Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

[JP]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Well it's not a photo of Chris, but it is artwork of Chris as Thor.

Surfer

Haha, well yes. That's what I mean.

[M-2]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I have no problem with thor being more powerful (that's assuming he even inherits the odinforce) we don't even know if it has that quality to it

I too have no problem with Thor being more powerful. I think they should actually do more to show just how powerful Thor really is.

I think when it comes to the films Thor should rarely be seen on earth, let him deal with whatever in Asgard and the realms. When it comes to villains like Kang, Ultron and Thanos... Thor will definitely be needed and all three of these villains can push Thor to his limits.

But when dealing with Aim, MODOK, Red Skull and less all powerful/fantastical villians.... I think the Avengers can handle it without Thor.

This could also help with changing the team roster when that finally happens.

[Son of Coul]

I know it probably won't happen, but it'd be shweet to get a Superbowl teaser early next year.

[Smashlilman]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Apparently Thor hasn't quite figured out the whole Cringer/Battle Cat transformation part...

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

I'm surprised Thor hasn't devoured that poptart. Tis' good crap.
And I don't think it was a kiddy movie. I'd say they played it a bit safe, which is understandable considering it was Thor's debut.

[mkilban2]

So do you guys think that a good size for Sutur would be like the size of the fire guy that Gandolf says "you shall not pass" to in LotR1 or bigger? I know comic wise Surtur is probably more like the size of the big fire guy in Wrath of the Titans, but I just can't seem them going that route. The guy in LotR is probably like 35-40 ft tall, I think that would be fine to see in a Thor film.

[Brian Braddock]

Originally Posted by elizah72

?? maybe referring to this guy?

It's funny - my first thought when I saw the guy in the middle was 'Kurse'.

[Smashlilman]

Originally Posted by mkilban2

So do you guys think that a good size for Sutur would be like the size of the fire guy that Gandolf says "you shall not pass" to in LotR1 or bigger? I know comic wise Surtur is probably more like the size of the big fire guy in Wrath of the Titans, but I just can't seem them going that route. The guy in LotR is probably like 35-40 ft tall, I think that would be fine to see in a Thor film.

Nope he needs to be bigger much much bigger. Balgrog is too small. He should be around the same sizes as The Colossus of Rhodes in God of War 2.

Balgrog

Surtur

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

God of War 2 - Colossus of Rhodes

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

IF Odin is to die. That's what I would think. Not too sure though, Odin was going to hand the throne to thor.

True, although if we have a coronation early on, it's problematic for several reasons:
-it's kind of the same structure as Thor1
-it kind of looks like Thor's reward for bringing Loki in
-it changes the dynamics of a lot of what we believe will follow, based on the spoilers received thus far. (This last point I can also make for Thor getting the ability to open portals with Mjolnir early in the film, too, btw)

So while I agree that, given that it's in this montage, it's more likely to take place early in the film, for the above reasons, I wonder if there's some misdirection associated with this item. It doesn't seem to quite fit.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Yeah. Odin may die, he may not. IF Odin is dead, I think it will be at the end, due to surtur, resulting in thor's crowning, here's why.

In addition to the reasons you discuss below, there's also the Simonson arc.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

That theme of moral sacrifice. Thor leaving asgard for earth? That theme most likely has to be felt through out the movie.

I agree.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

if Odin dies, this means Thor inherits the throne at the end. I don't think Thor will abandon Asgard after his father got killed, at the end of the movie. Asgard is possibly damaged, Odin is dead, its his world now. He wouldn't leave it.

There is the variation that played out in Simonson's run: he declined the throne but (as far as I know) stayed in Asgard.

Actually, some summaries of that run say that Thor proceeds to search for Odin, since there was a chance that he hadn't actually perished (and does ultimately return, it being a comic book after all)

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Which leaves me with two ideas, one, the moral sacrifice happens earlier in the film, he abandons asgard earlier on, and there are mild reprocussions for it. Movie goes on, ultimately odin dies, thor is king, and now will stay in asgard till avengers 2.

Hmmm, then you are not really feeling that theme throughout the movie.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

OR this is a bit twisty, but hear me out. What if Thor's moral sacrifice is abandoning midgard, not asgard? We KNOW he loves earth. What if, while he is on earth, he makes a vow not to leave, and to protect earth. However, Odin dies, and Thor KNOWS he needs to return to Asgard where he is needed. Leaving behind a world he swore to protect? That could be one way to impliment moral sacrifice.

That *is* a good twist, and it grabs my interest. There's a part of me that feels like if he were to abandon Earth it would make him look a little less heroic in a "that figures" sort of way. Not that it wouldn't be justified, if Asgard's need is great. I will mull on it some more, though.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

If Thor becomes king in this movie, it seems more cinematic for it to happen at the end. Who knows, maybe the surtur arc will be completed in this movie

I agree about it being more cinematic.

I guess I had been assuming Thor would not become king in this movie. I don't know how to fit in the piece of the voiceover, though.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Here's something I found on one of the translated articles describing the Thor footage. Sounds like he might be describing the Dark Elves, and the elongated and sunken black eyes could be why Malekith has the dots around his eyes in the set pics. He could just be describing the eyes on the masks that the Dark Elves wear, though.

here are also some envoys/ambassadors of a people mysterious, with oval face and black eyes, elongated and sunken

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by Smashlilman

Balgrog is too small.

Sorry. I normally don't correct spelling, but my Tolkien fanhood demands it.

*Balrog

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

OR this is a bit twisty, but hear me out. What if Thor's moral sacrifice is abandoning midgard, not asgard? We KNOW he loves earth. What if, while he is on earth, he makes a vow not to leave, and to protect earth. However, Odin dies, and Thor KNOWS he needs to return to Asgard where he is needed. Leaving behind a world he swore to protect? That could be one way to impliment moral sacrifice.

If Thor becomes king in this movie, it seems more cinematic for it to happen at the end. Who knows, maybe the surtur arc will be completed in this movie



Not gunna lie. I prefer the norse god Thor. Meaning thor dealing with asgardian things

God, I sure hope Thor doesn't choose Asgard over Midgard. That would throw a huge monkey wrench into the Avengers. Thor is an integral part of the Big Three (in the MCU, it seems to be more of a Big Four) in the Avengers, and I can guarantee that *nobody* out there, fanboy or casual, wants to see Thor leave the Avengers.

And just having Thor "drop in" from Asgard from time to time to help the Avengers with the really heavy lifting makes Thor look like a douche, who just slums with us puny mortals whenever we're too weak to handle things on our own.

The central theme of Thor comics has always been that he is more in touch with Midgard than Asgard, that he feels more of a connection with mortals than immortals. He is one of EARTH'S Mightiest Heroes, and he needs to stay here.

[Surfer]

@ American Maid and Jaqua99, I don't think the moral sacrifice could be Thor abandoning Earth to save Asgard, because then Earth would certainly be destroyed without anyone to protect it. I mean sure someone could say that one of the other Avengers will protect the earth, but they need to show the evil forces being stopped on Earth and since this is a Thor movie it would not make sense if another character had so much of the limelight in the movie (as to save the earth), not to mention I don't believe there is suppose to be any cameo's from any of the Avengers in this movie. Therefore, if both Earth and Asgard are attacked (as it appears will happen) then we depend on Thor to save us, as he is the only Asgardian that might actually consider saving Earth before Asgard. So, basically it's a matter of, if he doesn't save Earth no one will and all will be lost. So, we know that can't happen, which means that Thor must save Earth and not Asgard (once again provided they are both Attacked and in danger of being destroyed).


Surfer

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

The central theme of Thor comics has always been that he is more in touch with Midgard than Asgard, that he feels more of a connection with mortals than immortals. He is one of EARTH'S Mightiest Heroes, and he needs to stay here.

I agree 100%, I mean Asgard is his home and he feels an obligation to it, but I think his heart very much belongs to Earth.

Surfer

[elizah72]

I would agree I can't see Thor abandoning Midgard, and I think that will be his "moral sacrifice" moment where perhaps there is a big price to pay on Asgard, for his leaving and defending Midgard.

[Godzilla2000]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I would agree I can't see Thor abandoning Midgard, and I think that will be his "moral sacrifice" moment where perhaps there is a big price to pay on Asgard, for his leaving and defending Midgard.

It could also be that Thor will have to make a choice of which one he has to choose to save from being overtaken with dark energy, Loki or Jane. I'm sure Thor choosing Jane, a mortal whom he loves over Loki, the brother he professed to love will be the one thing that would drive Loki to ultimately help Surtur and cause Ragnarok because with that much anger inside Loki most likely would want everything Thor cherishes destroyed just to get back at Thor betraying him.

[elizah72]

I thought you weren't reading spoilers! Hmmmm?!

That's possible I suppose, but I think it'll be bigger than that. If he's to be King of Asgard he's really got to deal with that conflict of defending Asgard vs defending Midgard. It's too juicy a conflict for them not to deal with at all.

[jaqua99]

i do, and did think the moral sarcrifice would be him abandoning earth, don't get me wrong guys. It was just an idea. The whole, Thor being king this just really throws me off. It's hard. Unless Odin just hands the throne to him at the beginning of the film (which really isn't cinematic), then most likely Odin is killed, and that oath could very well take place at the end of the movie.

And of course, IF Odin is dead, maybe Sam was right and that an entire Surtur arc will playout in this movie? I'm sort of shocked at Thor becoming king in this movie, it is sort of throwing things off

[marvel_freshman]

This is apparently from the footage presentation. Promo art of course.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2000

It could also be that Thor will have to make a choice of which one he has to choose to save from being overtaken with dark energy, Loki or Jane. I'm sure Thor choosing Jane, a mortal whom he loves over Loki, the brother he professed to love will be the one thing that would drive Loki to ultimately help Surtur and cause Ragnarok because with that much anger inside Loki most likely would want everything Thor cherishes destroyed just to get back at Thor betraying him.

Loki could possibly feel that way, since he feels alienated from his family anyway. Thor could reasonably make the argument that Jane is less able to fend for herself. (To pick a nit, the possession thing we think takes place near the beginning, and Thor and Jane start the movie not (yet) in love.) And as an aside, this dilemma might not even arise. Loki is supposed to be a very powerful sorcerer, so he ought to be able to keep himself from being taken over by dark energy.

[American Maid]

So I'm going to be devil's advocate here for a moment.

The sentence from the footage description we are discussing is:
“In the preview, a voice-over is heard with the oath of the God of Thunder as the new supreme ruler."

This is a translation of a description. The original author may not have been familiar with the Thor mythos. There might be an element of telephone game to this (and all the descriptors, actually).

With that caveat laid out, I'll note that:
-this does not say "we hear Chris Hemsworth (using his distinctive Asgardian accent) give the oath"
-the oath itself, from the first film, does not make reference to whether one is a God of Thunder:
ODIN Thor Odinson, do you swear to guard the Nine Realms?
THOR I swear.
ODIN Do you swear to preserve the peace?
THOR I swear.
ODIN Do you swear to cast aside all selfish ambition and pledge yourself only to the good of all the Realms? [Beat.]
THOR I swear. [Odin starts to proclaim Thor king, but then the Frost Giants spoil everything.]
Odin's speech prior to the administration of the oath talks about first Gungnir and then Mjolnir, saying, "Who wields this hammer commands the lightning and the storm."

So, all these things suggest two potential alternative interpretations:
1. That they are using the same voice-over from the first film
2. That someone else is taking this oath, and the author of the post ascribed it to Thor.

Just some ideas.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

So I'm going to be devil's advocate here for a moment.

The sentence from the footage description we are discussing is:
“In the preview, a voice-over is heard with the oath of the God of Thunder as the new supreme ruler."

This is a translation of a description. The original author may not have been familiar with the Thor mythos. There might be an element of telephone game to this (and all the descriptors, actually).

With that caveat laid out, I'll note that:
-this does not say "we hear Chris Hemsworth (using his distinctive Asgardian accent) give the oath"
-the oath itself, from the first film, does not make reference to whether one is a God of Thunder:
ODIN Thor Odinson, do you swear to guard the Nine Realms?
THOR I swear.
ODIN Do you swear to preserve the peace?
THOR I swear.
ODIN Do you swear to cast aside all selfish ambition and pledge yourself only to the good of all the Realms? [Beat.]
THOR I swear. [Odin starts to proclaim Thor king, but then the Frost Giants spoil everything.]
Odin's speech prior to the administration of the oath talks about first Gungnir and then Mjolnir, saying, "Who wields this hammer commands the lightning and the storm."

So, all these things suggest two potential alternative interpretations:
1. That they are using the same voice-over from the first film
2. That someone else is taking this oath, and the author of the post ascribed it to Thor.

Just some ideas.

It occurred to me that both of those are possible as well. yes. Unfortunately. LOL

[American Maid]

^^Also note that the actual oath for the Throne of Asgard identifies protection/ensuring the good of *all* the Nine Realms as one of the explicit duties of the king.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by American Maid

So, all these things suggest two potential alternative interpretations:
1. That they are using the same voice-over from the first film
2. That someone else is taking this oath, and the author of the post ascribed it to Thor.

Just some ideas.

#1: a possibility.
#2: Not a chance in Hela. There is only *one* (Norse) God of Thunder, and always will be.
#3: as you alluded to earlier, this could still be mistranslation/misinterpretation by the Italian site. I don't think so, but maybe.
#4: It is what it is. Thor has the throne.

[elizah72]

Minor but they appear to have found their "men of fire" per earlier reported casting calls from a few months back...

http://www.flambecircustheatre.co.uk...nts/4569638858 (under clients Asgard Productions - Thursday Mourning )

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

#1: a possibility.
#2: Not a chance in Hela. There is only *one* (Norse) God of Thunder, and always will be.
#3: as you alluded to earlier, this could still be mistranslation/misinterpretation by the Italian site. I don't think so, but maybe.
#4: It is what it is. Thor has the throne.

Regarding #2, I did not mean to suggest someone else was claiming to be the God of Thunder. What I meant to convey is that maybe someone else becomes king of Asgard after Odin (as Balder did in the Simonson run) and takes the oath without making reference to his (the speaker's) identity. But perhaps further the author of the original Italian site assumed it was Thor and wrote it up as "the God of Thunder takes the oath", when perhaps actually the voice-over made no such claim. Perhaps the voice over just said "I swear to guard all the Nine Realms and preserve the peace etc".

Maybe while Thor is out and about someone has to step in as Regent, for example. Loki served as king for a period in the first film, although admittedly they didn't go through the formality of oath-swearing.