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Old 11-27-2012, 10:45 AM   #251
elizah72
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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Originally Posted by American Maid View Post
<What Thor's hair length might imply about the time-ordering of various scenes in the film.>

That's an interesting idea. That would be really exciting to start out the film with a big fight. I was going to express the reservation that big fights tend to come at the end, and this looks like a big fight. But maybe they'll have something even bigger at the end
well the Frost giant battle was pretty big at the beginning of Thor 1.

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Naturally, Jane would want to continue doing sciencey stuff. But Asgard might be a great place to do that. Think of it: she could conduct measurements from another corner of the universe that, to the best of anyone's knowledge, no other human has had access to! (And can you see Thor trying to sell her on the idea of going to Asgard with that angle? hee hee)
or here's another thought, the Asgardian's decide they want Erik to come up to Asgard, due to his heavy exposure to the Tesseract, and the possibility of developing that technology more (since they don't trust Loki to do it), and Jane, possibly even Darcy, come along with him. ? That could work.

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I like this idea! Also, there is a storyline in the books as I recall in which Balder was hidden among the Asgardian aristocracy and not told of his heritage in the hopes that it would prevent his death and the Ragnarok. (It may be the same storyline I referenced above). So maybe they are swiping a few elements from Balder's story to graft onto Loki's. Now *that* would be a surprise for the audience!
Yup. That could also work. I always get the impression from the Loki-Odin confrontation scene that Odin is still holding something back, and again he says nothing about Loki's mother as well, so that is definitely left up in the air in the MCU anyway. This line of thinking adds so much weight to the last scene with Odin where he is standing away from the party pondering what went wrong, if he should have told him the truth, and perhaps using his powers to search for Loki, if he's still alive, if Ragnarok is sure to come now, and if he should have let the child die on Jotunheim all those years ago.

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I for one will be better able to participate in the Thor2 part of the dialogue. I have been focusing on coming up to speed on Thor's world, and I haven't had much time to read about characters in the other parts of the Marvel universe.
me as well...

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Old 11-27-2012, 11:08 AM   #252
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<why Jane?>


Well, the on-line script has the line "don't tell me it was a woman" (indefinite article). However, Hiddleston does deliver it as "don't tell me it was that woman" (definite article). I had always thought that was a bit of a stretch for him to know about Jane specifically. I liked it better that he just made an educated guess and was able to needle Thor about it.
I have the impression in the destroyer scenes intercut with Loki that Loki was controlling it and could therefore see what was going on down on earth, and so could see when Jane came running over to grieve over Thor. Loki can definitely see and hear Thor when he says how sorry he is and to take his life and end it, leave these people alone.


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Loki wouldn't need to have a scene with Malekith necessarily, if you are willing to have him meet the big bad(s) of Thor2 while he was in the abyss before The Avengers. And then someone tells Malekith. Basically, you'd have to suppose all the baddies gossip about Thor lol.
By the watercooler? LOL

yes that's a possibility, that he could have met with any of them during that time.

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But that leads to another loose end: if it's Erik's connection that's the draw, why not target Erik? But it sounds like you (LokiDionysos) are allowing for Erik to be targeted too. (Although people might say, "Erik has been possessed *again*?")
I don't think necessarily possessed, but he's been heavily exposed to it and probably has gained a lot of knowledge due to that, so he would be more valuable to other worlds wishing to wield that power than Jane would be, I think. But then Jane and Darcy just get tangled up in that.

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Another random thought concerning portals: I have been thinking about the power requirements for portals. They needed Stark Tower's energy source to stabilize the portal in The Avengers. The power restriction might be one limit on the Midgardians jumping all around the universe. I wonder if Jane & Co. might use Stonehenge to open their portal. Maybe it already has connections to significant (magical) energy sources.
maybe but I believe there were at least 2 "Celtic" musicians involved in the Stonehendge filming (listed on IMDB also one of them had tweeted about the filming, as I recall), plus another RUMOR of a naked guy running around during that filming so... that doesn't sound so much like Jane's cup of tea Plus I think she filming something elsewhere at that time.

It's my guess currently that Stonehenge might have been used and redressed a bit to show Alfheim or another world. and maybe the Celtic musicians giving a bit of that Celtic flavor to them and the similarities with Stonehenge will just make us all wonder where Stonehendge may have come from (in the MCU anyway) I haven't worked out why or how that'll all work into the story as a whole yet though. Another possibility is it's some kind of flashback to the Druids for some reason but again no idea how to fit that in with everything else at this time.

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Old 11-27-2012, 11:09 AM   #253
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<why Jane?>

Okay. Well, as Elizah points out, I prefer a scenario where it's her research that gets her embroiled, as that is less cliche. And I had figured Erik's exposure to the Tesseract would help the portal research once they were able to work together again.

But that leads to another loose end: if it's Erik's connection that's the draw, why not target Erik? But it sounds like you (LokiDionysos) are allowing for Erik to be targeted too. (Although people might say, "Erik has been possessed *again*?")

Another random thought concerning portals: I have been thinking about the power requirements for portals. They needed Stark Tower's energy source to stabilize the portal in The Avengers. The power restriction might be one limit on the Midgardians jumping all around the universe. I wonder if Jane & Co. might use Stonehenge to open their portal. Maybe it already has connections to significant (magical) energy sources.
That's what I'm thinking in regards to StoneHenge. The entire area around the Prime Miridian is a sort of weak point in the space-time continuum, especially Avalon a little further (Thanks to Magus and H.E.) Pretty much the only place in Yggdrasil that Hela and Surtur can cross back into the higher realms. This is Malekith's main goal, and the wars in the higher realms are a distraction keeping the Asgardians busy. The Vanir realize this too late, but are forced to make a truce just in time.

So what I mean by Jane gets drawn into it in more ways than one is that they start to understand that stone henge is a nexus point too, and their paths end up crossing with the villains. It's a great convenience for Malekith/Hela to use them in that area because their knowledge could lead to them stopping him. He basically uses them to continue feeding souls to Surtur/Hela until he arrives. Completing twilight in an in-between twilight zone. Between the physical and spiritual worlds, trapped in a temporal vortex. It's not that Malekith and co. need them. They're targeted too and kept busy for a while in my theory. It's that their research may be leading them to stop Malekith's plan in its tracks, because of what Selvig comes to understand of the future. Malekith sees them as a short-cut instead of a hindrance, but the technology they're working on could be either.

Selvig now believes in the end of the universe/Yggdrasil.. and starts seeing flashes of Ragnarok fast approaching. His understanding of the myth allows him to take it seriously now that he knows Thor is real (He knows that if Ragnarok goes forward it could mean the end of Midguard too, but they've only delayed it by the end of the movie). The future can change, there's not only one possibility... Every choice creates an alternate universe of possibilities throughout the story and the Vanir can also predict the future to a degree. But the future is unwritten and ever changing. Which allows for some freedom while dealing with time in this story. It's only glimpsed. Everyone involved thinks Ragnarok can be avoided. Saving/preserving this particular timeline/marvel universe 999999 becomes an underlying goal in the later movies. Thanos will destroy half of this entire universe, and there's no forseeable way around it to any one who acquires the power of the device as part of their Vision. In Thor 3 there's still some hope that Ragnarok can turn out ok for all, but Loki. However, Ragnarok leaves many Asgardians unable to partake in the final showdown with Thanos. Thanos wanted to let Ragnarok happen a certain way this time. In this universe/time-line/far side of the multi-verse. The Other is briefly in this movie to speed that along.

The key would be that many of the characters that even could manipulate time NEED this timeline a certain way. They're manipulating it, but none of them can directly change things for many of the characters or else it throws their own position in the timeline out of whack... The result: Pym and Lang are both in the Ant Man movie, set in the 80's and the present. Pym has even more multiple personality problems, and he's the one thing the villains want to stomp out but can't. Pym is not a founding member because he's lost in space and time. This timeline is different and so far away from the other marvel verses for a reason. Pym may have always been planned to hop in the story a little later, and Whedon may have already wanted Janet in the Avengers at one point... but only Janet. Anyone else remember hearing how at one point Wasp would have been in Avengers? Why was Whedon planning to use her alone and no Hank? He may be lost, but he's just in time to set up Ultron faster than most are expecting. Ultron would be attacking from time. His introduction in Avengers 2 can come before the Ant Man movie, and be as much of a shock for the characters as the GA.

Selvig's experience with this and new knowledge allows Selvig to show Jane how to free herself (Beyonder and/or the cube's power is sort of giving them clues... and the source of their pre-knowledge and ability to build this device). The tesseract may be somewhat self-aware and didn't want that portal to stay open. This is why it allows Selvig to build in a way to shut down the portal with the scepter... even allowing Kurse to be made and having him eventually kill Malekith could be a self-aware cube manipulating things in the heroes/Asgardians favour. the Tesseract is almost self-aware and showing characters things, showing characters where they'll need to go, what their target is, and what they'll need next. It was only obeying Loki's commands because he was the user. Hawkeye needed to be knocked over the head, but Selvig had the right mind for the cube to allow him to receive its messages and break himself free from the harmful effects Loki had attached to its power. The tesseract can be a tool for good, as well as evil. I think the Althing stuff could definitely be worked into this along with some of these ideas. Even certain possibilities for Loki's punishment, although I do also see Loki going free because of the outbreak of this war. One of his comic book punishments would be similar to what happened to Surtur and Hela in the past. Imprisoned for all time and silenced in between dimensions.

The higher realms aren't affected by time the way Midgard is.. Thor and the Asgardians don't really age the same... and Midgard exists somewhat in the middle realms, in the middle of the world tree, where things are more ruled by time.

Allowing Malekith to try to raise them directly through Midgard, even trying to merge one of their dimensions with Midgard to give them full access to the physical worlds again, and to allow them into the rest of Yggdrasil. Of course Malekith would be stopped before this happens by Kurse. And Hela and Surtur remain trapped for a little while longer. Surtur's minions would cross into Midguard for a while. But Hela and Surtur stay in the shadowy side of existence.


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Old 11-27-2012, 03:04 PM   #254
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I started to read some of those linked ideas but quickly realized all that speculation is way too convoluted. Having to introduce so many characters and their alternate versions? Too much for these films. I don't like having Kang, Thanos, and Ultron all tied together.

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Old 11-27-2012, 03:59 PM   #255
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I started to read some of those linked ideas but quickly realized all that speculation is way too convoluted. Having to introduce so many characters and their alternate versions? Too much for these films. I don't like having Kang, Thanos, and Ultron all tied together.
I agree. And not really applicable to Thor 2, I'm afraid. It's supposedly going to have a more real "Game of Thrones" feel, not a complicated time travelling Dr. Who feel. (although those Elves do look like Cybermen and Weeping Angels had babies! )

ďThe look of the film is a lot bigger than what we did even previously. The first one worked and people loved it, but this is with a different director and just has a totally different feel. Thereís a definite Game of Thrones vibe thanks to [director] Alan [Taylor].Ē Chris Hemsworth

"I have read a script and we start shooting in August. I met with Alan Taylor a couple of months ago and Natalie Portman and I and Alan and a couple of Marvel guys and it was hugely exciting. Ken Branagh did such a wonderful job and, with scheduling or what have you, he didnít end up doing this one, but Iím a big fan of the Game of Thrones series, which is Alanís latest work, and I think that is whatís exciting about the second one: making it sort of more tangible and having a more organic feel to Asgard and that world. I think the science fiction element to Thor... the danger is it falls a little bit into the world of itís "tough to throw a light to." I think of big waterfalls and mountains and a Viking influence, where the Norse mythology kind of grew from. Having that in Asgard is going to make it all the more special and thatís what Alan wants to bring to it. I think that would be the new aspect to this one." Chris Hemsworth

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Old 11-27-2012, 06:53 PM   #256
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I agree. And not really applicable to Thor 2, I'm afraid. It's supposedly going to have a more real "Game of Thrones" feel, not a complicated time travelling Dr. Who feel. (although those Elves do look like Cybermen and Weeping Angels had babies! )

ďThe look of the film is a lot bigger than what we did even previously. The first one worked and people loved it, but this is with a different director and just has a totally different feel. Thereís a definite Game of Thrones vibe thanks to [director] Alan [Taylor].Ē Chris Hemsworth

"I have read a script and we start shooting in August. I met with Alan Taylor a couple of months ago and Natalie Portman and I and Alan and a couple of Marvel guys and it was hugely exciting. Ken Branagh did such a wonderful job and, with scheduling or what have you, he didnít end up doing this one, but Iím a big fan of the Game of Thrones series, which is Alanís latest work, and I think that is whatís exciting about the second one: making it sort of more tangible and having a more organic feel to Asgard and that world. I think the science fiction element to Thor... the danger is it falls a little bit into the world of itís "tough to throw a light to." I think of big waterfalls and mountains and a Viking influence, where the Norse mythology kind of grew from. Having that in Asgard is going to make it all the more special and thatís what Alan wants to bring to it. I think that would be the new aspect to this one." Chris Hemsworth
Which is good. Though, elizah idk what happened with the bolding here.

But going back to some opinions, I think Surtur will have a huge presence in this movie. I think that in a way, it may revolve around him. I love all the ideas, it works for comics, but it is simply too much to bring to the bigscreen. I still stand by what I say that, though we will see all the realms, the major players in this movie will be Thor, Malekith, the dark elves, loki, surtur, and whatever the mauruders are. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanos will have something to do with it, i'd imagine, but not too sure about an appearance. That's my stance at the moment

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Old 11-27-2012, 08:04 PM   #257
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Which is good. Though, elizah idk what happened with the bolding here.
just highlighting the part I wanted to be sure people read!

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But going back to some opinions, I think Surtur will have a huge presence in this movie. I think that in a way, it may revolve around him. I love all the ideas, it works for comics, but it is simply too much to bring to the bigscreen. I still stand by what I say that, though we will see all the realms, the major players in this movie will be Thor, Malekith, the dark elves, loki, surtur, and whatever the marauders are. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'd rather not count out at least an interaction with a Light Elf here or with a dwarf there. Full exploration of those worlds are probably not going to happen but I don't think a minor character like that coming in, particularly if it pushes the story forward is out of the question (I'd love to see Loki tricking a dwarf or two out of something as he does in the myths ). Or a quick glimpse overview of each realm where we see it, perhaps through Odin's eyes, that sort of thing really doesnt take up much screentime. Also I would really at least like a reference to what has become of the Frost Giants after the first film.

The following I posted last page but I think it got lost but reposting as I think it's important... regarding time for antagonists in Thor 2 in comparison to Thor 1

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In Thor 1 we have the Frost Giants, the Destroyer, Loki, and Shield all as antagonists to Thor, plus the need to establish the world and all the characters which they will not need to do as much in Thor 2.

In Thor 2 we have Malekith, Kurse and the Dark Elves for sure which may only amount to Loki's amount of time, or even just the Frost Giants and Destroyer's time if there is less to the part than we think. Surtur if he's in it acting "shadowy" may only take up Shield's time. So that leaves either part of Loki's or the Frost Giants/Destroyer amount of time for another antagonist since Loki, is not apt to have as big a part in this has he did the first one (I hope he does, but I suspect he wont). And it's not looking like he's going to be so much the villain of the piece from Feige and the actor's commentary although there is probably still mischief to be done
The Vanir story could most certainly fit into this remaining slot, and I could certainly see Loki switching sides to the Vanir if he wanted to stay out of Asgardian prison, or saw an opportunity for advancement there, or some other reason and so getting some more time for those characters and story set up from that. (if that's the direction they go in)
In addition, we had in Thor 5 altercations (that took up more than a few seconds of screen time, that is). Odin and co vs Frost Giants, Thor and co vs The Frost Giants, Thor vs Shield, Thor vs Destroyer, and Thor vs Loki

currently for Thor 2 we have 4 altercations we know or are pretty sure about. Thor vs Malekith, Thor vs Kurse, Thor and co vs armored invaders at Bourne Wood, and Iceland Battle scene. So there could easily be at least one more big fight we don't know about yet, possibly more. I know a stuntman tweeted about a spaceship crashing into a palace but that could be part of one of these other fights.

And the phrase "Thor fights to restore order across the cosmos," in the synopsis is not going to mean nothing!

So it would appear to me to be not any more packed with characters and altercations than Thor 1 based on what we believe and I am in addition hypothesizing to happen so far. I agree though Surtur coming in to battle at the end might be too much here. (Plus Anthony said he wasn't in it much in a recent interview, which makes me think there is no big Odin vs Surtur battle to the death). I am still thinking we'll just have Surtur acting shadowing and pulling strings maybe all through Thor 2, but that really is apt to not take up much screentime, particularly if they decide they want to keep the *big reveal* for Surtur for Thor 3. If he's there, we might not get a good look at him in Thor 2 even.


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Old 11-27-2012, 08:16 PM   #258
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jaqua99 posted this in another thread

Insignificant, but regarding costume, we know Thor will be battling in his armorless outfit, or his casual one. The image of the student double in the costume proves so. And obviously, it must be for a battle, since he is the double
actually I wondered about this too, since the no armor on his arms would indicate he's "powered down" sort of, yes? Or at least less protected. And yet the stunt double outfitted like that would indicate a fight with a stunt is likely, one that he may be unprepared for? Or could he have been stripped of power again? The fights we've seen pictures of him in so far show him with the full armor on. I wonder where that picture was taken, in Iceland maybe? I was under the impression that Stonehendge was at night but not sure about that.

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Old 11-27-2012, 08:59 PM   #259
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I have the impression in the destroyer scenes intercut with Loki that Loki was controlling it and could therefore see what was going on down on earth, and so could see when Jane came running over to grieve over Thor. Loki can definitely see and hear Thor when he says how sorry he is and to take his life and end it, leave these people alone.
That's true.



<gossiping about Thor>
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By the watercooler? LOL
On the Thor message boards!

<Stonehenge used as a portal?>
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maybe but I believe there were at least 2 "Celtic" musicians involved in the Stonehendge filming (listed on IMDB also one of them had tweeted about the filming, as I recall), plus another RUMOR of a naked guy running around during that filming so... that doesn't sound so much like Jane's cup of tea Plus I think she filming something elsewhere at that time.

It's my guess currently that Stonehenge might have been used and redressed a bit to show Alfheim or another world. and maybe the Celtic musicians giving a bit of that Celtic flavor to them and the similarities with Stonehenge will just make us all wonder where Stonehendge may have come from (in the MCU anyway) I haven't worked out why or how that'll all work into the story as a whole yet though. Another possibility is it's some kind of flashback to the Druids for some reason but again no idea how to fit that in with everything else at this time.
I finally had a chance to do some fact-checking. It looks like they filmed the Stonehenge scene around August 29-30. There was a rumor (ie, somebody tweeted) that Portman was spotted in a bar near Stonehenge having a drink with Hemsworth on the 28th. I recall much of the cast was spotted in the UK in late August, and someone on this forum commented that they were probably having their costume fits checked. There are no countervailing pics placing Portman anywhere else in the world at the time. So, it's quite possible she's in the Stonehenge scene.

Stonehenge may well also be dressed up to look like a location on Alfheim (either with or without Jane, I might add ). That may be perfectly sensible if in the story the Stonehenge structure is actually part of a transportation network (of portals). Kind of like how many of the stops in a subway system will have a similar look and feel.

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Old 11-27-2012, 09:09 PM   #260
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<gossiping about Thor>


On the Thor message boards!
I betcha there are A LOT of trolls on that board!

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<Stonehenge used as a portal?>

I finally had a chance to do some fact-checking. It looks like they filmed the Stonehenge scene around August 29-30. There was a rumor (ie, somebody tweeted) that Portman was spotted in a bar near Stonehenge having a drink with Hemsworth on the 28th. I recall much of the cast was spotted in the UK in late August, and someone on this forum commented that they were probably having their costume fits checked. There are no countervailing pics placing Portman anywhere else in the world at the time. So, it's quite possible she's in the Stonehenge scene.

Stonehenge may well also be dressed up to look like a location on Alfheim (either with or without Jane, I might add ). That may be perfectly sensible if in the story the Stonehenge structure is actually part of a transportation network (of portals). Kind of like how many of the stops in a subway system will have a similar look and feel.
Yes! And good detective work! In that case it could certainly be she was there, but sounds like someone was having a party from the other info. LOL

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Old 11-27-2012, 09:17 PM   #261
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actually I wondered about this too, since the no armor on his arms would indicate he's "powered down" sort of, yes? Or at least less protected. And yet the stunt double outfitted like that would indicate a fight with a stunt is likely, one that he may be unprepared for? Or could he have been stripped of power again? The fights we've seen pictures of him in so far show him with the full armor on. I wonder where that picture was taken, in Iceland maybe? I was under the impression that Stonehendge was at night but not sure about that.
Come to think of it, he had a number of costumes in The Avengers.

I suspect the costume design for use by Our Hero (tall, storm powers) for when he was on board the Helicarrier was designed with Edna Mode's admonition in mind.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:25 PM   #262
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I betcha there are A LOT of trolls on that board!
Tsk! Of *course*!

Thor has fans in all the Nine Realms.


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Old 11-27-2012, 09:30 PM   #263
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actually I wondered about this too, since the no armor on his arms would indicate he's "powered down" sort of, yes? Or at least less protected. And yet the stunt double outfitted like that would indicate a fight with a stunt is likely, one that he may be unprepared for? Or could he have been stripped of power again? The fights we've seen pictures of him in so far show him with the full armor on. I wonder where that picture was taken, in Iceland maybe? I was under the impression that Stonehendge was at night but not sure about that.
Not gonna lie, I don't think it makes a big difference..right? I mean, he didn't seem powered down when fighting hulk or ironman, I mean, he was able to brawl evenly with hulk, brawl, withut even using his powers. I think the "armor" may just either be costome, or an asgardian pride thing. i dont think it makes too much of a difference

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Old 11-28-2012, 08:50 AM   #264
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little something interesting I just found, this recent interview with Chris Eccleston at 1:12 he answers what film he is working on and says "Thor 2 Dark Skies"

well that's an interesting slip of the tongue there, and would certainly go along with the Malekith makes Earth dark for so he and the dark elves can come out to play theory.

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Old 11-28-2012, 11:28 AM   #265
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<gossiping about Thor>

On the Thor message boards!
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I betcha there are A LOT of trolls on that board!
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Originally Posted by American Maid View Post
Tsk! Of *course*!

Thor has fans in all the Nine Realms.
LokiRules: I mean, did you see what he was wearing? And he never puts his helmet on!

TheOther: IDK maybe it hurts his head

LokiRules: WTF? I wear mine all the time! I don't whine about it like a big Asgardian cry baby!

MadTitan: U should know about crying, u pansy. Just a little torture n you're all "oh, Thanos stop it! That hurts!"

TheOther: Not to mention all that whining about "Odin never loved me as much as Thor!"

LokiRules: SHUT UP!!!!

Sorry couldn't resist...

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Old 11-28-2012, 11:37 AM   #266
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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LokiRules: I mean, did you see what he was wearing? And he never puts his helmet on!

TheOther: IDK maybe it hurts his head

LokiRules: WTF? I wear mine all the time! I don't whine about it like a big Asgardian cry baby!

MadTitan: U should know about crying, u pansy. Just a little torture n you're all "oh, Thanos stop it! That hurts!"

TheOther: Not to mention all that whining about "Odin never loved me as much as Thor!"

LokiRules: SHUT UP!!!!

Sorry couldn't resist...
LMAO!!!!!

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Old 11-29-2012, 04:30 AM   #267
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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I started to read some of those linked ideas but quickly realized all that speculation is way too convoluted. Having to introduce so many characters and their alternate versions? Too much for these films. I don't like having Kang, Thanos, and Ultron all tied together.
I'm just trying to work out how they'll bring in Ultron. I'm 100% certain Ultron will be a big part of this series eventually... I think time-travel could be an easy way to speed things along with Ultron, Pym, and Janet (who we'll be seeing sooner rather than later). If they go that route they probably would find ways to make things less complicated than what I'm saying. I just think having a prophecy play some part in Thor 2 could help make setting that sort of thing up more possible.

If the time-travel element is kept to prophecy in this movie, then it's not totally out of line with the Game of Thrones/mystical feel.


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Old 11-29-2012, 08:50 AM   #268
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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LMAO!!!!!
well we have to entertain ourselves somehow while we wait for more information to leak and other rumors to surface.

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If they go that route they probably would find ways to make things less complicated than what I'm saying. I just think having a prophecy play some part in Thor 2 could help make setting that sort of thing up more possible.

If the time-travel element is kept to prophecy in this movie, then it's not totally out of line with the Game of Thrones/mystical feel.
Agreed. And yes they will have to find a way to keep that stuff less complicated, if it's used, as they may lose the audience if they dont.

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Old 11-29-2012, 12:06 PM   #269
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

^ yeah, guys, loose the time trial stuff lol. If it is getting hard for even some of us to follow it, come on. Don't forget, this is discussing plot ideas based on some spoilers, but it's starting to venture over into fan fiction for sure lol

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Old 11-29-2012, 12:15 PM   #270
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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^ yeah, guys, loose the time trial stuff lol. If it is getting hard for even some of us to follow it, come on. Don't forget, this is discussing plot ideas based on some spoilers, but it's starting to venture over into fan fiction for sure lol
To clarify, I didnt say I agreed the time travel stuff would be used (at least for Thor 2/3). Prophesies, maybe, not time travel, there is too much we are expecting to go on in Thor 2 as it is, without that serious complication. I was just agreeing that if that or forseeing the future was used they will have to find a way to keep it simple so people can follow it (which I think ain't gonna be easy, like I've said many times time travel is opening a BIG can o worms! )

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:24 PM   #271
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Let's talk about space travel.

I'm back to thinking that the dark elves at Greenwich University are climbing out of a space ship that plowed into the green, taking out a pillar as it landed. We saw that the big pile of rocks on the set had a staircase on the back, and people playing dark elves filed up the staircase and then over the top of the pile of rocks. The two pillars were covered in blue fabric, which should allow for them to remove the pillars post-production. Most of the trench the ship would have dug up will be put in by CGI. Now that I think about it, waffles posted pictures of a fence on campus covered up by blue cloth. Perhaps the ship takes out that fence, too.

I suppose it's more likely the dark elves are landing their ship on Midgard, rather than on Svartalfheim. But Andrew Lawden had said that some of the gothic buildings in London are standing in for those on Svartalfheim. So I suppose it is possible they are returning home, and they had trouble landing the ship (for whatever reason).

The distances between planets are quite vast, though. Spaceships that we humans have considered would take generations to get from one system to another. So I wonder how a dark elf space ship could get over to Midgard in a reasonable amount of time. It would need to have something equivalent to a warp engine, or be able to open a portal. But if they can open portals with their ships, that would undermine the idea that I had for why they are bothering to mess with Midgard generally and Jane & Co. specifically--for their portal knowledge.

The other thing I wonder about is how Thor got to Midgard for the scenes we saw he has with Jane. Does Odin use dark energy again to conjure him? It would seem that these scenes would have to take place before Elizah's idea of the need to get Loki's help to go raise an army. Otherwise, you would have Thor striking a bargain with Loki, then taking a side trip to meet up with Jane & Co., then going for the army. That seems less plausible--why the side trip? So it seems that Thor must travel through space to Midgard using a mechanism other than what Loki provides. But what mechanism?

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:28 PM   #272
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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To clarify, I didnt say I agreed the time travel stuff would be used (at least for Thor 2/3). Prophesies, maybe, not time travel, there is too much we are expecting to go on in Thor 2 as it is, without that serious complication. I was just agreeing that if that or forseeing the future was used they will have to find a way to keep it simple so people can follow it (which I think ain't gonna be easy, like I've said many times time travel is opening a BIG can o worms! )
Yeah, the whole time travel thing is kind of cool in theory, but it can definitely cause a lot of problems in their movieverse. Especially as their universe of characters grows, to continue having their stories inter connect with one another and make sense on a standard timeline is difficult enough, but add in time travel and you start getting alternate versions of reality due to the changes made by the person doing the Time Traveling and then multiply that times the number of stories interconnected and it just gets kind of crazy to even try to consider. So, hopefully if Marvel chooses to use time travel in their movies they will be smart about it's use and perhaps limit it to traveling characters from the distant future to either the current moment or the very immediate future and can therefore avoid stories overlapping and causing problems.

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:28 PM   #273
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Another tidbit that we haven't discussed yet: Tom Hiddleston was spotted arriving at Greenwich University. But we never saw him out in the yard in costume, not like we saw Portman or Skarsgaard (or, of course, Hemsworth and Eccleston). We know that there is an area between the chapel and some other room that was going to be set up for a set. Elizah supposed the chapel might serve as a throne room on some realm other than Asgard. Perhaps Loki is in that scene there? In any event, it doesn't seem like Hiddleston had much work at Greenwich University.

Are there any other interiors at Greenwich University that were used as locations in the film?

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:40 PM   #274
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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Let's talk about space travel.

I'm back to thinking that the dark elves at Greenwich University are climbing out of a space ship that plowed into the green, taking out a pillar as it landed. We saw that the big pile of rocks on the set had a staircase on the back, and people playing dark elves filed up the staircase and then over the top of the pile of rocks. The two pillars were covered in blue fabric, which should allow for them to remove the pillars post-production. Most of the trench the ship would have dug up will be put in by CGI. Now that I think about it, waffles posted pictures of a fence on campus covered up by blue cloth. Perhaps the ship takes out that fence, too.

I suppose it's more likely the dark elves are landing their ship on Midgard, rather than on Svartalfheim. But Andrew Lawden had said that some of the gothic buildings in London are standing in for those on Svartalfheim. So I suppose it is possible they are returning home, and they had trouble landing the ship (for whatever reason).

The distances between planets are quite vast, though. Spaceships that we humans have considered would take generations to get from one system to another. So I wonder how a dark elf space ship could get over to Midgard in a reasonable amount of time. It would need to have something equivalent to a warp engine, or be able to open a portal. But if they can open portals with their ships, that would undermine the idea that I had for why they are bothering to mess with Midgard generally and Jane & Co. specifically--for their portal knowledge.

The other thing I wonder about is how Thor got to Midgard for the scenes we saw he has with Jane. Does Odin use dark energy again to conjure him? It would seem that these scenes would have to take place before Elizah's idea of the need to get Loki's help to go raise an army. Otherwise, you would have Thor striking a bargain with Loki, then taking a side trip to meet up with Jane & Co., then going for the army. That seems less plausible--why the side trip? So it seems that Thor must travel through space to Midgard using a mechanism other than what Loki provides. But what mechanism?
Has the spaceship thing really been confirmed, as I thought this was still more of a rumor (albeit one from someone that appeared to be on location). Because personally Dark Elves and Spacecrafts just seem like an out of place and odd combination to me, but of course if it is true I will reserve judgement for the film itself, while trying to keep in mind that the early Thor comics do seem to have more of technological atmosphere then that of his mythological counterpart.

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:42 PM   #275
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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Another tidbit that we haven't discussed yet: Tom Hiddleston was spotted arriving at Greenwich University. But we never saw him out in the yard in costume, not like we saw Portman or Skarsgaard (or, of course, Hemsworth and Eccleston). We know that there is an area between the chapel and some other room that was going to be set up for a set. Elizah supposed the chapel might serve as a throne room on some realm other than Asgard. Perhaps Loki is in that scene there? In any event, it doesn't seem like Hiddleston had much work at Greenwich University.

Are there any other interiors at Greenwich University that were used as locations in the film?
Yeah, it didn't seem like he had much filming if any. Perhaps he was just there for moral support.

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