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Old 11-25-2012, 10:31 PM   #326
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I'm glad the series won't go on. 3 films of the realism take was enough for me, and later directors likely would have followed Nolan's take for some time. I'm ready for a new style.
Even though nolan's is my favorite batman depiction to date, I agree. Also, Nolan's Batman just never felt (especially after TDK) like it should just continue and he meets all the rogue gallery. It always felt incredibly contained and like that Bruce would not want or be able to be Batman for an extended period.


Plus I really wanna see Clayface in a Batman film...

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Old 11-25-2012, 10:41 PM   #327
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

As much as I liked the 8 year gap, I think Nolan's Batman could have faced more of the rogues gallery due to further escalation caused by the Joker/Two-Face in TDK. Had it not been for the "Dent Act" freaks like Black Mask and Penguin, just to name a few, could have easily worked as the new wave of a freak oriented mob.

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:26 AM   #328
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

That's what makes the trilogy so unconventional. No one would have thought that there'd be a "peace time" such as how the Dent Act is conceived and what it has done with making Gotham City peaceful for eight years.

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Old 11-26-2012, 09:50 AM   #329
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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As much as I liked the 8 year gap, I think Nolan's Batman could have faced more of the rogues gallery due to further escalation caused by the Joker/Two-Face in TDK. Had it not been for the "Dent Act" freaks like Black Mask and Penguin, just to name a few, could have easily worked as the new wave of a freak oriented mob.
Yup. TDK made it look like that kind of thing was gonna come then Rises hops 8 years ahead, retires Batman and turned Gotham into a peaceful zone.

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Old 11-26-2012, 10:50 AM   #330
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How did TDK make it seem that were to happen?

It may have if Joker's plan came to fruition and the real face of Harvey Dent was shown which would bring in more freaks after Joker and after Two-Face, but Joker's final act came to a stall when Gordon and Batman decided to preserve the name of Harvey Dent.

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Old 11-26-2012, 02:49 PM   #331
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Take out Talia or make her reveal earlier in the film because if you think about it, it doesn't even make sense really.

They throw Bruce in the pit knowing he can't escape, or at least will die in the pit hence Bane's "Impossible" line and even Talia's shock when she sees Bruce later on.

So both Bane and Talia will off themselves with a nuclear bomb...knowing Bruce is either dead or still in the pit.......so when exactly would she have even revealed herself to be the child of Ra's to Bruce?

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Old 11-26-2012, 02:54 PM   #332
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Perhaps they plan to have another televised speech before the bomb goes off since Bane wanted Bruce to watch all of this on a television screen....or maybe they thought Bruce would have been smart enough to know that the child wasn't Bane who climbed out of the Pit. Bane was even surprised that Batman thought he was the child of Ra's that climbed out.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #333
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I'd have removed the 8 year exile. I don't mind the gap, but I think Bruce leaving the Bat behind was a terrible idea. This is supposed to be the man who is the Batman and Wayne is the facade. I wanted to see a Batman who'd been on the run while cleaning the streets. I hoped for references to other rouges he encountered during this time. Then we get the super clean Gotham of TDKR and we could have a Batman who was toying with the idea of normalcy before Bane shows up. I think it would have also made Bane seem even more threatening to take down a Batman at his peak versus the frail Bruce in the suit the first half portrays him as.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:06 PM   #334
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I think it would have also made Bane seem even more threatening to take down a Batman at his peak versus the frail Bruce in the suit the first half portrays him as.
I would love this as well, but we've never seen this. We've always had a tired Batman dealing with Bane in their first meeting besides Bane's first appearances in the cartoons.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:18 PM   #335
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But how would Bruce know that Ra's child was a girl? He didn't mention it in BB right? Didn't he only mention a wife? Also, would Bruce even connect Miranda to Talia? (if that even matters who Talia ended up being so long as he knew Ra's daughter was responsible)

I just don't think the reveal makes much sense. I like it, because it is cool to have Talia trying to finish her fathers work, but if they believed they were never going to see Bruce again and they were going to kill themselves in Gotham when would there ever have been a reveal? O well

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:22 PM   #336
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I don't think Talia revealing herself was ever really a part of their plan. She only did it when Bane was defeated and she absolutely had to.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:28 PM   #337
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But how would Bruce know that Ra's child was a girl? He didn't mention it in BB right? Didn't he only mention a wife? Also, would Bruce even connect Miranda to Talia? (if that even matters who Talia ended up being so long as he knew Ra's daughter was responsible)

I just don't think the reveal makes much sense. I like it, because it is cool to have Talia trying to finish her fathers work, but if they believed they were never going to see Bruce again and they were going to kill themselves in Gotham when would there ever have been a reveal? O well
If he kept asking questions to the prisoner, I think he would've found out. It would be quite laughable to know that that one drug-addicted doctor who took care of Talia and her mother when they were in prison never knew Talia was a girl, lol. Finding out Ra's had a child, who he knew was the mercenary from the story and finding out the child was a girl in the Pit...Bruce is a smart man and that's a simple 2+2=4 kind of thing.

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I don't think Talia revealing herself was ever really a part of their plan. She only did it when Bane was defeated and she absolutely had to.
You would think, at some point, it was going to be part of the plan though...no other reasoning for Talia to sleep with the enemy. And all that hurt that was shown when Talia did finally reveal herself. I always assumed it was part of the plan, but the timing of making the reveal in City Hall wasn't.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:43 PM   #338
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That's my point though, if she wasn't going to reveal herself to be Talia face to face, then what would the point even be? Even if Bruce did ask the doctor enough questions to find out that the child was in fact the daughter of Ra's and not Bane, he would still only have to assume she was also involved in the destruction of Gotham.

I only think that because Bane says he IS the LOS and then Bruce reminds him he was excommunicated, so Bruce could still be under the impression that the League wasn't directly involved and that it was the excommunicated Bane and his mercenaries.

I still do like the idea though.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:46 PM   #339
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

It wouldn't be assuming when Talia's name does have al Ghul in it. Thinking the legacy of al Ghul behind this would be enough to realize that, yes, Talia is behind this as much as Bane is, possibly even more.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:47 PM   #340
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Ah yet another illogical reason for Talia's inclusion.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:59 PM   #341
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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If he kept asking questions to the prisoner, I think he would've found out. It would be quite laughable to know that that one drug-addicted doctor who took care of Talia and her mother when they were in prison never knew Talia was a girl, lol. Finding out Ra's had a child, who he knew was the mercenary from the story and finding out the child was a girl in the Pit...Bruce is a smart man and that's a simple 2+2=4 kind of thing.



You would think, at some point, it was going to be part of the plan though...no other reasoning for Talia to sleep with the enemy. And all that hurt that was shown when Talia did finally reveal herself. I always assumed it was part of the plan, but the timing of making the reveal in City Hall wasn't.
Well, I think the other idea behind seducing him was to soften him up to be broken by Bane. She also tries to tempt him to fly away on her jet with her, and I'd imagine if he went for it they'd have taken him straight to the Pit.

But I agree, Bruce might have found out more in the prison if he kept digging.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:14 PM   #342
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Ah yet another illogical reason for Talia's inclusion.
Imo, Talia needed to be included in TDKR, but you'll disagree, so to each their own, lol.

There, I summed up what would've been a back and forth discussion between us

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:20 PM   #343
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That's assuming they knew her name was Talia i guess, maybe they did but didn't mention it because they feared Bane? Even so, the point of the reveal wasn't really that it was in fact a girl who was the child. Bruce was already under the impression that the child of Ra's was destroying Gotham, who he believed to be Bane. Finding out it was a girl, maybe eventually, doesn't change the fact that it was still the child of Ra's.

The key to the reveal is that it was actually Miranda, the woman he liked (maybe?), gave control to his company, and slept with. Sure, he maybe would have eventually figured out it was Miranda (if he wasn't dead yet), but even when she does reveal herself to be Talia Bruce looks so shocked that he can't even believe it.

Maybe Talia really didn't care to reveal herself to Bruce, maybe she did sleep with him just so she could try to convince him to come with her shortly after to take him to the pit herself? Maybe just knowing Bruce failed and she would kill Gotham was enough.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:21 PM   #344
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They knew the child's name, but if you re-watch TDKR, the doctor did tell the prisoner that 'This is Bane's prison now; he wouldn't want this story to be told.'

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:22 PM   #345
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Actually, maybe neither Talia or Bane thought Bruce would even find out that the child who escaped was the child of Ra's. Bruce only figured it out during an hallucination anyways if I remember correctly. He knew it was a mercenary, saw Ra's, and then heard the story and made the connection that the child was the child of Ra's. And the doctors do tell Bruce that Bane wouldn't want the story to be told, so maybe they didn't believe he would find out anyways? This, of course, is if I remember correctly.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:25 PM   #346
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I'd have removed the 8 year exile. I don't mind the gap, but I think Bruce leaving the Bat behind was a terrible idea. This is supposed to be the man who is the Batman and Wayne is the facade. I wanted to see a Batman who'd been on the run while cleaning the streets. I hoped for references to other rouges he encountered during this time. Then we get the super clean Gotham of TDKR and we could have a Batman who was toying with the idea of normalcy before Bane shows up. I think it would have also made Bane seem even more threatening to take down a Batman at his peak versus the frail Bruce in the suit the first half portrays him as.
I very much agree with this. I also think that the 8 year exile kind of ruins the epic ending of TDK, that ending was so powerful when I thought that he had finally become the embodiment of "The Dark Knight". Instead I find out he he just quit.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:28 PM   #347
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Actually, maybe neither Talia or Bane thought Bruce would even find out that the child who escaped was the child of Ra's. Bruce only figured it out during an hallucination anyways if I remember correctly. He knew it was a mercenary, saw Ra's, and then heard the story and made the connection that the child was the child of Ra's. And the doctors do tell Bruce that Bane wouldn't want the story to be told, so maybe they didn't believe he would find out anyways? This, of course, is if I remember correctly.
You have the events out of place. He heard the story, then saw the hallucination of Ra's, then heard more of the story.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:29 PM   #348
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I very much agree with this. I also think that the 8 year exile kind of ruins the epic ending of TDK, that ending was so powerful when I thought that he had finally become the embodiment of "The Dark Knight". Instead I find out he he just quit.
Quit because he and Gordon won with taking out the major crime that was drowning Gotham City.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:36 PM   #349
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I very much agree with this. I also think that the 8 year exile kind of ruins the epic ending of TDK, that ending was so powerful when I thought that he had finally become the embodiment of "The Dark Knight". Instead I find out he he just quit.
Its funny that you mention that. I asked a friend of mine, who doesn't really follow movies that much, if he saw TDKR. He couldn't remember at first, then he did remember he saw it, and said he must have missed the earlier movie where Batman was put out of commission so he had to retire..lol.
I saw TDKR about 4 times in theatres with different family members. None of who live in the "bat bubble" that I live in..lol. They dont' follow internet reports, read comics, or check out spypics. It was interesting as my wife figured out early on that Blake would be Robin, and my father and a friend of mine had both figured out early on that Miranda would be a surprise villain in the end.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:36 PM   #350
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Quit because he and Gordon won with taking out the major crime that was drowning Gotham City.
Yes, I can appreciate that, but that was a storytelling choice he didn't need to make. As much as I appreciate what Nolan has done for the franchise, I'll never like the fact that he essentially boils down Batman's career to a one year period then a brief return. That's basically taking the hero with the best rogues gallery in comics and crapping all over that.

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