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View Poll Results: Which villain
Mr. Freeze 39 16.25%
Joker 5 2.08%
Riddler 70 29.17%
Penguin 10 4.17%
Clayface 16 6.67%
Mad Hatter 4 1.67%
Hugo Strange 34 14.17%
Poison Ivy 8 3.33%
Two Face 6 2.50%
Killer Croc 15 6.25%
The League Of Assasins 1 0.42%
The Court Of Owls 19 7.92%
Dollmaker 0 0%
Catwoman 1 0.42%
Other 12 5.00%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-05-2012, 03:58 PM   #26
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Penguin and Riddler really haven't been done well at all since Batman 1960 with Adam West. Get someone to get something in line with the Burgess Meredith and Frank Gorshin version on the big screen and you could have a great film.

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:08 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
It's nothing to do with it not being done yet. We haven't had Killer Croc, The Ventriloquist and Scarface, Black Mask etc yet either, but I could envision them in a Batman trilogy.

The Joker is Batman's most popular and number one enemy. Aside from the fans wanting him, WB knows he's a cash cow that brings in audiences.
Ehh, I still believe a trilogy can work without Joker. Needless to say, while Joker is a cash cow, TDKR did make more than TDK, so anything can be a cash cow given if the film is good enough.

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:09 PM   #28
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Well you can't say Jim Carrey Riddler was completely off, he paid tribute to the Frank Gorshin version of the charecter which wasnt off either. its one way to look at the Riddler not the only way but one way. Penguin was crap, i love Burgess Meredith as an actor but overacting isn't always fun and Tim Burton sodomized the Penguin in Batman Returns (enjoyable film to watch on Christmas but the characters were raped).

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:18 PM   #29
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I dont see the reboot as a trilogy, i see it continuing like the Bond franchise. We could very well get a half dozen movies into the next decade. Different directors, same tone, same continuity. Anything is possible but i dont think they should just settle for a trilogy like Nolan.

Joker appearing within the next few films is a mistake imo. Maybe movie #3 he could be introduced with Harley Quinn. But i say bring him into the next universe (he has to be a part of it) after a few films.

Carrey payed homage to Gorshin so i kind of disagree that it hasnt been done well since the 60s. We just need a very different take on the character this time around.

Penguin hasn't been done well at all. We havent seen the dark, serious, sinister Oswald Cobblepot who is a mob boss but a very classy mob boss.

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:32 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Ehh, I still believe a trilogy can work without Joker.
I'm sure you do. I'm sure it could "work", too. But would it be as good as it could be without Batman's arch enemy?

I doubt it.

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Needless to say, while Joker is a cash cow, TDKR did make more than TDK, so anything can be a cash cow given if the film is good enough.
And how many bums do you think were put in seats because of Nolan's rep after TDK? Having The Dark Knight in title again was a marketing strategy by itself.

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:32 PM   #31
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Classy and sane, the Penguin isn't psychotic, he is very smart, a smart buisness man.

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:37 PM   #32
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Hell yeah!

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:48 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
I'm sure you do. I'm sure it could "work", too. But would it be as good as it could be without Batman's arch enemy?

I doubt it.
Could it be as good without Joker involved anywhere in said trilogy? I believe so.

Quote:
And how many bums do you think were put in seats because of Nolan's rep after TDK? Having The Dark Knight in title again was a marketing strategy by itself.
Shouldn't Nolan's rep be solely on Nolan's rep and not just because of Joker, though?

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Old 12-05-2012, 05:07 PM   #34
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I have a feeling that the Riddler will be the next primary advesary for the reboot and I'm perfectly fine with that just as long as he's written brilliantly. I want he and Batman to engage in a game of cat and mouse,full of twists and turns that will make even the general audience who aren't die hard Batman fans to want to see it more than once just to see what they missed the first time.I think possibly Hugo Strange could fit that role just as well but I'm afraid WB wouldn't feel he's quite a "headliner" villain to start the new franchise with.

As for the Joker,I've said it several times in my posts over the last few months that the next time we see him,it would be a flashback of him killing Jason Todd.

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Old 12-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #35
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Freeze. Because he's awesome, that's why.
That, and Freeze needs to be reinvented for the movie audience. No more puns, no more foreign accents, no more levity. I want the Freeze from that old animated movie. Victor needs to be cold (accidental pun, I apologize profusely), apathetic, constantly in mourning, and a genius that can test even The World's Greatest Detective as he's never been tested before on-screen.

I do agree that the Riddler would be a fantastic idea, and I'd love to see him in the trilogy, but maybe not until the 2nd movie. Both the Riddler and Two- Face need to star in a movie (being in the last half hour as a second fiddle doesn't count, imo), and a more comic-faithful Scarecrow would be fantastic. Batman Begins had an awesome Scarecrow, but it had too many balls to juggle, what with the origin story, Marconi, and Ra's al Ghul.

Even though Bane has been on the big screen as often as Joker, as well as more recently, I still crave a comics-faithful version on the big screen. Major props to Hardy's performance, but a Bane without Venom and with a retarded voice synthesizer is like a Joker without bad jokes or a purple suit. Fight choreography that is exceptional would also be a must. The brief fight at the end of Doom, which I saw after TDKR, easily cleared the bar set by TDKR's first meeting between Bats and Bane. Full disclosure; I'm a huge hypocrite. I don't want to see GG in the next Spidey film even though he hasn't been in a movie since 2001 (surfboard Harry does not count, obviously), but I'm foaming at the mouth to see Bane and Batman go at it in a more comic book universe. The potential is there to eclipse even Spidey vs. The Lizard, or Thor vs. Iron Man/Hulk. I know fighting scenes shouldn't be so important to me, but Batman is arguably the greatest hand-to-hand combatant in the DC universe, dagnabbit!!! He needs to be Ip Man, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Ali all in one.

Some combination of Scarecrow/Bane/Riddler/Two-Face would be my ideal 3 leads, but there is always room for action/behind the scenes villains. Killer Croc and Clayface would work as fantastic action scene baddies, and Bane could be relegated to this role if necessary. After all, he was introduced in BTAS as a cerebral hitman (sidenote: please let him be latin american in the next movie, he's the only major rogue Batman has that isn't white, besides Ra's... who was also played by a white dude). On the other hand, Black Mask and Hugo Strange would work as behind the scenes villains. Ra's is a given as well, but he had his fingerprints over 2/3 of the last trilogy, so other villains should get their chance to shine.

And to DarKush, the Nolan universe is dead and gone. I was going to add I'm said to say, but then I'd be lying. I loved the hell out of the first 2 Nolan bats movies, but TDKR left a sour taste in my mouth (I will only get into specifics if someone asks for examples). I won't go on one of my long-winded explanations, suffice it to say that I watched TDK for the 10th time or so a week after I saw TDKR in theaters, and I still enjoyed it more by a long shot. Keep in mind that I was watching TDK at a friends house on a 25" TV, and her 4 year old son was being distracting me.

Speaking on the next Batman trilogy in general, the biggest success of the first 2 Nolan movies wasn't the "realism", but a combo of amazing casting, acting, directing, pacing, storytelling, tone, and an unforgettable score. If the next Batman trilogy nails half of those aspects, and reintroduces Bruce's "only in the comics" belt, full of kryptonite rings, various batarangs, rebreathers, antidotes, smoke bombs, etc, I'll be one happy camper. Watchmen was incredibly serious, as well as not realistic in the slightest, so it is possible. Whoops, so much for not being long-winded.

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Old 12-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #36
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Film 1: Victor Fries, somehow connected to Wayne Corp. Preferably as a tragic anti-hero. The Riddler in the background, trying to out-wit the worlds greatest detective.

Film 2: Mob-wars, The Penguin & Back Mask or something? Post-credit scene with a Joker-card.

Film 3: Harley & The Joker. Some fantastical enemies for spectacular action scenes? Croc or Clayface could always be tied in with the Joker, with him being behind their transformation(s) etc.

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:16 PM   #37
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Default Re: Next Batman Villain?

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Could it be as good without Joker involved anywhere in said trilogy? I believe so.
This is where we differ. I cannot imagine a complete Batman story without the Joker being in there somewhere. It's like Jonah Nolan and his insistence to put Catwoman into TDKR, as he felt he could not imagine Batman's story without the most important female in Batman's world.

Quote:
Shouldn't Nolan's rep be solely on Nolan's rep and not just because of Joker, though?
I never said the Joker, I said The Dark Knight. The movie itself really launched Nolan into fame, and it made audiences and comic book fans wet themselves.

Some people who saw it had never even seen Begins and still loved it. The fact that TDKR was a sequel to one of the most popular and successful movies of all time was enough of an attraction and publicity for it.

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:24 PM   #38
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If they're just gonna make movies, say 3 or 4 of them and then reboot it once again in ANOTHER new universe. Then yeah Joker needs to be shown or mentioned at least in those 3 or 4 movies. If they're gonna go on forever and ever like the Bond franchise, where they did what? 20 movies over the course of 4 decades or so...then Joker still needs to be there, but they can wait quite a while. A Batman gone Bond would mean that you can do Joker by film # 7 and get away with it.

If you guys think it's gonna be a trilogy next time around then bam..another reboot, then i say it's too soon to have him as a vital character. Yet he still needs to be mentioned. I would be completely fine with a reference to him and how he exists and has tango'd with the Batman in the past. But 3 films is just too soon. There's too many villains that need some justice on the big screen before u start repeating characters from Nolans universe.

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Old 12-05-2012, 09:00 PM   #39
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One could argue he is as important to the mythos as Alfred or Gordon. He is Batmans mortal enemy.

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Old 12-05-2012, 09:12 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by NosfeRomas View Post
Well you can't say Jim Carrey Riddler was completely off, he paid tribute to the Frank Gorshin version of the charecter which wasnt off either. its one way to look at the Riddler not the only way but one way. Penguin was crap, i love Burgess Meredith as an actor but overacting isn't always fun and Tim Burton sodomized the Penguin in Batman Returns (enjoyable film to watch on Christmas but the characters were raped).
Jim Carrey did a far better job channelling Gorshin than DeVito. That was just all kinds of stupid and wrong.

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Old 12-05-2012, 09:39 PM   #41
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This is where we differ. I cannot imagine a complete Batman story without the Joker being in there somewhere. It's like Jonah Nolan and his insistence to put Catwoman into TDKR, as he felt he could not imagine Batman's story without the most important female in Batman's world.
Or Jonathan Nolan insisted on Catwoman solely because Selina Kyle could play a very important role in Bruce Wayne moving on, and she did help in TDKR.

Plus, needless to say I'm open to the idea of Joker being mentioned, sure, but I also think if we had another trilogy, we could see villains such as Riddler, Hugo Strange, Penguin, Killer Croc, Mr. Freeze, maybe even someone like Clayface or Man-Bat even.

Quote:
I never said the Joker, I said The Dark Knight. The movie itself really launched Nolan into fame, and it made audiences and comic book fans wet themselves.

Some people who saw it had never even seen Begins and still loved it. The fact that TDKR was a sequel to one of the most popular and successful movies of all time was enough of an attraction and publicity for it.
And you also said the character himself(Joker) was a cash cow, when it was easily Nolan's reputation of The Dark Knight and even Inception that got more people involved into Nolan's filmmaking career, ala TDKR making the money it did.

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Old 12-06-2012, 01:56 AM   #42
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The Scarecrow should be done again. Nolan barely scratched the surface of his potential.
Amen!!! That is the problem with Nolan's version. He lack the scariness and horror. I would like to see tbtas scarecrow from the late 1990's.

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:11 PM   #43
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Or Jonathan Nolan insisted on Catwoman solely because Selina Kyle could play a very important role in Bruce Wayne moving on, and she did help in TDKR.
From the man himself;

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Why did Jonathan Nolan feel so strongly about including Catwoman? He tells Empire that for their vision of Batman to be complete, they simply couldn't leave her out. "What we're endeavoring to do here is tell a complete take on the Batman mythos. And a complete take of the Batman mythos without the character for me was sacrilegious," Nolan said.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/168...er-nolan.jhtml

Obviously once they decided to put her in it for the reasons Jonah mentioned, they gave her a purpose in the story.

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And you also said the character himself(Joker) was a cash cow
He is a cash cow. No denying it. He's almost as iconic as Batman himself.

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when it was easily Nolan's reputation of The Dark Knight and even Inception that got more people involved into Nolan's filmmaking career, ala TDKR making the money it did.
How much money did Inception make? 825 mil WW. Prior to this, did any movie Nolan made aside from TDK make anything close to that kind of money? No. Because TDK is the movie that put Nolan on the map.

Even when they were promoting Inception, they would use tag lines like "From Christopher Nolan, director of The Dark Knight". I'm not trying to under sell Nolan as a director. I am saying TDK is the movie that made him a household name. It's the movie that made people really take notice of him as a director.

The Dark Knight Rises being a direct sequel to TDK was the best kind of publicity it could have gotten.

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:19 PM   #44
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From the man himself;



http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/168...er-nolan.jhtml

Obviously once they decided to put her in it for the reasons Jonah mentioned, they gave her a purpose in the story.
Quote:
for their vision of Batman to be complete
So you didn't think to complete Batman's tale, Catwoman had to be there to get him to move on which is what Selina Kyle helped with in TDKR? She's a fantastic love interest as well and that is why she was needed to complete Batman's tale for the Nolans.

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He is a cash cow. No denying it. He's almost as iconic as Batman himself.
No one is denying this either, but the movie themselves help if they're still good enough or if the director wins the audience over as Christopher Nolan has.

Quote:
How much money did Inception make? 825 mil WW. Prior to this, did any movie Nolan made aside from TDK make anything close to that kind of money? No. Because TDK is the movie that put Nolan on the map.

Even when they were promoting Inception, they would use tag lines like "From Christopher Nolan, director of The Dark Knight". I'm not trying to under sell Nolan as a director. I am saying TDK is the movie that made him a household name. It's the movie that made people really take notice of him as a director.

The Dark Knight Rises being a direct sequel to TDK was the best kind of publicity it could have gotten.
But still, it's the film itself, not just Joker being the villain. As I've already said. But, nevertheless, Inception DID help The Dark Knight Rises, mostly in letting Nolan widen the scope and scale of things as he did with Inception.

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:23 PM   #45
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Blackmask is not on the poll.I cant vote

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:26 PM   #46
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You can vote other

Can I not add more options to the poll somehow?

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:27 PM   #47
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I think if they want to have a Batman compatible with Justice League, perhaps bringing some fantastical Sci-Fi characters would be appropiate. The best of them: Mr. Freeze.

I still think The Riddler could be a great villian given the chance. Either way, they must give glimpses of a larger rogues gallery. And yes, let's bring the Joker too, but save him for a sequel.

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:28 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
So you didn't think to complete Batman's tale, Catwoman had to be there to get him to move on which is what Selina Kyle helped with in TDKR? She's a fantastic love interest as well and that is why she was needed to complete Batman's tale for the Nolans.
Anno, stop trying to speak on behalf of the Nolans. This is the second time you've tried that. You can't change a fact just by saying what you want to believe. You just read his own words right there. He said he could not imagine a take on the Batman mythos without Catwoman in it. Leaving her out would be sacrilegious. His words.

Simple as that.

It's the same as me saying I cannot imagine a take on the Batman mythology without the Joker because he is Batman's greatest villain.

Quote:
No one is denying this either, but the movie themselves help if they're still good enough or if the director wins the audience over as Christopher Nolan has.
There is hundreds of examples of great movies that never got their due at the box office, Anno. Same as how there's lots of movies that were bad and did too well at the box office.

It's not a rule of thumb that success equals quality. However it's no coincidence that the two live action Batman movies featuring the Joker were huge landmark events of their time. They were game changers for the superhero genre.

Quote:
But still, is is the film itself, not just Joker being the villain. As I've already said. But, nevertheless, Inception DID help The Dark Knight Rises, mostly in letting Nolan widen the scope and scale of things as he did with Inception.
I never said it was just Joker being villain. In fact I specified that to you already here in a previous post above; "I never said the Joker, I said The Dark Knight. The movie itself really launched Nolan into fame, and it made audiences and comic book fans wet themselves.

Some people who saw it had never even seen Begins and still loved it. The fact that TDKR was a sequel to one of the most popular and successful movies of all time was enough of an attraction and publicity for it."

Given the facts that the first movie Nolan made after TDK sky rocketed to 825 mil, in comparison to all the movies he did prior to TDK looked like this financially;

- Memento; $39,723,096
- Insomnia; $113,714,830
- Batman Begins; $374,218,673
- The Prestige; $109,676,311

The writing is on the wall, Anno.

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:36 PM   #49
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Anno, stop trying to speak on behalf of the Nolans. This is the second time you've tried that. You can't change a fact just by saying what you want to believe. You just read his own words right there. He said he could not imagine a take on the Batman mythos without Catwoman in it. Leaving her out would be sacrilegious. His words.

Simple as that.

It's the same as me saying I cannot imagine a take on the Batman mythology without the Joker because he is Batman's greatest villain.
I bolded the word 'THEIR' as in THEIR VISION and you think I'm trying to speak on behalf of them. Fascinating.

Quote:
There is hundreds of examples of great movies that never got their due at the box office, Anno. Same as how there's lots of movies that were bad and did too well at the box office.

It's not a rule of thumb that success equals quality. However it's no coincidence that the two live action Batman movies featuring the Joker were huge landmark events of their time. They were game changers for the superhero genre.
I didn't say anything about this, but okay. All I said was movies do have to be good to still get an audience. Batman Begins didn't do great at the box office compared to TDK and TDKR but BB still gained an audience because of the film's direction.

Quote:
I never said it was just Joker being villain. In fact I specified that to you already here in a previous post above; "I never said the Joker, I said The Dark Knight. The movie itself really launched Nolan into fame, and it made audiences and comic book fans wet themselves.

Some people who saw it had never even seen Begins and still loved it. The fact that TDKR was a sequel to one of the most popular and successful movies of all time was enough of an attraction and publicity for it."

Given the facts that the first movie Nolan made after TDK sky rocketed to 825 mil, in comparison to all the movies he did prior to TDK looked like this financially;

- Memento; $39,723,096
- Insomnia; $113,714,830
- Batman Begins; $374,218,673
- The Prestige; $109,676,311

The writing is on the wall, Anno.
What 'writing on the wall'?

The writing where I already said as well that Nolan's rep helped TDKR?

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:38 PM   #50
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You can vote other

Can I not add more options to the poll somehow?
The others are aquaman villains....


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