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Old 12-03-2012, 03:20 AM   #51
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72 View Post
ROTJ is not the end of a chapter, its the end of the story. full stop. any new film should be chapter one in a new SWU saga.
I disagree. And thankfully Disney, Lucas and Kennedy do, too.

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Old 12-03-2012, 08:09 AM   #52
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I disagree. And thankfully Disney, Lucas and Kennedy do, too.
Evidence, please?

Personally, I think that Disney's Star Wars should be the start of a new saga (perhaps from Episode VII to XII; split into two trilogies). ROTJ felt very much like an ending - the Emperor was defeated, the Empire in disarray, and Anakin Skywalker's soul had been redeemed. All the major subplots had been wrapped up; and would be weaker for it if attempted to continue. The only possible exception to that is the question of whether the Jedi will reclaim its former glory; which to me, feels like the start of a new adventure rather than the continuation of the old one.


P.S.:
Something I'd like to add is that while 'the passing of the torch' sounds like a good idea in theory, it is very hard to successfully execute in practice. Often, you're likely to run into the situation where the successor steals all the limelight away from the original and making the latter seem less 'badass' (which would upset the fans) OR the original still gets all the best scenes which would make the successor seem incompetent and thereby unworthy; with almost no middle ground. As such, it's easier to end a series with the passing of the torch to a 'new generation' than to begin the next series with it.


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Old 12-03-2012, 09:31 AM   #53
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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Eh? No Sith != no lightsabers. Of all the intergalactic logical leaps you've made, this one takes the cake.
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I had hoped people would have forgotten all about him by now, but i guess there's a whole new generation waiting to get sucked in by his fantasies

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Old 12-03-2012, 02:21 PM   #54
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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I disagree. And thankfully Disney, Lucas and Kennedy do, too.
Wellllll.....actually. Disney and Kennedy have said that this will be a "new story"

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Old 12-03-2012, 03:02 PM   #55
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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Wellllll.....actually. Disney and Kennedy have said that this will be a "new story"
New story as in...not based on a preexisting EU book.

If they're calling it 7, 8 & 9...that would imply a continuation of the Skywalker storyline.

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Old 12-03-2012, 03:19 PM   #56
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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New story as in...not based on a preexisting EU book.

If they're calling it 7, 8 & 9...that would imply a continuation of the Skywalker storyline.
I think without a direct statement from Disney, that's presumptuous at best and we shouldn't be putting words into other people's mouths unless they actually said them. After all, the title of the movie franchise is 'Star Wars' and not 'The Skywalker Family'.

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Old 12-03-2012, 03:34 PM   #57
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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I think without a direct statement from Disney, that's presumptuous at best and we shouldn't be putting words into other people's mouths unless they actually said them. After all, the title of the movie franchise is 'Star Wars' and not 'The Skywalker Family'.
True. But EP-1 thru EP 6 have been about the Skywalkers. Why call it EP 7, 8 and 9, if it's not going to continue that same story line in some way.

But fair enough...we have to wait and see. Hopefully, we'll have some answers soon.

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Old 12-03-2012, 07:06 PM   #58
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

I just don't want the new movies to be all about the Skywalker/Solo kids, if that's the case. I want the 'band of strangers' vibe that the OT had.

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Old 12-03-2012, 11:18 PM   #59
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I've felt for years that Vader's speech to Luke in ESB suggested that there was more to killing Palpatine than destroying the (current) body. If it was as easy as Vader throwing him over a rail; then why didn't he do it years earlier? Was it Palpatine keeping Vader from dying the whole time?

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Old 12-04-2012, 02:16 AM   #60
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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True. But EP-1 thru EP 6 have been about the Skywalkers. Why call it EP 7, 8 and 9, if it's not going to continue that same story line in some way.

But fair enough...we have to wait and see. Hopefully, we'll have some answers soon.
There are many possible reasons. For instance, the movies will continue route tell major events that shapes the universe. Or, the movies are set chronologically after Episode VI. Or, Disney decided it would do more harm than good in terms of hype and marketing if it wasn't titled Episode VII.

Another way to look at it is that that before the prequels, the movies were all about Luke. By your logic, the prequels should also been about Luke since up until then, that was what the movies were all about - not the Skywalker family as a whole. The connections between movies and limitation of scope are only something that can and should be viewed in hindsight.

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Old 12-04-2012, 02:25 AM   #61
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

I feel like they should start off with a few recruits from the Jedi Academy. Or the New Republican army force thing. and then go from there. Maybe one of the new recruits is a Solo or Skywalker kid.

That way we start off we get to see it from the 'new' generation of characters and slowing bring them in to the adventure once the OT characters get involved.

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Old 12-04-2012, 05:49 AM   #62
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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Evidence, please?
No need for evidence. There is no way in sweet hell that Ep7 will not be a sequel to RotJ. Will it feature Skywalkers/Solos/Calrissians and the likes? No idea. But it won't be a prequel to TPM.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:14 AM   #63
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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There are many possible reasons. For instance, the movies will continue route tell major events that shapes the universe. Or, the movies are set chronologically after Episode VI. Or, Disney decided it would do more harm than good in terms of hype and marketing if it wasn't titled Episode VII.

Another way to look at it is that that before the prequels, the movies were all about Luke. By your logic, the prequels should also been about Luke since up until then, that was what the movies were all about - not the Skywalker family as a whole. The connections between movies and limitation of scope are only something that can and should be viewed in hindsight.
That's not what my logic assumes at all. The prequels were about events that led us to the OT. They weren't just some way way way back random events in some other part of the galactic storyline. There's a continuity of story and dealing with events that led the rise of the Empire and the Skywalker family. If they're labeling the ST Ep. 7, that pretty much denotes a continuous story line with the rest of the saga.

You're the one who said, I believe:
Personally, I think that Disney's Star Wars should be the start of a new saga (perhaps from Episode VII to XII; split into two trilogies). ROTJ felt very much like an ending - the Emperor was defeated, the Empire in disarray, and Anakin Skywalker's soul had been redeemed. All the major subplots had been wrapped up; and would be weaker for it if attempted to continue. The only possible exception to that is the question of whether the Jedi will reclaim its former glory; which to me, feels like the start of a new adventure rather than the continuation of the old one.

You're the one arguing against a continuing storyline. I'm saying, that's it's called Episode 7, it's a more likely that we are getting more of the story from our current saga. A saga that primarily deals with the Skywalker family. That could include Luke, or this children in some way. I think it will be a passing of the torch and a rebuilding of the Jedi ways based on what Luke discovered.

I don't want to seem like I'm just attacking your viewpoint. You're well to believe anything you want. But I think you're taking the position that's a bit more of a stretch at the moment. If they come out with a title like, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Episode 1 (or 4, lol) then we've got a new baby on our hands.

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Old 12-04-2012, 08:20 AM   #64
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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That's not what my logic assumes at all. The prequels were about events that led us to the OT. They weren't just some way way way back random events in some other part of the galactic storyline. There's a continuity of story and dealing with events that led the rise of the Empire and the Skywalker family. If they're labeling the ST Ep. 7, that pretty much denotes a continuous story line with the rest of the saga.

You're the one who said, I believe:
Personally, I think that Disney's Star Wars should be the start of a new saga (perhaps from Episode VII to XII; split into two trilogies). ROTJ felt very much like an ending - the Emperor was defeated, the Empire in disarray, and Anakin Skywalker's soul had been redeemed. All the major subplots had been wrapped up; and would be weaker for it if attempted to continue. The only possible exception to that is the question of whether the Jedi will reclaim its former glory; which to me, feels like the start of a new adventure rather than the continuation of the old one.

You're the one arguing against a continuing storyline. I'm saying, that's it's called Episode 7, it's a more likely that we are getting more of the story from our current saga. A saga that primarily deals with the Skywalker family. That could include Luke, or this children in some way. I think it will be a passing of the torch and a rebuilding of the Jedi ways based on what Luke discovered.

I don't want to seem like I'm just attacking your viewpoint. You're well to believe anything you want. But I think you're taking the position that's a bit more of a stretch at the moment. If they come out with a title like, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Episode 1 (or 4, lol) then we've got a new baby on our hands.
My comment is that your logic is based around picking up a single recurring element in a body of work and extrapolating that this said element is the one defining, recurring element that must continue through the new derivative works. Which is not the case. There are other recurring elements that can be used. So yes, I think it is a bit of a stretch to say at this point that the new management has this same view as yours when they have given no indication as such. I do not presume to know Disney's plans for Star Wars and can only speak for myself in terms of what direction I can see things going.

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Old 12-04-2012, 10:51 AM   #65
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I don't want any EU stuff in these movies. They all pretty much sucked. Ridiculous names, plots, ideas.

I'd rather the films stick to the Skywalker clan, but I don't want to see younger Skywalkers. I don't want the Star Wars films to go on forever and become cheapened.

Star Wars was supposed to be about Luke Skywalker, then it became about Anakin Skywalker's journey. Now I'd rather it be about a purpose that the Skywalker family serves in the universe, and instead of stretching it out meaninglessly and forever, end this new trilogy with Luke or Leia's death (a noble one) that finishes the job.

Obviously they can't be the main characters in the new trilogy, but whatever transpires I want it to be to serve the Skywalker story-line by giving it a definitive end in Episode IX.

Otherwise, new characters and plots. New hero can be someone swept up in events greater than himself (war, the Skywalker purpose, etc.) but not actually related to the Skywalkers.

And yes, we need a cynic in the cast again.

Plus, I hope they show us the Millennium Falcon again, how great is that going to be?

EDIT: ROTJ is the ending of the saga. It definitely feels that way. But what can we do? They are deadset on sequels so we have to get used to the idea that that huge climax was unnecessary now.

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Old 12-04-2012, 01:44 PM   #66
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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New story as in...not based on a preexisting EU book.

If they're calling it 7, 8 & 9...that would imply a continuation of the Skywalker storyline.

My assumption is that they meant that the story about Vader and the Empire is over...
I agree it probably is about Skywalker passing on what he's learned, building the new Jedi Order, etc...
I think they just meant that Anakin's story is done.

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Old 12-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #67
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I think the original idea was the middle (original) trilogy was Luke's story and the first (prequel) trilogy would be Obi-Wan's, with another charcter for the third trilogy. As Lucas was completing Episode I, he announced there would only be six episodes and it chronicles the rise and fall and redemption of Anakin. As such, the story ends with Jedi.

But, now that Episodes VII, VIII, & IX are announced, and the fact they are using the episode numbers, they want to keep it one coherent story. So, it needs to expand from Anakin to the Skywalker legacy. As such, I think the through line could be the idea of the Skywalker connection to bringing Balance to the Force, as it was stated in Episode I. We have seen Anakin effectively ending both the Jedi and Sith Orders. It now falls upon Luke and the Skywalker descendents to establish possibly a better Jedi Order avoiding the mistakes of the past. This could be the struggle of the new trilogy.

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Old 12-06-2012, 06:30 PM   #68
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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True. But EP-1 thru EP 6 have been about the Skywalkers. Why call it EP 7, 8 and 9, if it's not going to continue that same story line in some way.

But fair enough...we have to wait and see. Hopefully, we'll have some answers soon.
Because it wouldn't make sense to release a new Star Wars movie titled Episode 1.

I'd have Luke/Leia/Han sort of handing their roles over to new characters, shifting from the Skywalker focus to something new.

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Old 12-06-2012, 07:49 PM   #69
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Who said anything about a prequel? The movies will take place after ROTJ, but they will be a brand new saga involving new characters and most likely a totally separate story arc. The Skywalker story has a (godawful) beginning, a middle and an end. Six movies was more than enough.

There is no evidence that this new series will be a direct sequel to the OT trilogy, and thats a good sign. The SW universe is more than big enough to accomadate two separate sagas.

The less of the OT cast in these movies the better (if they insist on a "handing of the baton", that would be cringeworthy but tolerable). Preferably none at all. And if I hear they're needlessly inserting the droids or chewie, my expectations will be lowered to post-TPM levels.

And please dont use the old movies as a template for characters. you dont need a space pirate type and a noble woman and a young hothead. you also dont need a cute droid or a furry sidekick. Something new please.

Finally, the numbering is meaningless at this point. Better to drop the whole "Episode" thing and market it like the OT - with subtitles not numbers. if they go with the opening scroll again, they can use chapters without an issue. Example: STAR WARS: NO LITTLE KIDS WE PROMISE.


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Old 12-06-2012, 08:51 PM   #70
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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The Trade Federation could still be around because they were evil yes but also were pawns and still could be used as pawns

On the subject of Vader. Its possible that Darth Vader had an Apprentice but he dismissed him when found out he had a son and this pupil could have had his face damaged in a final conflict with Anakin and he is a New Vader or rather is posing as Vader to rebuild the Empire and is leader of some Dark Jedi.
Vader DID have an Apprentice, but he turned to the Light Side.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_...orce_Unleashed

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Old 12-06-2012, 08:54 PM   #71
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Man, I really hope they use the Starkiller Story for spin-off Movies. That would be an acceptable way to bring back Vader and the Emperor.

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Old 12-06-2012, 08:59 PM   #72
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I think a good start to the movies would be to show the Solo kids growing up, to show an aging cast from rotj (i.e like Ben in the originals as mentors) and to show the Imperials in a decline but not completely an irrelevant force, and to show the jedi order being restored, though not nearly as strong as to that of the clone wars (or at least not at first)

I also like the idea of a "new" threat being established as the new sith or a dark jedi makes its way to prominence through the trilogy

I have no qualms with taking a new direction to that of the EU, as i feel a movie has to not only appease fans but that of people who only pay a passing interest to this great universe, if that means a dark Luke then so be it but i'd like to see how such a great universe deals with rebuilding itself, with a mirage of obstacles along the way.

Perhaps the imperials regain force, through that of one of the solo kids, or perhaps a deception from elsewhere in the new order or a new threat

Maybe a good place to start is how the displacement of good and evil would give rise to smugglers and bounty hunters* and how right and wrong has become lost in such a galaxy, paving a way for a "balance" (sorry for pun) is needed once more

*could also explore jenga in this, or another bounty hunter, or mandalorians

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Old 12-06-2012, 09:04 PM   #73
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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Man, I really hope they use the Starkiller Story for spin-off Movies. That would be an acceptable way to bring back Vader and the Emperor.
I definitely think it's a possibility. It's a pretty good story & like you said, it'd be the best way for them to have Vader in a movie again. Though, I hope they do Boba Fett & KOTOR first.

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Old 12-06-2012, 09:08 PM   #74
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I definitely think it's a possibility. It's a pretty good story & like you said, it'd be the best way for them to have Vader in a movie again. Though, I hope they do Boba Fett & KOTOR first.
I'm hoping that with Disney buying the rights to this, that they tie up the story with this next trilogy then explore the old republic after, i know "more" star wars films may sound a drag to some but the TOR era has so much to explore it is worthy of at least 3 films in the not too distant future

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Old 12-06-2012, 09:31 PM   #75
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Default Re: Where (When) to Begin Episode 7

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Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72 View Post
Who said anything about a prequel? The movies will take place after ROTJ, but they will be a brand new saga involving new characters and most likely a totally separate story arc. The Skywalker story has a (godawful) beginning, a middle and an end. Six movies was more than enough.

There is no evidence that this new series will be a direct sequel to the OT trilogy, and thats a good sign. The SW universe is more than big enough to accomadate two separate sagas.

The less of the OT cast in these movies the better (if they insist on a "handing of the baton", that would be cringeworthy but tolerable). Preferably none at all. And if I hear they're needlessly inserting the droids or chewie, my expectations will be lowered to post-TPM levels.

And please dont use the old movies as a template for characters. you dont need a space pirate type and a noble woman and a young hothead. you also dont need a cute droid or a furry sidekick. Something new please.

Finally, the numbering is meaningless at this point. Better to drop the whole "Episode" thing and market it like the OT - with subtitles not numbers. if they go with the opening scroll again, they can use chapters without an issue. Example: STAR WARS: NO LITTLE KIDS WE PROMISE.
Then there is no point in calling it Episode VII. Just go the Marvel route and call it Star Wars: Whatever.

It is being called Episode VII. That is EPISODE VII of one continuing story...

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