Arrow General Discussion Thread - Part 4

[Paradox1]

I agree count vertigo?! who gives a ****.

Edit: marvel isn't making movies about Ms.Marvel for the same reason DC isnt making one about Wonder Woman. A woman carrying a big budget action flick is something in the past that has been met with lukewarm results.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Paradox1

I agree count vertigo?! who gives a ****.

Then who gives a **** about Joker? Who gives a **** about Lex Luthor? Hell, who gives a **** about Bane and his venom usage? Why is it that only the big two should be treated with respect for the source material while fans are ashamed of the rest of DC? I don't like bringing up Marvel vs DC (Especially as a bigger DC fan) but it's easy to see why DC's other characters can't get off the ground with this kind of thinking. There's this implication that there's something embarassing and wrong with the rest of the DC universe that desperately needs changing and gives us crap like the new 52 and 500 different Crises so they can call a mulligan and have a do-over.

[Paradox1]

Your gonna go to bat for count vertigo really ?! A character who's not even a b grade villain known for giving people veritgo really? If vertigo was in Batmans rogue gallery he'd be equal to killer moth and who gives a **** about killer moth.

[Savage]

Vertigo is one of Arrow's top rogues. Right up there with Merlyn and, to some degree, Deathstroke. Vertigo HAS fought Batman and was actually a challenge for him. Vertigo even showed up in "Batman: The Animated Series" as well as "The Batman" and gave Batman a run for his money. Either you're having fun with me or you know jack squat about Count Vertigo and you're going by a synopsis of a wikipedia article. Vertigo is faaar from Killer Moth territory. Hell, Vertigo is far from Firefly territory. Just because a character isn't super popular doesn't mean he or she sucks. What does he need? Hot Topic merchandise?

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by Robin91939

This may have been answered in the past, or be coming out of left field....


But will Roy Harper make an appearance? Or are they combining both "Speedy"s and setting that mantle up for Thea and splitting it with her and Dig as the side kick?

I just think Roy would be a good fit -- and would like to see him properly re-imagined.

They know what their version of Roy is, but we don't know when they'll use him.

[HighFivingMF]

And on this changes thing, I don't give a **** if they change it or don't change it. The comics version is in the comics, the TV version is on TV, the movie version is in the movie. If they make a change I don't like, I don't think I'd get mad. I'd just not watch/read the thing. All I want is someone else's interpretation of something I enjoy to also be enjoyable to me.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

And on this changes thing, I don't give a **** if they change it or don't change it. The comics version is in the comics, the TV version is on TV, the movie version is in the movie. If they make a change I don't like, I don't think I'd get mad. I'd just not watch/read the thing. All I want is someone else's interpretation of something I enjoy is also enjoyable to me.

While I agree with this, I feel like a character should at least be recognizable. If you're going to go all out and change everything about the character, name them something else. Movie Bane is still recognizable as Bane. His origin and MO are still intact despite changes. This Vertigo is a drug dealer that happens to sell a drug that gives people vertigo. That description alone already makes me think "You know, you don't have to use preexisting characters, right? You're allowed to make up your own."

[mr. peasant]

Originally Posted by Savage

While I agree with this, I feel like a character should at least be recognizable. If you're going to go all out and change everything about the character, name them something else. Movie Bane is still recognizable as Bane. His origin and MO are still intact despite changes. This Vertigo is a drug dealer that happens to sell a drug that gives people vertigo. That description alone already makes me think "You know, you don't have to use preexisting characters, right? You're allowed to make up your own."

I agree that this version of Count Vertigo is something of a wasted opportunity. By virtue of him being a foreign aristocrat, one would have thought that it would be the perfect opportunity for the show to feature a villain who abuses his diplomatic immunity to get away with running some shady businesses; which would work really well given Arrow's tone, theme and plot.

In my opinion, Vertigo's superpowers really come secondary in terms of defining his identity and what makes him unique/memorable.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by mr. peasant

I agree that this version of Count Vertigo is something of a wasted opportunity. By virtue of him being a foreign aristocrat, one would have thought that it would be the perfect opportunity for the show to feature a villain who abuses his diplomatic immunity to get away with running some shady businesses; which would work really well given Arrow's tone, theme and plot.

In my opinion, Vertigo's superpowers really come secondary in terms of defining his identity.

EXACTLY! I'm thinking that maybe this will be the twist they throw in when Arrow tries to have him arrested. That would actually be pretty cool. My only issue with the powers is "How is he going to use this in a fight?" In other interpretations his vertigo powers result in Ollie having trouble aiming and losing his primary weapon against this guy. Here he'd pretty much have to roofy him unless the drug is in some kind of aerosol form, in which case the Scarecrow comparisons are valid.

[Paradox1]

Originally Posted by Savage

Vertigo is one of Arrow's top rogues. Right up there with Merlyn and, to some degree, Deathstroke. Vertigo HAS fought Batman and was actually a challenge for him. Vertigo even showed up in "Batman: The Animated Series" as well as "The Batman" and gave Batman a run for his money. Either you're having fun with me or you know jack squat about Count Vertigo and you're going by a synopsis of a wikipedia article. Vertigo is faaar from Killer Moth territory. Hell, Vertigo is far from Firefly territory. Just because a character isn't super popular doesn't mean he or she sucks. What does he need? Hot Topic merchandise?

I know less than jack squat about him. It's not about popularity per se but new takes on characters is not always a bad thing. Marvels comic Blade character is horrible but movie blade awesome so much so that marvels keeps trying to make them more a like. Till you actually see how they portray them on screen your doing yourself a disservice by assuming it's going to be bad.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Paradox1

I know less than jack squat about him. It's not about popularity per se but new takes on characters is not always a bad thing. Marvels comic Blade character is horrible but movie blade awesome so much so that marvels keeps trying to make them more a like. Till you actually see how they portray them on screen your doing yourself a disservice by assuming it's going to be bad.

Good point about Blade but Blade is still recognizable as Blade. What was changed about Blade? He was given a power boost, he used silver stakes instead of wood. That's it. The character was still there. He was still very angry, stoic, and streetwise. While I can't just assume that this version of Vertigo is going to suck, so far the news has not given me a good impression of where they are going with the character. I'm hoping he'll at least be a rich, high class foreign drug dealer with a royal bloodline (they don't have to come out and say this). Removing his powers is already throwing me for a loop.

[Human Torch]

Originally Posted by Savage

No, you're missing the point. What determines whether effort should be put into bringing a character to screen or not should not be determined by how angry the fans will get. When changes are made to Batman or Superman or any of their big time rogues, fans flip out. Adapting Superman and Batman is this big deal where writers are walking on egg shells. Everybody else in the DC universe seems to be fair game because of their lack of popularity and that's not a good way to approach it. Basically if WB had Marvel instead we'd probably never get Iron Man or Thor movies. If Disney had DC we'd probably be on our third Wonder Woman flick by now.

The fact that people go "It's Vertigo. Who cares?" and at the same time "Oh my god! Joker uses paint instead?!" is something that upsets me. Vertigo is a good character who should at least be recognizable and not be given the X-men 3 treatment (See Psylock and Calisto and countless others from that movie).

I'm not gonna pretend that I have an extensive knowledge of GA comics,but Vertigo is presumably one of his top 5 villains.Why water him down?After the Royal Flush Gang,I'm fearing these "good enough" adaptions of future villains.

[Deathstroke]

This is the only way to make Vertigo work within the realistic universe of the show. He had to be adapted and reinterpreted like many of the other characters on this show.

[Scarecrow_King]

He could still be an actual count. I like the idea of him having some sort of diplomatic immunity, which is why Oliver would target him. His whole motivation is taking down people that the law can't or doesn't. Nothing fits that bill better than somebody doing illegal things under the protection of diplomatic immunity.

[S. Grundy]

Vertigo as he is in the comic seems pretty easily adaptable, nothing about his back story could be construed as "unrealistic". It's really just confusing that they would bother saying that this is Count Vertigo, when there's nothing recognizable (not even his name is Werner Vertigo).

[Savage]

Originally Posted by S. Grundy

Vertigo as he is in the comic seems pretty easily adaptable, nothing about his back story could be construed as "unrealistic". It's really just confusing that they would bother saying that this is Count Vertigo, when there's nothing recognizable (not even his name is Werner Vertigo).

Precisely. Change the costume. That kinda sucks anyway. But the character himself isn't that farfetched. His powers could easily be tech based like they have been in his other adaptions. I'd be fine just seeing this guy in a suit and a dark green trenchcoat.

I know what's done is done and his version may be interesting in his own right. It's just annoying when writers always think these characters need these drastic changes to be any good. Blade wasn't even changed this drastically and he's a Marvel C lister.

[S. Grundy]

It's like they wanted to do Scarecrow, but since they aren't allowed to use Batman villains they went this route.

[mr. peasant]

Originally Posted by Savage

Precisely. Change the costume. That kinda sucks anyway. But the character himself isn't that farfetched. His powers could easily be tech based like they have been in his other adaptions. I'd be fine just seeing this guy in a suit and a dark green trenchcoat.

I know what's done is done and his version may be interesting in his own right. It's just annoying when writers always think these characters need these drastic changes to be any good. Blade wasn't even changed this drastically and he's a Marvel C lister.

Actually, I'd contend that you wouldn't even need his powers to make him feel like 'Count Vertigo'; just the title.

[Midnight Black]

Yes, he is the Scarecrow of Starling City...next.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by mr. peasant

Actually, I'd contend that you wouldn't even need his powers to make him feel like 'Count Vertigo'; just the title.

Would be kind of odd not to have something vertigo related to him though, considering his name.

[mr. peasant]

Originally Posted by Savage

Would be kind of odd not to have something vertigo related to him though, considering his name.

I do believe that's his actual name though - Count Werner Vertigo - and not a codename he took for himself. So, unless everyone in his family has the same ability (which they don't) it would have to had made sense in-universe.

[Savage]

True. Though it's one of those odd names I wouldn't mind changing or respelling (Like Victor Fries ironically becoming Mr. Freeze). I mean what are the odds of a guy with the last name Vertigo having similar powers? I think Count Vetigo has a pretty unique power and is one of Green Arrow's few super powered rogues so I can never see him without the power in some respect. A power that takes away Arrow's primary one is something that I like to see. Keeps him thinking on his feet.

Though, yes, Vertigo is interesting enough without his powers. I hope they keep the foreign royalty aspect.

[S. Grundy]

He's not really super-powered though, at least in the meta-gene way.

The victim of a hereditary inner ear defect that affected his balance, Vertigo had a small electronic device implanted in his right temple that compensated this problem. Tinkering with the device, Vertigo learned he was able to affect other people’s balance as well, distorting their perceptions so that they literally couldn't tell up from down, an effect known as vertigo.

Originally Posted by Savage

Would be kind of odd not to have something vertigo related to him though, considering his name.

They changed his name, so he's no longer Werner Vertigo.

[Midnight Black]

They should just make him Count Vertigo that sells drugs to club goers and makes them trip.

I don't want to see any super, meta, or technical powers on this show. I don't want Superman, Static, or Cyborg showing up.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by S. Grundy

He's not really super-powered though, at least in the meta-gene way.





They changed his name, so he's no longer Werner Vertigo.

I know. Was just speaking of a rhetorical situation were the character to be adapted exactly but without his powers. The version coming to the show is such a different entity that he might as well be another character entirely. I'm actually hoping a little that he's only working for Werner Vertigo who supplies the drugs or something.

The fact that his powers are tech-based in the books makes me confused about why he'd be considered so unrealistic. There are devices that cause vertigo purposely. I know the show wants to be realistic Count Vertigo is actually less far-fetched than Scarecrow.