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Old 12-10-2012, 12:03 PM   #1
BenKenobi
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Default The Emperor? What will happen next?

Theres been a lot of talk about the mandalorians and black sun being new potential antagonists, but given that the new films are based off the outlines for the original Sequel Trilogy (Lukes sister learning to become a Jedi, defeating the Emperor), this most likely won't happen. Also from the view point of a narrative, it wouldn't make much sense if the third act, which is supposed to be the climax, has nothing to do with the antagonists and conflicts of the first two acts.

So that being said, the villain will most likely be some kind of grand sith, perhaps even beyond Palpatine. Any ideas on how this could work, or any other ideas on who you think the new villains of Star Wars will be?

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Old 12-10-2012, 12:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

Since the concept of "bringing balance to the force" was introduced in the new movies new Sith would be pretty dumb. But that's a pretty problematic thing with virtually everything. That's why I've always felt that those "Dark Empire" comics were plain retarded from a story POV, although I liked them and unlike most of the other Star Wars material (actually haven't read much EU stuff, played a few games) it feels like the old movies. Plain retarded because it makes Episode 6 kinda pointless.

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Old 12-10-2012, 01:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

There likely won't be another Sith in the new trilogy. Dark Jedi I can see...but it's just too early to reintroduce the Sith.

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

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Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore View Post
Since the concept of "bringing balance to the force" was introduced in the new movies new Sith would be pretty dumb. But that's a pretty problematic thing with virtually everything. That's why I've always felt that those "Dark Empire" comics were plain retarded from a story POV, although I liked them and unlike most of the other Star Wars material (actually haven't read much EU stuff, played a few games) it feels like the old movies. Plain retarded because it makes Episode 6 kinda pointless.
In no way do I want Palpatine to return, in my opinion that totally ruins the power of Vaders sacrifice. While I'm not big on the prequels, I did like how Palpatine was finally getting it for manipulating Anakin his whole life. Personally I wouldn't mind if they just dumped the whole "balance to the force" idea out the window.

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I don't think it is a given that the new films are based off the original treatments for the sequel trilogy. As you even mention yourself they were about defeating the Emperor. Considering that storyline is over and Lukes sister turned about to Leia, I'd say the original ideas are going to have to be changed quite a bit.

Considering how little Lucas had planned out for even the prequels, I doubt his concepts for the sequel trilogy were that detailed anyways.
He had a basic outline for the sequels, as both he and Gary Kurtz agreed on doing them (while Kurtz was not a big fan of the concept of prequels as a whole). Plus I read an article that said Disney was basing them off of Lucas's outline for the sequel trilogy. So it will probably have elements of them.

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There likely won't be another Sith in the new trilogy. Dark Jedi I can see...but it's just too early to reintroduce the Sith.
Maybe not a Sith, but I doubt it will be a Dark Jedi. Think about it from a story perspective. It would be like if in the Avengers 2 they go from Loki and the Alien Army to the Iron Monger. It's just anti climactic. I was thinking Perhaps something new we have never heard of? After all Disney now has much more freedom than any of the EU writers ever had.

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

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There likely won't be another Sith in the new trilogy. Dark Jedi I can see...but it's just too early to reintroduce the Sith.
Okay, so this is going to sound really stupid, but I've never read any EU stuff. What exactly is a "Dark Jedi"? I've seen the word get thrown around a lot recently. How is it different/similar to a Sith?

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

Maybe the Jedi are wrapping up a win against the Mandos or Black Sun in EP 7 that leads into a Jedi Civil War in EP 8 and totally wraps up in EP 9.

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Old 12-10-2012, 08:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

There are only two options moving forward.

1. The truth about the "power" of the dark side is shown when Palpatine returns from the dead by using a cloned body and taking on a new apprentice.

2. It is learned that there were other pairs of Sith lords in the shadows in the galaxy the whole time. This would mean there are not just two Sith in the whole galaxy, but unlike the Jedi, they do not interact with or desire to be known to one another.

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Okay, so this is going to sound really stupid, but I've never read any EU stuff. What exactly is a "Dark Jedi"? I've seen the word get thrown around a lot recently. How is it different/similar to a Sith?
It's BS expanded universe terminology for Jedi that become Sith without any connection to the Sith or knowledge of the dark side; which is passed down from master to apprentice.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

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It's BS expanded universe terminology for Jedi that become Sith without any connection to the Sith or knowledge of the dark side; which is passed down from master to apprentice.
I disagree on it being BS. Why couldn't a Jedi fall to the dark side and go with his own motivations. The dark side a Sith does not make. Sith indeed have formal training in the dark side and have their own code and ways. A Dark Jedi would still rely on their Jedi training, but to the extreme, likely with little reserve and for their own personal gains rather than defense and for the good of others.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

I could see Luke starting a new Jedi order, and there being some bad apples.

Though really, I'd like a villain who isn't completely evil.

Not Jedi or Sith. Something in between.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

If Palps must return, I'd prefer it be very temporary. Palpatine would take the new villain under his wing, only to be utterly curbstomped by him/her.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

Just another note, Anakin brought balance to the force, not because he destroyed the Sith, but because he destroyed the Sith and the Jedi, he left a clean slate. So in theory there could easily still be users of the Dark Side, that have emerged in the past 30 years.

Also another idea, maybe Darth Plagues? Have him "cheat death" and come back stronger and more evil than Palpatine ever was, and just make him like Satan (Which would be hard as Palpatine was pretty much this in Jedi).

I don't know, it's quite the conundrum figuring this whole thing out, especially since Jedi ties everything up so neatly. The best option I can think of is revealing some great evil, that somehow ties together, Obi-Wan, Luke, and the new protagonist, and brings the third act of the trillogies to it's climax and most urgent state.

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Old 12-11-2012, 02:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

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Originally Posted by thorstone View Post
There are only two options moving forward.

1. The truth about the "power" of the dark side is shown when Palpatine returns from the dead by using a cloned body and taking on a new apprentice.
So, a mediocre rehash...

Quote:
2. It is learned that there were other pairs of Sith lords in the shadows in the galaxy the whole time. This would mean there are not just two Sith in the whole galaxy, but unlike the Jedi, they do not interact with or desire to be known to one another.
...or Highlander 3.

Thank God your ideas are so absurd that they won't happen. That makes you an entertaining individual.

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Old 12-11-2012, 02:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

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Originally Posted by CoolCadaver49 View Post
Okay, so this is going to sound really stupid, but I've never read any EU stuff. What exactly is a "Dark Jedi"? I've seen the word get thrown around a lot recently. How is it different/similar to a Sith?
Ignoring throstone's biased explanation, a Dark Jedi is technically someone who has absolutely no problem using Dark Side powers, but is not affiliated to the Jedi or the Sith. As the Sith have certain disciplines and teachings that are the yang to the Jedi's creed, the Dark Jedi are entirely different. A DJ can become a Sith or a Jedi, though, if he/she wants to follow the teachings of that Order which he/she chooses.

The concept of the DJ somehow goes against the whole black/white aspect of the Force that Lucas intended to establish. For him, if you fall to the Dark Side, you're Sith. And that's it. The EU, as with everything SW, makes things a bit greyer.

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Old 12-11-2012, 02:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

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Originally Posted by BenKenobi View Post
Just another note, Anakin brought balance to the force, not because he destroyed the Sith, but because he destroyed the Sith and the Jedi, he left a clean slate. So in theory there could easily still be users of the Dark Side, that have emerged in the past 30 years.

Also another idea, maybe Darth Plagues? Have him "cheat death" and come back stronger and more evil than Palpatine ever was, and just make him like Satan (Which would be hard as Palpatine was pretty much this in Jedi).

I don't know, it's quite the conundrum figuring this whole thing out, especially since Jedi ties everything up so neatly. The best option I can think of is revealing some great evil, that somehow ties together, Obi-Wan, Luke, and the new protagonist, and brings the third act of the trillogies to it's climax and most urgent state.
The best way is to introduce new villains. The only connection to what's already there can be the returning cast/heroes.


Last edited by Gianakin_; 12-11-2012 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

I'd like the new big villain to be hinted at. Maybe a Blofield type character where he's teased throughout a few films before being revealed.

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Old 12-11-2012, 03:28 AM   #16
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

I would like to see the Emperor going into spectral form like Obi Wan Kenobi and becoming an insidious, evil manipulator and taunter.

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Old 12-11-2012, 08:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

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Originally Posted by CoolCadaver49 View Post
Okay, so this is going to sound really stupid, but I've never read any EU stuff. What exactly is a "Dark Jedi"? I've seen the word get thrown around a lot recently. How is it different/similar to a Sith?
Do you watch the Clone Wars? So..there are the two Sith (Sidious and Duku) then there are other characters that follow the dark side, but are not actual Sith (since there can be only two) In the case of the Clone Wars that would be Ventress, Maul, etc...

Basically, Dark Jedi (actually I think Dark Sider users would be more appropriate) are beings that use the dark side of the Force, but are independent from the Sith.

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Old 12-11-2012, 09:00 AM   #18
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Ignoring throstone's biased explanation, a Dark Jedi is technically someone who has absolutely no problem using Dark Side powers, but is not affiliated to the Jedi or the Sith. As the Sith have certain disciplines and teachings that are the yang to the Jedi's creed, the Dark Jedi are entirely different. A DJ can become a Sith or a Jedi, though, if he/she wants to follow the teachings of that Order which he/she chooses.

The concept of the DJ somehow goes against the whole black/white aspect of the Force that Lucas intended to establish. For him, if you fall to the Dark Side, you're Sith. And that's it. The EU, as with everything SW, makes things a bit greyer.
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Do you watch the Clone Wars? So..there are the two Sith (Sidious and Duku) then there are other characters that follow the dark side, but are not actual Sith (since there can be only two) In the case of the Clone Wars that would be Ventress, Maul, etc...

Basically, Dark Jedi (actually I think Dark Sider users would be more appropriate) are beings that use the dark side of the Force, but are independent from the Sith.
I've never seen the Clone Wars, but thank you both for the detailed explanation. I think that works in the EU, but in the context of the movie, it seems like splitting hairs. Mostly because we haven't really seen what the Sith's values/traditions are, so there wouldn't really be anything there for a Dark Jedi to defy. To me and most general audiences, Dark Side = Evil Jedi, and evil Jedi = Sith.

So, I'm not criticizing the EU, I'm just saying I don't think that kind of distinction will work in the future movies, unless the order of the Sith is retroactively fleshed out.

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Old 12-11-2012, 01:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

I imagine Dark Jedi is a concept that would be quickly picked up by the GA. To give a superhero example, since this is the Hype, a Dark Jedi would be like Catwoman, Punisher, Red Hood or any other vigilante. They do things that are on the side of the light, but through methods that are on the dark side.

It's why I like the story of Jacen Solo.

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Old 12-11-2012, 03:41 PM   #20
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But that contradicts the entire plot of Anakin's fall, does it not? I mean, the guy pretty much got tricked into being evil. If he could have used the Dark Side to save Padme and stayed a jedi, then he would have.

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Old 12-11-2012, 04:46 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

No, the Sith is essentially a philosophy, just like being a Jedi. Some powers can only be discovered through the following of those creeds (Jedi- life after death/Sith- prolong life), but what about the people who are neither Jedi nor Sith and follow neither philosophy? They walk the line between the two and can access both the light and dark without following either.


EDIT- An example could be Starkiller as you progress through The Force Unleashed, he's not someone who you would define as a bad guy, he's certainly not Sith, but he uses dark side powers, like Luke did in Jedi when he choked a b-tch.

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Old 12-11-2012, 06:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

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The best way is to introduce new villains. The only connection to what's already there can be the returning cast/heroes.
Sure but some retconning will be needed.

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Old 12-11-2012, 11:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

I still like the idea of a politician like character who doesn't like Luke, and his new Jedi Order(if that's even how they're going with the movie), and in wishing to get rid of them again makes a deal with the devil to have them all killed. It'd turn bad though, and the politician would get offed, and the unknown threat he made a deal with makes the galaxy know it's pressence with an army the New Republic has never dealt with before or something like that.

Or maybe the villain could be a guy who doesn't want the Jedi Order protecting the new Republic, and thinks he knows better, but his views don't necessarily make him pure evil. With all of that going on though, another threat that is evil is unleashed forcing the guy, and his forces to work together with the Jedi Order to fight them, and in doing so they each learn from each other to better themselves.

I don't want the Emperor brought back though. I think that'd be a step back if they were thinking about that.

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Old 12-11-2012, 11:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Emperor? What will happen next?

No matter who the new villain is, he/she should get the Emperor treatment and not be revealed until the end, and they should be part of a bigger picture. The biggest problem with the prequels (aside from Lucas writing them in the dark) was the huge focus on Darth Vader and the Jedi. The new films should have a smaller story that happens to feature Luke and the force, more like the originals.

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Old 12-12-2012, 12:22 AM   #25
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I still like the idea of a politician like character who doesn't like Luke, and his new Jedi Order(if that's even how they're going with the movie), and in wishing to get rid of them again makes a deal with the devil to have them all killed. It'd turn bad though, and the politician would get offed, and the unknown threat he made a deal with makes the galaxy know it's presence with an army the New Republic has never dealt with before or something like that.
I like this idea, even though it's (appropriately) really vague.

More than anything, I'm torn on just how much I want to see of Jedi. The idea of Luke rebuilding the temple is cool beans, but I'm afraid of things getting over-saturated with lightsabers, like with the PT.

I would be 100% against The Emperor coming back. I would have to strangle someone if that happened. Stuff like that and Luke turning Dark Side are why I avoid the EU...

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