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#201 |
REDACTED
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,000
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Yep but it would be nice to see him get some solid character development first and exit in style instead of being dumped unceremoniously ala Nightcrawler
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#202 | |
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Also, white people like black superheroes too, especially in team situations. X-Men exploded when they figured that out. So did Avengers, come to think of it. In fact, the only way DC could compete with Marvel's explosion was by putting together a diverse version of the Teen Titans. Like I said before, diversity isn't primarily for black people. I think you're drawing some really hard racial lines and you're not noticing there's plenty of black and white people on both sides.
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." |
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#203 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2011
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#204 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston, SC
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Hey, I have an idea.... let's make every topic on the board about race somehow!
I'm pretty sure changing the roster means different characters, not changing features of the existing characters. |
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#205 | |
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
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^But it does include changing existing characters at times: ie Nick Fury.
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Is there any theme that a minority character is not appropriate to explore?
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." Last edited by DrCosmic; 12-11-2012 at 06:04 PM. |
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#206 | ||
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2011
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#207 |
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Wait, if racially diverse is the extreme... what's the medium?
![]() The only reason I think it extends naturally is because that's what I see time and time again. Look at the X-Men or Avengers. Or any big popular bit of entertainment set in the modern day. Lots of diversity, but the Matrix isn't *about* cultural differences, any more than a story where people from different jobs work together is about their differences, but *all* differences make the story deeper and better. Now what you're saying is true for the opposite, stories that are about cultural differences and inequality are often nearly all white or all black (or all whatever ethnicity it's about), because that fits the story, which is about exclusion. Mad Men. Roots. Inclusion story -> Inclusion characters. Exclusion story -> Exclusion characters. On your example, we're not talking about starring roles, we're talking about inclusion as heroes. Rhodey being included, as an equal superhero no less is an example of diversity enhancing a story. You have two guys, good friends, different as night and day - on top of that, one of them is black and one is white, making them even more different. See how subtle that is? Then they both end up being armored heroes fighting back to back in different colored suits with different weapons. Its a simple little touch that adds a thousand nuances to the story, which is not about race. Black Fury does this same thing to an even higher level with even more nuances. Now, what is your basis for thinking differences in ethnicity and gender are less nuanced or complex than differences in jobs and clothing?
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." Last edited by DrCosmic; 12-11-2012 at 07:34 PM. |
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#208 | |
"Hi, honey..."
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#209 | |
Mercin' & Workin'
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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![]() Hawkeye's been a big Avenger in the comics for most of its run, he deserves to be one in the movies too!
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#210 |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
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Dr. Cosmic is on a roll tonight --- I'm 110% behind everything he's posted here today about diversity, especially in Avengers.
And I'm Venom, you keep digging that hole for yourself deeper and deeper. Best just to drop out of this altogether before you make it any worse. You're getting pretty damn close to burning crosses in this thread and you don't even realize it.
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THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
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#211 |
"Hi, honey..."
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Care to elaborate?
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#212 |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
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THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
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#213 |
Ultimate BAMF
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Africa
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Being a person of colour, I wanted to add my 2c in this, but then again I'll just take your advice, and end it here...
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#214 | |
Raining hell from above
Join Date: May 2011
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Well, we've already been told that we only go see Tyler Perry movies, that heroes of color (and women) are only shoehorned into movies and comics in an unnecessary attempt to make them more diverse (whatever that is), and that Black heroes in particular don't have interesting powers and won't draw an audience. What more is there to say?
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#215 |
Armored Avenger!
Join Date: May 2002
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Based on what we've heard so far, here's what I'm hoping we get:
Iron Man Captain America Thor Hulk AntMan Wasp Dr. Strange Others I'd like to see added: Luke Cage Vision The big problem is you don't want to lose the balance of the characters that they had in the first film. I'm guessing Joss will want to bring back Black Widow, as he really established her character, and might have fun with two female characters in the cast. To me Tony, Steve, Thor and Bruce all have to be there. They are the Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty of this series.
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There was an idea, to bring together a group of remarkable people, to see if we could become something more, so when they needed us, we could fight the battles, that they never could. |
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#216 | |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
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In the comics, the Avengers featured "The Big Three": Thor, Cap and Iron Man. Hulk was never officially a member and left the group after just 1.5 issues, although he always retained an honorary Avenger status. In the MCU, it seems pretty clear that they've bumped that up to "The Big Four," so I still expect to see Hulk as part of the team for many episodes to come.
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THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
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#217 |
You! You're not Sylvia!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
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Hulk is there when he wants to be, basically.
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If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses. - Henry Ford ----------- Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear." |
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#218 | |||
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2011
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You're initial post decried a lack of diversity for being people with identical characteristics/jobs etc providing no conflict or variation. Something which nobody was suggesting and indeed isn't seen in the not particularly diverse Avengers film consisting of five white men and a white woman. Then you immediately stepped to ethnic diversity as being a solution without regarding the situation in which a non culturally diverse cast can provide suitable variation in terms of storytelling. Surely you can see how I consider that disingenuous when presenting my argument?
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In a nutshell, they are genetically pre-determined characteristics that are shared identically between millions of people and aren't subject to change. It's entirely cosmetic. In real life, perhaps a person is defined more tangibly by their race/gender but in the context of fictional characters designed to turn together as gears in a larger machine, it's not as frequently relevant because the purpose they serve is twinned to whatever characteristic has suited them to the story. I refer back to Fury in the Avengers because I can make him white, hispanic, gay, a woman, whatever and not alter the character's role in the story. I couldn't change his personality or characterisation without re-writing the script, hence those things are more important. |
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#219 | |
REDACTED
Join Date: Mar 2005
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The RuffaHulk "accepted his curse, tries to aim it" persona is actually a pretty great fit for the Avengers, imo. |
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#220 | ||||||
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Going further, the perceived differences between blacks and whites can make a black character seem even more inscrutible. Then going further, with the association of black people with criminality, from news and sketch comedies and the like, which drives home the man in black archetype even further, as they are doing bad things. Here, race enhances the story. And then going further, the differences between he and Captain America, and he and Stark are even more dramatic because of their skin color difference, further adding to the contrast, as much as their wardrobe differences. Quote:
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I think LC has plenty to do regardless of his race, from having a kid with Bendis' fave to leading the New Avengers. Not my fave character either, but it's not like in the 70s when he was just a blaxploitation character. Nowadays he's doing more than most heroes.
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." Last edited by DrCosmic; 12-12-2012 at 05:00 PM. |
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#221 | |
"Hi, honey..."
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#222 |
Mercin' & Workin'
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You obviously don't understand Cap's character then. He's THE leader, no one could even imagine to rally the troops like Cap can. Cap also has a spirit unlike any other, there's a reason why he was the last one standing against Thanos.
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#223 | |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
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![]() And yeah, in addition to Cap being (most often, by a large margin) the de facto leader of the Avengers, his skill set and fighting style are very different from BP's. Cap is a rugged two-fisted pulp hero whose basic strategy usually boils down to: bash in the front door and come in throwing punches. T'challa, conversely, is a Batman-type who relies more on stealth and strategy.
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THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
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#224 | |
"Hi, honey..."
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#225 | |
I want to be Kate Bishop
Join Date: Aug 2011
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() 1. Black Widow is amazing. "Female presence" my butt. She was the one that ultimately defeated Loki. 2.Hawkeye shot the arrow to defeat him. And he is amazing. Because he is Hawkeye.
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