The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

I think when these movies were first being made we had an expectation we could see stuff like Demon in a Bottle. In fact once Robert Downey Jr. got the role it intensified that expectation. Of course all that changed once the movie came out and kids started dressing up as Iron Man for Halloween and buying all the toys and merch. Suddenly you can't have an alcoholic superhero.

You can sort of do stuff like Tony getting tipsy or having a drinky drink or having fun with the ladies, but he can't hit rock bottom and become a full blown alcoholic.

In Iron Man 2 most of the time he was behaving and being responsible. He usually wasn't drinking and was instead drinking his health smoothies. So it wasn't like, he thought he messed up so badly he got depressed and drowning his depression with alcohol.

I do think instead of his fight with Rhodey at the party, he should've had an actual fight with an armoured Vanko while drunk, and gotten thoroughly trashed. That's a staple of the comics. It could've brought him partially to his senses, and shown how he needs to be more responsible. He can't think he'll always win. It would've brought more weight to his drinking problem in IM2 and probably would've made for a better movie.

Maybe Vanko would underestimate him at the end because he thinks that Stark is just a drunk, but now he's facing a sober Iron Man, which is vastly different. That's what was great about the fight between IM and Iron Monger in IM #200. Stane had always faced a drunk Stark and was able to beat him. When they finally clashed personally, this was a different Stark in battle and far more formidable.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

I felt disturbed... Especially when he was blasting objects while drunk with a high powered weapon into a crowd of civilians.... Would it have been more scary if instead of a blast he was holding a gun?

Much scarier. I don't think of IM's computer targeted light show that has never ever hurt any civilians the same way I do an indiscriminate pistol that has a long history of being used on innocents.

If he had missed any of the fast moving targets while being stupid-drunk, perhaps it would have entered my mind that he could have missed any more than when he sniped the hostage holders in that village in IM1. But as is, Tony didn't think he'd miss, and he didn't have any trouble at all, he was just abusing his power. Rhodey didn't even bother to clear the room until there was a fight. I don't think the scene painted the crowd as in any real danger. They didn't even get a safe distance from the house during a superhero fight.

[TheVileOne]

What started his descent into alcoholism was that I think his armor got hacked and someone forced his repulsor ray to go off and kill a dignitary. I think it was Justin Hammer.

[Hawkingbird]

I wonder if we'll be seeing Hammer's wife and daughter with Detroit Steal anytime soon?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

I wonder if we'll be seeing Hammer's wife and daughter with Detroit Steal anytime soon?

I still think there's a good chance that Stephanie Szostak is playing Justine Hammer. Looks just like the comic-book version of her.

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I still think there's a good chance that Stephanie Szostak is playing Justine Hammer. Looks just like the comic-book version of her.

You're not someone who thinks she's Wasp then?

[Matarreyes]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

The thing is his whole drunk scene was pretty innocuous. It wasn't that bad because Tony thought he was dying and Black Widow nudged him and said, "hey live a little if you think it's your last birthday ever."

Wow. It´s not what happened there at all. She told him to spend it with whoever he wanted doing whatever he wanted, the subtext being "ditch the party and go find PEPPER". Because in a previous scene on the plane Tony point blank told Pepper he did not want to go home, at all, and asked her to run away to Italy with him instead. He looked pretty sick and miserable while dressing for his birthday, hence the heavy drinking - he wanted to keep pretending everything was OK and it backfired on him.

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

some of your responses to that scene are, uh, surprising. never heard anyone anywhere say that they were disturbed in any way by that scene. in fact, most of what ive read/heard points to that scene as being silly and one of the reasons why IM2 was a step down from IM1. Irregardless, did you really think Tony was gonna commit homicide/manslaughter against civilians? He cracked up his house, made an ass of himself and pissed off his friends, full stop.

Those of you who saw a high level of pathos and tension in this scene are either a)rationalizing liking a movie most people arent crazy about or b)are bringing their own baggage to bear.

I would want to add a number 3) we actually happened to have brains, thought about that scene a little, and it occurred to us that that a drunk person might commit homicide/ manslaughter not because he decides to, but because, I don´t know, he is drunk off his ass and does not know what he is doing?

There are several people arguing here that since (drunk) Tony did not think he could miss, and since the (also drunk) crowd did not run away, all was just fine and dandy. Following your logic, drunken driving is OK as long as the driver does not actively plan to hit anyone. Please tell me you don´t have a license.

[Trimmings]

Tony has a targeting system, no? I never got the impression that civilians were really in danger at that point. If they would have kept egging him on instead of stopping when WM showed up, I think they would have been in danger, though. Pepper and Rhodey ended things before they escalated into disturbing or nightmarish levels IMO.

I do hope that they'll build up his drinking over a few movies before really dealing with, though. But like a couple of you said, kids don't want to see their superheros drunk and unable to save the day

[TheVileOne]

Yeah I don't think that's what Black Widow was saying at all.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

You're not someone who thinks she's Wasp then?

Not in the slightest.

[Matarreyes]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Yeah I don't think that's what Black Widow was saying at all.

Yeah, I realize you don´t. You could stand to look a bit deeper, though.

[R_Hythlodeus]

wait people are claiming that Jan is in IM3? is there ANYthing that indicates that this might ne true? because it sure sounds like bad fanfiction.... and goes directly against the Feige 'no cameos' quote.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus

wait people are claiming that Jan is in IM3? is there ANYthing that indicates that this might ne true? because it sure sounds like bad fanfiction.... and goes directly against the Feige 'no cameos' quote.

There's an as yet unidentified female character in the movie so of course it's Wasp!

It doesn't have to make any sort of sense for the internet to run with it

[metaphysician]

I don't think Natasha was saying *anything* specifically. Rather, it was a test, with the goal being to goad Tony into doing *something*. What he chose to do would be the indicator.

Given that his response wasn't "party and get plastered" or "hide in my room getting drunk" or, yes, "hop into bed with Pepper like there's no tomorrow", but "suit up and pilot-while-drunk amidst bystanders," he did indeed fail big time. That's why Nick Fury showed up personally the next day.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Matarreyes

Yeah, I realize you don´t. You could stand to look a bit deeper, though.

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Yeah I don't think that's what Black Widow was saying at all.

I can see both sides to it.. though.. I either think she wanted that outcome, or was being legit, and trying to get him to wake up for once.

I mean.. her mission was to spy on tony to see if he was actually able to be part of the avengers. She was assessing him.

I think personally she "dangled a worm" in front of him, to see if he'd take the bait and screw up, and he most certainly did

[marvel_freshman]

[steintym]

I might have completely missed this before, but I never noticed the "Lt Col James Rhodes" on the Iron Patriot.

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

I can see both sides to it.. though.. I either think she wanted that outcome, or was being legit, and trying to get him to wake up for once.

I mean.. her mission was to spy on tony to see if he was actually able to be part of the avengers. She was assessing him.

I think personally she "dangled a worm" in front of him, to see if he'd take the bait and screw up, and he most certainly did

Yeah that's not the same as telling him to go be with Pepper.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Yeah that's not the same as telling him to go be with Pepper.

I think pepper could have been the right answer to the test he didn't pass though.....

[LokiDionysos]

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus

wait people are claiming that Jan is in IM3? is there ANYthing that indicates that this might ne true? because it sure sounds like bad fanfiction.... and goes directly against the Feige 'no cameos' quote.

Feige specifically said no cameos from any of the Avengers, she might not be an Avenger yet. We know Radioactive man is in the movie, but he`s not a villain. They may NEED her before Avengers 2, and there are only a certain number of movies they can get in before then... Feige has made reference to the fact that they only have so many movies and and so much time to tell the story they want to tell. it makes a hell of a lot of more sense than introducing a character that may not impact future stories or have as much GA recognition & importance - if they only have certain opportunities to work her in before Avengers 2.

Let`s not forget, Whedon wanted her in Avengers at one point. Things may be able to be worked out with how she`ll be portrayed in Ant Man now, as the planning of phase 2 and 3 has gone forward after Avengers proved a massive success. Prompting the studio to take what Feige calls many risks with how IM3 will give us a nice little soup of things (all the elements and set ups are mixed in well as part of the whole, essential to the whole soup, and a more balanced mixture of things than how Shield & Widow were worked into IM2).

[R_Hythlodeus]

Originally Posted by LokiDionysos

Feige specifically said no cameos from any of the Avengers, she might not be an Avenger yet. We know Radioactive man is in the movie, but he`s not a villain. They may NEED her before Avengers 2, and there are only a certain number of movies they can get in before then... Feige has made reference to the fact that they only have so many movies and and so much time to tell the story they want to tell. it makes a hell of a lot of more sense than introducing a character that may not impact future stories or have as much GA recognition & importance - if they only have certain opportunities to work her in before Avengers 2.

Let`s not forget, Whedon wanted her in Avengers at one point. Things may be able to be worked out with how she`ll be portrayed in Ant Man now, as the planning of phase 2 and 3 has gone forward after Avengers proved a massive success. Prompting the studio to take what Feige calls many risks with how IM3 will give us a nice little soup of things (all the elements and set ups are mixed in well as part of the whole, essential to the whole soup, and a more balanced mixture of things than how Shield & Widow were worked into IM2).

so there are no real facts that indicate Jan is in the movie but an actress whose role we don't know and fanboys with too much time and imagination. case closed. no Jan then. thought so.

[LokiDionysos]

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus

so there are no real facts that indicate Jan is in the movie but an actress whose role we don't know and fanboys with too much time and imagination. case closed. no Jan then. thought so.

Look at it this way, it`s not case closed until we look inside the box and find out the absolute truth. She looks a lot like Jan, but she also looks like other characters.

Schrodinger`s cat is alive and dead at this point.
It very well could be Jan, and as far as I know I`m the only person claiming knowledge that she is...

You`ll have to take that for what it`s worth until you have access to the box, and the people in charge reveal whether or not this particular cat is alive or dead. I`m assuming they won`t reveal her role until it comes out. It seems very significant if they`ve already revealed a lot of the other major characters & pieces that can help us predict how this story will play out.

Right now you only have my word that I`ve caught a glimpse inside the box, but I understand how the internet works.

And that after seeming so likely that the cat might be dead inside that box, the cat might be alive and out of the box.

[R_Hythlodeus]

Originally Posted by LokiDionysos

Look at it this way, it`s not case closed until we look inside the box and find out the absolute truth. She looks a lot like Jan, but she also looks like other characters.

Schrodinger`s cat is alive and dead at this point.
It very well could be Jan, and as far as I know I`m the only person claiming knowledge that she is...

You`ll have to take that for what it`s worth until you have access to the box, and the people in charge reveal whether or not this particular cat is alive or dead. I`m assuming they won`t reveal her role until it comes out. It seems very significant if they`ve already revealed a lot of the other major characters & pieces that can help us predict how this story will play out.

Right now you only have my word that I`ve caught a glimpse inside the box, but I understand how the internet works.

And that after seeming so likely that the cat might be dead inside that box, the cat might be alive and out of the box.

claiming to have inside knowledge without anything to back that claim up is the complete opposite of understanding how the internet works.
I'll give you the benefit of doubt for now, but I can guarantee you, the minute you are proven wrong all hell will break lose. you'll probably get banned too. we've had this situation before on these boards and it wasn't pretty.
so, ok, Jan is in a Schrödinger state of existance right now, but I'll bet you a gazillion internet money that that cat is dead. Feige won't anger Wright and cast an actress that will become Wrights leading actress in Ant-Man without asking him and I find it very unlikely Wright would be d'accord with the actress that is supposed to play Jan in IM3.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus

claiming to have inside knowledge without anything to back that claim up is the complete opposite of understanding how the internet works.
I'll give you the benefit of doubt for now, but I can guarantee you, the minute you are proven wrong all hell will break lose. you'll probably get banned too. we've had this situation before on these boards and it wasn't pretty.
so, ok, Jan is in a Schrödinger state of existance right now, but I'll bet you a gazillion internet money that that cat is dead. Feige won't anger Wright and cast an actress that will become Wrights leading actress in Ant-Man without asking him and I find it very unlikely Wright would be d'accord with the actress that is supposed to play Jan in IM3.

100 amens to this.

There are a LOT of reasons why Janet Van Dyne will NOT appear in IM3, but the chief reason is, pure and simple, that she's part of Ant-Man's mythos and the Avenger mythos, NOT Iron Man's. Introducing her in an IM movie disrespects Edgar Wright (who should have "dibs" on her), the Avengers, Iron Man, and the fans, all in the same breath. Feige is NOT going to let that happen. (And we've already had the backlash from similar misplaced cameos for Hawkeye in Thor and Widow in IM2.)

[Hunter Rider]

The 4 new pics didn't seem new to me.