Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfect?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

it seems, at least to me,

Exactly

[Anno_Domini]

Exactly? I say to me because of the dialogue we are given.

Alfred saying Bruce hasn't been in the Batcave in a long time, Batman telling Gordon Batman wasn't needed because they won, presumably referring to the Dent Act which wouldn't have gone to law for some time so Batman had to stick around...stopping Joker wouldn't make Batman and Gordon "win" at all as it's only as much of a win as stopping someone like Ra's al Ghul and Carmine Falcone in BB but the mob kept furthering its advances. Even with Ra's al Ghul's actions, it was basically about the mob as that's how Crane's drugs were being shipped anyways so they had to stop the mob to finally rid Gotham of real criminality...the Dent Act finally achieved this, thus, Bruce felt that Batman wasn't needed. Nothing shows me that Bruce believed they "won" just by stopping Joker.

[Ryan]

"It seems at least to me" that you had it right the first time.

[CGHulk]

Just lay there Bruce and get tied up. You could of easily kicked Talia in the face and pulled down the guy who was tying you up and knock him out! You can't handle a little stabbing to the ribcage? You've had worse Bruce! Yeah lets just lay there and let the bad guys have their way with me!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by CGHulk

Just lay there Bruce and get tied up. You could of easily kicked Talia in the face and pulled down the guy who was tying you up and knock him out! You can't handle a little stabbing to the ribcage? You've had worse Bruce! Yeah lets just lay there and let the bad guys have their way with me!

If you wait long enough I'm sure someone will give you a detailed reason why that all made perfect sense..lol

[TheBat812]

Do people think the Dent Act was enacted the day after his death? It probably took at least a year to get that **** written up, submitted, voted on, and actually enacted. Batman was likely active for a little while after his death before the amount of crime substantially dropped to the point where he'd just be brooding around the city with nothing to do.

[Lord]

Originally Posted by TheBat812

Do people think the Dent Act was enacted the day after his death? It probably took at least a year to get that **** written up, submitted, voted on, and actually enacted. Batman was likely active for a little while after his death before the amount of crime substantially dropped to the point where he'd just be brooding around the city with nothing to do.

Seems the most probable, 6 months to a year would be my guess

[MAKAVELI25]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Fox showed him the bat for old times sake...in other words, in case he wanted to get back into being batman obviously. Why even install the computers or the rising platforms? There is no actual timeline or reasoning for this stuff other then that Nolan wanted it that way. I could give as many reason why the cave could have been decked out as much as you can give reasons why it wasn't. The simple answer again is Nolan didn't do it, so it wasn't done. My simple answer is I hated it and found it completely unimaginative. I only compare TDKR to TDK and Begins and for me, it falls so far short, its not even funny. There were certain parts that reclaimed the magic, but overall, it fell rushed and more like a plan "B" film after Heath's death. Again, just my opinion and I have no more proof of that then anyone to contrary as its never been on the record by Nolan if Heath was to return. I'll gladly concede my feeling about that once I read it in print and I'd love to be wrong about it. TDKR is still better then Spidey 3 or whatever else, but I honestly could care less about those films as it was Nolan's films that really got me back into being a fan of Batman again. Guess I can't be too hard on Nolan. He gave me 2 amazing films. The third? Well, no one is perfect so I can cut him slack due to the respect he got from me for the first 2.

Completely agree with the first two, Nolan directed my two favorite movies. TDKR might not have been up to my expectations, but he has done great things for the franchise.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Ryan

"It seems at least to me" that you had it right the first time.

So you don't pay attention to the dialogue.

No wonder you didn't like TDKR

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by TheBat812

Do people think the Dent Act was enacted the day after his death? It probably took at least a year to get that **** written up, submitted, voted on, and actually enacted. Batman was likely active for a little while after his death before the amount of crime substantially dropped to the point where he'd just be brooding around the city with nothing to do.

Originally Posted by Lord

Seems the most probable, 6 months to a year would be my guess

Definitely. It baffles me that no one thinks of this. Batman said they won, and The Dark Knight's ending showed nothing of a majestic win from Batman and Gordon and can only be compared to stopping certain events as they did in Batman Begins with Ra's al Ghul and Carmine Falcone. Batman HAD to stay around until they could truly say they 'won' by enacting the Dent Act and that didn't take 24 hours to do, lol.

No more mob -> cleaner streets -> Batman wasn't needed in Bruce's mind

Next to the mob, Gotham City didn't have any big problems except for the League of Shadows, a crazed psychopath named Joker and a insane doctor named Jonathan Crane. And these were taken care of as well so they only had to take out the mob and that made Gotham City as peaceful as it was for eight years.

[CGHulk]

Originally Posted by Ryan

If you wait long enough I'm sure someone will give you a detailed reason why that all made perfect sense..lol

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by TheBat812

Do people think the Dent Act was enacted the day after his death? It probably took at least a year to get that **** written up, submitted, voted on, and actually enacted.

Blake said the men in Blackgate were locked up for 8 years and denied parole under the Dent Act.

The laws in Nolan's Batman world are not reflective of real life. The RICO case in TDK, and the whole kidnapping Lau from another country is another example.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

So you don't pay attention to the dialogue.

No wonder you didn't like TDKR

Just wasn't paying attention to yours :P

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by CGHulk

Just lay there Bruce and get tied up. You could of easily kicked Talia in the face and pulled down the guy who was tying you up and knock him out! You can't handle a little stabbing to the ribcage? You've had worse Bruce! Yeah lets just lay there and let the bad guys have their way with me!

What worse things have happened to Bruce though(especially in a batsuit that had more areas that he could get hurt as mentioned by Fox)? He was shot, yes, but he barely had enough strength to tackle Dent afterwards and his tiresome run back to the Bat-pod, I'm surprised he never just fell over and give the K-9s something new to chew on.

Originally Posted by Ryan

If you wait long enough I'm sure someone will give you a detailed reason why that all made perfect sense..lol

Some just understand the films better.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Blake said the men in Blackgate were locked up for 8 years and denied parole under the Dent Act.

The laws in Nolan's Batman world are not reflective of real life. The RICO case in TDK, and the whole kidnapping Lau from another country is another example.

So Blake wasn't able to just round off the years? Lol. Better than saying 'seven and a half years'. Plus, the lower-ranked mobsters Dent was able to send packing to jail during the events of TDK could've been accounted for under the Dent Act as well, so that's why Blake could have mentioned the eight years bit.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Just wasn't paying attention to yours :P

When one won't let someone help them understand what the dialogue could mean, one will never appreciate the film

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

So Blake wasn't able to just round off the years? Lol. Better than saying 'seven and a half years'.

That's hypothesizing. You can only go by what the movie tells you. We're told it's 8 years. Since they literally just had the Harvey Dent Day anniversary, which marked the night Dent died 8 years ago, then I'd say it is actually 8 years.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

That's hypothesizing. You can only go by what the movie tells you. We're told it's 8 years. Since they literally just had the Harvey Dent Day anniversary, which marked the night Dent died 8 years ago, then I'd say it is actually 8 years.

And the movie also tells us Bruce hasn't been in the Batcave in a while which wasn't even shown in TDK as well as Batman telling Gordon Batman wasn't needed and that they won, but the ending of TDK didn't feel like they really "won" anything and only won one battle just like in BB, but to each their own with how they view it.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

When one won't let someone help them understand what the dialogue could mean, one will never appreciate the film

Ha, I just dont' know what your talking about because I never read your post. Either way, it'll take more then some explaining the dialogue of TDKR for me to ever appreciate it. The damage has been done

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

but to each their own with how they view it.

Amen

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

And the movie also tells us Bruce hasn't been in the Batcave in a while which wasn't even shown in TDK

Yes, and what's the problem with that? Bruce was in the Batcave in that scene you quoted, but was he Batman then? No. So what makes you think the last time he was in the Batcave was not in a similar situation?

Why does he have to be Batman to have set foot in the Batcave? Batman Beyond had old retired Bruce go into his Batcave for nostalgic reasons. So did Bruce in The Dark Knight Returns.

as well as Batman telling Gordon Batman wasn't needed and that they won, but the ending of TDK didn't feel like they really "won" anything and only won one battle just like in BB, but to each their own with how they view it.

I'm confused by this statement. Are you saying TDKR made a contradiction to TDK's ending?

BB's ending had Gordon talking about escalation, the Arkham inmates and Crane still being free, and the arrival of a theatrical criminal who leaves Joker cards at his crimes. Clearly BB was saying the war was far from over.

How do you compare that to TDK's ending?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Some just understand the films better.

Oh I understand the film just fine. Still didn't make it any better. Maybe if I didn't understand it, I'd love it! :P

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yes, and what's the problem with that? Bruce was in the Batcave in that scene you quoted, but was he Batman then? No. So what makes you think the last time he was in the Batcave was not in a similar situation?

Why does he have to be Batman to have set foot in the Batcave? Batman Beyond had old retired Bruce go into his Batcave for nostalgic reasons. So did Bruce in The Dark Knight Returns.

While it may make you think the situation could possibly be similar before, I don't think that, lol. It would seem a bit odd for Bruce to just be at his computer doing just whatever(maybe it's his only way to search up porn without Alfred noticing ).

But speaking of nostalgia...what would be the nostalgia? Although, it would rather be nice to have seen him staring at his costume like Nite Owl II in Watchmen, I don't really think that would have happened, but as I said, it's a matter of how each of us view it. And obviously we view these differently.

I'm confused by this statement. Are you saying TDKR made a contradiction to TDK's ending?

BB's ending had Gordon talking about escalation, the Arkham inmates and Crane still being free, and the arrival of a theatrical criminal who leaves Joker cards at his crimes. Clearly BB was saying the war was far from over.

How do you compare that to TDK's ending?

I'm saying they "won" because of what the Dent Act did. Gordon acknowledged the Dent Act wasn't for nothing, but these two never "won" until the Dent Act was created. The ending of TDK, by no means, show that Batman and Gordon "won". That is the point I am making.

My comparison with BB is that in BB, they beat Ra's al Ghul, they beat Carmine Falcone...in TDK, they beat Joker and beat Maroni(although not technically Batman nor Gordon had anything to do with beating Maroni), but it wasn't a win that would guarantee Batman to not be needed anymore. That's why it seems like Batman did stick around until the point where Batman wasn't needed...until the Dent Act was created.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Ha, I just dont' know what your talking about because I never read your post. Either way, it'll take more then some explaining the dialogue of TDKR for me to ever appreciate it. The damage has been done

Originally Posted by Ryan

Oh I understand the film just fine. Still didn't make it any better. Maybe if I didn't understand it, I'd love it! :P

You already said even with explaining what you don't understand, you wouldn't have appreciated it, so why bother?

[solidsnake86]

Originally Posted by CGHulk

Just lay there Bruce and get tied up. You could of easily kicked Talia in the face and pulled down the guy who was tying you up and knock him out! You can't handle a little stabbing to the ribcage? You've had worse Bruce! Yeah lets just lay there and let the bad guys have their way with me!

You should have wrote the script if you're so smart. None of these superhero movies make sense if you start questioning everything the writers do. I completely understand if you dont like the film, its not everyone's cup of tea. But you're reaching with this comment.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

While it may make you think the situation could possibly be similar before, I don't think that, lol. It would seem a bit odd for Bruce to just be at his computer doing just whatever(maybe it's his only way to search up porn without Alfred noticing ).

I'm not saying he definitely was tracking a criminal like Selina, but lets face it is it unlikely he had not had a similar situation before? A break in at a millionaire's mansion? Or perhaps keeping up to speed on the events in Gotham. The cleaning up of the streets via the Dent Act. Who was being picked up and locked away. Keeping track of all the organized crime members going down.

There is many reasons why he could have been in that cave before without being Batman.

But speaking of nostalgia...what would be the nostalgia? Although, it would rather be nice to have seen him staring at his costume like Nite Owl II in Watchmen, I don't really think that would have happened, but as I said, it's a matter of how each of us view it. And obviously we view these differently.

Nostalgia in that he's mentally stuck in the past and can't move on. As Alfred said he just sits around living in the past (missing Rachel) and waiting for things to go bad again.

I'm saying they "won" because of what the Dent Act did. Gordon acknowledged the Dent Act wasn't for nothing, but these two never "won" until the Dent Act was created. The ending of TDK, by no means, show that Batman and Gordon "won". That is the point I am making.

But this brings us back to the whole point of when was the Dent Act created? You claim it couldn't have happened shortly after Dent's death. Well a dozen other legal related things that happened in Nolan's movies could never happen in real life either.

But we heard Blake say the inmates in Blackgate say they were locked up under the Dent Act for 8 years. Nolan also said the 8 year gap is representative of Batman's retirement;

Christopher Nolan: The end of ‘The Dark Knight’ left the characters in a pretty interesting place. Because we’re trying to make one unified story here, so it’s not another episode, another Batman episode, if you like. For me, that meant really trying to be true to where the characters were left. And Bruce Wayne, as Batman, has made a rather large sacrifice at the end of ’The Dark Knight.’ For that to mean something, he really has to have succeeded in a sense, in his mission. He has to have a Gotham that at least superficially doesn’t need Batman anymore. And that leaves him frozen. And the eight year period is about showing that he’s retired in a sense, that he’s hung up his cape and his cowl. But he hasn’t been able to move on, he’s stuck.

http://www.flicksandbits.com/2012/07...t-rises/28690/

My comparison with BB is that in BB, they beat Ra's al Ghul, they beat Carmine Falcone...in TDK, they beat Joker and beat Maroni(although not technically Batman nor Gordon had anything to do with beating Maroni), but it wasn't a win that would guarantee Batman to not be needed anymore.

It was a larger victory than that. Besides the Joker's capture and half of the city's criminals being locked up, between Joker and Two Face they had Maroni, Gambol, and the Chechen all murdered.

Joker had essentially taken over the underworld with plans to bring in a better class of criminal. Joker was caught.