Any word on if this is going to resolve continuity issues from First Class?

[EnDz0n3]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

It's a continuity error plain and ****ing simple. Why are we still talking about this?

Exactly. It happens all the time. There are certainly more egregious continuity errors in other higher profile movie series than a character saying they met when he was 17. Afterall Rachel Dawes went from pretty to...

*Rachel Dawes SHH poster, don't kill me

[DigificWriter]

@huzzah: It's clear that you have no idea what the word 'retcon' means.

@Mulholland '49: No, its not a continuity error; it's a retcon.

Another example of a retcon would be the following: In the Half-Blood Prince novel, J.K. Rowling has a character remember an instance from Prisoner of Azkaban differently than as she (Rowling) had initially described it. The incident in question was Hermione hitting Draco, and the retcon was having the one character remember the hit as a PUNCH when she had originally described the hit as a SLAP. She made the retcon because of her appreciation for the way that Alfonso Cuaron had visualized the incident in the filmic adaptation of PoA.

[spidey-dude]

Originally Posted by EnDz0n3

Exactly. It happens all the time. There are certainly more egregious continuity errors in other higher profile movie series than a character saying they met when he was 17. Afterall Rachel Dawes went from pretty to...

*Rachel Dawes SHH poster, don't kill me

I like to pretend that Rachel Dawes was involved in some sort of accident between begins and TDK

[spidey-dude]

Originally Posted by EnDz0n3

^^ I feel like you don't know what retcon actually means?

Hey spidey-dude who's the hot dude on your avatar?

Steven Gerrard, England and Liverpool football (soccer if you're American) captain

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by EnDz0n3

^^ I feel like you don't know what retcon actually means?

Hey spidey-dude who's the hot dude on your avatar?

After consulting the definition it appears its meaning depends on what argument is being put forward. ie retconning means you're never wrong even though there are blatant continuity issues.

If First Class is retconning, as is being claimed here without any evidence, then where does X1 stand?

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by DigificWriter

@huzzah: It's clear that you have no idea what the word 'retcon' means.

@Mulholland '49: No, its not a continuity error; it's a retcon.

Another example of a retcon would be the following: In the Half-Blood Prince novel, J.K. Rowling has a character remember an instance from Prisoner of Azkaban differently than as she (Rowling) had initially described it. The incident in question was Hermione hitting Draco, and the retcon was having the one character remember the hit as a PUNCH when she had originally described the hit as a SLAP. She made the retcon because of her appreciation for the way that Alfonso Cuaron had visualized the incident in the filmic adaptation of PoA.

But Draco was still struck by Hermoine.

In X1 Xavier's description of his meeting with Magneto did not take place at all.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by huzzah

But Draco was still struck by Hermoine.

In X1 Xavier's description of his meeting with Magneto did not take place at all.

It's an unfortunate continuity error, or a retcon.

At the time X1 was scripted - in 1996-1998, which is 14-16 years ago - they decided Xavier was 17 when he met Magneto

But when it came to writing First Class, they evidently wanted them to meet as two young men in the 1960s, when they would be in their 20s or 30s.

As you know, there are many other things that don't line up. I'd like them to revisit the DVD/Blu-ray versions to do some re-editing (adding deleted scenes, correcting a few bits to make them flow better) but I doubt they will bother to go to that time and trouble (let alone expense). Xavier's line could be overdubbed with 'when i was a young man...'

It would be so good if we had an X-Men Definitive Collection from Singer where he recut all the films to make them flow as perfectly as possible? But I don't think it will happen.

[Legion]

Don't you guys get the point of this movie? If Ian McKellan's Magneto travels back in time and meets Xavier when he's 17, he will help him build the first Cerebro! It will be perfect!

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Legion

Don't you guys get the point of this movie? If Ian McKellan's Magneto travels back in time and meets Xavier when he's 17, he will help him build the first Cerebro! It will be perfect!

Where is the evidence that is definitely happening?

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

It's an unfortunate continuity error, or a retcon.

At the time X1 was scripted - in 1996-1998, which is 14-16 years ago - they decided Xavier was 17 when he met Magneto

But when it came to writing First Class, they evidently wanted them to meet as two young men in the 1960s, when they would be in their 20s or 30s.

As you know, there are many other things that don't line up. I'd like them to revisit the DVD/Blu-ray versions to do some re-editing (adding deleted scenes, correcting a few bits to make them flow better) but I doubt they will bother to go to that time and trouble (let alone expense). Xavier's line could be overdubbed with 'when i was a young man...'

It would be so good if we had an X-Men Definitive Collection from Singer where he recut all the films to make them flow as perfectly as possible? But I don't think it will happen.

It makes wonder what the throught process was when they were coming up with ideas for First Class. The more I think about DOFP the more I think its part of an alternate time line that started with First Class. Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellan and Hugh Jackman will play themselves but will be part of different timeline to X1, X2, x3 and Xmen Origins.

[marvelrobbins]

Jesus.Some of you want everything to perfectly flow together.Most TV shows and franchises make liberties with what was said In dialogue about past.

Star Trek franchises was consently reconning the Borg.George Lucas In Star Wars prequels didn't totally stick to what he wrote about the past.

The Idea that X-Men has to be totally Inline with each other but other franchises and TV shows don't Is getting trying.

X-men first Class had many connections to X-Men and X2.The idea It's different timeline If It's doesn't stay 100 percent to what was said about past Is crazy.

People are trying to make things way way way more compicated than It needs to be.The Idea that Bryan Singer Is directing and X-Men and X2 not part of official film timeline
Is crazy.The future with Sentinles will be post trilogy or post X-Men/X2.

[NanaT]

I would think that Fox would use this as a way to fix all continuity issues or at least the more glaring ones. I don't see them re-editing the movies to make them line up but I could see them going the Star Trek route and using time travel as an excuse for any inconsistencies.

And I also find nothing wrong in wanting a movie saga like X-Men to flow perfectly within its own continuity. And Just because other movies have continuity mistakes doesn't mean its okay for X-Men to have them too. Most of us here are X-Men fans and we hold the X-Films to a higher standard than others. We expect perfection but at the very least we should have some sort of consistency.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Jesus.Some of you want everything to perfectly flow together.Most TV shows and franchises make liberties with what was said In dialogue about past.

Star Trek franchises was consently reconning the Borg.George Lucas In Star Wars prequels didn't totally stick to what he wrote about the past.

The Idea that X-Men has to be totally Inline with each other but other franchises and TV shows don't Is getting trying.

X-men first Class had many connections to X-Men and X2.The idea It's different timeline If It's doesn't stay 100 percent to what was said about past Is crazy.

People are trying to make things way way way more compicated than It needs to be.The Idea that Bryan Singer Is directing and X-Men and X2 not part of official film timeline
Is crazy.The future with Sentinles will be post trilogy or post X-Men/X2.

This is an X-Men board so of course the emphasis is going to be on X-Men. But I wouldn't want any other franchise to have continuity issues either for that matter.

The reference to Xavier being 17 in X1 was so specific that it sounded like Singer and the writers had some specific event in mind that we might one day see.

However, the story for First Class meant retconning/ignoring that detail.

Of course fans and fanboys are going to notice this stuff - and discuss it to death.

There's very little we can do about those past issues but, by pointing them out, there is the hope that the filmmakers might do more mapping out of the franchise in future and try to avoid similar issues occurring again.

[EnDz0n3]

Originally Posted by spidey-dude

Steven Gerrard, England and Liverpool football (soccer if you're American) captain

LOL I should've known! I've worked on him!

He's sooo hot...haha don't mind me

[Mulholland-Jr]

A retcon would only work if Xavier lied to Wolverine about the age he met Magneto.

[Mrs Vimes]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

People are trying to make things way way way more compicated than It needs to be.The Idea that Bryan Singer Is directing and X-Men and X2 not part of official film timeline Is crazy.The future with Sentinles will be post trilogy or post X-Men/X2.

But the whole idea of DoFP is to make sure that this timeline with Sentinels and camps does not actually happen. So if X1-X3 are a part of that timeline, where does that leave them post-DoFP and what is then the "official" timeline? The idea that Singer would not want to exclude X1-X2 from this movie, but that he would be totally fine to put aside his own films after DoFP to make way for a new timeline, and leave "his" timeline in a dead end in a dystopian future, is kinda strange to me.

I think that bringing in X1-X3 into this movie -and- keeping them as a part of current timeline would work if you set the crucial event shortly after X3. That way, after the dystopian future is averted, the post-X3 timeline can just go as per normal. But by setting the event back in the 60s, I don't see it working the same way.

[huzzah]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Jesus.Some of you want everything to perfectly flow together.Most TV shows and franchises make liberties with what was said In dialogue about past.

Star Trek franchises was consently reconning the Borg.George Lucas In Star Wars prequels didn't totally stick to what he wrote about the past.

The Idea that X-Men has to be totally Inline with each other but other franchises and TV shows don't Is getting trying.

X-men first Class had many connections to X-Men and X2.The idea It's different timeline If It's doesn't stay 100 percent to what was said about past Is crazy.

People are trying to make things way way way more compicated than It needs to be.The Idea that Bryan Singer Is directing and X-Men and X2 not part of official film timeline
Is crazy.The future with Sentinles will be post trilogy or post X-Men/X2.

And your obsession with X1, X2 being in, and every other film being erased from existence indicates you wont accept the possibility that all of those films maybe part of different time line.

When you travel back to the past inorder to prevent a future event from happening you alter events subsequent to that event. In fact some events may not happen at all, lets see...the Sentinels going into operation because they are destroyed? Perhaps Xavier didn't meet Magneto when he was 17, in that timeline (First Class). Unlike you I can't say for certain what will happen in this film, so I can only speculate.

[J.Howlett]

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes

But the whole idea of DoFP is to make sure that this timeline with Sentinels and camps does not actually happen. So if X1-X3 are a part of that timeline, where does that leave them post-DoFP and what is then the "official" timeline? The idea that Singer would not want to exclude X1-X2 from this movie, but that he would be totally fine to put aside his own films after DoFP to make way for a new timeline, and leave "his" timeline in a dead end in a dystopian future, is kinda strange to me.

I think that bringing in X1-X3 into this movie -and- keeping them as a part of current timeline would work if you set the crucial event shortly after X3. That way, after the dystopian future is averted, the post-X3 timeline can just go as per normal. But by setting the event back in the 60s, I don't see it working the same way.

But First Class kind of retconned X3 out of the entire timeline already...

[J.Howlett]

And your obsession with X1, X2 being in, and every other film being erased from existence indicates you wont accept the possibility that all of those films maybe part of different time line.

But, it's not like First Class and vague quotes from Singer and Vaughn during the lead up to First Class don't give him that ammunition.

Vaughn/Singer went through great lengths to pretty much kill the idea that the Last Stand is part of this continuity. The opening scene in the Last Stand is what does that film in. It doesn't fit, period.

Yes, First Class doesn't completely line up with X-Men and X2 (still drives me crazy) but, it at least lines up much better with those two films than it does the Last Stand.

What makes this whole thing a mess is that the Wolverine is post TRILOGY, which kind of messes up the line of thinking that Vaughn/Singer had with First Class. On top of that, Jackman's going to appear, in a significant role (don't think for a second it'll just be a cameo), in Days of Future Past. How is that all going to work?

At the end of the day, the blame goes to Vaughn. It seems, to me, that he really wanted to blaze his own path with X-Men and have it a full on reboot but got skittish to that idea and basically played 50/50 with that film. It's one of the reasons why it's one of the must frustrating films to watch. On the one hand, they got A LOT right for it to line up with X-Men and X2, but then they go bone headed and make things a tad complicated for plot convenience for First Class to work towards its end but that contradicts the first two films.

What a damn nightmare. That's one of the reasons I haven't gone back to the film in a while and why I just watch X-Men and X2 mostly.

Now with Singer back, we have no idea what the hell is going to happen. Singer is going to want to get the house that he created. That's just going to be nature. The question is, will it contradict First Class, this new film?

[Legion]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Where is the evidence that is definitely happening?

That was a joke X-Maniac.

[DigificWriter]

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

The question is, will it contradict First Class, this new film?

Highly doubtful, given that Singer helped create the story for FC and was a producer on it.

Regarding The Last Stand and First Class: Unless I'm missing something, the only two things about FC that don't jive with TLS are Xavier being paralyzed and his falling-out with Erik happening a lot earlier than TLS' first scene indicates, both of which are things that are fairly easy to reconcile.

[spidey-dude]

Originally Posted by EnDz0n3

LOL I should've known! I've worked on him!

He's sooo hot...haha don't mind me

sorry you've worked on him? I am very jealous, he is one of my heros!

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by EnDz0n3

LOL I should've known! I've worked on him!

He's sooo hot...haha don't mind me

What do you mean when you say you "worked on him"?

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

But, it's not like First Class and vague quotes from Singer and Vaughn during the lead up to First Class don't give him that ammunition.

Vaughn/Singer went through great lengths to pretty much kill the idea that the Last Stand is part of this continuity. The opening scene in the Last Stand is what does that film in. It doesn't fit, period.

Yes, First Class doesn't completely line up with X-Men and X2 (still drives me crazy) but, it at least lines up much better with those two films than it does the Last Stand.

What makes this whole thing a mess is that the Wolverine is post TRILOGY, which kind of messes up the line of thinking that Vaughn/Singer had with First Class. On top of that, Jackman's going to appear, in a significant role (don't think for a second it'll just be a cameo), in Days of Future Past. How is that all going to work?

At the end of the day, the blame goes to Vaughn. It seems, to me, that he really wanted to blaze his own path with X-Men and have it a full on reboot but got skittish to that idea and basically played 50/50 with that film. It's one of the reasons why it's one of the must frustrating films to watch. On the one hand, they got A LOT right for it to line up with X-Men and X2, but then they go bone headed and make things a tad complicated for plot convenience for First Class to work towards its end but that contradicts the first two films.

What a damn nightmare. That's one of the reasons I haven't gone back to the film in a while and why I just watch X-Men and X2 mostly.

Now with Singer back, we have no idea what the hell is going to happen. Singer is going to want to get the house that he created. That's just going to be nature. The question is, will it contradict First Class, this new film?

I think it could well contradict any or all of the existing films. It seems to be a feature of this franchise, to be honest. The focus is only ever on the film being made, rather than how it fits into the bigger picture.

The only hint so far of acknowledging the franchise as a whole has been talk of The Wolverine somehow connecting to DoFP.

And, previously, the characters in Josh Schwartz's earlier First Class script had to match up with the mutants rescued by Xavier at the end of XMO:Wolverine.

I'm bracing myself for further contradictions, or at the very least some unanswered questions like First Class characters suddenly disappearing from the cast of DoFP.

[def28]

I just hope this mess of continuity is laid to rest at the end of the film. Start the new timeline and learn from the mistakes of not planning these films ahead. It seems they want to connect more, so hopefully it goes smooth starting with The Wolverine.

I really think X Men fans are gonna have a solid new line up of flicks. All the choices so far and interviews have sounded awesome. I really have no complaints with where they seem to be going.