OFFICIAL Rate & Review the Amazing Spider-Man! - Part 1

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by moviedoors

Because the scene was so overwhelming contrived and stupid. That scene could not have worked less well for me.


And it's clear in that movie. I'm not a huge fan of that one, but I at least knew who Norman Osborne was and what he wanted from moment to moment. I was confused by the Lizard because pre-Lizard, he's such a cipher. There was no character there. Nothing. Not to mention, when he's the Lizard, he's just a rote bad guy. He may as well have had a mustache to twirl. A completely dimensionless villain. The Lizard had one (1) moment I liked: when he made an on-the-fly explosive mixture in the chemistry classroom. I thought that was clever.

----

The more this one settles in, the more I think it was nearly as bad as Green Lantern. And I was rooting for this one.

We know who Connors was, and what he wanted. What wasn't clear?

Oh wow, I think that's going too far. Haven't heard that comparison since "Real Iron Man" gave his reaction. But to each his own. You're entitled to your opinion. So I'm guessing you liked Spider-Man 3 more than The Amazing Spider-Man?

[moviedoors]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

We know who Connors was, and what he wanted. What wasn't clear?

Everything. I have no idea who that man was other than "I miss ma' arm!" and that doesn't cut it.

So I'm guessing you liked Spider-Man 3 more than The Amazing Spider-Man?

Didn't care for it either and I cant really remember it all that well now. I don't care to qualify them against one another.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by moviedoors

Everything. I have no idea who that man was other than "I miss ma' arm!" and that doesn't cut it.


Didn't care for it either and I cant really remember it all that well now. I don't care to qualify them against one another.

He was missing an arm, and that motivated him to work on cross-species genetics with Richard Parker. Of course, he really wanted to get his own arm back, and help everyone else with similar disabilities. After taking the serum, his plan to cure weaknesses was altered, even exaggerated, and this is where the film does fall flat, because they don't explain it enough. The serum pretty much turned him insane, giving him that "dual personality." But either way, we do know what he wants, and that is made clear... to turn everyone into Lizards. The Green Goblin just wanted Spider-Man on his side, and to kill "countless innocents again and again" until they were both dead.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by moviedoors

Everything. I have no idea who that man was other than "I miss ma' arm!" and that doesn't cut it.

What did we know about Norman other than that he was about to lose his job and then went on a killing spree and power trip? We might not learn much about Connor's personal life, but we learn what kind of person he is. That he dreams of becoming complete again and to help others just like him. But no matter how much he wants his arm back, he refuses to experiment on people because the procedure isn't safe enough yet. So we know about his morals as well.

He experiments on himself and loses his mind to the Lizard. In a twisted way, he tries to help the people of the city, because he realizes how much the serum improves him, making him immune to disease and injuries. It's a gift to be shared with mankind.

Maybe he didn't get the best character development and it's a damn shame they didn't use his family in the Movie, but even then I think he was better handled than Norman Osborn. Both had a very similar arc. Two scientists who were about to lose everything and experimented on themselves in a last ditch effort. But with Connor's I got a better sense of his goals and motivation. Norman was just nuts and wanted to rule the city, without really delving into how he was going to accomplish that. Blow up anyone in his way?

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Nathan

What did we know about Norman other than that he was about to lose his job and then went on a killing spree and power trip? We might not learn much about Connor's personal life, but we learn what kind of person he is. That he dreams of becoming complete again and to help others just like him. But no matter how much he wants his arm back, he refuses to experiment on people because the procedure isn't safe enough yet. So we know about his morals as well.

He experiments on himself and loses his mind to the Lizard. In a twisted way, he tries to help the people of the city, because he realizes how much the serum improves him, making him immune to disease and injuries. It's a gift to be shared with mankind.

Maybe he didn't get the best character development and it's a damn shame they didn't use his family in the Movie, but even then I think he was better handled than Norman Osborn. Both had a very similar arc. Two scientists who were about to lose everything and experimented on themselves in a last ditch effort. But with Connor's I got a better sense of his goals and motivation. Norman was just nuts and wanted to rule the city, without really delving into how he was going to accomplish that. Blow up anyone in his way?

[moviedoors]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

He was missing an arm, and that motivated him to work on cross-species genetics with Richard Parker. Of course, he really wanted to get his own arm back, and help everyone else with similar disabilities. After taking the serum, his plan to cure weaknesses was altered, even exaggerated, and this is where the film does fall flat, because they don't explain it enough. The serum pretty much turned him insane, giving him that "dual personality." But either way, we do know what he wants, and that is made clear... to turn everyone into Lizards. The Green Goblin just wanted Spider-Man on his side, and to kill "countless innocents again and again" until they were both dead.

No, that's what he wants to do. It's not clear why he wants this beyond the most rote, one dimensional, comic book movie screenwriting playbook cliches. It's Magneto's plan from the first X-Men but without the pathos.

[Nathan]

Hey, whatever, as long as you realize what you complain about was in no way better in the first Spider-Man movie. You complain about playbook cliches and mustache twirling? You might as well give every villain from the previous Trilogy a mustache.

[Picard Sisko]

Lots of movies now are cliche. Heck, even the Avengers was cliche... New York City getting attacked? Its been done how many times?

EDIT: Also, as someone mentioned earlier, Lizard's planned could be compared to Magneto's in X-Men 1, to turn everyone into mutants. Not only did Connors go crazy once he turned, but he had felt superior to human beings, considering how much more he could do physically.

[Anno_Domini]

While the plans could, I guess, be looked as similar, Magneto was way better of a villain.

[Oscorp]

I'd have liked to see Connors struggle more with only having one arm. The two mirror scenes were great but I'd want even more. I'd want to see scenarios where Connors really feels handicapped and frustrated.

[Anno_Domini]

Ontop of that, I would've liked to see more of an emotional scene when Curt saw his new arm. It didn't pack that emotion that we saw in Raimi's trilogy when we needed to see emotional scenes from villains.

[mayo23]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Maybe he didn't get the best character development and it's a damn shame they didn't use his family in the Movie, but even then I think he was better handled than Norman Osborn. Both had a very similar arc. Two scientists who were about to lose everything and experimented on themselves in a last ditch effort. But with Connor's I got a better sense of his goals and motivation. Norman was just nuts and wanted to rule the city, without really delving into how he was going to accomplish that. Blow up anyone in his way?

Norman in SM1 quickly lost any real sense of motivation for what he was trying to accomplish after frying the military guys. After that, it was merely him trying to kill Spider-man for denying his invitation to team up, while also terrorizing the city.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

While the plans could, I guess, be looked as similar, Magneto was way better of a villain.

The plans are very similar. If anything, Lizard came closer to accomplishing his plan, but I do agree, Magneto was a better movie villain. However, I think the first X-Men film was good, it also lacked a lot of character development. Other than Wolverine, Rogue, Magneto, and Jean Grey, most of the characters were just there. So some of the criticisms of TASM's Lizard can be applied to many characters in the X-Men films.

Originally Posted by Oscorp

I'd have liked to see Connors struggle more with only having one arm. The two mirror scenes were great but I'd want even more. I'd want to see scenarios where Connors really feels handicapped and frustrated.

I think it has a lot to do with them choosing such a complex villain for an origin story. He was, IMO, on par with Scarecrow in Batman Begins. However, there really isn't that much to tell with Scarecrow, and he didn't make too many appearances in the comics to begin with, so there wasn't any wasted potential. Lizard has the potential to be one of the top comic book movie villains.

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Ontop of that, I would've liked to see more of an emotional scene when Curt saw his new arm. It didn't pack that emotion that we saw in Raimi's trilogy when we needed to see emotional scenes from villains.

^Same response as mine to Oscorp's post.

Originally Posted by mayo23

Norman in SM1 quickly lost any real sense of motivation for what he was trying to accomplish after frying the military guys. After that, it was merely him trying to kill Spider-man for denying his invitation to team up, while also terrorizing the city.

That we know, and once again, I think they made it clear what Lizard wanted.

[Picard Sisko]

I think that now the origin has been told, they can focus on just making a Spider-Man film, and concentrating more on fleshing out the villain, too. Same with what happened in The Dark Knight I suppose.

[spidermanJLA!~]

I think Norman's personality got in the way though. He really wanted to try this formula regardless of the side effects. Dr. Ratha was the one who told Connors to start human trials.

[Picard Sisko]

So I mentioned earlier that there was one scene I hate, and that is Peter telling Captain Stacey about Connors being the Lizard. I think I stand by that one being the only scene I hate, though if I had to name other scenes I dislike:

-Peter running in the hallways without his mask
-Peter letting the SWAT team unmask him and then showing a whole crowd of people what he looks like.
-First person shots: in the teaser, it looked awesome. But then in the final cut, they chopped up the scene, and added a few others throughout the rest of the film. It wasn't bad, but it was pointless. I think they will probably forget about these shots for the sequels.

These scenes don't ruin the film for me, but if I had to nitpick, these were the ones that bothered me.

[Smegger56]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

I think that now the origin has been told, they can focus on just making a Spider-Man film, and concentrating more on fleshing out the villain, too. Same with what happened in The Dark Knight I suppose.

Sorry PS, but what does that mean? So what was TASM? Whenever I read that, from pro TASM to con TASM peeps, I always think 'Then what the hell did I just watch? TASM wasn't a spidey film?'

They made a spidey film, that focused on his origin. I suppose SM1 wasn't a spidey film then, but SM2 they could focus on making a spidey film.

Sorry, it's a real annoyance that comment. Don't mean to be rude bud, just a real peev lol

Btw, love you new avatar. So excited for that

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

So I mentioned earlier that there was one scene I hate, and that is Peter telling Captain Stacey about Connors being the Lizard. I think I stand by that one being the only scene I hate, though if I had to name other scenes I dislike:

-Peter running in the hallways without his mask
-Peter letting the SWAT team unmask him and then showing a whole crowd of people what he looks like.
-First person shots: in the teaser, it looked awesome. But then in the final cut, they chopped up the scene, and added a few others throughout the rest of the film. It wasn't bad, but it was pointless. I think they will probably forget about these shots for the sequels.

These scenes don't ruin the film for me, but if I had to nitpick, these were the ones that bothered me.

I agree the way that they way they did that scene wasn't great. Really, they could have had him as Spidey confront Stacey, trying to convince him that Connors is the Lizard and that something needs to be done. That could have been a good spidey/stacey moment. Oh well.

The letting the swat team unmask him... I think he was still dazed/unconscious at this point. It wasn't until he was unmasked that his senses kicked in and he woke. It was similar to the train scene with the guy and the beer. And they didn't see his face. He kept his head down at most times and moved very fast. And the crowd where far away to see his face. I actuall loved that scene personally

Running in the hallways without the mask... I've no real view on that to be honest.

I do agree that the POV shots got too choppy. But I still though they where ok. The one from the trailer though should have been kept whole. The rest I get why they where choppy. But that first one should have stayed whole.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

-Peter running in the hallways without his mask

That annoyed me too, but there was a reason for that, which got sadly cut. A whole scene where Connor's transforms back and asks for Peter's help. Without that scene, Peter running around without a mask seemed stupid.

-Peter letting the SWAT team unmask him and then showing a whole crowd of people what he looks like.

That I didn't have a problem with at all, because no one other than Captain Stacy got a clear look at him. He moved too fast for the SWAT team and the bystanders were too far away. I liked that scene because it added some urgency. His mask was off and he had to take everyone down quickly, before they could get a good look at his face.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Nathan

That annoyed me too, but there was a reason for that, which got sadly cut. A whole scene where Connor's transforms back and asks for Peter's help. Without that scene, Peter running around without a mask seemed stupid.

That I didn't have a problem with at all, because no one other than Captain Stacy got a clear look at him. He moved too fast for the SWAT team and the bystanders were too far away. I liked that scene because it added some urgency. His mask was off and he had to take everyone down quickly, before they could get a good look at his face.

It wasn't until the end of the scene that bothered me, when the helicopter is shining the bright light over him. I'm sure some of the SWAT team members got a look at him.

Originally Posted by Smegger56

Sorry PS, but what does that mean? So what was TASM? Whenever I read that, from pro TASM to con TASM peeps, I always think 'Then what the hell did I just watch? TASM wasn't a spidey film?'

They made a spidey film, that focused on his origin. I suppose SM1 wasn't a spidey film then, but SM2 they could focus on making a spidey film.

Sorry, it's a real annoyance that comment. Don't mean to be rude bud, just a real peev lol

What I mean is that this movie is retelling an origin story we've seen already, and now with the sequel, they can just focus on just making a story without the origin taking up an hour of the film. Sorry, I didn't really explain it too well.

Btw, love you new avatar. So excited for that

Thank you! Part of me dislikes the JJ Abrams Trek as a long time Trekkie, but at the same time he has done a great job bringing the franchise back to life. I can't wait to see the trailer tomorrow!!!

I do agree that the POV shots got too choppy. But I still though they where ok. The one from the trailer though should have been kept whole. The rest I get why they where choppy. But that first one should have stayed whole.

Agreed 100%. Other than the CGI, that scene would have been perfect. The idea of having first person perspective shots could have been like an iconic feature of the series. But I think they will probably just cut those out entirely from the sequels.

[Fox]

I've just posted the last major entry into my Spider-movie-blog-review series, for those who have been following/care to check it out.

http://fenskeland.blogspot.ca/2012/1...ial-stand.html

[Picard Sisko]

I really like the description of Raimi's Spider-Man film (2002):

In 'Spider-man' (2002) Peter is fast-tracked into becoming the fully prepared superhero by the end of the film. Raimi did leave open a couple characterization points for a potential sequel, but there was an understanding that "if, for some reason, we don't get to make a 'part 2' then you should know that we've covered most of the major beats in Spidey's journey as a character." Sure the sequels threw some new dilemmas, moral or otherwise, at the character but for the MOST part the man he becomes by the end of the first film is who he continues to be throughout the sequels. His relationship status changes, and he goes through a couple patchy areas that test his convictions, but you could rest assured that by the end of each film he would be back to his crime-busting-web-slinging-super-responsible self.

Its a solid film on its own, that's for sure. I appreciate the film for being so, but at the same time, they really didn't plan for future sequels other than the Harry Osborn story. I think with TASM, they really have a story that can develop over the course of three films.

Raimi's first film didn't really leave itself anywhere to go. By the end Peter had...

- Graduated high school? Check.
- Come into his own as a superhero with a competent handle on his powers? Check.
- Established a clear sense of purpose with all his priorities about responsibility in order? Check.
- Successfully faced off and defeated his first major villain in life or death battle? Check.


TASM leaves me wanting more, and that's a good thing!

Although I think you rated the 2002 film too low, and my personal rating for TASM is 8.5/10, I really appreciate what you say about TASM and agree with almost everything you say. Thank you so much for posting this. Just so everyone can see:

"THE PLOT (LOOSE ENDS?)
As I said, part of Spider-man's appeal is that his adventures come in a long string or serial formatting. From the get go 'The Amazing Spider-man' is made with building to a sequel in mind, but that doesn't mean that the film makers have free reign to do whatever they want. TASM is still a single film, and seeing as it's not going to be releasing a second installment for a couple years (as opposed to a weekly tv series) the film needs to be at LEAST coherent and self-contained enough to deal with all of the major themes specific to THIS film. In regards to this consideration there is ONE point of contention for many viewers; the mystery of Peter Parker's parents.

WHY PEOPLE FEEL IT'S A PROBLEM:
The film starts by introducing Peter's parents showing the circumstances that lead to their eventual disappearance. From there we follow Peter's investigation into the truth behind the mystery, which of course leads to his becoming a Superhero and his confrontation with the Lizard. The problem is that once the plot with the Lizard gets underway the topic of Peter's parents is effectively dropped from the film and never brought up again. How annoying is that? Clearly these guys couldn't settle on which story they wanted the film to focus on. Idiots.

OR...
But, in this very way, it does what a series opener is SUPPOSED to do. First It cleverly incorporates the disappearance of Peter's parents, the origin of his powers, the death of his uncle, and his first major battle, into ONE massive 'coming-of-age' arc about Peter. Instead of trying to copy the comics (like Raimi's films) and have all of these events be separate occurrences that each happen to the same character, they coherently brought them together into one film, and presented it as a single story. ALL the while staying true to the characters and the spirit of source material.

As for unresolved threads there is only really one. Many had an issue with Peter not catching Ben's killer, but (as I pointed out in 'origin vs. adaptation') that change is not only resolved, but actually improved (in my opinion). The only major unresolved thread is about Peter's Parents. I never had a problem with it because from the very beginning it had the makings of a 'larger arc story.' And for those who complain that 'the subject was randomly dropped part way through the movie'; Webb was very careful to leave one final after-the-credits scene to remind us that he hadn't forgotten. Again, this is how a series works; by leaving us with enough room to grown into something even better."

This explains it all. Words taken right out of my mouth. I am actually bookmarking this to show to some of my friends who love the film. They mentioned the points about "unresolved" plots to me, as everyone else has, but have often said it makes them look forward to the sequels even more.

[Anno_Domini]

In the middle of watching TAS-M as my gf rented it and I still say the first fifty minutes is my favorite part of the entire film. And that's why I'm on my phone right now during Peter's dinner with the Stacys. Fifty minutes and under = amazing. Quite ironically, during that time it doesn't feel like it's been edited at all while everything feels heavily edited.

[Picard Sisko]

The dinner scene is one of the best scenes in the movie IMO.

[Anno_Domini]

Not really, lol.

Once Peter puts on the suit, the movie goes downhill, imo.

I think I'm done with CBMs for a little while though. After TAS-M, we watched TDKR again and earlier this week I saw the entire DK trilogy as well...I'm calling it quits for a while with CBMs. I'll probably start into Lord of the Rings again for the rest of December before I watch Hobbit and after.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Not really, lol.

Once Peter puts on the suit, the movie goes downhill, imo.

Hey, to each his own. I love the dinner scene. Although it can be argued that most origin films go downhill after the protagonist finally becomes the superhero, I think TASM gets better after he puts on the costume

I think I'm done with CBMs for a little while though. After TAS-M, we watched TDKR again and earlier this week I saw the entire DK trilogy as well...I'm calling it quits for a while with CBMs. I'll probably start into Lord of the Rings again for the rest of December before I watch Hobbit and after.

I don't think I'll ever be done with CBMs. Though right now my current movie to look forward to is Star Trek Into Darkness.