Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfect?

[batfreakforever]

I've watched this film countless times now and each time never gets dull. Fantastic film. Love everything in this film. Never thought I'd get a Bat trilogy like this after Batman & Robin (not as bad as people make it out to be but it was the first batfilm I seen at the cinemas) wow just wow. I don't have a favorite Bat film it just depends on what mood im in. Hopefully the next director(s) have something different to tell about Batman & his universe. Nolans films are a complete story so thats great for me. Never thought I'd say ''hey lets watch the dark knight trilogy'' tonight.

[Doc Samson]

Originally Posted by jmc

The issue you bring up here is probably where a lot of the problems people like me have with the film - how its stand on its own. Films one and two are almost two completely different movie universes linked together by the underlying thread of getting Gotham City back on its feet. The beauty is film two doesn't rely on film one to tell its story, it could easily have been the launching point for a franchise as opposed to a follow up film. TDK works because it's its own thing entirely and is more of a compliment to Begins than a direct sequel. The downfall of Rises is that it relies too heavily on film one for its narrative, not only making it a weak stand alone movie, but creating this weird situation where it's more of a sequel to the first movie than what film two is. And the biggest issue is it doesn't even complete the task the Bruce sets out to do in getting Gotham back on its feet, if anything its worse off by the end of film three. TDK is now the odd child out in this whole story, it's not Bruce Wayne story it's Harvey Dent's, there are no links to the LoS or the events of film one, and it's the one that's treated far more realistic than the other two. It baffles me how instead of following that same path Nolan chose to unnecessarily drag back in elements that didn't need revisiting as the foundations for film three.

Respect your view, but I tend to disagree. Bruce leaves Gotham in the perfect state, because it's essentially destroyed. It's infrastructure, which for so long was dominated by organized crime, then further crippled by his own meddling, is decimated and totally obliterated. Gotham has no choice but to rebuild, and with the events of the past decade, not to mention a more reliable Commissioner & a "silent guardian" already in place, is in a much better spot to begin the healing process and restructuring the right way. From the ground up.

As far as relying on narrative, I think the notion that TDK has nothing to do with TDKR is a bit off base. The whole premise of where Bruce is personally is a direct result of the aftermath of TDK. Everything Wayne has to overcome in TDKR stems from everything he lost prior in TDK. The character elements, as far as Bane & Talia go, derive from BB, but the thematic & more importantly, personal struggle of Bruce Wayne is all from TDK.

[CrypticOne]

Just got done watching it. The second time I've seen it. And I would have to agree to a certain extent that TDKR does prevent this trilogy from being perfect. But like in life, and what has been stated already, nothing is perfect.

I feel like this film was rushed. I feel like the pacing is off. And that it skips around too much. It just felt like things were happening too fast. This is a movie in which they should have split it in to two parts. Like what they're doing with everything else nowadays. Where exactly is the prison located at in the world? This movie makes it feel like its only in the next city.

Catwoman didn't feel right to me, in this. I don't know what it is. I thought a second viewing would make me appreciate Catwoman more, but it didn't. It seems like they just added her to get from point A to point B more quickly. It feels like they were just tired of explaining stuff and wanted to get this movie done as fast as humanly possible. I never felt a connection with Catwoman. Her and Bruce's scenes just felt a little silly to me. She betrayed Batman REAL quick! And then is back on his side at the end? She seemed weak to me. Doing anything just to benefit herself. I didn't like her mocking tone, "I'd do more than any of you rich people would." And then, "I'm saving myself. Come with me." She just felt like a crybaby. It felt like the writers didn't know what the hell to do with her. They just all added ingredients in hoping the stew would turn out good. It looked good!

Don't get me wrong, I do think this film is good. It just has a couple of dents in it. I loved Bane. I felt like he was the perfect villain. Even up to Talia's reveal. Seeing those flashback scenes with him rescuing Talia just lifted my spirit. The way he destroys Bruce in that first fight is amazing and took my breath away. This dude was a force. I had this dream, a couple of months before TDKR was released. It was of Bane and Batman fighting on top of the train that Ra's and Batman were fighting in, while the city was being destroyed around them. Bane's plan to destroy Gotham succeeded. In the same way Ra's destroyed Bruce's house. Gotham needed to be rebuilt, in the same way Bruce had to rebuild his house. I wish I didn't have that dream. It was perfect. I wish we could record our dreams and upload them onto the internet. Like all selfish human beings I felt like my dream would come true.

Side note: Talia's death scene. What was up with that? It took me out of the film for a second.

I know in the end, this isn't my movie. Its Nolan's. I was even telling myself that while I was sitting here watching it. I'm not upset. Like every movie that gets judged this one is no different. But let me ask you this, when you seen Begins and TDK, for the very first time, what did you feel? I felt like Nolan could do nothing wrong. I felt like electricity was pumping into my heart instead of blood. And there are only hints of that when I watched TDKR.

This sure was one hell of a journey. And I am glad that I got to experience it. These movies mean so much to me. I love them. There is darkness in this world. And these movies give me hope. All three of them. This is a trilogy we all will look back on and know its impact. And what it did for us. We can say, "I was there." I remember walking to the theater at night when TDK had its run in theaters. When I was feeling down on life, I'd go see that movie and know it would take away any pain I was feeling. Any sadness in my heart would be numb for awhile.

Like I said in the beginning, "I would have to agree to a certain extent that TDKR does prevent this trilogy from being perfect." Because I do think, if anything comes close to being perfect, this trilogy is it. I'm going to miss discussing a new Nolan Batman film with all of you. It was good times. And I still have good times on here. The Nolan Batman films are what made me join this forum. So I thank all of you for listening to me ramble on. I'll see you guys later.

[lordofthenerds]

Originally Posted by MAKAVELI25

Discuss

I actually think Batman Begins was the weakest of the three. Don't get me wrong, it was still a good movie, but it was the least memorable. It was the slowest paced of the three and the least consistent in its narrative. As the movie progressed, it gradually got less and less interesting. Hell, the most interesting part of the movie was set in Nepal before Bruce became Batman. It had the most lines that were cringeworthy and the weakest villains. The microwave emitter was pure movie science too. Plus, the climax was a rip off of '89.

[Jaiden Edo]

In my opinion, It is on par with the dark knight. Begins, still pretty great. However it's the first movie of the trilogy, so it doesn't need to be the best. Dark Knight was more fun to me, while Rises was more emotional. Depends what mood I'm in. If I'm feeling down and need cheering up, I'll watch the Dark Knight. Rises just makes me feel sad, after I watch it.

[Schlosser85]

Originally Posted by lordofthenerds

I actually think Batman Begins was the weakest of the three. Don't get me wrong, it was still a good movie, but it was the least memorable. It was the slowest paced of the three and the least consistent in its narrative. As the movie progressed, it gradually got less and less interesting. Hell, the most interesting part of the movie was set in Nepal before Bruce became Batman. It had the most lines that were cringeworthy and the weakest villains. The microwave emitter was pure movie science too. Plus, the climax was a rip off of '89.

I agree with this. It has great moments, but the climax is cheesy, it has the most cringe-worthy one-liners, and Ra's and Scarecrow are the weakest villains (mostly because they're so underused, while Joker and Bane get much more screentime).

Joker has no competition though, IMO, for most memorable villain of the trilogy.

[TheGuy]

Originally Posted by lordofthenerds

I actually think Batman Begins was the weakest of the three. Don't get me wrong, it was still a good movie, but it was the least memorable. It was the slowest paced of the three and the least consistent in its narrative. As the movie progressed, it gradually got less and less interesting. Hell, the most interesting part of the movie was set in Nepal before Bruce became Batman. It had the most lines that were cringeworthy and the weakest villains. The microwave emitter was pure movie science too. Plus, the climax was a rip off of '89.

I've seen BB recently, and it has lessened in my eyes. Microwave emitter was your typical plot device. It vaporizes water under metal pipes but doesn't do so to humans? Rachel wasn't terribly written as I remembered, but Katie is still awful. The trio's arc in TDK and Bruce's arc in TDKR were both better than Bruce's arc in BB. I would have preferred a real world location for the Narrows. Bane, Two-Face, Talia, and Joker were better villains than Ra's and Scarecrow. And technically, it's also the least impressive. TDK and TDKR were better in all categories.

[Sgt. Fury]

I was very disappointed with Rises. To me it really wasn't on a par with the other two movies.

[Anno_Domini]

I can't wait to get the Ultimate Edition of the trilogy next year. I've already seen the movies in a marathon style as well as TDKR by itself three other times this past week and it's still a 10/10 for me.

[TDK elbowstrike]

I think Begins still holds up after all this time. And Begins made it cool to quote superhero movies again.

There was a time when superhero movies had some pretty weak, dated, and downright silly dialog. Then along comes BB and all of a sudden there were these cool one liners from Morgan Freelman' Fox. Michael Cains Alfred was funny but could be absolutely chillingly emotional and with this ominous air of things to come and wisdom.

And Neesons conveyed Ras al Ghuls dogmatic views and strict presence on screen perfectly.
Watching TDKR and seeing Marion slow knife Batman in the back and then thinking back to BB; hearing Ras al Ghuls line " If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart" makes it hard to argue that one movie makes the rest of the trilogy suffer as a whole; they're all so connected.

[TheBat812]

Originally Posted by Schlosser85

I agree with this. It has great moments, but the climax is cheesy, it has the most cringe-worthy one-liners, and Ra's and Scarecrow are the weakest villains (mostly because they're so underused, while Joker and Bane get much more screentime).

Joker has no competition though, IMO, for most memorable villain of the trilogy.

I've found myself loving Bane every bit as much as Joker, especially since coming out on Bluray. Hardy's performance is just as incredible as Heath's, imo. Neither depiction was the obvious choice, but now I couldn't imagine either in any other way. Also, the theatricality of both villains is quite incredible in contrast to Ra's, which was almost the opposite.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Fury

I was very disappointed with Rises. To me it really wasn't on a par with the other two movies.

I'm the same. When I watch Rises it makes me appreciate the first two movies even more for being better made movies.

Originally Posted by TDK elbowstrike

I think Begins still holds up after all this time. And Begins made it cool to quote superhero movies again.

People were quoting the Spider-Man and X-Men movies long before Batman Begins ever came out.

[Greens]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I can't wait to get the Ultimate Edition of the trilogy next year. I've already seen the movies in a marathon style as well as TDKR by itself three other times this past week and it's still a 10/10 for me.

I can't wait to see what makes the ultimate edition the ULTIMATE edition.

[Anno_Domini]

Probably Nolan commentating all three films, lol.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Fury

I was very disappointed with Rises. To me it really wasn't on a par with the other two movies.

And the trend continues.

[Agent Orange]

There's no trend.

[Fudgie]

Yup there is. Can't swing a stick on the net without finding packs of people saying it was a letdown or it sucked.

Ya would have to be under a rock to miss it.

[Anno_Domini]

There seems to be a trend on who's showing up in Top Ten lists as well

[Fudgie]

Are they top ten lists voted by thousands of people?

[BatLobsterRises]

My boss just watched it for the first time this weekend and texted me that he was blown away.

The "trend" with the non-fanboy crowd is overwhelmingly positive.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Yup there is. Can't swing a stick on the net without finding packs of people saying it was a letdown or it sucked.

Ya would have to be under a rock to miss it.

Hah!! I'm going to assume that you aren't familiar with the TDK hatred that permeated the internet post-July 2008. That film gets criticized on every damn forum on the internet as well. It means absolutely nothing.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Hah!! I'm going to assume that you aren't familiar with the TDK hatred that permeated the internet post-July 2008. That film gets criticized on every damn forum on the internet as well. It means absolutely nothing.

Hah! I'm going to assume that you're being hyperbolic about the so called TDK hatred. The net was was orgasmic over TDK. The haters were a minority.

We didn't have all the complaints Rises has. I just saw ya moaning about all the haters over at CBM. We never had that kind of thing in '08.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Hah! I'm going to assume that you're being hyperbolic about the so called TDK hatred. The net was was orgasmic over TDK. The haters were a minority.

We didn't have all the complaints Rises has. I just saw ya moaning about all the haters over at CBM. We never had that kind of thing in '08.

Hah! I'm going to assume that you've just been lurking on or posting on SHH. If you went to (or go to) any other forum you'd see very quickly that distaste for Nolan's vision has been brewing for a long time. "Ledger's the only good thing about it." "It's ponderous and boring." "Nolan takes his 'realism' far too seriously. Batman's supposed to be fun!" "There are plotholes all over the place! The Joker justs appears out of nowhere throughout the movie and magically plants bombs! He's JESUS JOKER!"

The Dark Knight got too popular and popularity always equals apathy or worse on the internet.

[Agent Orange]

CBM.com is irrelevant. They seem to worship the new crop of Marvel films and don't have time for anything else.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Hah! I'm going to assume that you've just been lurking on or posting on SHH. If you went to (or go to) any other forum you'd see very quickly that distaste for Nolan's vision has been brewing for a long time. "Ledger's the only good thing about it." "It's ponderous and boring." "Nolan takes his 'realism' far too seriously. Batman's supposed to be fun!" "There are plotholes all over the place! The Joker justs appears out of nowhere throughout the movie and magically plants bombs! He's JESUS JOKER!"

The Dark Knight got too popular and popularity always equals apathy or worse on the internet.

I feel like singing Cartman's minorities song when I read that heh. I was reading here, IMDB, CBR, CBM, Yahoo, RT and lots more places.

Those complainers were tiny little ants in a swarm of TDK lovers.

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

CBM.com is irrelevant. They seem to worship the new crop of Marvel films and don't have time for anything else.

Yeah sure they are. Any website that has lots of Rises haters must be irrelevant. There goes half the net then heh.