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Old 12-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #501
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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I think it's a good movie. Definitely breaks the superhero threequel curse, but it's a big step down from BB and TDK. Watching TDKR made me appreciate them even more for being better movies.
After watching it several times on Blu-ray, I have come to appreciate it's qualities more. I was way too consumed in my disappointment back in July to give this film's qualities their due credit. However, what I perceived to be this film's flaws on first viewing remain unchanged, neither more or less. These flaws, alas, stick out like a sore thumb as ever and press the film back so that it never really soars. This film reminds a lot of Inception. Like it, this film almost crumbles under the weight of its own bloated exposition in the first third; where it differs from Inception however is that it never gains any lofty heights. Once you struggle through the dry first half of Inception, the second half is cinematic bliss. The stretch of montage that comprises the third act is the most impressive thing Nolan has ever done. TDKR, i feel, has a good third act, but not nearly good enough to reward us for patiently slugging through so much baggage as Inception did.

A 7/10 is what I feel is appropriate. I doubt this assessment will much change in the future.

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Old 12-08-2012, 07:36 PM   #502
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Nope, seen it 3 times already n still think 10/10 and better then the first two films.
Fudgie thinks people will see the flaws in the film because he hopes everyone will have the same opinion as he does, lol, but the very first time of what's been 12 times, I loved TDKR and it's been a 10/10 kind of film since.

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Old 12-08-2012, 08:34 PM   #503
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

I find that TDKR really gets cooking after the siege and never let's up much. Bruce climbing out of the pit is in many ways the emotional climax of the film. So this movie has a very different rhythm from the first two. I dug that.

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Old 12-08-2012, 08:40 PM   #504
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

If you were to divide the movie into 3 acts, where would you say act 1 stops and act 2 stops?

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Old 12-08-2012, 09:12 PM   #505
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

I suppose Act 1 ends with the breaking of the Bat.

Act 2 is the storming of Gotham / Bruce in the Pit.

Act 3 is Bruce getting back to Gotham / The "War".

I realize that Act 2 is probably much longer than Act 3.

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Old 12-08-2012, 09:31 PM   #506
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Acts 1 and 2 contain the film's strongest points for me.

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Old 12-08-2012, 10:06 PM   #507
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Acts 1 and 2 contain the film's strongest points for me.
I think the first act might be my favorite first act in the entire trilogy. Everything leading up to Bruce coming back as Batman through him meeting and becoming intrigued with Selina, to all of his allies either begging for him to come back, or in Alfred's case - not return as Batman, the sheer scary nature of Bane's underground army preparing for there attack on a very complacent Gotham. I just love it.

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Old 12-08-2012, 10:15 PM   #508
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

The most compelling scene is the first fight between Bane and Batman.

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Old 12-08-2012, 10:16 PM   #509
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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The most compelling scene is the first fight between Bane and Batman.
That, and Batman's first return. I could watch those two scenes over and over.

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Old 12-08-2012, 10:18 PM   #510
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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If you were to divide the movie into 3 acts, where would you say act 1 stops and act 2 stops?
I think you could make the argument that Act 1 ends the moment Alfred leaves Bruce. It's a more subtle act break though...we're most definitely in Act 2 once Bane breaks Batman. I would say Act 2 ends when Bruce climbs out of the pit.

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I suppose Act 1 ends with the breaking of the Bat.

Act 2 is the storming of Gotham / Bruce in the Pit.

Act 3 is Bruce getting back to Gotham / The "War".

I realize that Act 2 is probably much longer than Act 3.
Totally normal, Act 2 is always the longest act of a movie

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Old 12-09-2012, 12:45 AM   #511
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Act 1 and 2 set you up emotionally; Act 3 knocks it all down whereas Act 3 in TDK did more with your emotions (the magnificent scene between Two-Face, Bats and Gordon).

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Old 12-09-2012, 04:04 AM   #512
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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After watching it several times on Blu-ray, I have come to appreciate it's qualities more. I was way too consumed in my disappointment back in July to give this film's qualities their due credit. However, what I perceived to be this film's flaws on first viewing remain unchanged, neither more or less. These flaws, alas, stick out like a sore thumb as ever and press the film back so that it never really soars. This film reminds a lot of Inception. Like it, this film almost crumbles under the weight of its own bloated exposition in the first third; where it differs from Inception however is that it never gains any lofty heights. Once you struggle through the dry first half of Inception, the second half is cinematic bliss. The stretch of montage that comprises the third act is the most impressive thing Nolan has ever done. TDKR, i feel, has a good third act, but not nearly good enough to reward us for patiently slugging through so much baggage as Inception did.

A 7/10 is what I feel is appropriate. I doubt this assessment will much change in the future.
That happened to me in the sense that I appreciated the stuff I liked even more, like Anne Hathaway as Selina, the Bane fights, the Bruce/Alfred scenes etc.

Unfortunately the stuff I disliked was also highlighted even worse. I've watched it twice since I bought it. And my stance has not changed. It's has not gotten better or worse for me since my viewings back in July. I'd rather that then it coming off even worse.

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Old 12-09-2012, 05:51 AM   #513
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

watching it atm, still love it as much as i did when i first saw it
looks amazing on blu ray also, so much detail

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Old 12-09-2012, 06:03 AM   #514
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i enjoyed this film a lot. but it's incredibly sloppy, especially with the editing. it's also strangely paced and the screenplay seems like it could have done with a bit more fine tuning.

the day to night in under 8 minutes in the stock exchange scene is just amazingly sloppy for a big budget film directed by someone like nolan. and the final act and everything leading up to it seems very disjointed. we keep cutting from bruce in the pit back to gotham back to bruce in the pit back to gotham numerous times with no real sense of the time frame. and with the finale being so break neck the twist and the demise of bane and talia just seems too rushed. i think a lot of fat could have been cut out of the middle sections which would have allowed the final act to breathe a little bit. the film is also still plagued with some strange dialogue. why does the clean slate need to be explained to a character who knows what it is anyway? and the exchange of dialogue between modine's character (who is perhaps the single worst character in this entire trilogy, writing and acting wise) and the guy at the stock exchange about the nature of the stock market and the money was incredibly on the nose and silly.

i'd say it's a film driven by it's great performances and set pieces. it's the best performance bale has given as batman, by quite a margin. he goes through all the emotions and does it well. hathaway is stunning as catwoman. sexy, smart, witty and unpredictable. hardy as bane was also fantastic, although at first i didn't like the voice he chose, it definitely grew on me. i loved the scene where bane broke batman, even if the actual combat was disappointingly average. hardy was clearly having a lot of fun taunting batman there.

overall i'd give this film a solid 8. there is a lot to like about it. but in the end, it's very, very sloppy on a technical film making level. not enough to ruin my enjoyment of it however. although i don't think it will hold up to repeat viewings.

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Old 12-09-2012, 06:36 AM   #515
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Our movie tickets and consumer video purchases should have come with a timeline of all the time jumps in the movie. I made a very large list of them the other day and there's the chance I might have missed some.

I agree the execution isn't up to Nolan's previous standards. The fight choreography isn't incredible, the sound effects people did what they could to paper over some of the flaws so I tip my hat to them.

The appearing, disappearing, reappearing, disappearing hand on Bruce's cane during his first meeting with Fox is something you can't unsee when you see it.

I just caught some awkward editing during Talia's reveal where her upright head is facing Batman, then it's tilted off to the side in less than the blink of an eye.

A lot or most movies have continuity errors but I usually suck at finding them. I noticed the night I first saw the movie that stuff felt wrong such as the Miranda, Bruce, Lucius, and Selina scene. Later I found out that in the old script it was in a different position in the movie. I should have never have felt that way on my first viewing but I knew it felt wrong right away.


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Old 12-09-2012, 07:02 AM   #516
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

some could say it's nit picking but in my view, competent editing and scene transitions are the backbone, the foundation of a film. particularly scene transitions. this film wasn't up to scratch in that department. so what is left is a series of stunning set pieces and great performances that are not matched by the screenplay and actual mechanics of the film.

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Old 12-09-2012, 09:26 AM   #517
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

I think the day to night thing for the stock exchange happened for one reason: the stock exchange closes at like 4pm, but Batman's return had to be at night. To the movie's credit, it did show a dusk transition shot, and then cut to Daggett's apartment where he's watching the chase on the news and it's night. This was a decent way to imply a time jump because it's easier to accept time jumps if you're jumping between locations too. And Nolan has definitely used montage style editing in his action sequences in the past, the TDK chase scene comes to mind.

The movie uses similar techniques to make the longer time jumps work. That wide shot of Blake walking up to Wayne Manor after the back breaking scene has leaves falling to establish the season. Autumn is further established by setting up that it's football season. So the moment we see snow on the ground in Gotham, we know that a significant amount of time has passed.

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Old 12-09-2012, 09:29 AM   #518
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

the problem with that is though, it all had to happen within 8 minutes movie time due to the timer on bane's computer. all films have gaffes, but that was a pretty huge and noticeable one, especially for a film like this.

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Old 12-09-2012, 09:42 AM   #519
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

True. I guess I chalk it up more to an exaggerated sense of time for dramatic effect as opposed to a continuity error, since they did establish a dusk transition.

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Old 12-09-2012, 09:43 AM   #520
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that's fair. it was a cool scene overall though. the sight of batman being chased by hundreds of squad cars then emerging out of that alley in the bat was impressive.

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Old 12-09-2012, 11:46 AM   #521
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Not to defend Rises here but all of Nolan's big budget films have sloppy editing in them. Especially awkward scene transitions in TDK. To my surprise, I found Rises to be Nolan's smoothest film, the day-to-night fumble at the stock market notwithstanding. All the pacing problem comes from the script.

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:16 PM   #522
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat View Post

The appearing, disappearing, reappearing, disappearing hand on Bruce's cane during his first meeting with Fox is something you can't unsee when you see it.

I just caught some awkward editing during Talia's reveal where her upright head is facing Batman, then it's tilted off to the side in less than the blink of an eye.

A lot or most movies have continuity errors but I usually suck at finding them. I noticed the night I first saw the movie that stuff felt wrong such as the Miranda, Bruce, Lucius, and Selina scene. Later I found out that in the old script it was in a different position in the movie. I should have never have felt that way on my first viewing but I knew it felt wrong right away.
A piece of advice. Dont start to pay attention to these continuity erros in Scorsese movies...or else you will never be the same

Continuity is a very small part of editing. Its very much discarded by a stronger image . I said Scorsese , i could said a lot of other directors. In his case , well Thelma Schoonmaker is a legend , and her movies collaborations are full of these sort of thing.

I actually think Lee Smith's editing in this movie is nowhere near as good as his previous collaborations with Nolan. But its the not the continuity that bugs me.


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Old 12-09-2012, 04:44 PM   #523
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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i enjoyed this film a lot. but it's incredibly sloppy, especially with the editing. it's also strangely paced and the screenplay seems like it could have done with a bit more fine tuning.

the day to night in under 8 minutes in the stock exchange scene is just amazingly sloppy for a big budget film directed by someone like nolan. and the final act and everything leading up to it seems very disjointed. we keep cutting from bruce in the pit back to gotham back to bruce in the pit back to gotham numerous times with no real sense of the time frame. and with the finale being so break neck the twist and the demise of bane and talia just seems too rushed. i think a lot of fat could have been cut out of the middle sections which would have allowed the final act to breathe a little bit. the film is also still plagued with some strange dialogue. why does the clean slate need to be explained to a character who knows what it is anyway? and the exchange of dialogue between modine's character (who is perhaps the single worst character in this entire trilogy, writing and acting wise) and the guy at the stock exchange about the nature of the stock market and the money was incredibly on the nose and silly.

i'd say it's a film driven by it's great performances and set pieces. it's the best performance bale has given as batman, by quite a margin. he goes through all the emotions and does it well. hathaway is stunning as catwoman. sexy, smart, witty and unpredictable. hardy as bane was also fantastic, although at first i didn't like the voice he chose, it definitely grew on me. i loved the scene where bane broke batman, even if the actual combat was disappointingly average. hardy was clearly having a lot of fun taunting batman there.

overall i'd give this film a solid 8. there is a lot to like about it. but in the end, it's very, very sloppy on a technical film making level. not enough to ruin my enjoyment of it however. although i don't think it will hold up to repeat viewings.
Ditto. Your review pretty much sums up my feeling on the film.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:39 PM   #524
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I think the day to night thing for the stock exchange happened for one reason: the stock exchange closes at like 4pm, but Batman's return had to be at night. To the movie's credit, it did show a dusk transition shot, and then cut to Daggett's apartment where he's watching the chase on the news and it's night. This was a decent way to imply a time jump because it's easier to accept time jumps if you're jumping between locations too. And Nolan has definitely used montage style editing in his action sequences in the past, the TDK chase scene comes to mind.

The movie uses similar techniques to make the longer time jumps work. That wide shot of Blake walking up to Wayne Manor after the back breaking scene has leaves falling to establish the season. Autumn is further established by setting up that it's football season. So the moment we see snow on the ground in Gotham, we know that a significant amount of time has passed.



Exactly. The transition at the end of stock exchange scene and Batmans return wasn't as blatant as I originally thought. The dusk transition during that scene was apparent.

That was really my only main gripe on the editing and yes the detail and crispness of TDKR Blue Ray is just fantastic!

Plus, do some people expect Nolan to do something silly and spell out on the bottom during each time jump..." 1 month later, 3 months later or 6 months later or something?

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:44 PM   #525
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You asked for scale. That's on an even bigger scale, plus it's a plot with the League.

Just saying there is precedent for Bane to do things besides break Batman's back and take over the criminal underworld. I think he fit the military leader role like a glove. Bane is all about demonstration of power, and was known for being a master strategist too.


Exactly.

They established in the beginning with the CIA douche that Bane already had a very formidable reputation within the mercenary/terrorist world.

Alfred clarifies this even more later when he tells Bruce more about him after doing research on Bane.

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