The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Darthphere]

I see the Sneijder to United rumors have popped up again.

[Poeman]

They always will...

[spidey-dude]

Originally Posted by wobbly

If they do go for one I'd (obviously) like to see them go after Falcoa, and offer Torres in part exchange. Torres was an old favorite there so that might sweeten the deal for Athletico, and the move might do Torres some good as well.

Oh, and the remark about Chelsea fans getting on Torres back? They have been more than tolerant during his 2 years at the club. It's only more recently they have started getting at him, especially when he clearly does not put in a shift (and rightly so. It's one thing being out of form, but when you see any player not even try against the 'lesser' teams enough's enough).

Regarding his form, and lack thereof, and the reasons for it...Well, training can be part of it but injuries are usually the main culprit. I remember Kerry Dixon was a goal scoring machine before picking up a bad hamstring injury (against Liverpool in the FA cup ages ago) and he was never the same after that: Lost that initial burst of speed and sustained pace, which was vital to his game as he was never the most skilful of forwards, so the goals dried up for him just as they have for Torres. Torres in the past was always skilful as well as fast, but these days even that skill has abandoned him (his 1st touch is too often poor, his passing too often poor, his shooting too often poor...you get the picture). I genuinely hope Benitez can do something to help the guy, but I think he is a lost cause at the moment.

I think one the guys in the papers summed it up best when commenting on Roman's bringing in Benitez as a desperate attempt to get Torrres back to his best: It's like bad poker player chasing a busted flush.

If thats aimed at me than I apologize maybe my wording was a bit off, I meant that without the unfaltering praise, adoration and support that he was receiving at Liverpool, which meant his belief in his own ability was diminished and only more recently stick from fans which means he will find it hard to regain that confidence in his current climate - the only reason I dont think its purely injury based like Dixon is because he was still banging in goals in his last half season with us in which he suffered from injury and wasnt fully recovered, leading me to believe there are other factors at play - as Zola said, his heart isnt in Chelsea as it was in Liverpool or Athletico

[kit1982]

I agree with you Spidey, before he left you lot look at his goals against Chelsea, Wigan and even his brace against Wolves a few weeks before he left. He wasn't the man of yesteryear but he still had a touch of class about him, you couldn't dream of him scoring those now. Torres up until recently has had alot of support from the Chelsea fans and even a team built round him but sometimes you have players who just don't fit with certain clubs.

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by spidey-dude

If thats aimed at me than I apologize maybe my wording was a bit off, I meant that without the unfaltering praise, adoration and support that he was receiving at Liverpool, which meant his belief in his own ability was diminished and only more recently stick from fans which means he will find it hard to regain that confidence in his current climate - the only reason I dont think its purely injury based like Dixon is because he was still banging in goals in his last half season with us in which he suffered from injury and wasnt fully recovered, leading me to believe there are other factors at play - as Zola said, his heart isnt in Chelsea as it was in Liverpool or Athletico

That was indeed in response to your comment and thanks for acknowledging it was not worded well. I agree though that the fans having got fed up with him now* will not help him either, but I'd look at Drogba as an example of how he should handle that: When he wasn't scoring well and was diving for fun, he went down holding his face after a Man City defender tussled with him on a run into the box. Now the replays showed he did in fact get hit across the face by the defenders outstretched hand (still not enough to merit Drogba's reaction though), but in real time it looked like there was no real contact and he'd gone down faking it again.

At this point even the Chelsea fans jeered him as they were fed up with it. Drogba's response? He didn't sulk. He didn't moan. He got his act together, cut out the theatrics and started scoring again (was still prone to going down easy at times in the remainder of his years at the club, but after that incident he was never as bad for it again).

So Torres should stop sulking, stop whingeing to the Spanish press, and concentrate on doing the only thing that will fans really want from him (and what he is paid an awful lot of money for), effort and goals.

*Going back to the fans: A lot of this is also because fans were not impressed with his attitude after we won the CL, moaning about not being picked to start the final and not being selected for the 5 penalties, rather than enjoying and celebrating the fact the team were CL winners. Me, Me, Me, and that's a sure fire way to annoy the fans.

Furthermore, it's now known that RDM was being told to play Torres. I mentioned a while back when we drew a game (that Torres was again awful in) that I couldn't fathom why RDM was giving him the nod in most games. Mystery explained. And if the reports are true, RDM was told before the Juventus game that if he dropped Torres and we lost, he would be facing the sack.

So from the fans pov, Torres is largely responsible for RDM, a fan favorite, getting the boot, with an 'old enemy' being brought in apparently for the benefit of that same player only.

I do hope for both Benetiz and Torres, as well as the club, that Roman's last gamble pays off, but with no sign of that happening so far I don't blame the fans at all for giving the pair of them (and Roman) stick.

The fans will soon get on their side if the results and goals for Torres start coming in, but if things carry on as they are it will only get increasingly worse.

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by kit1982

I agree with you Spidey, before he left you lot look at his goals against Chelsea, Wigan and even his brace against Wolves a few weeks before he left. He wasn't the man of yesteryear but he still had a touch of class about him, you couldn't dream of him scoring those now. Torres up until recently has had alot of support from the Chelsea fans and even a team built round him but sometimes you have players who just don't fit with certain clubs.

I agree with that. Whatever the reason for his abysmal form the fans should not be blamed, nor can the club.

Sometimes, as you say, some players just don't fit in. Sadly for us Chelsea fans Roman has yet to accept this fact.

[spidey-dude]

oh I wasnt blaming the fans at all - he merited the support he got with us as he was one of our greatest ever goalscorers, so of course we would give him praise during a rough patch - Chelsea fans havent mishandled how theyve approached Torres at all (except for putting the Shankly gates on that copied banner :P ) and them now giving him stick is completely understandable too as he has underacheived and then some during his time there - unfortunately people are 'programmed' differently and it doesnt look like Torres has the will power of Drogba

[Hunter Rider]

The confidence of Torres is definitely the key at this point, he looks utterly miserable and has for some time, even back when he was at Liverpool. I think his move from Liverpool affected him in the sense that he didn't want to leave a place where he was a hero, but at the same time for his career he felt he had more chance of winning trophies and playing regular CL football if he moved to Chelsea. That combined with the toll his injuries took on his game has led to the shell of a player we see today.

If you watch him in a lot of games now he even avoids getting into scoring positions in case he fails to convert, I'm not sure how he can be built back up, I mean Roman has even went to the extreme of pushing out a popular manager in the hope that a manager Torres last played well under will get him back on track, if this doesn't work then a move from Chelsea will see him at a club a rung or two down IMO.

Originally Posted by wobbly

Yup, no improvement at all on Sunday, and against much weaker opposition too so no excuses for it either.

Regarding a striker: they should bring in one, but then they should have done that last summer (RDM wanted one to replace Drogba, but was told to stick with Torres). I figure unless Torres starts scoring real soon then Roman will have to suck it up, admit he ballsed up big time and go with another forward. Not sure but I think we might be able to recall Lukaku in January if push comes to shove.

If they do go for one I'd (obviously) like to see them go after Falcoa, and offer Torres in part exchange. Torres was an old favorite there so that might sweeten the deal for Athletico, and the move might do Torres some good as well.

I was surprised at the decisions made in the summer, I mean Roman wanting his investment in Torres to bare fruit is one thing but he left his manager with no other options to play up top in a system that requires a goal getter. Lukaku would give you a good rotation option but I just don't think he's ready this season to take the lead role so the Torres problem would persist if that was the only striker move made in January.

That would be a great deal but from what I have read Atletico will only accept a straight money offer as they need the cash to pay off debts, and now Falcao is saying he doesn't want to move in January. Last night the mirror linked you with Taison, which seems odd since I thought he was more of a winger/10.

Btw I see Oscar is to be dropped tomorrow as Benitez looks to strengthen the midfield area. I had a feeling that trio in behind the striker wouldn't last long under him.

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Yeah I think the injuries took their toll on his body. I wouldn't say it was just training.

It seems to have all been a snowball effect for Torres, mentally now he seems shot and hasn't adapted his game to account for his lessened speed.

[wobbly]

And it just get's worse...

Sigh...A good pass from Torres to set up our goal but that was as good as it got from him. And exactly as I thought he would, Benitez sent them out for the 2nd half to defend that goal, and no surprise that less than ambitious ploy backfired. West Ham were fortunate to get the equalizer though as as Carlton Cole blatantly climbed all over Ivanovich for that goal, but you reap what you sow.

After that we opened up again with Torres inevitably missing a chance to pass the ball into the net around the already prone goalie (hit it right at him..), and Mata was unlucky hitting the post from a good free kick before WH took the lead. Torres then hit a close range open header right at the goalie before WH rubbed it in late on after a clanger from the other Cole.

All in all, though a more entertaining game that the previous 2 efforts (didn't have me dozing off at least), it was a piss poor performance again, and regardless of benefiting from a poor call on one goal it was a deserved win for WH.

I figure the ever impatient Roman is already preparing the nails for Benetiz's coffin and getting his hammer ready. As RDM got the sack for a run of 'poor results' how many more can Roman tolerate from a guy none of us Chelsea fans wanted near the club in the first place?

[Van Petrol]

This season's a write off. We NEED a Bayern type resurgence next season.

[Hunter Rider]

Cole's goal was definitely a foul, ironically a lot more of a foul than the one that was ruled out for Nolan after Collins was adjudged to have lent on Ivanovic, but overall West Ham did enough to merit the 3 points. At this rate with the 4th spot hanging in the balance you have to wonder if Roman will indeed axe his second manager this season by January.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

This season's a write off. We NEED a Bayern type resurgence next season.

Wow, last I saw it was 0-0 but I just checked and saw Michu scored twice very late in the game and that there was a protest against Wenger and the club's board?

[Van Petrol]

We're in a complete mess.

[B]

What a ****ing shock.. we have gone behind yet again this season.

Christ almighty we need Vidic back & we need to get more solid. We won't be there come the end of the season if we don't tighten up.

[B]

Sneijder told to lower wage demands or find a new club

Yes ****ing please have mercy!

28 years old, perfect fit to slot into our midfield in Scholes place & he has the vision, wit & ability to play much like Scholes in a deeper playmaker roles when he no longer has the legs.. sign him up Fergie.

Him & Strootman.

[B]

Yes! Well done Anderson.

He's been looking very good past few games, very direct plays his balls fast & into feet.

When Anderson gets the ball & Hernandez is playing, watch Hernandez & how he immediately knows a pass is coming his way & is on his bike.

[B]

Yes! Well done Rooney, fantastic penalty.

Looked to be indisputably a penalty for the foul on Evans. Tabb just bundled into the back of Evans.. I'm not sure what the hell he was thinking.

[Darthphere]

This is ridiculous. The defending is horrible.

[B]

What the **** is going on, horrific marking from the corner 2-2 after 20 minutes.. ****

[kit1982]

WTF is going on at the Mad Stad?

Anyway sod the Premier League, 3 wins in a week and 3 top performances..... to be honest with nothing to moan about I'm abit lost

[Sebastos]

And there's the third, wow.

[B]

Fergie is preparing his half time hairdryer for Evans.. the donut must have been asleep during set-piece training in the middle of the week.

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by B

Sneijder told to lower wage demands or find a new club

Yes ****ing please have mercy!

28 years old, perfect fit to slot into our midfield in Scholes place & he has the vision, wit & ability to play much like Scholes in a deeper playmaker roles when he no longer has the legs.. sign him up Fergie.

Him & Strootman.

Only potential problem is he and RVP apparently have beef.

[B]

Ouch Rafael subbed after only 30 mins for Chris Smalling.. probably because he has been booked & McAnuff I think his name is has been giving him some problems.

Feel for him because Evans has been at fault for both goals from the corners & Rafael has been solid for us since the start of the season.

[B]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Only potential problem is he and RVP apparently have beef.

We will never sign him anyway, Scholes & Giggs will probably sign new deals delaying our need for some new blood in the midfield for another year.

Do they both still play for Holland together?