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Old 12-01-2012, 09:12 AM   #401
Anno_Domini
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I disagree, Nolan could have quite easily made it work.
Just one example, Bane says "This city...", cut to Selina walking away from the ravaging mob of prisoners, cut to Bane saying "it will endure", cut to the bomb in the truck.

It would have shown a contrast between Selina and the rest of the prisoners and would have looked damn cool to beat. It's not a big beef by any means, but I think he should have included it somewhere.

What is a slightly bigger beef is that all we see of prison Selina is about 20 seconds, and only when she's coming in and when she's about to be freed. It almost seems like Nolan just wanted to get rid of her for a while and stuck her in a cell. As someone else mentioned in some other thread, once Bruce got broken the Gotham segment of the movie should have focused on Selina. But oh well.
I believe that was me, but I still don't find her walking out of prison necessary for the montage since when Bane was talking about spoils, we do see Selina and Jen walking around inside that one house. It's only after the montage that I feel that Selina should be shown, as well as I think Jen should've been killed during the film as well, cutting off all ties from Gotham since she leaves with Bruce at the end.

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Old 12-01-2012, 10:24 AM   #402
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Well...

1) Make Miranda NYSSA, not Talia. Most of you know why.
2) Make Talia's death less comical, less stoned
3) Just a scene of Blake discovering the cave and looking up, no rising platform
4) Ending it with Bruce's nod
5) Cut out Alfred's foreshadowing of the Café
6) Include Bane's origin
7) Include the full dialogue between Alfred & Bruce @ the manor before he resigns
8) Cut out "Robin" as Blake's real name
9) Include some flashbacks of Joker, I think Heath deserved it, but I understand Nolan a bit...

And I would've still filmed some parts in Chicago. It's not clear enough that we're actually in a different part of the city.

Mind you, I quite like TDKR


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Old 12-01-2012, 09:59 PM   #403
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I know I did. I actually think TDK is the one that veered the furthest into looking more like a pristine city. Hell, TDK looked like a much cleaner version of Chicago.
That's because the city evolved as the story progressed. This, along with Bruce's retirement (for good), is hard for some fans to swallow, simply because the comics are in limbo. Gotham will always be a *****hole in the comics. Let's face it, if Batman was truly successful in the comics, there wouldn't be any crime. If there isn't any crime, there isn't any need for a Batman. If there's no Batman, then there's no comics to sell. The limbo approach is fine when Batman films are being handled like Bond films, which go on and on.

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Old 12-02-2012, 03:52 AM   #404
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That's because the city evolved as the story progressed. This, along with Bruce's retirement (for good), is hard for some fans to swallow, simply because the comics are in limbo. Gotham will always be a *****hole in the comics. Let's face it, if Batman was truly successful in the comics, there wouldn't be any crime. If there isn't any crime, there isn't any need for a Batman. If there's no Batman, then there's no comics to sell. The limbo approach is fine when Batman films are being handled like Bond films, which go on and on.
Ah good old Travesty.


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Old 12-02-2012, 11:10 AM   #405
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

But that doesn't explain why I liked TDKR's Gotham more than TDK's.

Sooooo.......

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Old 12-02-2012, 12:35 PM   #406
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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But that doesn't explain why I liked TDKR's Gotham more than TDK's.

Sooooo.......
Because it was filmed partially in NYC?

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Old 12-02-2012, 01:22 PM   #407
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I would of tried to make Batman come across more seasoned and self aware. Sometimes it felt as though he was year one Batman being a bit head strong, under estimating Bane ("I will fight harder, I always have") etc, he seemed a little too self confident for a supposedly 'damaged/fragile' Bruce.

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Old 12-02-2012, 02:51 PM   #408
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

If he was self aware then he would've been more cautious when confronting Bane, which could of made it possible for him to win in their first battle, which would change the whole plot to the film.

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Old 12-02-2012, 09:48 PM   #409
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Bruce becoming a recluse in the Batcave. Not upstairs in the mansion, doing nothing but wasting away. It so far removed from the character.
Have him be an "oracle" type. Obsessing over his past as Batman. Waiting for a time he is needed to come out of retirement.

Do away with the terribly lazy plot point of John Blake simply guessing who Batman is by seeing him one day in the orphanage and seeing he is wearing a metaphorical mask to hide the pain. I mean....really? How lazy is that.

We are told to accept that some kid guesses who he is due to what I said above, when there was a taskforce of trained detectives who have tried for years to discover who Batman is.

So with that change. John Blake can still be really interested in Batman. Still develop a kinship with Bruce/Bats. and still be given coordinates to the batcave. where he finally finds out that Bruce was Batman!
That wouldve been so much better.

Everything else I can be satisfied with staying the same.

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Old 12-03-2012, 12:14 PM   #410
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Bruce becoming a recluse in the Batcave. Not upstairs in the mansion, doing nothing but wasting away. It so far removed from the character.
Have him be an "oracle" type. Obsessing over his past as Batman. Waiting for a time he is needed to come out of retirement.

Do away with the terribly lazy plot point of John Blake simply guessing who Batman is by seeing him one day in the orphanage and seeing he is wearing a metaphorical mask to hide the pain. I mean....really? How lazy is that.

We are told to accept that some kid guesses who he is due to what I said above, when there was a taskforce of trained detectives who have tried for years to discover who Batman is.

So with that change. John Blake can still be really interested in Batman. Still develop a kinship with Bruce/Bats. and still be given coordinates to the batcave. where he finally finds out that Bruce was Batman!
That wouldve been so much better.

Everything else I can be satisfied with staying the same.
I distinctly seem to remember the presence of that particular aspect in the movie.

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Old 12-03-2012, 12:20 PM   #411
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

^ Indeed.

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:15 PM   #412
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

- Set it only 1-2 years later
- More Batcave time
- No John Blake
- Give all of John Blake's important parts to Gordon
- More Selina, have her more integrated into the plot
- Tate should have been just Bruce's ally not love interest in my opinion
- No football scene
- No having cops trapped underground for 3 months
- Using a fixed Bat-signal instead of a ridiculous flamed Batman insignia on building
- Much better pacing

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:37 PM   #413
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I believe this is the first time I've read someone wanted to have no football scene. I thought it was a magnificent scene.

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Old 12-03-2012, 04:01 PM   #414
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I believe this is the first time I've read someone wanted to have no football scene. I thought it was a magnificent scene.
Absolutely. The shot of Bane's men running into the stands feels so real that it gives me chills every time. Plus, Hardy kills it and the murder of Dr. Pavel is one of the best moments in the film.

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Old 12-03-2012, 04:47 PM   #415
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

1. I’d alter the 8 year absence thing. Instead of Bruce retiring, he never stopped. His injuries are the result of his nonstop crimefighting, while being hunted by the police at the same time.
2. IMPROVE MIRANDA/TALIA DRASTICALLY. She should be the main love interest of the film so that the twist at the end actually has resonance. I’d alter the story so that Bruce and Miranda have known each other a long time. They have feelings for each other, but Bruce is too obsessed with Batman to go further. Have the ballroom scene show sparks not just between Bruce and Selina, but Bruce and Miranda as well. Even when she is revealed to be Talia, show that she actually wants Bruce to rejoin the LOS.
3. Give Bane a better death. If people still want the whole “Catwoman saves Batman from getting shot, complete with one liner”, have Barsad try to off a tied up Batman instead of Bane.
4. Give Blake a reason for knowing who Batman really is….that actually makes sense.
5. Make Batman vs Bane round 2 much, much better. Have Batman using strategy to show that while Bane is physically superior, Batman is mentally superior. The second fight should be just as satisfying as Batman’s rematch with the Mutant Leader in “The Dark Knight Returns”. And of course, the “I came here to stop you” line would be replaced.
6. I wouldn’t have Bruce/Selina end up together. That’s just me, its not a make or break thing.

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Old 12-03-2012, 05:33 PM   #416
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by Mulholland '49 View Post
- Set it only 1-2 years later
- More Batcave time
- No John Blake
- Give all of John Blake's important parts to Gordon
- More Selina, have her more integrated into the plot
- Tate should have been just Bruce's ally not love interest in my opinion
- No football scene
- No having cops trapped underground for 3 months
- Using a fixed Bat-signal instead of a ridiculous flamed Batman insignia on building
- Much better pacing
Football scene was coolio. The rest of your list is aces.

Quote:
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1. I’d alter the 8 year absence thing. Instead of Bruce retiring, he never stopped. His injuries are the result of his nonstop crimefighting, while being hunted by the police at the same time.
2. IMPROVE MIRANDA/TALIA DRASTICALLY. She should be the main love interest of the film so that the twist at the end actually has resonance. I’d alter the story so that Bruce and Miranda have known each other a long time. They have feelings for each other, but Bruce is too obsessed with Batman to go further. Have the ballroom scene show sparks not just between Bruce and Selina, but Bruce and Miranda as well. Even when she is revealed to be Talia, show that she actually wants Bruce to rejoin the LOS.
3. Give Bane a better death. If people still want the whole “Catwoman saves Batman from getting shot, complete with one liner”, have Barsad try to off a tied up Batman instead of Bane.
4. Give Blake a reason for knowing who Batman really is….that actually makes sense.
5. Make Batman vs Bane round 2 much, much better. Have Batman using strategy to show that while Bane is physically superior, Batman is mentally superior. The second fight should be just as satisfying as Batman’s rematch with the Mutant Leader in “The Dark Knight Returns”. And of course, the “I came here to stop you” line would be replaced.
6. I wouldn’t have Bruce/Selina end up together. That’s just me, its not a make or break thing.
Ehh I liked Bats and Selina being together. Better than Talia who was an evil biotch.

The rest of your list is aces.

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Old 12-04-2012, 12:18 AM   #417
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I would've loved for Blake to be that boy from BB. Thematically I think it would've made his "reveal" as well as the ending even more full circle. Also, it would've made his deducing of Wayne's identity easier to swallow because Rachel calls Batman "Bruce" with him present.

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:24 AM   #418
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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If he was self aware then he would've been more cautious when confronting Bane, which could of made it possible for him to win in their first battle, which would change the whole plot to the film.
And your point is?

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:58 AM   #419
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

In hindsight...Id change Talia's death (to a better acted death) and Bane's defeat.
I didn't like that he was just shot and left there.

I don't remember much, but I'll get the Blu-Ray today and watch it again. I have the feeling that's all, though. I liked the movie as it is.

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Old 12-04-2012, 10:55 AM   #420
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I would've loved for Blake to be that boy from BB. Thematically I think it would've made his "reveal" as well as the ending even more full circle. Also, it would've made his deducing of Wayne's identity easier to swallow because Rachel calls Batman "Bruce" with him present.
Yup. Darn right. Blake just recognizing a look was as dumb as hell.

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Old 12-04-2012, 11:15 AM   #421
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Yup. Darn right. Blake just recognizing a look was as dumb as hell.
You said it. I still can't believe I even witnessed that in the movie. Other then the times I saw in the theatre, I refuse to watch that part ever again on the home releases. For someone that has tried to make the series involve 'realism', that moment and scene were the furtherest thing from reality that one could get. The Bat vehicle was more believable.

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Old 12-04-2012, 11:18 AM   #422
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
1. I’d alter the 8 year absence thing. Instead of Bruce retiring, he never stopped. His injuries are the result of his nonstop crimefighting, while being hunted by the police at the same time.
2. IMPROVE MIRANDA/TALIA DRASTICALLY. She should be the main love interest of the film so that the twist at the end actually has resonance. I’d alter the story so that Bruce and Miranda have known each other a long time. They have feelings for each other, but Bruce is too obsessed with Batman to go further. Have the ballroom scene show sparks not just between Bruce and Selina, but Bruce and Miranda as well. Even when she is revealed to be Talia, show that she actually wants Bruce to rejoin the LOS.
3. Give Bane a better death. If people still want the whole “Catwoman saves Batman from getting shot, complete with one liner”, have Barsad try to off a tied up Batman instead of Bane.
4. Give Blake a reason for knowing who Batman really is….that actually makes sense.
5. Make Batman vs Bane round 2 much, much better. Have Batman using strategy to show that while Bane is physically superior, Batman is mentally superior. The second fight should be just as satisfying as Batman’s rematch with the Mutant Leader in “The Dark Knight Returns”. And of course, the “I came here to stop you” line would be replaced.
6. I wouldn’t have Bruce/Selina end up together. That’s just me, its not a make or break thing.
I agree with every one of these, and would love to see them implemented. ESPECIALLY the Miranda/Talia improvement. As it is, both love interests (Tate and Selina) feel so tacked-on to me. Number 3 doesn't bother me much though I wouldn't mind if it was changed (I wanted Barsad to get a bit more screentime because I like Josh Stewart).

If I could make general alterations to the entire trilogy, the biggest things that I would change would be:

-Put Harvet Dent in the first film
-Put Miranda Tate in the second film
-Have Rachel Dawes be played by one actress (if it had to be one of the two that already portrayed her, I'd pick Gyllenhaal)

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Old 12-04-2012, 03:21 PM   #423
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I would've loved for Blake to be that boy from BB. Thematically I think it would've made his "reveal" as well as the ending even more full circle. Also, it would've made his deducing of Wayne's identity easier to swallow because Rachel calls Batman "Bruce" with him present.
It would have made a lot of sense and the kid could have been at least 22 in TDKR.

Was his name Thomas? I could've swore I heard his father yell out 'Tom'.

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Old 12-04-2012, 09:39 PM   #424
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I would've loved for Blake to be that boy from BB. Thematically I think it would've made his "reveal" as well as the ending even more full circle. Also, it would've made his deducing of Wayne's identity easier to swallow because Rachel calls Batman "Bruce" with him present.
Wow, yeah that's a great idea right there!

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Old 12-04-2012, 11:43 PM   #425
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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It would have made a lot of sense and the kid could have been at least 22 in TDKR.

Was his name Thomas? I could've swore I heard his father yell out 'Tom'.
Yeah, I think it might be something like that, when he's telling him to get in here it's kind of muffled, but he may have spoke his name.

Actually, when Blake tells Bruce they've met before I thought that's who he was going to say he was. I've been thinking about it ever since, and while Robin Thomas Blake might not have the same ring to it, in every other facet, it just made sense to me.

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