![]() If Thanos is in this, he will probably just have an appearance. But this movie will be staying to Thor mythos. I don't doubt that the mad titan won't appear, he will probably be referenced or sometihng, or a cameo, but he won't really be a plot. I am not saying anything, but don't take Fiege's words so heavily. There is A LOT they don't tell us. But as I said a few weeks ago, I don't think the mad titan will be in this movie, outside of a possible cameo. Some realms may be involved as well, but lets not get our hopes up. Cause based on everyone's thoughts right now, there is A LOT going on. With the dark elves, hela, karnilla, and all these realms and armies. I think it's a good idea, but I think it may be a little too much to work on film. I think primarily the races we will see are the dark elves, the asgardians, and that maurador army, who's ever army it is, be it hela, or someone else. I just don't think it will be as packed as some of you are making it out to be, cause well, it just seems packed. Don't forget, Fiege said this movie will be second only to the avengers in scale. And if it is anything like we are speculating, then it will blow away the avengers in terms of scale I think. So that's my thought, we get malekith, kurse, dark elves, asgardians, and whoever this maurudor army is, possibly hela's. and then surtur's presence and an after credit scene. I don't see it getting more packed than this maybe tyr will be the leader of this maurador army
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#205 | |||||
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#206 | ||||
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So my very brief summary is that with the bifrost destroyed, chaos is through out the 9 realms. Some of which are at war. Malekith is contacted somehow by surtur, given power (maybe, yet, could explain why he is able to fight Thor, cause Thor should be tearing malekith appart) maybe. Malekith wants to take advantage of this chaos, and his new knowledge and power, and assert himself as the dominant being of the 9 realms. He gets at war this some other realms, thor travels to a darker side of asgard to get Loki's help, who in turn goes to hela. they must fight to stop malekith from completing his plan and plunging the 9 realms into darkness. Meanwhile, Surtur has created a diversion where he can work on twilight in peace, where he plans to destroy the 9 realms, and kill Odin. He is revealed welding Twilight after credits. That's where I am at. Very brief. I do prefer Surtur to appear after credits as well, I think that's the best route, like you said. Literally the only thing that is keeping me from it, is that in the synopsis it sounds like said villain (again, hard to believe its anyone but surtur at this point) will have a role in the movie. But again, the synopsis can be decieving, so I understand that. But I think he will have a very strong presence in the movie, and the plot for the 3rd film may even be strongly hinted at, I also expect to hear him referred to by name in this movie. Again, I know synopsis can be hard to make out, but even this soundds like it will be slightly more than a mere presence to lead into a 3rd movie. I think he will be doing his own thing the entire movie, like you said. However I think he will probably be refered to by malekith, possibly even by name. Like I said, if he is the one to turn Algrim into Kurse, we may get a refference of him, or even see it happen. Who knows I Quote:
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#207 | |||
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On your synopsis, I am agreeing with the majority of it. Only thing I question is Hela/Surtur and Kurse, I think they'll appear probably but not sure at what capacity, and I think there is a lot of merit to the idea of the Beyonder/Cosmic Cube/Tesseract stuff winding up being mixed in with Jane and Selvig and their wormhole experiments. That could be a reason why Jane may be brought to Asgard, to try to get Odin to talk sense into her and to drop that as being too dangerous a power for Earth to have. Lots of foreshadowing of danger that she would ultimately ignore and pay the price. That would hit pretty hard if the possession stuff is true and she is transforms and Thor can't save her (at least in Thor 2), lots of drama potential there. And in movies creating drama is a good thing. ![]() Here is the synopsis for Thor 1 Quote:
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"Fights to restore order across the cosmos", which I believe is referring to fighting among the Vanir, Nornheim, Asgard and whatever other realms they want to work in there that are now fighting and jostling for power after the bifrost is destroyed and it looks like the Asgardians have lost control. This keeps the Asgardians busy for most of the film, which is why they don't come down to help Thor with the Dark Elves on Earth. "but an ancient race let by Malekith," now this makes me think that there may be some fight scenes prior to the Earth ones that they are filming now, that shows Thor defeating the Dark Elves (this could be where Alfheim comes into it, if they attack Alfheim or could be they attack Odin's palace and Frigga dies here) and Thor and co manage to slap them back down to Svartalheim, and maybe injures Malekith in the process, and this is why Malekith is vengeful and sets his eyes on Earth next if he knows that Thor cares about it somehow. This could also be the point where Surtur comes in and gives him a boost, as you suggest. ![]() Now the "faced with an enemy even Odin and Asgard cannot withstand" that bothers me, because that would seem to indicate Surtur will appear and kill Odin in this film. But, it might very well be simply foreshadowing Thor 3. I don't know. I have been thinking that both Odin and Frigga dying in Thor 2 is really too much. I think it's only going to be only one at this point. I also have questions about whether they would really do Ragnarok at all, especially at the end of Thor 2, (seems waaaaaay too early for that) however again this phrasing would seem to be foreshadowing it, but may be foreshadowing for the 3rd film. ![]() |
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#208 | |||
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Jon (Aqua) said:
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BTW, I think a lot of your synopsis makes sense. I am back to leaning toward Surtur in Thor 3, which would mean that the fight with Malekith is the big showdown. They can foreshadow Surtur and have a lot of room to do new story (or weave in another favorite bit) in Thor3 prior to the big showdown with Surtur. Of course, Thanos will be referenced, and may turn out to be behind some of the events of the film (such as the army) without him appearing in the film or acting directly. Elizah said: Quote:
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I have kind of mixed feelings about this angle. Jane is playing a role in the story that uses her abilities, so she's not just a love interest. That's a good thing. The idea of Odin trying to forbid Jane from conducting her research is rather condescending. Granted, that's not inconsistent with canon about Odin, but no one is scolding Erik, for example. Also, there are plenty of examples in history in which authorities can forestall, but cannot ultimately hold back, truth. Even if they succeed in talking Jane out of doing the research, someone else will. And I'm a little uneasy about the idea of Jane flaming out because of the malevolent spirit. I know you, Elizah, have seen this article; in case others have not, here is the link: http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2...ist-movie-yes/ The article remarks about how there are four strong female characters in the film (while Jane has her flaws (and Frigga's role was pared back too much), she is stronger than a lot of other female characters in cinema.) One of the points it makes is "Jane is never punished in the narrative for being a workaholic". This idea of the flameout kind of seems like the narrative is going to punish Jane for being a scientist (in a way that Erik, who has already been possessed and already opened a portal that lets a bunch of bad guys onto Midgard, has not been). But I'm also still puzzled as to how this possession thing fits into the rest of the story. There are aspects of it that don't make sense. In addition to the power level of the malevolent spirit, which I've mentioned before, here's another question. Why can't Odin successfully exorcise the malevolent spirit? Why does she need to tag along with Thor and Loki? There are some pieces missing. |
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#209 | |||
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#210 | |||
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![]() That's not to say you are not right about him being wrong (!) In any event, I agree; we don't really have a clear picture. Quote:
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#211 | ||
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#212 | ||
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<punished for their work--Elizah mentioned some villains who have met this fate>
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I posed the same question in person to someone more expert in comics than me. The Fantastic Four was the only case that they could think of. No cases among various supporting casts. I mentioned Banner (ie punished for his work, not for being a workaholic), to which the response was that that's true of movie-Banner, but for comics-Banner, it wasn't like that (he ran out onto the test range to save someone else who had wound up there). So apparently it's not without precedent, but rare. Regarding villains having depth, villains often are more interesting than heroes, because in general, villains act, whereas heroes react. |
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#213 | |||||||||
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[QUOTE]
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Here is the synopsis for Thor 1 Quote:
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crap, that wasn't in the synopsis. So idk, nevermind lol
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#214 | |||||
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The "major" new villain/antagonist (one and the same; Feige isn't talking about two different things here, just reiterating his previous sentence) has most likely not even been introduced into the plot synopsis/set descriptions we have so far....that much I'll agree with you about. But Surtur seems by and large the safest bet to fulfill that role, based on what we know of the Twilight Sword saga that this movie is clearly based on. Or maybe Chthon, if the theory that "The Other" is Chthon plays out. Quote:
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You can dislike it all you want, but the fact remains that Thanos and The Other ARE "Thor's world" now. Yes, it's not canonical to the comics, but the MCU has linked Thanos intimately with Loki, and the Mad Titan is now just as much a part of Thor's cinematic mythos as the Asgardians, Dark Elves, and the rest of them.
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#215 | ||||
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Cherokeesam.... let's agree to disagree and leave it at that, as I said above. I could argue with you about this until next November, believe me. I'd rather move on and agree to disagree at this point as I'm obviously not going to convince you of what's actually going on until you see it with your own eyes on the big screen. ![]() |
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#216 | |
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#217 |
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Just some pictures of interest with those going along with the Asgardians/Vanir/Nornheim idea about the fights in the Bourne woods. In spoiler buttons just because size of pictures.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Last edited by elizah72; 11-25-2012 at 09:44 AM. |
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#218 | |
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In such a context, the possession would be a fairly minor plot detail that perhaps the studio would not mind being leaked. (especially if it keeps the fans distracted for a while ![]() |
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#219 | |
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I just noticed this which may be of interest to the story...
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Also, one thing that's been bothering me about the armored helmeted dudes on the attack here, is such variation there. Some really look like they have the Viking influence with the horns, and others not so much (such as the red armor guys). I am wondering now if perhaps Malekith and the Dark Elves team up with the Vanir, to attack Asgard, starting with Nornheim (possibly to get their hands on the 3 Norns?), and so the Viking looking guys on horses are the Vanir, and the other odder looking armored guys are Dark Elves who must cover up completely due to not being able to be out in the sun without turning to stone/burning (as I proposed earlier, based on the myths). So the guy I was wondering about in the Kurse thread a while back, could actually wind up being Algrim in a full armor, as we were once considering. I still feel like I see an outline of a skull on his chest. ![]() Last edited by elizah72; 11-25-2012 at 09:38 AM. |
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#220 | |||
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To flesh it out: what is the Vanir's beef with Asgard? If they currently have trade pact, what does it benefit them by teaming up with the Dark Elves? (ie, what is their motivation?) Regarding the Norn, I have the impression that they are like oracles. They merely inform of what will come to pass. They don't directly control or influence events. So I'm not certain what the objective would be in capturing them. I agree that likely another attack is going on. Maybe this attack is to draw off the main army. |
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#221 | |
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This guy doesn't resemble kurse at all, unless he is algrim, but he just doesn't resemble him, I would figure they would atleast try to work the horns in. And the big thing. That design on his chest, I've seen it on other characters in this army. Other people who have similar armour on, have that design on the chest, so I think it is safe to say this probably isn't Kurse. I don't care how over the top he looks in the comics, I think designing him in the MCU exactly like he is in the comics (except have the colors be a bit darker) I think that would look awesome and fit right into this world
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#222 | ||||||
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Last edited by elizah72; 11-25-2012 at 11:53 AM. |
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#223 | |||
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<joke picture deleted> (Apologies for the tiny size; this is my first time uploading attachments. I may also be restricted by my relative junior status.) More seriously, from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking): "Viking helmets were conical, made from hard leather with wood and metallic reinforcement for regular troops. The iron helmet with mask and chain mail was for the chieftains, based on the previous Vendel-age helmets from central Sweden. The only true Viking helmet found is that from Gjermundbu in Norway. This helmet is made of iron and has been dated to the 10th century." Also from the Wikipedia page, an artist's depiction from not long after the Viking Age: Wikinger.jpg <I asked about the Vanir's motivation for attacking Asgard> Quote:
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#224 | |||
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http://library.thinkquest.org/C0118142/norsepan/warbtwav.php Quote:
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#225 | |
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