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Old 12-02-2012, 09:31 PM   #101
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

I'm buying a lot less DC. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that a lot. I'm also less enthusiastic about the line overall because, even when the series are fairly good, the characters usually feel like weird pod people wearing my favorite characters' faces. I understand Kurosawa far better than I ever wanted to now.

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Old 12-02-2012, 09:35 PM   #102
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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I'm buying a lot less DC. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that a lot. I'm also less enthusiastic about the line overall because, even when the series are fairly good, the characters usually feel like weird pod people wearing my favorite characters' faces. I understand Kurosawa far better than I ever wanted to now.
My sentiments exactly.

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Old 12-02-2012, 09:40 PM   #103
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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Yes, it's all about the creative teams. For me, Marvel Now has been exactly as refreshing as the New 52 with no reboot required.
To be fair, Marvel isn't the mishmash of different comic book companies nor did it perform continuity crazy stories like DC. Marvel just didn't need a reboot and thankfully, they had the common sense to not do that.

Frankly, I think DC is better off overall with a reboot.

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You align the right teams to the right characters with the right attitude, and it's going to feel fresh whether you ****ed up continuity or not.
But Marvel continuity was never a mess to begin with. They've been pretty damn consistent overall.

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On an unrelated note, anyone who isn't reading Indestructible Hulk and Thor: God of Thunder is the world's biggest chump.
The best thing about Marvel NOW! is that their major titles (Hulk, Captain America, Thor, Iron Man) feel fresh and exciting now as opposed to before Marvel now where everything was feeling incredibly stale.

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Old 12-02-2012, 09:43 PM   #104
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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I'm buying a lot less DC. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that a lot. I'm also less enthusiastic about the line overall because, even when the series are fairly good, the characters usually feel like weird pod people wearing my favorite characters' faces. I understand Kurosawa far better than I ever wanted to now.
What would be some examples of weird pod people?

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Old 12-02-2012, 09:45 PM   #105
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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To be fair, Marvel isn't the mishmash of different comic book companies nor did it perform continuity crazy stories like DC. Marvel just didn't need a reboot and thankfully, they had the common sense to not do that.

Frankly, I think DC is better off overall with a reboot.


But Marvel continuity was never a mess to begin with. They've been pretty damn consistent overall.


The best thing about Marvel NOW! is that their major titles (Hulk, Captain America, Thor, Iron Man) feel fresh and exciting now as opposed to before Marvel now where everything was feeling incredibly stale.
If you're a proper writer, it doesn't matter how ****ed continuity is, you can make a fresh and invigorating story that's still accessible to new readers.

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Old 12-02-2012, 10:06 PM   #106
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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If you're a proper writer, it doesn't matter how ****ed continuity is, you can make a fresh and invigorating story that's still accessible to new readers.
A great writer can do that, but you're still going to have ignorant readers who will still be put off by massive amounts of confusing continuity.

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Old 12-02-2012, 10:24 PM   #107
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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What would be some examples of weird pod people?
Aquaman, for one. Wonder Woman as well. Superman's borderline, but enough of what I love about him remains for me to be cool with it. Guy Gardner's killing people now with no qualms after Tomasi gave us a very important arc about him and Kyle refusing to kill after the Guardians unlocked the rings' ability to do so. Stuff like that.

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Old 12-03-2012, 06:20 AM   #108
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

Batman & Robin, Justice League Dark, Swamp Thing and Animal Man are the only DC Comics I read now.

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Old 12-03-2012, 07:58 AM   #109
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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Aquaman, for one. Wonder Woman as well. Superman's borderline, but enough of what I love about him remains for me to be cool with it. Guy Gardner's killing people now with no qualms after Tomasi gave us a very important arc about him and Kyle refusing to kill after the Guardians unlocked the rings' ability to do so. Stuff like that.
Aquaman is awesome and feels much in line with how he was in Brightest Day, Superman is more along the lines of who he was when he first came out, and I'm pretty sure that before the current GL comics, Guy has always been willing to kill, he's not a straight up murderer, but I think he's the one GL that was willing to do it as a last resort.

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Old 12-03-2012, 06:39 PM   #110
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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To be fair, Marvel isn't the mishmash of different comic book companies nor did it perform continuity crazy stories like DC. Marvel just didn't need a reboot and thankfully, they had the common sense to not do that.

Frankly, I think DC is better off overall with a reboot.


But Marvel continuity was never a mess to begin with. They've been pretty damn consistent overall.
I think Marvel is just more sneaky about it, really. They adjust continuity on the fly (see: Noh-Varr, now a teenager again?) and just let it be forgotten when appropriate. For example: Grey Goblin. Awful retcon that has was promptly ignored and never spoken of again. Problem solved.

DC's solution? Oh, we've changed our minds about whether Joe Chill killed the Waynes again--let's line that up for the next reboot. Haha.


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The best thing about Marvel NOW! is that their major titles (Hulk, Captain America, Thor, Iron Man) feel fresh and exciting now as opposed to before Marvel now where everything was feeling incredibly stale.
Yep. It was definitely time to end the runs of several of those creators--though some things could have been executed better. For example, there was absolutely no reason for Brubaker's run to continue into the post-Reborn relaunch of Captain America. Brubaker was incredible on Cap, but Reborn was the clear endpoint of his run. He should have transitioned onto Winter Soldier and someone else could have done some filler arcs until Marvel Now. Instead, Brubaker dialed in a couple of relatively tame and unimportant arcs in the Cap relaunch, only for the book to be relaunched again afterwords.

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Old 12-03-2012, 10:10 PM   #111
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

Several? I would say all of Marvel's major books with the exception of Amazing Spider-Man, were feeling horribly stale.

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Old 12-04-2012, 10:14 AM   #112
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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A great writer can do that, but you're still going to have ignorant readers who will still be put off by massive amounts of confusing continuity.
Yes, and what makes Marvel Now so good is that Marvel put all those great writers on their too books and have let them do their thing. Marvel Now's major titles feature names like Aaron and Waid and Hickman and Slott, etc.

With DC, you have Snyder and Lobdell and Milligan and artists who've never even written before.

C

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Old 12-04-2012, 03:59 PM   #113
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

Erm.... Grant Morrison?

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Old 12-04-2012, 04:42 PM   #114
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

Don't forget Jeff Lemire, who's so good I'm even going to be buying a freaking Green Arrow book because his name's on it.

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Old 12-04-2012, 05:39 PM   #115
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

And that Geoff Johns guy. I hear he's written an issue or two.

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:05 PM   #116
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

the azz

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:49 PM   #117
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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Aquaman is awesome and feels much in line with how he was in Brightest Day, Superman is more along the lines of who he was when he first came out, and I'm pretty sure that before the current GL comics, Guy has always been willing to kill, he's not a straight up murderer, but I think he's the one GL that was willing to do it as a last resort.
Aquaman feels grossly immature compared to how he was in the vastly superior Sub Diego era, although my reasons for dropping his comic are more to do with Johns' extreme decompression, terrible jokes, and cartoonish angst in every arc. Superman fighting for the little guy is nothing new, but Morrison kind of made him a douche toward the beginning of Action Comics. A chest-puffing alpha male who's ruled by emotion and never thinks anything through, basically. As for Guy, whichever interpretation you decide to go with, he's an irritating hypocrite now.

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:55 PM   #118
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

Sub Diego was indeed awesome, but the fact that it's hard to top the awesomeness of Sub Diego shouldn't be a detraction. Really, the only character that feels any bit radically different is Wonder Woman.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:27 PM   #119
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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Yes, and what makes Marvel Now so good is that Marvel put all those great writers on their too books and have let them do their thing. Marvel Now's major titles feature names like Aaron and Waid and Hickman and Slott, etc.

With DC, you have Snyder and Lobdell and Milligan and artists who've never even written before.

C
Snyder is awesome and has been writing on a number of series, including his own, for quite some time. I don't know where you're going with that.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:43 PM   #120
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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Erm.... Grant Morrison?
Both of Grant's runs are winding down. He hardly dictates the direction of the universe anymore. Hell, he doesn't even dictate the direction of the Superman books. Lobdell does that now.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:45 PM   #121
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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Don't forget Jeff Lemire, who's so good I'm even going to be buying a freaking Green Arrow book because his name's on it.
And what books does Lemire write? Nothing but second and third stringers. A writer of hid caliber sshould be on one of the big titles.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:47 PM   #122
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And that Geoff Johns guy. I hear he's written an issue or two.
I didn't list either Bendis or John's intentionally. Both are very divisive. And for good reason.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:48 PM   #123
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Default Re: DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

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Sub Diego was indeed awesome, but the fact that it's hard to top the awesomeness of Sub Diego shouldn't be a detraction. Really, the only character that feels any bit radically different is Wonder Woman.
I agree.

And let's face it, DC started trying to drastically change WW even before the New52 happened.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:50 PM   #124
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Snyder is awesome and has been writing on a number of series, including his own, for quite some time. I don't know where you're going with that.
Snyder's Batman is awful, and his Swamp Thing is rather mediocre as well.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:50 PM   #125
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Don't forget Jeff Lemire, who's so good I'm even going to be buying a freaking Green Arrow book because his name's on it.
And what books does Lemire write? Nothing but second and third stringers. A writer of hid caliber sshould be on one of the big titles.

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