Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

How is this example based on "confirmed information"....? She begins with a wild assumption about a character (Hela) who most definitely has NOT been confirmed --- or even rumored --- to be in this movie at all, and proceeds to pile wild assumption on wild assumption.

If we're just going to go around making wild stabs in the dark here, then I'm going on record as saying that the Bourne Woods battle is between Beta Ray Bill's army and a bunch of drunk Rock Trolls on a bender. Just because I say so.

Well, I probably did Eliza a bad turn by taking only a partial quote and thus likely taking her out of context. (Sorry, Elizah! )

What I was focusing on was how Eliza pointed out what specific people were wearing and cited that as support that "likely this scenario here that this is Nornheim vs Vanaheim or vs Niflheim and then Thor and the Asgardian soldiers step in." That is, she tied her idea of the scene to specific elements in the photo.

In general, it's more helpful to talk about what people should do than to talk about what they should not do. That was my intent.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Just to be clear I've since most definitely changed my mind about that being Hela's army. Although she has been rumored to be the Alice Krige role (along with other possibilities). So confirmed information is that Alice Krige will have a role, then speculating on what that role might be, is what that was about.

However, I do think actually opening one's eyes and looking closely at the pictures, and in particular who is fighting who, while not a perfect method IS helpful if you want to try to figure out what the story involves.

Krige says her role is almost unrecognizable; I suppose that could be true if she was wearing a canonical Hela mask. I suspect she's talking about prosthetics/heavy fx makeup, though --- I'm betting she's playing Volla, the old crone, running around prophesying Ragnarok and everyone's death and what-not.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Krige says her role is almost unrecognizable; I suppose that could be true if she was wearing a canonical Hela mask. I suspect she's talking about prosthetics/heavy fx makeup, though --- I'm betting she's playing Volla, the old crone, running around prophesying Ragnarok and everyone's death and what-not.

I think that's quite reasonable too.

[metaphysician]

*resists urge to give another 'definition of science' lecture*

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Krige says her role is almost unrecognizable; I suppose that could be true if she was wearing a canonical Hela mask. I suspect she's talking about prosthetics/heavy fx makeup, though --- I'm betting she's playing Volla, the old crone, running around prophesying Ragnarok and everyone's death and what-not.

I'm with ya

[elizah72]

I would think it would be a bit of a waste of Krige, but not out of the question.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I would think it would be a bit of a waste of Krige, but not out of the question.

I agree, but again, I feel like the "small role" part was stressed *shrugs*

so at the most, she will be a minor character

[LokiDionysos]

If Hela and most of Hel exists in the micro verse...then her role really is "small"

The lower realms enter into the negative side of things. Muspelheim is more like a physical hell and where Hela is currently trapped, in the lowest levels of reality, is sort of like a Hell that exists so far beneath the surface. Only souls/life energy goes there. Niffleheim still exists, but Hel's power is banished to the inside of reality, so that Hela can't escape. Surtur has basically been stopped once before and Hela's link to death and resurrection is what's bringing him back along with Malekith. The Vanir know something is up, that Ragnarok is approaching but are deceived into being on the wrong side of the war at first. They think someone else will start Ragnarok.

She's a mostly hidden force on the inside of existence, along with Surtur. Hiding in the shadows, until the line that divides the shadow side from physical existence is blurred, and merges the two sides together again...

They only exist in the twilight spaces between dimensions and times right now. Odin tried to trap them from all time and existence, but they're gathering energy through Malekith's partial connection to the dark side.

What if she's controlling the Old crone at one point of the story, and Jane, as well as finally Darcy? We wouldn't see much of Hela. And she's trying to bring Surtur back to life along with Malekith, except she's working from the bottom of the world tree, while Malekith starts from the top. Both are trying to initiate Ragnarok for Surtur because they've been promised to have their reign's expanded. She stays in the shadowy side of existence along with Surtur working from/gnawing at the roots of the world tree. Working through Midgard.

What if parts of Hel and Muspellheim no longer exist in the physical side of reality due to Odin's temporal vortex trapping Surtur and Hela in the negative, or dark side of existence. Malekith has partial access to all the dark sides of existence through the dark world, and the division along his face ties into this. He exists partially in a twilight between the dark side, and the physical side of existence. Malekith's looking to merge many realities and bring them back to physical existence through Stone Henge.
This helps make the future hard to predict, and like with the Mandarin every decision/point of impact counts. AIM already understands some of this by the end of IM3...


Malekith intends to unlock these forces that are trapped in the microverse/dark-matter/immaterial/anti-matter/negative side of reality.

If Hela is trapped in between dimensions and helping Surtur/Malekith complete twilight by collecting souls, then we may not see the actress playing her that much... This would be the only reason such powerful beings like Hela and Surtur have to work through Midguard and Jane Foster/ Seek out Malekith's help again... They've been trapped by a temporal vortex... A punishment briefly considered for Loki. This has all happened before in the past... Ragnarok always returns.

For the record, I think Fox is about to screw up time-travel. Marvel knows they have to do this slowly and make any time/timeline viewing/time travel different from what's going on in DoFP...

This is what Feige's recent talk about taking risks is about.

If some of these risks play out we'll see Pym trapping some of the masters of Evil in the negative Zone/prison 42 & some elements of civil war in Avengers 2.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by LokiDionysos

If Hela and most of Hel exists in the micro verse...then her role really is "small"

The lower realms enter into the negative side of things. Muspelheim is more like a physical hell and where Hela is currently trapped, in the lowest levels of reality, is sort of like a Hell that exists so far beneath the surface. Only souls/life energy goes there. Niffleheim still exists, but Hel's power is banished to the inside of reality, so that Hela can't escape. Surtur has basically been stopped once before and Hela's link to death and resurrection is what's bringing him back along with Malekith. The Vanir know something is up, that Ragnarok is approaching but are deceived into being on the wrong side of the war at first. They think someone else will start Ragnarok.

She's a mostly hidden force on the inside of existence, along with Surtur. Hiding in the shadows, until the line that divides the shadow side from physical existence is blurred, and merges the two sides together again...

They only exist in the twilight spaces between dimensions and times right now. Odin tried to trap them from all time and existence, but they're gathering energy through Malekith's partial connection to the dark side.

What if she's controlling the Old crone at one point of the story, and Jane, as well as finally Darcy? We wouldn't see much of Hela. And she's trying to bring Surtur back to life along with Malekith, except she's working from the bottom of the world tree, while Malekith starts from the top. Both are trying to initiate Ragnarok for Surtur because they've been promised to have their reign's expanded. She stays in the shadowy side of existence along with Surtur working from/gnawing at the roots of the world tree. Working through Midgard.

What if parts of Hel and Muspellheim no longer exist in the physical side of reality due to Odin's temporal vortex trapping Surtur and Hela in the negative, or dark side of existence. Malekith has partial access to all the dark sides of existence through the dark world, and the division along his face ties into this. He exists partially in a twilight between the dark side, and the physical side of existence. Malekith's looking to merge many realities and bring them back to physical existence through Stone Henge.
This helps make the future hard to predict, and like with the Mandarin every decision/point of impact counts. AIM already understands some of this by the end of IM3...


Malekith intends to unlock these forces that are trapped in the microverse/dark-matter/immaterial/anti-matter/negative side of reality.

If Hela is trapped in between dimensions and helping Surtur/Malekith complete twilight by collecting souls, then we may not see the actress playing her that much... This would be the only reason such powerful beings like Hela and Surtur have to work through Midguard and Jane Foster/ Seek out Malekith's help again... They've been trapped by a temporal vortex... A punishment briefly considered for Loki. This has all happened before in the past... Ragnarok always returns.

For the record, I think Fox is about to screw up time-travel. Marvel knows they have to do this slowly and make any time/timeline viewing/time travel different from what's going on in DoFP...

This is what Feige's recent talk about taking risks is about.

If some of these risks play out we'll see Pym trapping some of the masters of Evil in the negative Zone/prison 42 & some elements of civil war in Avengers 2.

where are you getting pym from.

If masters of evil will be in it, thanos is too. We KNOW thanos will be in it. It seems like the end of phase 1, all of phase 2, and phase 3 will revolve around thanos

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

It seems like the end of phase 1, all of phase 2, and phase 3 will revolve around thanos

Phase 3 as well?

I guess I had assumed they would dispense with Thanos in The Avengers 2. But I'm not really familiar with his stories, so maybe it would take longer.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Phase 3 as well?

I guess I had assumed they would dispense with Thanos in The Avengers 2. But I'm not really familiar with his stories, so maybe it would take longer.

Don't get us started on the "Thanos in Phase III?" argument....we've hashed that out pretty extensively in other threads.

[LokiDionysos]

@ Jaqua99 Pym would be the character holding the entire multi-verse and this timeline together... That's the thing, Days of Future Past wants to alter the future... Pym wants to save it, and preserve the timeline from further manipulation... The smallest character quickly gets an upgrade, his own new comic line that focuses on him discovering dimensions/the negative zone more, and adds even more importance to Pym's character when he comes into it. After Avengers 2 people will want to know more about Pym. Pym is the one doing most of the dimensional/ time-travel eventually... He time travels into Avengers 2 to fix the timeline, because if he's not there Thanos/Ultron win that battle... His past and future are tied to Ultron. Shield made many mistakes, only "some of them recent".

His movie being set in the 80's and the present, with a past Pym and a present Lang, is directly tied into it when time-travel actually comes into it.

It's a way to get all the masters, Thanos, and Ultron in Avengers 2. Some of the villains become heroes... thanks to some nano-technology introduced in IM3. There would be no actual time-travel until Avengers 2, explaining why so many characters show up. There's a lot of pieces, but I think I've connected some of it. The masters will be in Avengers 2, but there will be a debate over using the technology that eventually becomes Ultron to enslave and control some of the captured masters. Some of my theories bring Leader (Samuel Sterns aka Mr. Blue) back into this as the Leader of the Masters of Evil in the initial attack. But as Wardell hinted it may really be about setting up Ultron as part of the masters, in a short amount of time. In a way he's leading them, but more like enslaving them and forcing the captured villains to do his bidding along with Tony's suits and the Hulklings and Thorlings. Mr. Blue creates a powerful weapon from the Asgardian DNA and Hulk's DNA... AIM winds up with Thor's DNA in IM3. An Empire against Thanos is being set up in the timeline because some characters also know what Thanos is up to. It was to be Mandarin and Leader's Empire but forces from beyond time hijack their Empire, attempting to set up the age of Ultron in the film-verse. Interfering with Thanos's plans temporarily and enraging him. It starts a theme of some of the villains willingly working with the Heroes against Thanos. In Avengers 3 a couple returning villains, and many of the heroes introduced across all the movies will show up to stop Thanos. Including Warlock from GoTG, Magus, and a future Guardian of the Galaxy who comes out of Knowwhere (the base in between space and time of the 31st century Guardians who monitor time and protect the universe). The pilot who leaves Earth in GoTG leaves Earth in 1982, sort of like Vance in the comics, but it's not Vance.

Much of GoTG's alternate future in the 31st century may come into this in an altered way, but the focus would be on the 21st century. This pilot leaving Earth in 1982 affects everything.

Dates and events are occurring out of sequence, later in time, things are changed, no martians only masters, mutant stuff left out or probably changed entirely. But some of what Ultron and Thanos are doing affects the 31st century. Shield being involved with sending this astronaut into space connects everything together. When they did that they stepped into the future, it leads to a path where the GoTG are formed. Because of their present existence, the 31st century Guardians exist and are very worried about this timeline. They only contact one of the 21st century Guardians at first.

"Even the 31st Century needs heroes, and the call has been answered by the Guardians of the Galaxy, a team of superhuman and extraterrestrial adventurers dedicated to the safeguarding of the Milky Way Galaxy from any force that threatens the security or liberty of its various people. The alternate future of the Guardians began with many changes from Earth-616 starting in 1982. When Earth's environment collapsed, an American astronaut, Vance Astrovik (Vance Astro), embarked upon the first manned space flight to another star system. Also, in the 90's, Bionic Wars ignited among the growing cybernetic population of Earth, culminating in a nuclear attack on western Canada. In 1995, the Confederation of Nations was established, uniting mankind in a global society. However, anti-mutant prejudice remained strong, prompting Earth’s mutants to relocate to Jupiter’s moon of Europa.
The most significant moment occurred in 2001, when Martians invaded Earth, decimating and enslaving humanity. For years, the Martians ruled Earth, before mysteriously abandoning the planet in 2075. Afterwards, Earth was ruled by “Techno-Barons” in various warring city-states. By 2525, the last of these Barons were dethroned, enabling Earth to create a World Federation by 2553. Over the course of the next century, Earth colonized the other planets of the solar system, genetically engineering each specific populace to withstand the environment of each colony, many of which were specialized outposts-- Pluto became Earth’s manufacturing colony, Mercury was a mining colony, Jupiter housed scientific expeditions, etc. Earth began a new golden age of scientific and social advancement."

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/universe/Guardians...#ixzz2DUUTVW4u

A certain version of a certain explosion may occur in IM3, where tapping into an energy source was the goal. Radioactive Man is there but not a villain, someone else wandered into the blast site. An unexpected character could cameo in CA2 who wants to help Shield make AIM/Zemo pay a Penance. Then gets imprisoned for his form of justice. His powers in CA2 lead to the brief creation and then disappearance of Wonderman... This is all setting up a slightly altered form of the Vision and I also believe Miss Marvel will play a role eventually. One of the Vision's powers:

Density Control: The Vision's body has been saturated with special cybernetically activated cells which are capable of interfacing with some unknown dimension with which he can shunt or accrue particles of mass. Thus the Vision is able to control his density and solidity. By shunting a non-critical portion of his body's molecules away from him, he can become a weightless, transparent, intangible wraith, unable to be touched by solid matter. By accruing extradimensional mass and fortifying his body with it, he can make his body extremely hard and durable to the point that missiles will not harm him. Vision/Ultron could be the true Villain of much of Avengers 2...The Vision and Ultron are the wildcards that change the future for Thanos. Vision's superhuman computer mind allows him to access the timeline viewer device in a way that no other character can, and allows him to form an accurate Vision of the future. He understands that he has to rebel against Ultron and the Masters and join the Avengers. Janet and Pym arrive just as suddenly as Ultron and Vision and fill us in on some of what's happening, how Ultron has skipped across time.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Some of what Bendis is saying about the single biggest event in the history of Marvel is true, and may be represented on film because of how that affects the entire marvel universe/multi-verse... Not a direct copy of what Bendis is planning but tied into the Age of Ultron stuff that's comes out in March, because elements will show up on film, mixed with 616 and Ultimates influences. "A total of six people in the company know the secret at the end of Age of Ultron." I'm definitely not one of those people, but I think those people may actually like what Bendis has planned for Ultron. A single event constrained to itself, that's in the vein of IG, but allows for all the other big events to occur because it exploits them and speeds them all along...

[mkilban2]

love the crazy speculation, but it's all just such a HUGE stretch panning out the next like 3-4 years into the future when then first movie to start things going doesnt come out for like 5 months and this one doesnt come out for like a year.

I know you said you have some kind of inside information or sat in some planning sessions (I can't recall exactly what) but from what I can take that you know is that the MCU is planning some sort of time travel in these next 3-4 films and you're just throwing in examples to make sense about it. I know you can't come out and say what you know exactly but from what I've read from you its:

-Thanos has some way of seeing the future/The Other is Kang and trying to get the upper hand
-Pym will time travel to now (don't know where you get that from though lol).. and I read you said he's actually Selvig in disguise or something
- AIM has tech that can see parts of the future but can't figure it out and Jane acquires it, hence Maleketh's plan or something
- and other varies theories about Dr. Stange, Adam Warlock, Magnus and other guys I don't even know haha

I mean the speculation is great and all, but maybe tone it down since we have literally zero information on any of this. I know you say you know things but if you arent going to come out and tell us I don't think it's worth writing 1000 word posts trying to come up with stuff.. idk haha but keep em coming I guess

/rant

[herolee10]

You know, with all of the talk that we've had about how Powerful Odin is and who should vanquish him, one thing that I'm trying to work my head around is whether the MCU's version of Odin is really all that powerful.

I mean, based on what we saw in Thor, he was given a few physical blows from fighting with Laufey; even lost one of his eyes as a result, before he ultimately defeated him.

Yet Loki was able to kill Laufey with just two blows from Odin's staff. So if someone like Laufey could give Odin so much trouble in his prime, then what's to say that he is all that powerful in the MCU?

[mkilban2]

Originally Posted by herolee10

You know, with all of the talk that we've had about how Powerful Odin is and who should vanquish him, one thing that I'm trying to work my head around is whether the MCU's version of Odin is really all that powerful.

I mean, based on what we saw in Thor, he was given a few physical blows from fighting with Laufey; even lost one of his eyes as a result, before he ultimately defeated him.

Yet Loki was able to kill Laufey with just two blows from Odin's staff. So if someone like Laufey could give Odin so much trouble in his prime, then what's to say that he is all that powerful in the MCU?

I don't really think he is, I think he's there more as a figurehead to Thor rather than a fighter. More as an older man who people look up to rather than a great warrior.

I'm actually 100% okay with that though, probably because I've never read comics so my views come from what I've seen in the movies so far. I don't get upset when things don't work out exactly as they were in the books and then once I've seen them on the screen or read about them online I do some research into the subject. But I'm all for things being different than the comics, I mean even though they are movies based directly off comics, I think the general public's view of what happens and their reactions is much more important than the die hard comic book reader.

Basically I'm trying to say that to most people here or on CBM and other sites like these, Odin being less powerful or Thor not living up to comic book hype in feats of strength or whatever doesnt matter to 95% of the people seeing the movie, so even though 99% on this site will get mad about it. If they don't have prior knowledge of Odin being this super powerfull All-Father dude, they just see him as Thor's old ass dad who's probably going to die soon and everyone watching is okay with it.

Edit: which for the record in my opinion sucks, because even though I havent read comics I've done a fair amount of research on all these characters after falling in love with the MCU and shows like AEMH but I guess I'm always open to changes.

[LokiDionysos]

Originally Posted by mkilban2

love the crazy speculation, but it's all just such a HUGE stretch panning out the next like 3-4 years into the future when then first movie to start things going doesnt come out for like 5 months and this one doesnt come out for like a year.

I know you said you have some kind of inside information or sat in some planning sessions (I can't recall exactly what) but from what I can take that you know is that the MCU is planning some sort of time travel in these next 3-4 films and you're just throwing in examples to make sense about it. I know you can't come out and say what you know exactly but from what I've read from you its:

-Thanos has some way of seeing the future/The Other is Kang and trying to get the upper hand
-Pym will time travel to now (don't know where you get that from though lol).. and I read you said he's actually Selvig in disguise or something
- AIM has tech that can see parts of the future but can't figure it out and Jane acquires it, hence Maleketh's plan or something
- and other varies theories about Dr. Stange, Adam Warlock, Magnus and other guys I don't even know haha

I mean the speculation is great and all, but maybe tone it down since we have literally zero information on any of this. I know you say you know things but if you arent going to come out and tell us I don't think it's worth writing 1000 word posts trying to come up with stuff.. idk haha but keep em coming I guess

/rant

Lol sorry, I'll try to limit my speculation and keep it to the other thread after this last one. But I am mainly trying to connect to things that I think could happen in this movie. Stuff like the Vanir predicting the future, and some of what the Asgardians know about Ragnarok approaching at the end. What I'm saying about Age of Ultron is where a lot of my information that I expanded on came from, but I have no clue what the secret at the end will be. If my theories are correct etc., however Ultron may play a significant role in the future. Pym and Janet would name Vision and Ultron like in the comics.
Pym and Janet are important to Age of Ultron, because of their connections to the characters, and we know they have to be in this series at some point... Whedon had already expressed his desire to have Janet in Avengers, but things have to be just wright with her portrayal across time... Edgar Wright's movie may take place in the 80's, not the 60's like I was mistakenly predicting before. How Janet and Pym get to the present, and why Lang's there is the fun part that means Selvig could be an older version of Pym, who has his own identity problems.

I do believe, however, that Feige is privy to this information at the end of the Age of Ultron, since Marvel studios has the backing of Marvel comics. We could see some of this if it really is the biggest event in Marvel history. This means we could also see almost everything that we would ever want to see in the number of movies they're limited to. They know the importance of sticking to the source material, but like Feige said we can't figure out where everything will fit in... because things are occurring differently. Out of order. Certain things are being combined. Mandarin's powers may be from Atlantis/Lemuria, but he's still an archaeologist who finds the rings buried in another country. Mandarin's backstory will play into this and that's what I won't speculate much on along with Thanos. The rings are still the source of his power. Studying time and space, and focusing on past cultures and Empires to predict the future. The person who controls the past, controls the future.

Marvel knows if they follow some of the source material in altered ways it will still pay off, because almost every major Avengers related event/character will be represented in some way on screen.
Every single thing you would never expect Fox to put up on screen or be able to pull off...

We're talking negative zone, the explosion that creates Penance(speedball), Ultron/Vision, The Masters, Ragnarok, Thanos and IG, Elements of civil war, Planet Hulk, Atlantis, Inhumans, the history of Titan, eventually Wakanda somewhere. Even Loki causing Hulk to turn against the team/forming the team has already happened. Major places/things from the comics will show up in big ways. Major events from the overall timeline are taking place in a relatively short amount of time/movies. But the risks may pay off. Feige, like him or not, understands the source material more than anyone over at Fox. And Whedon's at the helm. They won't use all Bendis's ideas for Age of Ultron but may touch them.
DoFP might be a cheap way to fix mistakes and reboot X-men, this would be completely different. A much bigger risk, with much bigger payoffs.
We would see how Pym time-travels, and his origin movie only after time-travel becomes a part of Avengers 2. Allowing his movie to occur out of order with the timeline... Pym, Ultron, Vision, and Red Skull all travel from another time/dimension into Avengers 2 in my theory. Ultron has already taken Pym out of the timeline because him and Wasp are pests to its plan, but we don't find out about Immortus until the end of Ant Man.

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by mkilban2

love the crazy speculation, but it's all just such a HUGE stretch panning out the next like 3-4 years into the future when then first movie to start things going doesnt come out for like 5 months and this one doesnt come out for like a year.

The amount of crazy speculation in those novel length posts are just that...crazy.... More of what they would WANT to happen more than what they THINK will happen. Half of the speculation would be terrible for the movie if true IMO...

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by herolee10

You know, with all of the talk that we've had about how Powerful Odin is and who should vanquish him, one thing that I'm trying to work my head around is whether the MCU's version of Odin is really all that powerful.

I mean, based on what we saw in Thor, he was given a few physical blows from fighting with Laufey; even lost one of his eyes as a result, before he ultimately defeated him.

Yet Loki was able to kill Laufey with just two blows from Odin's staff. So if someone like Laufey could give Odin so much trouble in his prime, then what's to say that he is all that powerful in the MCU?

In a deleted scene Loki called Odin one of the most powerful beings in the universe... maybe Mavel tried to tone it down by deleting that.

[mkilban2]

@Loki

yeah I know what you mean trying to tie everything together, and I think I remember reading that the whole Marvel NOW stuff they're doing is only including for the most part characters that they're trying to get into the public eye and put in the movieverse. I do have the feeling they're going to lead to Ultron, which was my favorite part in A:EMH so I'd be glad to see that come to real life, but I don't think we'll get any inclination of that for at least a year or two haha.

I just think the whole time travel stuff is a little too much, I could see it being added a tiny bit in maybe one scenario of sorts but not on such a grand scale that you've specualted. I think those things work better in the books but don't translate to movies.

Each movie coming up is going to give us little hints at what's in store in the future. I'm sure some tidbit in IM3 from AIM or Tony himself discovering something will lead into Thor:TDW, where something more will be shown which will either point at GotG or something SHIELD works with in CA:TWS then onto the Avengers2, but I don't think we'll even have a remote clear picture of what's in store until Avengers2.

Look at Phase 1, each movie worked in little pieces towards Avengers, IM1 showed SHIELD, Hulk really only showed that SHIELD had some sort of knowledge of superhuman things, Thor introduced us to Loki, and Cap finally brought in the Tesserect. But even with all those items no one would have been able to predict the plot point of the Avengers even after all those movies were out. And I feel it's going to be the exact same way with Avengers2.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by mkilban2

I don't really think he is, I think he's there more as a figurehead to Thor rather than a fighter. More as an older man who people look up to rather than a great warrior.

I'm actually 100% okay with that though, probably because I've never read comics so my views come from what I've seen in the movies so far. I don't get upset when things don't work out exactly as they were in the books and then once I've seen them on the screen or read about them online I do some research into the subject. But I'm all for things being different than the comics, I mean even though they are movies based directly off comics, I think the general public's view of what happens and their reactions is much more important than the die hard comic book reader.

Basically I'm trying to say that to most people here or on CBM and other sites like these, Odin being less powerful or Thor not living up to comic book hype in feats of strength or whatever doesnt matter to 95% of the people seeing the movie, so even though 99% on this site will get mad about it. If they don't have prior knowledge of Odin being this super powerfull All-Father dude, they just see him as Thor's old ass dad who's probably going to die soon and everyone watching is okay with it.

Edit: which for the record in my opinion sucks, because even though I havent read comics I've done a fair amount of research on all these characters after falling in love with the MCU and shows like AEMH but I guess I'm always open to changes.

Yeah, I think the bottom line on Movie Odin is that he's just a supporting character, and the general audiences (of any age, really) already see the writing on the wall --- that he's an old king who's going to die soon and Thor will inherit his throne. Or reject/lose his throne, as the case may be.

This is Thor's franchise, not Odin's.

[LokiDionysos]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

The amount of crazy speculation in those novel length posts are just that...crazy.... More of what they would WANT to happen more than what they THINK will happen. Half of the speculation would be terrible for the movie if true IMO...

Some of this I know will happen... I'm just not clarifying which parts. I'm very talented at predicting the future. That's the only reason I've attempted to lay some of it out and connect other random things to it to hide the parts that are almost certainly true. What I'm certain of is Ragnarok is approaching. Hela may or may not be involved in that but Surtur is coming. There's too much evidence to ignore. You need to look at the past, the source material, the current situations, the surrounding context, and all the evidence to understand where I'm going. You need to understand that yes I only have one small piece of the puzzle and could have some stuff wrong. But I'm trying to come from a position that the stuntman doesn't have access to and explore some of his comments about the timeline stuff in this movie. The Prime Meridian being associated with time, where the movie's filmed, and the mystic/ancient properties of Stone Henge are clues that make me more certain much of this series will all tie nicely together in the end.
I sort of do this for a living: investigate things, sort through clues--but my trick and the reason my screenname is Loki is that I don't like being right sometimes and conceal the truth, drunkenly posting things like an alternate French spelling of another mythological character. I'm sort of a combination of the two. And Feige is right things are happening different from the comics, so it's hard to predict. But I allow that to play into my theories.

[mkilban2]

Originally Posted by LokiDionysos

Some of this I know will happen... I'm just not clarifying which parts. I'm very talented at predicting the future. That's the only reason I've attempted to lay some of it out and connect other random things to it to hide the parts that are almost certainly true. What I'm certain of is Ragnarok is approaching. Hela may or may not be involved in that but Surtur is coming. There's too much evidence to ignore. You need to look at the past, the source material, the current situations, the surrounding context, and all the evidence to understand where I'm going. You need to understand that yes I only have one small piece of the puzzle and could have some stuff wrong. But I'm trying to come from a position that the stuntman doesn't have access to and explore some of his comments about the timeline stuff in this movie. The Prime Meridian being associated with time, where the movie's filmed, and the mystic/ancient properties of Stone Henge are clues that make me more certain much of this series will all tie nicely together in the end.

Could you PM me if you get a chance Loki, I want to ask you a couple questions haha

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by herolee10

You know, with all of the talk that we've had about how Powerful Odin is and who should vanquish him, one thing that I'm trying to work my head around is whether the MCU's version of Odin is really all that powerful.

I mean, based on what we saw in Thor, he was given a few physical blows from fighting with Laufey; even lost one of his eyes as a result, before he ultimately defeated him.

Yet Loki was able to kill Laufey with just two blows from Odin's staff. So if someone like Laufey could give Odin so much trouble in his prime, then what's to say that he is all that powerful in the MCU?

I agree I don't think any of the characters are nearly as powerful as they are in the comics, from what I have seen. Loki's hardly shown us what he can do with magic at all, Thor isn't as powerful. Of course they can't make characters too powerful either, otherwise it's not believable that they'd be challenged by anything.

Look at Phase 1, each movie worked in little pieces towards Avengers, IM1 showed SHIELD, Hulk really only showed that SHIELD had some sort of knowledge of superhuman things, Thor introduced us to Loki, and Cap finally brought in the Tesserect. But even with all those items no one would have been able to predict the plot point of the Avengers even after all those movies were out. And I feel it's going to be the exact same way with Avengers2.

Yes, and even for Thor 2, in the Plots thread I'm making a lot of guesses based on what I think would work with what we know for sure and what I think would work in the film, with the tone of the film that is being hinted at, and that would make an interesting film. But I am first to admit I won't be 100% right about all of it!

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Yeah, I think the bottom line on Movie Odin is that he's just a supporting character, and the general audiences (of any age, really) already see the writing on the wall --- that he's an old king who's going to die soon and Thor will inherit his throne. Or reject/lose his throne, as the case may be.

This is Thor's franchise, not Odin's.

I just want to see Odin do something badass in this movie , But it looks like anthony only shot a couple of scenes with Chris and and... Chris...

[American Maid]

Regarding how powerful Odin is, having him less powerful would solve a difficulty for the writers, namely, how can the bad guys advance the plot such that a) Thor is needed to fix things and b) it takes longer than, say, 5 minutes to resolve. If Odin is powerful enough, neither of these items can be guaranteed and then we don't have a movie.

But I can also understand how fans would be disappointed to not see Odin wield the power of which the books have shown him capable.