Uncanny Plot Similarities between The Dark Knight Rises & Batman Begins (SPOILERS)

[BatLobsterRises]

Or you know, some people actually found the parallels to be an engaging aspect of the storyline.

[BatmanBeyond]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Or you know, some people actually found the parallels to be an engaging aspect of the storyline.

Oh, but didn't you know? If something's not wholly original, it's automatically bad and lazy.

God forbid Nolan have some continuity between the three movies of the trilogy.

[Doctor Octopus]

There's too many similarities. A couple is ok, but so many is jarring and it makes me feel like I am watching a recycled plot.

[Ryan]

Unfortunately TDKR came off in some senses like the series ending to sitcom...like Seinfeld. There is a plot but for the most it begins to rehash alot of the "golden" moments from earlier moments in the series. Like the Seinfeld ending, they tried to shoot for some higher plane, but then the characters wound up coming out, well, not like the people we all loved and left a lot of people scratching their heads.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Unfortunately TDKR came off in some senses like the series ending to sitcom...like Seinfeld. There is a plot but for the most it begins to rehash alot of the "golden" moments from earlier moments in the series. Like the Seinfeld ending, they tried to shoot for some higher plane, but then the characters wound up coming out, well, not like the people we all loved and left a lot of people scratching their heads.

Yup it is a repeat of stuff Nolan did before only it's done in worse ways. I mean geez could they be more unoriginal than having the villain plan be blowing up a city again with some evil device. It didn't feel like a sequel it felt like a repeat.

[CapedCrusader14]

It is a bit of laziness, akin to the Death Star II in Return of the Jedi.

But the execution felt different to me than how it was in Begins so it didn't bother me.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Yup it is a repeat of stuff Nolan did before only it's done in worse ways. I mean geez could they be more unoriginal than having the villain plan be blowing up a city again with some evil device. It didn't feel like a sequel it felt like a repeat.

Unfortunately it was becoming formulaic. Prologue idea was great in TDK, but now its used again in TDKR. Both prologues also used the idea of having a bunch of guys masked, and then you get the big reveal that one is the main villain. I figured the film might be headed in this direction after I intially saw the prologue in the theatre.

[CapedCrusader14]

I didn't see what was so wrong about the prologue using that idea.

[TheHeatKitchen]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader14

It is a bit of laziness, akin to the Death Star II in Return of the Jedi.

But the execution felt different to me than how it was in Begins so it didn't bother me.

It reminds me more of how the rejected script for Michael Bay's upcoming TMNT movie was basically Transformers with turtles instead of robots.

The difference is these two movies are IN THE SAME SERIES!

TDKR was good, but a HUGE disappointment, simply because of Nolan and Goyer's laziness (it's more Goyer's fault that Nolan's, as he did the story for all three films). It was EMBARRASSINGLY lazy when you really think about it.

[CapedCrusader14]

God I'm glad I wasn't as disappointed by Rises as you guys were.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Some people are just so bitter about it, and I for one am super happy that I loved Rises, I really can't imagine what it would feel like to be that dissapointed.

[Ryan]

I wish I did it love as much as other's did but I simply can't.

[CapedCrusader14]

Yeah I'm glad I wasn't letdown by it either. Can't wait to do my trilogy viewing.

[TheHeatKitchen]

It was still a good film, and sure it wrapped the LOS thing up in a nice little bow. But the story was poorly written, as an individual film (I look first at the whole idea of Bane having a bomb drive around the city for months while Bruce recovered) and considering the saga (the similarities in story-telling and events from Batman Begins).

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Seeing the whole trilogy in IMAX on opening day was one of the best experiences of my entire life.

[CapedCrusader14]

The story was perfectly fine to me.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Of course there's lots of similarities. Rises is just a weak rehash of Begins. Nolan got lazy in this one. Same plot devices he used before.

Some wonder why loads of people call the flick lazy.

Not exactly.

Bane and Catwoman have different goals than Ra's/Scarecrow (but not Talia).

The Gothamites are fully in control of their actions. Not under a drug's influence.

Batman is a leader moreso than a mysterious creature in the shadows.

Nuke to keep the govt. out and create a plausible No Man's Land scenario vs microwave emitter to spread Fear Gas.

No crime bosses strangling Gotham.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen

It reminds me more of how the rejected script for Michael Bay's upcoming TMNT movie was basically Transformers with turtles instead of robots.

The difference is these two movies are IN THE SAME SERIES!

TDKR was good, but a HUGE disappointment, simply because of Nolan and Goyer's laziness (it's more Goyer's fault that Nolan's, as he did the story for all three films). It was EMBARRASSINGLY lazy when you really think about it.

Quoted for truth. The script was laced with laziness. Blake and his magic ability to deduce Batman's identity based on a look being the laziest and most stupid of them all.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Unfortunately it was becoming formulaic. Prologue idea was great in TDK, but now its used again in TDKR. Both prologues also used the idea of having a bunch of guys masked, and then you get the big reveal that one is the main villain. I figured the film might be headed in this direction after I intially saw the prologue in the theatre.

Yup I noticed that. Bane's prologue was a copy of Joker's one. They even put in the Skyhook from the Hong Kong scene in TDK.

Originally Posted by Ryan

I wish I did it love as much as other's did but I simply can't.

Yup no Batman fan wants to be let down by any Batman flick. But Rises was an epic failure to moi.

Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen

It was still a good film, and sure it wrapped the LOS thing up in a nice little bow. But the story was poorly written, as an individual film (I look first at the whole idea of Bane having a bomb drive around the city for months while Bruce recovered) and considering the saga (the similarities in story-telling and events from Batman Begins).

LOS didn't even need any wrapping up. Begins left diddly squat to tie up with them. The only things Begins left dangling was Crane on the loose and the Joker card, and TDK dealt with both of 'em.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

Not exactly.

Bane and Catwoman have different goals than Ra's/Scarecrow (but not Talia).

The Gothamites are fully in control of their actions. Not under a drug's influence.

Batman is a leader moreso than a mysterious creature in the shadows.

Nuke to keep the govt. out and create a plausible No Man's Land scenario vs microwave emitter to spread Fear Gas.

No crime bosses strangling Gotham.

Bane was fulfilling Ra's work. How is that different to Talia? Catwoman wasn't a villain.

It's still Gothamites going berserk because of the villain.

Batman was a leader for like a minute and a half.

The Nuke was just a drawn out plot device so Brucie could heal himself and train and come back. Plot filler where nothing happened in it except some under cover Cops get killed and a few rich people get dropped in the ice. Yawn.

Daggett was just rich glorified version of Falcone and Maroni. A corrupt guy in a suit being used by the LOS. Same plot device.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Talia was there to fulfill Ra's work. She said as much in her reveal. Revenge on Bruce was secondary. Bane, on the other hand, was intent on proving himself to be the better man than Bruce or Ra's. He'd break the man who threw away a position in the League that Bane was due and accomplish what his savior failed to accomplish.

With submission, in respect to Dagget, he would be in the same boat as the last of Gotham's mob in TDK. That seems plausible; given how the Dent Act took out traditional crime, white collar seems the next big thing.

The Nuke, again, presented the opportunity for a plausible No Man's Land scenario. It was intrinsic to Bane being able to dangle hope before Gotham; the citizens had no idea that the bomb was going to go off no matter what. Bane didn't force the people to go berserk. Again, he essentially said "here you go", not "do this or you're dead."

The film didn't have the time necessary to draw out five months worth of executions; that would be verging on unnecessary filler. The tour of Crane's court and the executions simply allowed Nolan to show us how bad things were in Gotham, rather than take the easy way of having someone say "by the way, they're killing people in the kangaroo court."

The circumstances of Batman's leadership elevate it beyond the timeframe for his leadership. By circumstances, I intend to say that he stepped from being the shadowed beast/murderer to being a leader and a symbol of justice. It was integral to Bruce's character development.

[Agent Orange]

There are thematic similarities but Rises doesn't feel like Begins at all.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe

Some people are just so bitter about it, and I for one am super happy that I loved Rises, I really can't imagine what it would feel like to be that dissapointed.

[BatmanBeyond]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Of course there's lots of similarities. Rises is just a weak rehash of Begins. Nolan got lazy in this one. Same plot devices he used before.

Some wonder why loads of people call the flick lazy.

Do you honestly mean to tell me you could've seen Ra's making his attack on the city as public as Bane did? Trying to make a point about the rich/poor social divide as emphatically as Bane did? Drawing out Bruce's execution as long as Bane and Talia did?

Because I honestly can't, considering the very down-to-business nature of Ra's plan in BB. But perhaps you can enlighten me, it may be that we saw two different movies.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Yup no Batman fan wants to be let down by any Batman flick. But Rises was an epic failure to moi.

Quoted for truth.
Its nonsense that anyone that loved the first 2 films would want the last one to fail. Why would they? Yet some on the board say people are hating to hating. Ya, maybe there are, but they are probably just trolling. There is no way that I personally wanted this film to fail to live up to my expectations, but in the end it did and hard.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen

It reminds me more of how the rejected script for Michael Bay's upcoming TMNT movie was basically Transformers with turtles instead of robots.

The difference is these two movies are IN THE SAME SERIES!

TDKR was good, but a HUGE disappointment, simply because of Nolan and Goyer's laziness (it's more Goyer's fault that Nolan's, as he did the story for all three films). It was EMBARRASSINGLY lazy when you really think about it.

I don't think I'd call it embarrassingly lazy overall, but several parts of the script are very lazily written, and there is a lot of rehashing of old plot lines, and sloppy execution of others. But then there is some scenes that are very well written. It's jarring because you get glimpses of the potentially great movie we could have had on par with TDK or even BB.

It's definitely the weakest script of the trilogy, IMO.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Quoted for truth.
Its nonsense that anyone that loved the first 2 films would want the last one to fail. Why would they? Yet some on the board say people are hating to hating. Ya, maybe there are, but they are probably just trolling. There is no way that I personally wanted this film to fail to live up to my expectations, but in the end it did and hard.

Exactly.

[Riddle_Me_This]

Quoted for truth. The script was laced with laziness. Blake and his magic ability to deduce Batman's identity based on a look being the laziest and most stupid of them all.

Tim drake deduced batmans identity in a similar fashion in the comics. What's wrong with someone having a strong intuition?

Yup I noticed that. Bane's prologue was a copy of Joker's one. They even put in the Skyhook from the Hong Kong scene in TDK.

The skyhook is employed to tell the viewer that bane is as dedicated and capable as batman in his prime. The prologue certainly isn't a carbon copy just because it introduces the viewers to the central villain.

.



LOS didn't even need any wrapping up. Begins left diddly squat to tie up with them. The only things Begins left dangling was Crane on the loose and the Joker card, and TDK dealt with both of 'em.

In BB one rha's dies but every other league member knows who batman is. The evil they tried to bury rises.