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#726 | |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,573
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Lack of a Gotham POV is more of an issue than the Joker not being mentioned. |
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#727 |
Web Ninja
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,891
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Foley isn't called Deputy Commissioner in the dialogue in the film, but it's pretty obvious he's the next highest ranking official to Gordon from his role in the movie.
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#728 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,288
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The pressence of Gotham and the people of Gotham was sorely missed in this movie.
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#729 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,261
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I agree , another missing element to the movie was the Gotham city citizens pov.
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#730 |
away for a while
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Down Under
Posts: 31,172
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That's an argument I've never bought. Foley's only interest is in himself throughout the entire movie, and besides he's a high ranking cop, he doesn't have the perspective of the regular people.
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#731 | |
Hathaway #1
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 22,048
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"I'm going to do what Jim Gordon couldn't". Foley wants the glory. |
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#732 | ||
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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He isn't called Deputy Commissioner at all? Even if Foley is in a high-ranking position, if the title 'Deputy Commissioner' isn't even used than that's one complaint I don't have anymore as I never understood why that position is even given. I can just view Foley as a detective working under Gordon as we saw with Stephens, Ramirez and Wuertz in TDK. |
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#733 |
away for a while
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Down Under
Posts: 31,172
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Absolutely.
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#734 | |
Web Ninja
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,891
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#735 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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Since I was never into the virals though and if it's not in any dialogue on film, I will just picture Foley being a high ranking detective that worked closely with Gordon who would have just taken Gordon's place as Commissioner if he is ever fired or quit. Much better to think of as this way when I hate the title 'Deputy Commissioner' which wasn't even a position in BB or TDK. Gordon becomes Commissioner after Loeb dies, so obviously there wasn't such a position as DC in that film. |
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#736 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,735
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Non mentioning a character because the actor died is silly, the best way to honor a man is to keep his memory alive, not act like he never existed. Playing the joker was ledgers finest work as an actor, besides his daughter was his legacy.Good people die everyday, hell every second, but you cant just let their work die with them. I respect his decision, but he missed an opportunity.
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#737 |
Caballero de la Luz
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,479
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His work didn't die, it was done in TDK. In any case, bringing the Joker on this film would'nt feel right. It isn't designed that way, he is just a character too big. The isn't needed for the story to tell. Besides, as Joker said, the effects of his actions are felt on the film.
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A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a young boy's shoulders to let him know that the world hadn't ended. |
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#738 |
Superhero Psychiatrist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: GammaBase
Posts: 5,135
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Honestly, the way Nolan's handled the Joker sort of elevates it to that ghostly, force of nature character he wanted. No (official) behind the scenes material on Ledger and his preparation, no relevant backstory or knowledge of where he came from in TDK, and no information on where he's at in TDKR. He came, caused destruction, and literally disappeared. Make no mistake though, almost every important plot element in TDKR has his DNA written all over it.
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"I don't give a **** what you say. If I go out there and miss game winners, and people say, 'Kobe choked, or Kobe is seven for whatever in pressure situations,' Well, **** you. Because I don't play for your ******* approval. I play for my own love and enjoyment of the game. And to win. That's what I play for." - Kobe Bryant "As of right now, I don't know what he do good, cause what may work on another fighter is not gonna work on me." - Floyd Mayweather |
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#739 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 31,841
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The scene from THE DARK KNIGHT where the hostages are dressed like clowns? That happens in NO MAN'S LAND, and Foley shoots several of them before he can be brought down.
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"Perception is the enemy of reason." -Me |
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#740 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 685
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Foley: "Who do you wanna catch? Some robber or this son of a b**** who killed Harvey Dent?" Gordon: "I want him found" Foley: "Yeah, the masked man" Mayor: "It's just a training exercise" I could go on. Nolan gave us few regular joes because they never mattered. The characters of the movie represented something of Gotham. |
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#741 | |
away for a while
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Down Under
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#742 | ||
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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How else could they continue with Ledger's joker in TDKR? Any line or reference of Joker would only feel like a throwaway line to just keep him mentioned in Nolan's Batuniverse and that would only bring down this epic legacy of Ledger's Joker, imo. Best to keep the legacy alive only in the film Heath Ledger is actually in. And plus, the audience still at least is aware of Joker's doing and what he has done to Bruce Wayne in TDKR. Quote:
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#743 |
Caballero de la Luz
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,479
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I think this is because the different focus of the film. While The Dark Knight is an external exploration of Bruce Wayne and the consequences of his actions as Batman, Rises returns to the internal exploration that was present in Begins. The problem was that there was just too much story, and unlike in Begins, the point of view of the people is lacking. On the other hand, it serves a purpose in the film. The absence of people on the streets, the lack of a voice manage to convey that plausible fear that people in that kind of situation can have.
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A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a young boy's shoulders to let him know that the world hadn't ended. |
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#744 | ||||
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
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#745 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,288
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Sounds interesting. I would have much preferred they would have taken this route with the Dark Knight himself. Having him mope around for an 8 year hiatus is so blah. Since Nolan had taken elements from The Dark Knight Returns, I wish he would have examined what made that book so popular in the first place. It would have been great to have seen Batman, 8 years older, maybe more broken down, but more determined, more bitter and paranoid. That kind of Batman is something that I could truly see Bruce having to escape and get out before it became all too consuming.
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#746 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hell
Posts: 8,803
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Had the movie ended after the first Batman Vs. Bane fight, that would've been perfect.
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#747 |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,573
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After Foley's initial reaction to the bat symbol on the bridge, we could have easily got another 2-3 quick cuts of random Gothamites either in their homes or out in the streets looking up to it in disbelief while also feeling inspired. Really surprised we just got Foley's reaction.
Another one is when Gordon is on trial at the Kangaroo court. We should have had more Gothamites yelling at Gordon in disgust over the Dent cover up, also throwing things at him would have really added to the tension. Just those two things add a lot to the weight of those scenes. |
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#748 | |
Everything Under the Sun
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
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I hadn't thought about the spectators at Gordon's trial, but you bring up a good point, that would have made the scene more powerful. On that note, I'm disappointed the Dent cover up isn't brought up again after Blake reprimands Gordon for it. I know that that conversation is one of the things that leads to Blake abandoning the shackles of the rules, but I wanted to see more of a resolution with Gordon's arc about the cover up. |
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#749 | |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,573
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#750 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,597
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The only reason to show Gotham citizens more is the expectations set up by the first two films. On its own, TDKR did not need more citizen shots, there already are some weaved in there when needed, and never once was I wondering 'gee, I wonder how the people feel about this.' The answer was always conveyed in another, and frankly better, way.
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"No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle |
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