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Old 12-06-2012, 01:56 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
That is what is most frustrating about the whole thing.
I mean, his original voice was perfectly clear for me and had no interest in arguing about it. But I never expected them to change it.

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Old 12-06-2012, 02:12 PM   #452
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I never expected them to change it into something worse. Ya change something for the better not the worst.

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Old 12-06-2012, 02:15 PM   #453
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Which, imo, they did just that. Changed his voice for the better. I had no complaints before, but his voice is even more clearer.

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Old 12-06-2012, 02:16 PM   #454
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Yup that's why ya get lots of people complaining about it even more than they did for the prologue one.

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Old 12-06-2012, 02:17 PM   #455
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Again with "lots of people", lol.

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Old 12-06-2012, 02:21 PM   #456
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Truth is truth.

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Old 12-06-2012, 05:10 PM   #457
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truth is truth.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:33 PM   #458
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When it's real truth, sure.

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Old 12-07-2012, 12:49 AM   #459
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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If the "experts" had shut up about the original prologue voice, no changes would've been made.
Agreed. I liked the muffled sound, it was natural. The way it is now it seems like he's omnipresent, talking over the whole room from all directions. I still enjoy it though.

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Old 12-07-2012, 03:17 AM   #460
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Agreed. I liked the muffled sound, it was natural. The way it is now it seems like he's omnipresent, talking over the whole room from all directions. I still enjoy it though.
That is a mixing decision, not a performance/adr issue. Agreed though, I love the hell out of it. It was bizarre at first, but that sense of his voice being in your head is very effective.

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Old 12-07-2012, 03:37 AM   #461
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Agreed. I liked the muffled sound, it was natural. The way it is now it seems like he's omnipresent, talking over the whole room from all directions. I still enjoy it though.
No complaints for the the rest of his performance, though.

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Old 12-07-2012, 03:58 AM   #462
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I loved the film - but as time went on I had a few complaints. Of what I'd change...it'd be;

-The 8 year absence. I feel it betrays the ending of the last film, felt it was not needed and I would love to have Batman be a 10 year force by this film. I'd make it so Bruce got lost in his monster after Rachel's death, becoming obsessed with being Batman.
-Make Bane's plan a bit better - plenty here have explained how they'd do that so I won't bother to reiterate.
-Show the citizen's perspective on things. Give it a more human side.
-Give Batman/Bane a better final fight and give Bane a proper death.
-Make Selina's role more needed. Develop her relationship with Batman more.

I think the film had too much story to tell for one film only. Anyone else feel this way?

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Old 12-07-2012, 04:06 AM   #463
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

The movie is simultaneously too long in some aspects and too short in others. It's quite the conundrum.

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Old 12-07-2012, 04:15 AM   #464
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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The movie is simultaneously too long in some aspects and too short in others. It's quite the conundrum.
I think that may have to do with the editing , that is a little disjointed sometimes. In that area i definitely thing its the least accomplished of the three. But it probably was the most difficult one .

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Old 12-07-2012, 04:16 AM   #465
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The movie is simultaneously too long in some aspects and too short in others. It's quite the conundrum.
A great way of putting it.

I think in some ways the film bit off more than it could chew and took too few bites of others. Tis a shame because some things would've worked great with some tweaking.

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Old 12-07-2012, 05:13 AM   #466
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

A thing I'd like to change in TDKR and slightly in TDK is to have the villains have more screentime with other members of the cast. Bane in-particular. A scene with Gordon or especially Catwoman would have been great to see he but he almost never converses with anyone in this film. He talks to them, they don't really talk back. I think I would have preffered Bane tracking down Gordon and getting him to read out his speech rather than Bane reading it.

The Joker as well I believe should have had a proper scene with Dent before him being scarred or at least have Dent talk back more than he did.

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Old 12-07-2012, 09:46 AM   #467
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
I loved the film - but as time went on I had a few complaints. Of what I'd change...it'd be;

-The 8 year absence. I feel it betrays the ending of the last film, felt it was not needed and I would love to have Batman be a 10 year force by this film. I'd make it so Bruce got lost in his monster after Rachel's death, becoming obsessed with being Batman.
-Make Bane's plan a bit better - plenty here have explained how they'd do that so I won't bother to reiterate.
-Show the citizen's perspective on things. Give it a more human side.
-Give Batman/Bane a better final fight and give Bane a proper death.
-Make Selina's role more needed. Develop her relationship with Batman more.

I think the film had too much story to tell for one film only. Anyone else feel this way?
I feel that way. Every one of your points is a change I'd love to see. Particularly the 8 year absence, the citizens perspective, Bane's plan needed a lot of improvement, and more development for Selina because she was brilliant and lifted the movie every time she appeared.

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:09 AM   #468
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I would have Batman not replying to Bane's "so you came back to die with your citeh "

Just imagine : Batman says nothing, they just stare at each other and then start fighting.

Not only we would have had one less cheesy line, but also the thought that Batman could or could not die with his city

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:16 AM   #469
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

My only gripe about Nolan's Batman trilogy was that it... was a trilogy...it should have been four films (quadrilogy???)...

I have watched Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises back-to-back (one film each night) on two separate occassions now, and both times I had the same opinion:

At the end of The Dark Knight, Batman rises off as a bada** ... citizens think he's a villain, the cops are after him, but Gordon knows the truth and is going to cover his tracks... THIS SETS UP A GREAT SETTING FOR A THIRD MOVIE... which we never get...

-We never see GCPD actively hunting down/investigating Batman/Bruce.
-We never get to see Commissioner Gordon leading the task force to take down Batman; meanwhile, Gordon is assisting Batman to NOT be caught.
-We never see citizen's reactions to "Batman as a villain" and what criminals thought of it
-I don't buy that no other members of the Rogue's gallery pop up.

The 8-year-gap doesn't ring true for me. I understand that Nolan wanted to show Batman retired due to 1) Rachel's death 2) Dent's death fixed crime, etc. etc. etc. But TDKR feels disjointed from TDK. The ending of TDK doesn't match up with where we find things start in TDKR.

It feels like there's a third film in-between TDK and TDKR that we never saw. That third film would show Gordon covering for Batman as Batman is hunted by GCPD; that third film would give an origin to Selina/Catwoman (I think she needed to be developed more); that third film would include another Rogue's gallery member (I think the Riddler as an FBI agent tracking Batman would make complete sense); that third film would show Batman becoming more and more obsessed with being Batman and NOT Bruce Wayne due to his depression and Rachel's death...

It all leads to the third film's villains (Riddler) defeat due to Batman's intellect, Batman retires, Miranda is introduced due to the clean energy project, GCPD fails to capture Batman due to Gordon's interference, Harvey Dent Act is passed, Selina becomes Catwoman, and then...

Bam! The Dark Knight Rises begins...

In hindsight, I just don't buy that NOTHING happened in Gotham in-between TDK and TDKR.

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:19 AM   #470
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by Fudgie View Post
You laugh and moan at every thread that isn't drooling all over Rises.
And then you come along, and make an equally ignorant remark.

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Originally Posted by TheBat812 View Post
As a sound guy, I think they probably always intended to loop all his lines to begin with, they were just praying for most people to understand it in the prologue release. Clarity is just so important, so much story would be missed. This is the problem with showing people unfinished work. If you guys had only seen the final version and not gotten attached to the original, you would probably love it as much as I do.
I agree. While I still like the prologue version of the voice better, the final version has grown on me. So much so in fact, that I think the alternative takes for the "No! They expect one of us in the wreckage, brother" exchange and the "Calm down, doctor!" line are better. The "Of course!" and "For you" lines are clearly inferior though, although I've managed to reconcile the ridiculously high pitch of the first one. I think of it as something along the lines of "Of course, you idiot!".

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:34 AM   #471
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregComicFan View Post
My only gripe about Nolan's Batman trilogy was that it... was a trilogy...it should have been four films (quadrilogy???)...

I have watched Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises back-to-back (one film each night) on two separate occassions now, and both times I had the same opinion:

At the end of The Dark Knight, Batman rises off as a bada** ... citizens think he's a villain, the cops are after him, but Gordon knows the truth and is going to cover his tracks... THIS SETS UP A GREAT SETTING FOR A THIRD MOVIE... which we never get...

-We never see GCPD actively hunting down/investigating Batman/Bruce.
-We never get to see Commissioner Gordon leading the task force to take down Batman; meanwhile, Gordon is assisting Batman to NOT be caught.
-We never see citizen's reactions to "Batman as a villain" and what criminals thought of it
-I don't buy that no other members of the Rogue's gallery pop up.

The 8-year-gap doesn't ring true for me. I understand that Nolan wanted to show Batman retired due to 1) Rachel's death 2) Dent's death fixed crime, etc. etc. etc. But TDKR feels disjointed from TDK. The ending of TDK doesn't match up with where we find things start in TDKR.

It feels like there's a third film in-between TDK and TDKR that we never saw. That third film would show Gordon covering for Batman as Batman is hunted by GCPD; that third film would give an origin to Selina/Catwoman (I think she needed to be developed more); that third film would include another Rogue's gallery member (I think the Riddler as an FBI agent tracking Batman would make complete sense); that third film would show Batman becoming more and more obsessed with being Batman and NOT Bruce Wayne due to his depression and Rachel's death...

It all leads to the third film's villains (Riddler) defeat due to Batman's intellect, Batman retires, Miranda is introduced due to the clean energy project, GCPD fails to capture Batman due to Gordon's interference, Harvey Dent Act is passed, Selina becomes Catwoman, and then...

Bam! The Dark Knight Rises begins...

In hindsight, I just don't buy that NOTHING happened in Gotham in-between TDK and TDKR.
Excellent post

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:35 AM   #472
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregComicFan View Post
My only gripe about Nolan's Batman trilogy was that it... was a trilogy...it should have been four films (quadrilogy???)...

I have watched Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises back-to-back (one film each night) on two separate occassions now, and both times I had the same opinion:

At the end of The Dark Knight, Batman rises off as a bada** ... citizens think he's a villain, the cops are after him, but Gordon knows the truth and is going to cover his tracks... THIS SETS UP A GREAT SETTING FOR A THIRD MOVIE... which we never get...

-We never see GCPD actively hunting down/investigating Batman/Bruce.
-We never get to see Commissioner Gordon leading the task force to take down Batman; meanwhile, Gordon is assisting Batman to NOT be caught.
-We never see citizen's reactions to "Batman as a villain" and what criminals thought of it
-I don't buy that no other members of the Rogue's gallery pop up.

The 8-year-gap doesn't ring true for me. I understand that Nolan wanted to show Batman retired due to 1) Rachel's death 2) Dent's death fixed crime, etc. etc. etc. But TDKR feels disjointed from TDK. The ending of TDK doesn't match up with where we find things start in TDKR.

It feels like there's a third film in-between TDK and TDKR that we never saw. That third film would show Gordon covering for Batman as Batman is hunted by GCPD; that third film would give an origin to Selina/Catwoman (I think she needed to be developed more); that third film would include another Rogue's gallery member (I think the Riddler as an FBI agent tracking Batman would make complete sense); that third film would show Batman becoming more and more obsessed with being Batman and NOT Bruce Wayne due to his depression and Rachel's death...

It all leads to the third film's villains (Riddler) defeat due to Batman's intellect, Batman retires, Miranda is introduced due to the clean energy project, GCPD fails to capture Batman due to Gordon's interference, Harvey Dent Act is passed, Selina becomes Catwoman, and then...

Bam! The Dark Knight Rises begins...

In hindsight, I just don't buy that NOTHING happened in Gotham in-between TDK and TDKR.
The only two people that don't seem to like Batman are Foley and the mayor. Blake likes him. Even the big boned cop with the young partner seemed to be delighted that he showed up, and criticized his partner for shooting at Batman. Young kids can't wait for Batman to come back. Selina was excited he came back, though maybe the "no guns. no killing" thing surprised her if she bought it. Her reaction should be, "from the guy that killed Dent?" This guy is supposed to be a cop killing crazed murderer but not too many people seem to buy it. It was one of the things I was anticipating but it was odd it's downplayed.


Last edited by MagnarTheGreat; 12-07-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #473
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
qft
Thank you, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe View Post
I loved the film - but as time went on I had a few complaints. Of what I'd change...it'd be;

-The 8 year absence. I feel it betrays the ending of the last film, felt it was not needed and I would love to have Batman be a 10 year force by this film. I'd make it so Bruce got lost in his monster after Rachel's death, becoming obsessed with being Batman.
-Make Bane's plan a bit better - plenty here have explained how they'd do that so I won't bother to reiterate.
-Show the citizen's perspective on things. Give it a more human side.
-Give Batman/Bane a better final fight and give Bane a proper death.
-Make Selina's role more needed. Develop her relationship with Batman more.

I think the film had too much story to tell for one film only. Anyone else feel this way?
Post winner right here. All of that should have been done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregComicFan View Post
My only gripe about Nolan's Batman trilogy was that it... was a trilogy...it should have been four films (quadrilogy???)...

I have watched Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises back-to-back (one film each night) on two separate occassions now, and both times I had the same opinion:

At the end of The Dark Knight, Batman rises off as a bada** ... citizens think he's a villain, the cops are after him, but Gordon knows the truth and is going to cover his tracks... THIS SETS UP A GREAT SETTING FOR A THIRD MOVIE... which we never get...

-We never see GCPD actively hunting down/investigating Batman/Bruce.
-We never get to see Commissioner Gordon leading the task force to take down Batman; meanwhile, Gordon is assisting Batman to NOT be caught.
-We never see citizen's reactions to "Batman as a villain" and what criminals thought of it
-I don't buy that no other members of the Rogue's gallery pop up.

The 8-year-gap doesn't ring true for me. I understand that Nolan wanted to show Batman retired due to 1) Rachel's death 2) Dent's death fixed crime, etc. etc. etc. But TDKR feels disjointed from TDK. The ending of TDK doesn't match up with where we find things start in TDKR.

It feels like there's a third film in-between TDK and TDKR that we never saw. That third film would show Gordon covering for Batman as Batman is hunted by GCPD; that third film would give an origin to Selina/Catwoman (I think she needed to be developed more); that third film would include another Rogue's gallery member (I think the Riddler as an FBI agent tracking Batman would make complete sense); that third film would show Batman becoming more and more obsessed with being Batman and NOT Bruce Wayne due to his depression and Rachel's death...

It all leads to the third film's villains (Riddler) defeat due to Batman's intellect, Batman retires, Miranda is introduced due to the clean energy project, GCPD fails to capture Batman due to Gordon's interference, Harvey Dent Act is passed, Selina becomes Catwoman, and then...

Bam! The Dark Knight Rises begins...

In hindsight, I just don't buy that NOTHING happened in Gotham in-between TDK and TDKR.
Hell to the yeah. Rises totally feels off from TDK's ending.

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Originally Posted by BatmanBeyond View Post
And then you come along, and make an equally ignorant remark.
Truth is not ignorance. Go look through his post history for the evidence. Undeniable.

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:49 AM   #474
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat View Post
The only two people that don't seem to like Batman are Foley and the mayor. Blake likes him. Even the big boned cop with the young partner seemed to be delighted that he showed up, and criticized his partner for shooting at Batman. Young kids can't wait for Batman to come back. Selina was excited he came back, though maybe the "no guns. no killing" thing surprised her if she bought it. Her reaction should be, "from the guy that killed Dent?" This guy is supposed to be a cop killing crazed murderer but not too many people seem to buy it. It was one of the things I was anticipating but it was odd it's downplayed.
Exactly. Excellent post.

For all the times Nolan talked about the 8-year-gap being necessary to show that Dent's death had an impact on Gotham, TDKR has so many inconsistencies with TDK's ending. Most of those inconsistencies have to do with Batman. He's supposed to be a crazed criminal now... but we never get to see cops hunting/hating him, citizens fearing him, and criminals thinking "wow, Batman really is knocking off criminals!"...

That's why I just feel like there should of been a third movie in-between TDK and TDKR... or TDKR, the final film, should have been a 2-part film... like Potter and Twilight did on their final films.

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Old 12-07-2012, 11:16 AM   #475
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Truth is not ignorance. Go look through his post history for the evidence. Undeniable.
Not what I was referring to. Your response to his ignorant remark was almost as bad as his. Ignore him or report him, but there's no need to continue posting things that will clearly get a rise (pun intended) out of people.

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