All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - Part 17

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

Ugh. I've never thought about that. The more I consider that, the more it pains me to realize that we are going to get Jor-El expecting Kal to become Superman to some extent. Agh.

Why does that pain you?

[Rust]

"Ugh. I've never thought about that. The more I consider that, the more it pains me to realize that we are going to get Jor-El expecting Kal to become Superman to some extent. Agh."

Sure hope not. He might expect something extraordinary from him when knowing of his abilities on earth and then looking at the humans and their evolution.

It's possible that the "what if a child aspired to be more than what society intended of him"-line is PR-stuff just done for the trailers.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

Why does that pain you?

Because I think it's just wrong. Jor-El should not send Kal-El to Earth to completely change it's history and disrupt it's natural order. He's a scientist and observer above all else. He sends his only child away for the hope that it can still live.

It's Clark Kent that decides to use his powers for good and become Superman. No-one else.

The whole Fortress Jor-El training for Clark is the worst thing about the Donner films and the Smallville tv show.

[Rust]

Maybe Krypton is plagued by war (insert Brainiac-reference?) and it's custom that gifted children have to enlist to becoming future soldiers and military strategists and leaders. The war-council (lead by Zod) wants Kal-El because of his genes and specific potential, but Jor-El refuses and suggests "what if a child dreamed of becoming something other than what society intended". "What if a child aspired to something greater?"...

Something like that.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by Rust

Maybe Krypton is plagued by war (insert Brainiac-reference?) and it's custom that gifted children have to enlist to becoming future soldiers and military strategists and leaders. The war-council (lead by Zod) wants Kal-El because of his genes and specific potential, but Jor-El refuses and suggests "what if a child dreamed of becoming something other than what society intended". "What if a child aspired to something greater?"...

Something like that.

Haha nice. Serious props for coming up with that.

[ThePhantasm]

Jor-El can push Kal-El to do great things without telling him specifically what to do. He is the last Son of Krypton after all... and what parent doesn't want their child to grow up to do great things?

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

Haha nice. Serious props for coming up with that.

Hehe, cool. Maybe Zod wants Kal-El/Supes as his lieutenant general on earth remembering his potentiale from back then. I'm sure there'll be family-drama and grudges. The story would look good with some deeper motivations in that department.

[KryptoKnight13]

Originally Posted by Rust

Maybe Krypton is plagued by war (insert Brainiac-reference?) and it's custom that gifted children have to enlist to becoming future soldiers and military strategists and leaders. The war-council (lead by Zod) wants Kal-El because of his genes and specific potential, but Jor-El refuses and suggests "what if a child dreamed of becoming something other than what society intended". "What if a child aspired to something greater?"...

Something like that.

That would be an explanation I could probably get behind, but when I think about what Rust said, now I'm thinking it was a line recorded specifically for the trailer because it works so well with the shots of young Clark running around the yard with the cape and hands on the hips pose.

[DChero]

I think it's just the new "You will believe a man can fly."

To be honest though, it is fun to read into.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by KryptoKnight13

That would be an explanation I could probably get behind, but when I think about what Rust said, now I'm thinking it was a line recorded specifically for the trailer because it works so well with the shots of young Clark running around the yard with the cape and hands on the hips pose.

Exactly. Those shots dont really look like they'll fit into the movie itself. They look very teaser'ish, also because of the way they're shot.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

Jor-El can push Kal-El to do great things without telling him specifically what to do. He is the last Son of Krypton after all... and what parent doesn't want their child to grow up to do great things?

Yeah but you gotta admit there's a difference to wanting your child to grow up and become some great engineer, to having his future planned with a scout ship waiting with Kryptonian outfit, and expecting the boy to impose himself on a completely different civilization changing their course of history forever.

Yes perhaps (hopefully) this won't happen explicitly. But it happened in the Donner films and the Smallville tv show (the 2 most popular Superman pieces in recent history). And the language implied from the trailers implies that it will happen again here.

[KryptoKnight13]

The suit is a mystery too because it's clearly a kryptonian military suit. Whether I was in his spaceship or the fortress of solitude remains to be seen.

Speaking of the fortress, I really hope it's not grown in this movie, I wasn't a big fan of that in other incarnations. The door shown in the comic con trailer seems to suggest this wont be the case. I'm not gonna lie, the inner super geek in me wanted to see a tardis style (from doctor who) fortress of solitude where it's something rather inconspicuous on the outside but massive on the inside lol. But that seems a little too far fetched for the "realistic" approach. It will probably be explained as some sort of kryptonian stealth cloaking technology or something. I've always wanted them to explain why nobody ever had the common sense to place a tracking bug on Superman to see where he disappears to when not saving the world.

[Dr.]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

Because I think it's just wrong. Jor-El should not send Kal-El to Earth to completely change it's history and disrupt it's natural order. He's a scientist and observer above all else. He sends his only child away for the hope that it can still live.

In most versions of the origin, Jor-El is aware of the “science” of yellow suns, etc. and fully understands that his son will be different, have the means to change/influence Earth. So the “destiny aspect” is pretty much built into the standard mythos - and isn't particularly new or revisionist.

[UaalaDan]

I think the line in the trailer just means that Jor-el wants little Kal to live beyond Krypton and survive. "Aspire to something greater" could just mean surviving Krypton's fate. I have no problem with Jor-el knowing his son will be different and all as long as there isn't this "Krypton not exploding and him coming back to save it" BS of the Abrams script...

[ConnorKon-El]

Originally Posted by UaalaDan

I think the line in the trailer just means that Jor-el wants little Kal to live beyond Krypton and survive. "Aspire to something greater" could just mean surviving Krypton's fate. I have no problem with Jor-el knowing his son will be different and all as long as there isn't this "Krypton not exploding and him coming back to save it" BS of the Abrams script...

Well doesn't that just undermine the whole character of Kal-El and his story doesn't it.

[Zionite1]

Originally Posted by Dr.

In most versions of the origin, Jor-El is aware of the “science” of yellow suns, etc. and fully understands that his son will be different, have the means to change/influence Earth. So the “destiny aspect” is pretty much built into the standard mythos - and isn't particularly new or revisionist.

Not really.Yes Jorel specifically sends Kalel into a planet with a yellow sun becuse he knows the powers of the sun will protect him-its a means to ensure survival.Thats all what Jorels intentions were about-ensuring the survival of his son.He did not plan for his son to become some kind of saviour,there is no prophecy involved, no destiny-he simply hopes for the best.

Kal becaomes Superman beacuse of the Kents teachings.End of.Jorel guiding clark on the path to be a hero shld never be used-it shld be the kents-see Superman Earth one to get an idea for a good example on this.

[Scarecrow_King]

I think my main problem with the "destiny" thing is that it ruins the Moses aspect of the character. I never liked Superman being a Jesus parallel, because his creators were Jewish. Being sent away by his parents to save him, without them knowing where he will end up, is distinctly a Moses parallel.

And with the voice over from the teasers saying that the people will stumble but follow him, it sounds like the movie is going for a more "Moses leads the people out of the desert" thing than a "Jesus saves everybody from their sins" thing.

[Binker]

I don't mind all this destiny stuff, but in fact I don't really think that's how that's going to work in MOS. From the comic con trailer, I always imagined that the whole story of Clark is that, he grew up as a regular kid until his teenage years where he is afraid of being discovered ("My son was on the bus. He saw what Clark did") and hurting people and has no answers to who or what he is ("Some many questions. Where do we come from?"), that he is living in alaska so he can hide, and be isolated for some extent. When and how Jor-El appears (you gotta remember, the scene where Clark emerges from a fire and the set photos where he was wearing ruined clothes, perhaps the Earth One/Action Comics (New 52) element of the ship is used or inspired by that), and reveals under his armor the suit; my theory is that its not destiny that Jor-El uses on Clark to become Superman, but Jor-El, as a father, gives Clark advice, direction, and overall confidence to open up and be one with everyone else instead of hidding because of being feared by them. Thats my theory, anyways.

[sup101]

This movie will be heavy on the krypton stuff and really go deep into his kryptonian heritage.


Zod being the main villain make sense for the story they are going for as it wouldn't work with any other villain.

[GreenKToo]

Originally Posted by Rust

I just hope it's not too planned, as I like Superman's placement on earth to be more or less a fluke. As long as there's no BS prophecy or crap like that.

I think it would be better if the ship is some sort of AI thats pre-programmed to seek out a suitable planet with very similar lifeforms as Kal-el.
The yellow sun giving him powers would just be a bonus.

[Dr.]

Originally Posted by Zionite1

Not really.Yes Jor-el specifically sends Kal-el into a planet with a yellow sun because he knows the powers of the sun will protect him-it's a means to ensure survival.That's all what Jor-el's intentions were about-ensuring the survival of his son.

It’s an allowable interpretation (imo) to present Jor-El/Krypton as being clueless about a yellow sun’s “super” properties. And in that way, Earth is just a “lifeboat” and Clark’s Superman destiny becomes entirely self-directed. But if you make Jor-El knowledgeable of the “science” (as is conventional) then, dramatically, his motives and expectations for choosing Earth need to be made explicit. I.e., it beggars belief that he’d send his son to a place that endows god-like powers - and then expect he wouldn’t use those powers (for one purpose or another). “…good character or bad, he’s going to change the world.”

[GreenKToo]

I think we are in for a surprise..some heavy hitter may well be in this. Doomsday, Brainiac, etc.
Think about it. WB wanted to go all out for this, and by all indications, so did snyder. would you really just have Zod and a couple of sidekicks as the main villains? sure it would/could work if done right, but adding Brainiac or someone else rises the stakes to a whole other level.
I'm also convinced we will see some cameos of other heroes, at the least, a mention.

[ThePhantasm]

No villain overkill, please. The last thing Supes needs is to have a film with too many villains in it, diluting them all together.

[Zionite1]

Originally Posted by Dr.

It’s an allowable interpretation (imo) to present Jor-El/Krypton as being clueless about a yellow sun’s “super” properties. And in that way, Earth is just a “lifeboat” and Clark’s Superman destiny becomes entirely self-directed. But if you make Jor-El knowledgeable of the “science” (as is conventional) then, dramatically, his motives and expectations for choosing Earth need to be made explicit. I.e., it beggars belief that he’d send his son to a place that endows god-like powers - and then expect he wouldn’t use those powers (for one purpose or another). “…good character or bad, he’s going to change the world.”

Key word here is expect.When jorel sends his son to earth he doesnt expect anything-he simply hopes-he hopes his son survives and lives a good honorable life.he hopes his son doesnt abuse his powers,he hopes his son becomes a good person.he hopes...

what he does NOT do is expect or plan for his son to be earths saviour. he does not foretell his sons future as a hero he doesnt orchestrate it and most certianly is no prophecy attached to it.he does not send his son to be a light to earth people.he sends his son simply to live.clark chooses to use that life to help others because of the way he was raised

[RachelDawes]

Originally Posted by Dr.

It’s an allowable interpretation (imo) to present Jor-El/Krypton as being clueless about a yellow sun’s “super” properties. And in that way, Earth is just a “lifeboat” and Clark’s Superman destiny becomes entirely self-directed. But if you make Jor-El knowledgeable of the “science” (as is conventional) then, dramatically, his motives and expectations for choosing Earth need to be made explicit. I.e., it beggars belief that he’d send his son to a place that endows god-like powers - and then expect he wouldn’t use those powers (for one purpose or another). “…good character or bad, he’s going to change the world.”

I wouldn't mind Jor-El saying something like that, but he told his son that one day, the people of Earth would join him in the light. Does he believe the yellow sun would confer virtue on Kal-El?