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Old 12-10-2012, 01:39 PM   #551
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Nice to see the film getting the deserved praise. Loved the movie and still today cant understand some hate for a tremendous trilogy ending.

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Old 12-10-2012, 01:44 PM   #552
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That is great!

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:28 PM   #553
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

It seems film aficionados and cinephiles appreciate TDKR more than the overall Batman fan community. That is really ironic when one thinks about it.

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:31 PM   #554
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

I feel like the critics and general public have absolutely LOVED this film in general...

I don't know why Bat fans are so icy towards it. It may have it's flaws, but for a third movie Nolan did a masterful job.

It really is Nolan's Batman Returns.

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:39 PM   #555
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

I think it's two-fold. Partly, it's because TDKR is simply not as good as TDK. That failure to be as good as its last one hurts it with Academy voters who are already lukewarm on anything popular anyways and with fans who get disappointed when any movie isn't the best ever in its series. The major reason though, IMO, is because TDKR is the least faithful to the comics of the three. Batman retires twice. He straight up quits being Batman at the end to live with Selina Kyle in Europe thereby negating the possibility he will experience much of the comic book mythos while giving a definitive conclusion to Bruce Wayne's unending story of the comics. It's also implied a non-Dick Grayson, Tim Drake or Terry McGuinness named character will become Batman when he doesn't exist in the comics. Lastly, Batman in costume only appears for about 1/6 of the film's nearly 3-hour running time.

It is still a very excellent film in its own right, but between being a lesser movie than its predecessor and also being relatively unfaithful to the comics, it is being disowned. When the reboot comes it will be used as the excuse to bash all of the Nolan movies for being overrated.

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:46 PM   #556
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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I think it's two-fold. Partly, it's because TDKR is simply not as good as TDK. That failure to be as good as its last one hurts it with Academy voters who are already lukewarm on anything popular anyways and with fans who get disappointed when any movie isn't the best ever in its series. The major reason though, IMO, is because TDKR is the least faithful to the comics of the three. Batman retires twice. He straight up quits being Batman at the end to live with Selina Kyle in Europe thereby negating the possibility he will experience much of the comic book mythos while giving a definitive conclusion to Bruce Wayne's unending story of the comics. It's also implied a non-Dick Grayson, Tim Drake or Terry McGuinness named character will become Batman when he doesn't exist in the comics. Lastly, Batman in costume only appears for about 1/6 of the film's nearly 3-hour running time.

It is still a very excellent film in its own right, but between being a lesser movie than its predecessor and also being relatively unfaithful to the comics, it is being disowned. When the reboot comes it will be used as the excuse to bash all of the Nolan movies for being overrated.
This is ironic since to me it is the one that really feels like an epic comic book adventure.

Good analysis, nonetheless.

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:51 PM   #557
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

That's true... I guess I can forgive those blemishes because I wanted Nolan to tell HIS story, in whatever fashion he wanted. Nothing is taboo with Batman and i'm glad Nolan dared to be original.

I have a feeling Nolan's series will be in for a kicking when the reboot (possibly Arkham City-esque) rolls around though.

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:57 PM   #558
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

I am glad Nolan made those changes and did something original. But yes, the kicking is inevitable.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:06 PM   #559
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

Thats awesome that it got picked by AFI. The film is great. Also, its funny, because most critics and GA think this is the MOST comic booky Nolan film(we get a scene with three masked characters), but some of the Batman fans are annoyed by the ending. However, I think its a great non-canon story of a slightly different interpretation of Bruce Wayne/Batman.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:19 PM   #560
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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The only major difference between Nolan's trilogy and Harry Potter is that whether overt or implicit, Nolan's trilogy has had an impact on the "upper" awards at the Academy before in a previous entry. Heath Ledger won a Best Supporting Actor Oscar which was deserved (even if we want to get into the politics of why he actually got it) and was an explicit nod to the film/trilogy. They then changed their format in 2009 to include 10 nominees because of the monumental backlash for snubbing TDK in 2008 from a BP nomination (especially when it was more worthy than at least three of the films nominated). There is the implicit history. Harry Potter was never once recognized or famously snubbed in such a way.

However, I do agree that this by no means improves TDKR. At the end of the day, I don't think any of the fanboy films this year (TDKR, Skyfall and especially Avengers) will get nominated. I'm just saying why I thought TDKR has a better chance than the other two. Anyway, all three are vastly superior to Avatar. If that can get a nomination, any of these three should. And that's coming from someone who doesn't think Avengers should be nominated.

Just my speculation.
Yep all the movies are better than Avatar so that's good.

Spider-Man 2 was also in AFI's top ten list in 2004. Just thought I'd mention that.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:25 PM   #561
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Thats awesome that it got picked by AFI. The film is great. Also, its funny, because most critics and GA think this is the MOST comic booky Nolan film(we get a scene with three masked characters), but some of the Batman fans are annoyed by the ending. However, I think its a great non-canon story of a slightly different interpretation of Bruce Wayne/Batman.
I hate posting back to back but what the hell. I liked the ending and very much enjoyed the reimagined Robin and not just because I stalk JGL..er um I don't get the hate for those two things. Now I had millions of problems with the film and ultimately think that it's nothing special but those two controversial things I like.

I do hope that the next Bat film series is a little more fantasy based though.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:27 PM   #562
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Spider-Man 2 was also in AFI's top ten list in 2004. Just thought I'd mention that.
It deserved it, IMO. TDK also made their top 10 in 2008.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:32 PM   #563
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

There's really no need for any kicking. Liking something and respecting something are two different things. And Nolan definitely at the very least deserves respect from the fans for how much dignity he brought to the character of Batman. He, his brother and Goyer clearly have a deep reverence for the character and they came up with an awesome modern and complete vision for it.

And for a movie that's the "least" faithful, it certainly seemed to have the most homages to specific events from the comics, the back break being perhaps one of the closest panel to film translations ever in a Batman movie.

No matter how much certain fans try to be revisionist, these movies will mark a very significant chapter in Batman's history, just like Burton's films did. You just have to tip your hat to this team at the end of the day. They did something special.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:32 PM   #564
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

The comic book films to appear in AFI's top 10 lists are:

The Dark Knight Rises(2012)
The Dark Knight(2008)
Iron Man(2008)
Spiderman 2(2004)

Ironically, those are four of my favorite comic book films with BB, The Avengers, Watchmen, Spiderman, TIH and X:FC rounding out the top 10.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #565
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Spider-Man 2 was also in AFI's top ten list in 2004. Just thought I'd mention that.
I watched that recently...

I forgot just how damn good it was.

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Old 12-10-2012, 04:31 PM   #566
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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It deserved it, IMO. TDK also made their top 10 in 2008.
All three deserved it as well with Iron Man.

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Old 12-10-2012, 05:11 PM   #567
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Spider-Man 2 was also in AFI's top ten list in 2004. Just thought I'd mention that.
I wasn't a big fan of Doc Ock's motivations.

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Old 12-10-2012, 06:53 PM   #568
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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I wasn't a big fan of Doc Ock's motivations.
Okay. The movie wasn't perfect and niether are any of the Nolan Bat films.

I forgot that Iron Man made it in 2008. The just proves that AFI's top ten doesn't mean Oscar nom for best picture.

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:04 PM   #569
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Thats awesome that it got picked by AFI. The film is great. Also, its funny, because most critics and GA think this is the MOST comic booky Nolan film(we get a scene with three masked characters), but some of the Batman fans are annoyed by the ending. However, I think its a great non-canon story of a slightly different interpretation of Bruce Wayne/Batman.
But what is canon really? The comics change constantly, and every interpretation brings something new, which is enriching. For me, The Dark Knight Trilogy is as canon as the DCAU. They are different, but I love them.

And disliking the ending is something that truly baffles me, specially coming from the fans. But then again, all people are different. All in all, the trilogy is a good, well rounded representation of the Batman mythos over the years. Generally speaking, we had it all.

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:21 PM   #570
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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It seems film aficionados and cinephiles appreciate TDKR more than the overall Batman fan community. That is really ironic when one thinks about it.
Same thing happened with Batman Returns, which received stronger reviews than B89 but received a more polarized reaction from diehard Batman fans.

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:26 PM   #571
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Same thing happened with Batman Returns, which received stronger reviews than B89 but received a more polarized reaction from diehard Batman fans.
Batman Returns also got a backlash for being too dark and violent for kids. It's why the series went campy unfortunately!

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:31 PM   #572
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Batman Returns also got a backlash for being too dark and violent for kids. It's why the series went campy unfortunately!
Yeah, soccer moms hated that black blood gushing out of the Penguin, plus the whole child kidnapping scheme.

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:51 PM   #573
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

I remember a while back here discussing whether TDKR would end up getting the blockbuster spot in the best picture category over the Hobbit and based on the critical reception to the hobbit it certainly seems like won't be among the best pic noms.

What that does for TDKR best pic chances? it can't hurt it i suppose?

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Old 12-10-2012, 08:09 PM   #574
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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I remember a while back here discussing whether TDKR would end up getting the blockbuster spot in the best picture category over the Hobbit and based on the critical reception to the hobbit it certainly seems like won't be among the best pic noms.

What that does for TDKR best pic chances? it can't hurt it i suppose?
Hobbit getting mediocre reception won't hurt. Les Mis getting mediocre reception also won't hurt. I still think Skyfall is more likely to get the Oscar "blockbuster spot." AFI is likely counting Skyfall as a British film instead of American film, so they didn't include it in their list. Funny thing is Skyfall is just as American as TDKR (both funded by Hollywood).

When it comes time to do Oscar nominations, there is a pretty big contingency of British Academy voters who will likely support Skyfall. TDKR is not likely to have the same kind of support from American Academy voters. Neither film stands a good chance of getting nominated, but I would give Skyfall the better odds.

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Old 12-10-2012, 08:14 PM   #575
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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There's really no need for any kicking. Liking something and respecting something are two different things. And Nolan definitely at the very least deserves respect from the fans for how much dignity he brought to the character of Batman. He, his brother and Goyer clearly have a deep reverence for the character and they came up with an awesome modern and complete vision for it.

And for a movie that's the "least" faithful, it certainly seemed to have the most homages to specific events from the comics, the back break being perhaps one of the closest panel to film translations ever in a Batman movie.

No matter how much certain fans try to be revisionist, these movies will mark a very significant chapter in Batman's history, just like Burton's films did. You just have to tip your hat to this team at the end of the day. They did something special.
Well said, great post.

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