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Old 12-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #151
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

New interview with James Badge Dale, who I had no idea was in the trailer until now.
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Ben Kingsley is the mouthpiece. Guy Pearce is the brain. I’m the muscle,” he said. Being in 200 million movies with CGI “is a weird departure” for him. “I’m more of a ‘put two guys in a room and we’ll just talk to each other’ style of actor. But I had a lot of fun. I learned to ride a horse. I got to beat up grown men in robot suits and shoot zombies with Brad Pitt.
http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/12/01...swalds-brother


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Old 12-01-2012, 05:40 PM   #152
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Originally Posted by marvel_freshman View Post
New interview with James Badge Dale, who I had no idea was in the trailer until now.

http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/12/01...swalds-brother

"Ben Kingsley is the mouthpiece. Guy Pearce is the brain. I’m the muscle....I got to beat up grown men in robot suits"
So can we assume that his character will be a Mallen type? (i.e. an Extremis enhanced human with super strength/speed/enough power to beat up IM.)


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Old 12-01-2012, 06:59 PM   #153
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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New interview with James Badge Dale, who I had no idea was in the trailer until now.

http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/12/01...swalds-brother

That looks more like something for the Village People or a Chippendales event.

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Old 12-01-2012, 07:00 PM   #154
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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So can we assume that his character will be a Mallen type? (i.e. an Extremis enhanced human with super strength/speed/enough power to beat up IM.)
Dale was long ago confirmed to be playing Coldblood (Lt. Col. Eric Savin).

http://marvel.wikia.com/Eric_Savin_(Earth-616)

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Old 12-01-2012, 07:36 PM   #155
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

I honestly don't get why anyone complains about cameos/guest stars in the MCU. It wouldn't be a connected universe if there was nothing to connect the stories. That's not saying these character appearances have to overpower the movie or anything, but they're definitely necessary.

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Old 12-01-2012, 11:30 PM   #156
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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I honestly don't get why anyone complains about cameos/guest stars in the MCU. It wouldn't be a connected universe if there was nothing to connect the stories. That's not saying these character appearances have to overpower the movie or anything, but they're definitely necessary.
TBH, I'm not complaining about Widow in IM2. Yes, I think her role was superfluous and unnecessary to the storyline, and needlessly complicated a movie that already had more than enough antagonists/foils for Tony, but I was happy to see her, and see ScarJo play her nicely.

But bit parts like Hawkeye are just "ugh." If you're going to actually *have* a cameo as Hawkeye, then do something Hawkeye-ish, goddammit. Don't just pull a bow, aim, then stand down and never contribute anything to the plot.

That's why I think the theory that Janet is in this one is complete bull****, because there is absolutely nothing in that brief scene, and nothing in the faux rumormills about her role that are even remotely like the Janet Van Dyne of the comic books (616 or Ultimate).

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Old 12-02-2012, 01:03 AM   #157
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

I actually don't think cameos like the Hawkeye one are distracting at all. It's like Branagh said, they were always gonna have a sniper in the nest to increase tension-- why not Hawkeye? It contributes about as much as the big guy Thor fights during the scene; just adding another obstacle. But nobody complained about him.

But if Marvel came out and said it was gonna be Luke Cage in the scene, people would've been rolling their eyes and calling it forced. The only people who complained about Hawkeye were the ones who knew about his upcoming presence and role in the Avengers movie. Anyone else I knew who saw it literally thought nothing of it. They didn't think it was "pointless" or "forced" or "out-of-place". The only question I ever got about the scene was why did the sniper guy grab a bow instead of a gun.

Despite all the extra material BW was given to do in IM2, I would give far more credence to her character being called forced than Hawkeye's logical role in a pivotal scene. She was fine in context, but still could've been stripped out and the movie wouldn't be substantially different. The same can be said for Hawkeye I suppose, but he didn't take up unnecessary time-- he contributed rather than subtracted from the story, even if it was in a relatively minor way.


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Old 12-02-2012, 04:00 AM   #158
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

I think BW's role was just as important as Rhodey's or Pepper's.

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Old 12-02-2012, 05:55 AM   #159
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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I actually don't think cameos like the Hawkeye one are distracting at all.
Happen to agree and don't see what all the fuss is about tbh.

Truth is, I'm selfish and old enough to remember a time when movies such as these were just a pipe dream - I want to see as many Marvel characters realised on the big screen as I can and the fact that these movies come around so infrequently (well, relatively infrequently to the comics, anyways) and only last for a short duration means that I cannot be picky about 'character x' popping up in 'character y's movie.

I'm just happy that I'm getting to see 'character x' at all.

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Old 12-02-2012, 08:19 AM   #160
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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The only people who complained about Hawkeye were the ones who knew about his upcoming presence and role in the Avengers movie. Anyone else I knew who saw it literally thought nothing of it. They didn't think it was "pointless" or "forced" or "out-of-place". The only question I ever got about the scene was why did the sniper guy grab a bow instead of a gun.
And that's why a cameo like that is useless: it does nothing to let people *out* of the know (non-fanboys) who this guy is or that he's important to another movie; and it pisses off people who *are* in the know (fanboys) because he didn't do anything really in character. If he'd fired an explosive arrow or something, the scene would've been more of an actual intro to Hawkeye.

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Old 12-02-2012, 12:25 PM   #161
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

If that scene actively pissed you off you may want to reevaluate a thing or two

Besides, he snarked Coulson. That's way more in-character for Hawkeye than firing some arrow

It teased the future for fans without confusing newcomers or bogging down the movie. Really not seeing the issue here

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Old 12-02-2012, 01:53 PM   #162
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

I hope Black will be OK juggling all these characters in one movie that isn't The Avengers.

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Old 12-02-2012, 02:28 PM   #163
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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If that scene actively pissed you off you may want to reevaluate a thing or two

Besides, he snarked Coulson. That's way more in-character for Hawkeye than firing some arrow

It teased the future for fans without confusing newcomers or bogging down the movie. Really not seeing the issue here
eh, while i loved the cameo as a fan in the know...

most of my friends who were completely out of the know, could tell obviously he was suppose to be someone due to the way the screen focused on him, and were actually kinda confused by it.. so that is a legitimate critique

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Old 12-02-2012, 02:53 PM   #164
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Maybe confused to the point of asking someone or googling who that guy was. Kind of like the Thanos scene after the Avengers' credits.

Which seems like the point - it helps to drive interest in the characters' future appearances without being overwhelming or off-putting to those not in the know

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Old 12-02-2012, 03:03 PM   #165
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

eh.. most of my friends don't care to look things up. sure they ask.. but once they get the answer they really don't care anyway since they arn't familiar with the character anyway. Kinda hard to get people excited for something when they know nothing about it.

that's been the general consensus for literally all my non-comic fan friends.

Fanboys look up who people are far more than non fans

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Old 12-02-2012, 03:05 PM   #166
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Maybe confused to the point of asking someone or googling who that guy was. Kind of like the Thanos scene after the Avengers' credits.

Which seems like the point - it helps to drive interest in the characters' future appearances without being overwhelming or off-putting to those not in the know
^this. of course having the camera randomly focus on non other than Jeremy Renner will lead to questions.
But the cameo itself was very well crafted into the story. He had a purpose in that sce. Almost every other agent of SHIELD could have done the same thing he did (which would have happend if Whedon would've said 'no' to Renner as Hawkeye), but instead they chose Clint to appear. A very wise move to get the attention of casual movie goers and make them interested in that character.

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Old 12-02-2012, 03:10 PM   #167
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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eh.. most of my friends don't care to look things up. sure they ask.. but once they get the answer they really don't care anyway since they arn't familiar with the character anyway. Kinda hard to get people excited for something when they know nothing about it.

that's been the general consensus for literally all my non-comic fan friends.

Fanboys look up who people are far more than non fans
Well I did say OR, lol. As in, if no one they asked knew they'd look it up briefly

And then they're at least aware of the character, and the fact that they'll be significant

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Old 12-02-2012, 03:16 PM   #168
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Well I did say OR, lol. As in, if no one they asked knew they'd look it up briefly

And then they're at least aware of the character, and the fact that they'll be significant
1) showing a character doesn't always mean they're significant...
1a) hawkeye wasn't even that significant in Avengers....

2) like i said... MOST people actually don't really care enough to look that up.

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Old 12-02-2012, 04:15 PM   #169
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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So can we assume that his character will be a Mallen type? (i.e. an Extremis enhanced human with super strength/speed/enough power to beat up IM.)
I really hope we get some nice fight sequences this time around.

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Old 12-02-2012, 06:50 PM   #170
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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eh.. most of my friends don't care to look things up. sure they ask.. but once they get the answer they really don't care anyway since they arn't familiar with the character anyway. Kinda hard to get people excited for something when they know nothing about it.

that's been the general consensus for literally all my non-comic fan friends.

Fanboys look up who people are far more than non fans
And yet I'd be willing to bet if Jeremy Renner had fired some trick arrow and did some outlandish "holy ****! " shot with it, your friends and the rest of the general audience would become VERY interested in the character. Far more so than just watching him threaten to fire an arrow, and then not.

*That's* how you sell a character. Marvel Studios did *not* sell the character (Hawkeye, that is) in Thor.

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Old 12-02-2012, 08:52 PM   #171
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And yet I'd be willing to bet if Jeremy Renner had fired some trick arrow and did some outlandish "holy ****! " shot with it, your friends and the rest of the general audience would become VERY interested in the character. Far more so than just watching him threaten to fire an arrow, and then not.

*That's* how you sell a character. Marvel Studios did *not* sell the character (Hawkeye, that is) in Thor.
Agrees. You couldnt of cared less if you saw more of him or not

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Old 12-03-2012, 12:19 AM   #172
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

I honestly think a lot of people here have a point and it can't be just a cameo. It can't be pointless. Marvel's learned from their mistakes of the past, so even though some of the things in phase 2 may be jam packed, I'm thinking they'll be integrated a little better. That's what Feige could be talking about by saying IM3 is a nice mixture of things. Like what we're seeing with AIM, Mandarin, Firepower, Coldblood, Iron Patriot-sort of, Extremis, Rescue, Radioactive Man, all appearing in one movie.

I've attempted to work in Jan because I've come across sources I personally know, and that are involved in some small way- telling me she's Jan. I still have no real clue how that would work.

I'm just thinking of ways that they could be worked in so that it's not as pointless as Widow or Hawkeye. If they were already working for AIM, instead of are it makes it easier. Sort of like they're casually mentioned by both AIM and Shield in the TV show because they've worked for each organization in the past.

The show could detail the history of AIM and Shield every once in a while, but only make reference to people like Pym and Janet who were a big part of the 80's. Pym is knowwhere to be seen until after the GoTG.

My full theory, for those who want to read it (in spoiler tags so it doesn't take up room):
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

In my full theory her presence won't be completely explained until the Ant Man movie. You could see a little of AIM's background with them in the TV show, but mainly Shield's past with AIM. Hank and Jan won't be seen together until Avengers 2. When they're reunited after being separated by dimensions as well as space and time (due to Ultron's plot to stop their existence in this timeline through what they were working on for AIM). Janet and Pym were working on a top-secret project for AIM after leaving Shield. They unlocked Pym particles and almost unlocked sub-space time-travel through neutrinos. AIM is trying to retrieve Red Skull from the past--they're secretly a modern tool for Hydra (but we don't know this for sure or find this out until Avengers 2).

Shortly after making himself big again, Pym and Janet attempt to flee from AIM/Ultron prototype 2 to the future with the device they were being forced to build for AIM. As well as the Pym particle research (which he destroys and is now only within his mind). Jan decides to biologically enhance herself with the Pym particles even though Pym hasn't done it to himself. There's not enough time to build her a suit, and they're arguing because Ultron is taking over AIM... She injects herself with nano-biological implants Pym was working on for himself. They allow her to size change at will with the Pym particles, without a suit. Pym doesn't have the biological enhancements that Jan has at the end of the story... This leads to Jan ending up where they intended, and Pym somewhere else. They make themselves the size of neutrinos, get the time machine functioning, and take Ultron out of the past (which has repercussions for the future of the series and would be how Ultron "leads" the masters in Avengers 2). This was Shield's not so recent mistake of letting that technology fall into AIM's hands. In the Avengers Fury says "Shield made a lot of mistakes, some of them recent".

Janet winds up at some point in Advanced Idea Mechanic's future before the time of IM3 and infiltrates them to search for Pym. Stark knows nothing about AIM's past, and it becomes clear to her at some point that they didn't finish the time-travel research. Mandarin like to act like an Oracle but he knows nothing of Shield and AIM's true past, only what he predicts about the future based on past Empires. She quickly gets wrapped up with Stark and Shield. Pym ended up somewhere much further away because he hasn't altered himself biologically yet. He slipped between time and dimensions as they were traveling... The Yellowjacket suit he's been building to time-travel in malfunctions. Sending Jan to the present as they travel & thrusting him into the GoTG movie for a cameo as Yellowjacket before we're fully introduced to how this Pym has been traveling time and space. He went into the negative spaces between time and dimensions because he wasn't able to directly hitch a ride on neutrinos like Jan was. Pym from the 80's has been missing for a long time, never heard from again, but returns after Lang dies in the present. With a way to send villains into the negative zone.

The first time people would see Pym they wouldn't know it was him, unless they're familiar with Yellowjacket. Jan becomes a big part of the after credits but doesn't know this is where he ended up. We find out a little about her search for him in CA:Winter Soldier. Yellowjacket's raygun is tuned to the negative zone and makes a brief cameo at Knowwhere in GoTG with the future Guardians. They contact one of the 21st century Guardians about Thanos. Adding more mystery to the Pym/Janet separation until it's explained through Avengers 2 and the Ant Man movie. Allowing Pym's Yellowjacket persona to be briefly expressed. When we see him in Avengers 2 he's becoming Ant Man/Giant Man as a hero for the first time, and Lang's powers introduce him to the story. Lang would be included from the beginning of Avengers 2 but dies. Thankfully a force from beyond time has sent Pym back to the 21st century where he's needed to protect the galaxy and defeat Ultron/Thanos.


I do agree that if she's Janet for no other purpose than as a cameo to set her up, then it would suck.


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Old 12-03-2012, 01:07 AM   #173
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Originally Posted by LokiDionysos View Post
I honestly think a lot of people here have a point and it can't be just a cameo. It can't be pointless. Marvel's learned from their mistakes of the past, so even though some of the things in phase 2 may be jam packed, I'm thinking they'll be integrated a little better. That's what Feige could be talking about by saying IM3 is a nice mixture of things. Like what we're seeing with AIM, Mandarin, Firepower, Coldblood, Iron Patriot-sort of, Extremis, Rescue, Radioactive Man, all appearing in one movie.

I've attempted to work in Jan, because I've come across sources I personally know, and that are involved in some small way, telling me she's Jan. I still have no real clue how that would work.

I'm just thinking of ways that they could be worked in so that it's not as pointless as Widow or Hawkeye, if they were already working for AIM instead of are it makes it easier. Sort of like they're casually mentioned by both AIM and Shield in the TV show because they've worked for each organization in the past.

The show could detail the history of AIM and Shield every once in a while, but only make reference to people like Pym and Janet who were a big part of the 80's, but Pym is knowwhere to be seen until after the GoTG.

My full theory, for those who want to read it (in spoiler tags so it doesn't take up room):
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

In my full theory her presence won't be completely explained until the Ant Man movie. You could see a little of AIM's background with them in the TV show, but mainly Shield's past with AIM. Hank and Jan won't be seen together until Avengers 2, when they reunite after being separated by dimensions, as well as space and time (due to Ultron's plot to stop their existence in this timeline, through what they were working on for AIM). Janet and Pym were working on a top-secret project for AIM after leaving Shield. They unlocked Pym particles and almost unlocked sub-space time-travel through neutrinos. AIM is trying to retrieve Red Skull from the past, they're secretly a modern tool for Hydra (but we don't know this or find this out until Avengers 2).

Shortly after making himself big again, Pym and Janet attempt to flee from AIM/Ultron prototype 2 to the future with the device they were being forced to build for AIM. As well as the Pym particle research (which he destroys and is now only within his mind). Jan decides to biologically enhance herself with the Pym particles even though Pym hasn't done it to himself. Only because there's not enough time to build her a suit and they're arguing. Pym doesn't have the biological enhancements that Jan has at the end of the story... This leads to Jan ending up where they intended, and Pym somewhere else. They make themselves the size of neutrinos, get the time machine functioning, and take Ultron out of the past (which has repercussions for the future of the series and would be how Ultron "leads" the masters in Avengers 2). Shield's not so recent mistake of letting that technology fall into AIM's hands. In the Avengers Fury says "Shield made a lot of mistakes, some of them recent." Jan winds up at some point in Advanced Idea Mechanic's future. Pym ends up somewhere further away because he hasn't altered himself biologically yet. The Yellowjacket suit he's been building to time-travel in malfunctions. Sending Jan to the present as they travel & thrusting him into the GoTG movie for a cameo as Yellowjacket before we're fully introduced to how this Pym has been traveling time and space. He went into the negative spaces between time and dimensions because he wasn't able to directly hitch a ride on neutrinos like Jan was. Pym from the 80's has been missing for a long time, never heard from again, but returns after Lang dies in the present. With a way to send villains into the negative zone.

The first time people would see Pym they wouldn't know it was him, unless they're familiar with Yellowjacket. Jan becomes a big part of the after credits but doesn't know this is where he ended up. We find out a little about her search for him in CA:Winter Soldier. Yellowjacket's raygun is tuned to the negative zone and makes a brief cameo at Knowwhere in GoTG with the future Guardians. They contact one of the 21st century Guardians about Thanos. Adding more mystery to the Pym/Janet separation until it's explained through Avengers 2 and the Ant Man movie. Allowing Pym's Yellowjacket persona to be briefly expressed. When we see him in Avengers 2 he's becoming Ant Man/Giant Man as a hero for the first time, and Lang's powers introduce him to the story. Lang would be included from the beginning of Avengers 2 but dies. Thankfully a force from beyond time has sent Pym back to the 21st century where he's needed to protect the galaxy and defeat Ultron/Thanos.


I do agree that if she's Janet for no other purpose than as a cameo to set her up, then it would suck.
LokiDionysos, as usual you have a very interesting take on things, but I am not so sure about all of the time travel stuff. It just seems to be getting confusing to me. I am also not sure why characters, that I would generally not consider to be time travelers in the comics, would appear as such in the film. I think it would be better to leave time travel to a character like Kang, and have the knowledge and technology to time travel come from the future, not from present day like you are suggesting. However, maybe thats just me.

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:12 AM   #174
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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New interview with James Badge Dale, who I had no idea was in the trailer until now.

http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/12/01...swalds-brother

Cool find marvel_freshman, thanks for sharing. Obviously from the airplane scene. Can't wait!

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:25 AM   #175
LokiDionysos
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 289
Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer View Post
LokiDionysos, as usual you have a very interesting take on things, but I am not so sure about all of the time travel stuff. It just seems to be getting confusing to me. I am also not sure why characters, that I would generally not consider to be time travelers in the comics, would appear as such in the film. I think it would be better to leave time travel to a character like Kang, and have the knowledge and technology to time travel come from the future, not from present day like you are suggesting. However, maybe thats just me.

Surfer

I realize it's a bit complicated but if Jan, AIM, and Thanos are all the major connecting veins of Phase 2 it could workout. AIM may have a little more time to be explored in CA2. If they're a resurrected Hydra head, that is.

I think it could be a way to almost reinvent the Ant Man character by rearranging some of his timeline. Adding more importance to him as the one thing stopping Ultron from using time travel like he will in Age of Ultron. Allowing Pym to discover the negative zone much quicker than in the other comics, adding that huge piece to the movies. Ant Man may be the one thing stopping an Age of Ultron from existing in the MCU. If Ultron kills Pym right after he's created, this stops Pym from ever being able to prevent Ultron's plans for the future. Of course, this requires Ultron having some knowledge of time and would be the reason why AIM is working on timetravel (with subatomic particles) and need Pym (from a plot perspective this also ties some things together, Red Skull will return as part of Ultron's masters). Timetravel would be more like what some of the villains want, but only one villain who comes into phase 3 has direct access to it. AIM thinks the subatomic world will lead to time travel and advance this idea to someone Shield has just chased away. Their research was too controversial and Shield wanted to control Pym. Shield took his stuff, which becomes Lang's, but Pym and janet got suckered into working for AIM. Additionally the only reason time-travel is a goal of AIM's is to try to retrieve Red Skull from the 40's and hence his DNA. If Red Skull's coming back we haven't been shown that he traveled time and dimensions yet. He went through a wormhole in the 40's but we have no clue where or when he ended up..

Not spoilers necessarily but more here:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

This is why I keep mentioning that the time travel stuff would be mainly kept to Ant Man/Ultron/Immortus. And it would exist only to lead to places between dimensions and times.

In the comics they've made attempts to fix the infamous wife-beating episode. Sometimes it's suggested that Hank wouldn't have done that if not for Ultron etc.

What concerns me is the one attempt they made to fix this, where an alternate version of Kang manipulates things to make Pym hit Janet, and thus gets him kicked off the Avengers team. The android human torch body was involved in this story.
This wouldn't be exactly the same & he wouldn't strike her in the movies. Time-travel and a time-traveling version of Ultron would lead to their disagreement and the need to escape AIM quickly. Ultimately leading to their separation. Almost like this Marvel verse's version of the fight/him not being an Avenger. Which is what Ultron wants. He wanted to control his future by altering Pym's past. He wanted Pym out of the picture right off the bat. However, Pym ends up escaping to the future and sends Ultron to the 31st century. As they're time traveling to stop/hopefully trap Ultron they get separated and that's how Jan ended up trapped in the present, while Hank is in the middle of knowwhere. Two thirds of the Ant Man movie would be Pym and Jan working on time-travel for AIM in the past, learning to use Pym particles in the process, getting stuck small for a while, controlling the ants, and then becoming big. We'd see Ultron being developed at the beginning, but by the time Pym is big again Ultron is threatening AIM and Janet. They come to the quick decision to time-travel. The realization that Ultron's been doing his job, has almost completed the time-travel research he was created to assist in, and intends to use it to overthrow humanity, dawns on them. But Ultron can only send his consciousness (based on Pyms), because you have to travel through a negative wormhole. Something Pym and Janet can physically do, and Ultron can't, because of the Pym particles. Ultron hasn't learned to alter his own size/particles yet, but controls other technology.

While Pym was working with the Pym particles, controlling the ants etc, Ultron became self-aware and aware of the timeline manipulation that AIM intended (retrieving Red Skull/controlling Mandarin's Empire). Pym stops Ultron by trapping him in the 31st century, and prevents AIM from acquiring time-travel by taking the device out with him. Slips between the cracks. Gets separated from Jan, lost in space and time. Never heard from again, and Lang became the Ant Man for Shield eventually. They had some research from before he left Shield, but little knowledge of their work at AIM.

Some of this idea may be being re-worked for age of Ultron. In which an alternate version of what I just described goes on and leads to Ultron manipulating time and taking Ant Man out of existence before he can become a problem to Ultron's future goals.
Ultron realizes that because of the time-travel tech at AIM in this verse, he can take out Pym as soon as he's created. If he sees that Pym becomes a recurring problem to him, then he can stomp him out and rule all the various timelines, dimensions, and ages that Pym has just partially unlocked before Pym realizes it. Ultron tries to kill off Janet and Hank in the past, asap, AIM won't let them escape the building, so they panic and complete the time travel themselves before Ultron can get the Pym particle implants. Janet takes them and uses them on herself to stop Ultron from being able to time-travel directly. Only his consciousness is sent to the machines in Avengers 2.. well and Vision, a prototype he builds that can alter his density to travel back from the 31st century.



Ultron is Pym's mistake and like the timeline, he needs to fix it. He needs to timetravel out of knowwhere into the timeframe of Avengers 2 or Ultron's attack will succeed. Only Pym knows that this is when Ultron will return in full force (controlling nano-technology and taking advantage of the suits and existing AI). In Avengers 2 Ultron is still only flirted with and was purposely getting himself involved in things to affect Thanos. Ant Man takes care of his personal foe quickly when both of them suddenly show up after Lang dies. Pym begins to explain who he is & the timetravel fully to Shield and the Avengers. He's reunited with Jan, but we don't catch all of what just happened before Thanos becomes a threat again. Meaning Ant Man could come out after Avengers2, and take place in the 80's/ the present with Pym + Lang narrating Shield's view of events.

Janet and Lang introduce us to Pym's powers at the start of the story in Avengers 2 so that further explanation isn't needed when he timetravels in and they're reunited after Jan searching for him for four movies. The funny thing is Ultron would have prevented the world from falling into Thanos's grip but the masters would have been in charge. Ant Man comes in and changes things, but it only makes it so that Thanos can arrive on schedule. Ultron, Immortus, The Other and Thanos become the major players in phase 3. Nebula and Loki still have roles to play. All the other villains (minus Surtur and maybe Hela) are killed or imprisoned during Avengers 2. Loki is killed by Thanos but Hela helps him return during Ragnarok in Thor 3.


Last edited by LokiDionysos; 12-03-2012 at 04:32 AM.
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