![]() |
![]() |
#376 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]() Quote:
I do mean individual connections more yes. Athough you understand what I mean, if I had a choice to deal with someone who might pull a prank or a bit of mischief with me, or someone who may decide to bash me and my people in the head with a large hammer, (not to mention eat ALL the pop tarts!) then I'd prefer to deal with the mischief maker any day.... ![]() So much for feeling better, btw. Gonna be a rough night apparently. ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#377 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#378 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]() Quote:
![]() as for what the other realms know, we don't know if they know anything about Loki's evil shenanigans, the royal family may have kept things quiet after his "death" in Thor 1, to try to keep more positive memories of Loki. and most other of the realms probably don't care about what happens on Midgard, or don't know, it's not like there is some tv news network or rag newspaper spilling all the royal family of Asgard's secrets all over the 9 realms. So really no way of knowing for sure what the other realms know about Thor's change and Loki's change in Thor 1, until Thor 2 comes out, likely the other realms would not know about either though. Last edited by elizah72; 12-10-2012 at 05:35 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#379 | |||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]()
Tom continues to drop very interesting quotes in his interviews...
starts talking Thor 2 at about 2:08 Quote:
Thor 2 talk starts at about 1:00 Quote:
![]() From the news thread... Quote:
Last edited by elizah72; 12-10-2012 at 05:23 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#380 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,072
|
![]()
Jon said:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#381 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
Yes, everything has been powered down in the MCU. However, Odin was in the Odinsleep when laufye tried to kill him, correct? Laufey didn't try to confront him in a powerful state. Of course odin isn't a galaxy buster in the mcu (don't think so lol) but with everyone scaled down, he still should be significantly more powerful than ANYONE. I mean, I know you haven't read much of the books, but to say otherwise is just well, its too out of character :P. I am not sure you are getting the point I am trying to get across. So I will try to make it so. Making Malekith as powerful as Odin in the MCU, or Odin being able to be killed by Malekith, or anything of the sort, would be like making Captain America as powerful as Thor in the MCU. Better put, it would be like scaling Thor down to captain america level in the MCU. That just simply shouldn't happen. yes, tohr has been downgraded from the books, but Thor is THAT much more powerful than cap, that even in the mcu, even when scaled down, they shouldn't be on the same level. That's how it is with Odin. Odin is SO FAR beyond any character introduced in the MCU, that scaling him down to say..thor's equal, or to malekith being able to fight him is. just ridiculous!! lol Odin isn't a guy who Thor can "give a good fight" Odin is a guy who is capable of taking on comic book versions of say, Thor, Hulk, Ironman, Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, Loki, Malekith at the same time. With EASE. Beta Ray Bill is on Thor's level, and he's busted planets. Odin has destroyed Galaxies as SIDE EFFECTS of his battles. Surtur destroyed a galaxy to forge twilight While Odin has been downgraded significantly, he still HAS to be the most powerful one. Like I said, it would be like making captain america as powerful as thor. Odin is that much more powerful, that they can't just put him on the same level as everyone else WITH OUT PIS (such as Odinsleep, yada yada) And we know he is more powerful. He's been in a weak state. But we saw what he's capable of a little bit. You could see the fear he struck into Thor's eyes when Odin was getting pissed, and about to give him daddy lessons. Odin spoke an enchantment into a hammer. He brought Thor back to life. He stripped Thor of ALL his powers. Completely turned him into a mortal. Odin is certainly the most powerful character in the MCU so far. and I quote Loki when talking about Odin in Thor 1 "The most powerful being in the 9 realms" Loki himself said it. and hell, if its anything, the official mcu wiki says Odin is by far the most powerful being introduced in the MCU so far. So yeah, Odin has been downscaled. Thor has been downscaled. The only character not downscaled from the books is Captain America. But with everyone being downscaled, Odin is STILL the most powerful being in the 9 realms. And even if he is downscaled, malekith being on his level, or hell, him being on thor's level is just wrong. I can PROMISE you, a lot of comic book fans will not be happy. I will be furious. But they aren't idiots, and I'm sure the only thing weakening Odin to someone else's level will be plot, like in the first movie. Cause yeah, though he isn't on his comic book power level (no one is except Cap), he certainly is, and sohuld be the most powerful character in the MCU yet.
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 Last edited by jaqua99; 12-10-2012 at 10:29 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#382 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
Cosmic Cubes>Any Skyfather. IF Odin is incapacited again, it will most likely be due to that, and not to another characters power
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#383 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,072
|
![]() Quote:
The other possible plot device I can think of is "dark magic". If Odin used it to conjure Thor to Earth, maybe it weakens him. Does that sound plausible given how any such "dark magic" is established in 616 and given Odin's abilities? It doesn't seem like there are many plot devices that can manage to weaken Odin. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#384 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
I really hope there won't be a weakened Odin. Whenever Surtur shows up, I think we will finally get a good display of Odin's destructive power. I mean, there HAS to be plot to keep Odin fom solving all the issues himself. But just cause there is PIS, doesn't mean Odin IS far more powerful than everyone introduced. I mean, he stripped Thor of his powers, that's a pretty damn powerful feat
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#385 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,072
|
![]() Quote:
Well, if dark energy is an unlikely culprit, I guess that leaves us with the Tesseract. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#386 | ||||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]() Quote:
![]() One thing I wondered about, and this may be my Loki fangirl talking, but hear me out. I mean, it's sort of disappointing to me that it's a supposedly very advanced civilization and all they can do for a person who has basically had an emotional/mental breakdown and commits crimes is throw them in prison and toss away the key (it would seem). So I wondered if Odin trying to use his power to straighten Loki out, and that could be part of his distraction at first. MCU Odin cares A LOT more about Loki than Comics Odin, and he blames himself for Loki's behavior to some extent I'm sure, so I find it hard to believe he wouldn't want to try to find a way to repair the damage if that's possible. For instance, I'm also not entirely sure that it won't be revealed that the staff/tesseract did have an effect over Loki during the time of Avengers and so Odin may have to deal with helping him get that out of his system (not that Loki still doesn't have issues!). Per the deleted scene Loki says "It effects everyone differently." I've previously wondered if it could be exacerbating Loki's fragile and very angry mental state. Clearly Odin's two ravens were there, watching the conversation between Loki and Thor for a reason, and it may have revealed to Odin how or why Loki's mental state had deteriorated so much (so much that he was lying to himself about what had happened back on Asgard). And Thor asks "who controls the would be king" indicating that he thinks Loki is being controlled by someone or something. This may be more of a hope, than what will happen, admittedly. ![]() Quote:
![]() Quote:
![]() Quote:
![]() and I think the most powerful being in the 9 realms line is in the deleted scene, no? So not necessarily MCU canon, but I do understand he should be that (otherwise he would not be king!) Last edited by elizah72; 12-11-2012 at 11:42 AM. |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#387 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#388 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]() Quote:
And a large part of figuring out plot, as important if not more important to what characters can or can't do and how powerful they are, is figuring out character motivation. Why would a character realistically do something? (as I tried to talk about some in the previous post). For instance, it has been brought up that the Tesseract is one of the few things that would probably be as powerful as Odin and could keep him out of the picture while Thor possibly takes over as King at least temporarily. But what legitimate reason does Odin have to mess with the Tesseract, and not just lock it away with all of his other dangerous toys? Maybe you can come up with some other reasons, but I do think that if Odin believes he can help Loki by fighting the Tesseract that would give him significant motivation to do so. It would also explain why Loki may seem very distressed and irrational in the beginning (per the Italy clips) but then later be stable enough to help Thor on whatever he needs help with (although still, I'm sure, full of mischief), and would also give Thor realistic motivation for why he might suddenly trust Loki and give him yet another chance. So... character motivation... character motivation... character motivation... ![]() And honestly I'm going to be terribly disappointed in Odin if he just locks Loki up and does nothing else to try to help him back onto a better path. He may not be his blood but he had Loki as a son almost as long as he had Thor, and he appeared to have cared for Loki, and mourned when he "died". I guarantee they will not be ignoring that relationship in Thor 2, it was too big a part of the first film, and too big a conflict to not resolve. It would be pretty outrageous to ignore it completely. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#389 | |
Banned User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere in the Southwest
Posts: 9,139
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#390 |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]()
I wouldn't be surprised if it is ignored. I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever. I could care less either way, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. The reaching out to loki needs to end. Thor did it in two movies, Odin is wise. Don't be surprised of Odin isn't very sympathetic towards Loki's actions. Thor, his "prized" son for a thousand years goes to jotenheim due to some classic loki manipulation, and Odin banishes Thor to teacg him humility. His other son loki who he loves, declared war on mankind, allied himself with thanos (who we can assume odin knows) and whateever else **** he did. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he just locks loki up for a while, his actions against thor's were strict. And loki's actions were far worse than Thor's.
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#391 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]()
See this is where this trying to figure out plot here gets really frustrating for me. I really feel this is a legitimate idea that could fit quite neatly into the puzzle but when people despise a character this much it's impossible for them to think he could be written any other way. and yes, I understand you despise him in a love to hate him kind of way, but still you despise him and can't see him written any other way and that is frustrating when trying to figure out plot because the writers and Marvel can do whatever they want with him. They don't have to exactly follow what's been done in the comics or mythology already. They already haven't so I think it's likely they won't do the same old, same old, as this continues. I've seen more than a few quotes that make me think that they may surprise a lot of people with the direction they take Loki in. They could "cook up something completely new with the same ingredients" so to speak.
![]() Odin was strict with Thor, yes, maybe even harsh, but Thor seriously needed that massive kick in the pants, and reminder of who is King and who is not, or else he would never have changed. Nothing else would have done it *for that character*. The dynamic between Loki and Odin is very different. Thor didn't have the issue finding out he was lied to all his life about who he was and what his purpose in life was to be, or doubts about if he was loved as much as his sibling, and feelings of inadequacy all his life in comparison to his sibling... therefore, the dynamic between Odin-Loki is very different this way, and so as a result how Odin handles him should be different from the way he handled Thor. I'm not going to continue to argue about the rest of the stuff you said. I've said my peace on that so many times it exhausts me. we've had that run around I've had that run around a few times with different people as you know. And as you know I could argue and rebut until next November about all of that. All I ask is that you keep a bit of an open mind in the discussion, especially if you can't figure any other options that would fill the same plot holes and requirements. Because honestly I'm starting to feel like I can't even discuss the potential Loki plot here out in the open due to closemindedness on what they might do with the character. Which is sad because I came into this due to that MCU character. ![]() *sigh* another subject I guess... well while looking around on screenrant.com at some old articles about the potential directors, I found this quote interesting... Quote:
So while the movie is certainly called Thor The Dark World, it would seem that the intention will be to involve the rest of the characters much more, with more story arcs and narrative threads to deal with, which should be fun. Some people want it to be ignored I guess... *sigh...* Last edited by elizah72; 12-12-2012 at 10:20 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#392 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
read this entire thing before commenting, cause I kinda jump around I'm not close minded. I have a different opinion. And I don't despise Loki at all. I've said, aside from Thanos, Loki is my favorite villain. He is the character who got me looking at characters BEYOND their super powers. I don't despise him whatsoever. I know MCU Loki isn't comic book Loki. I KNOW that. Gosh I KNOW that. I've been following the MCU for almost 6 years now, I get how the characters differ lol. That's not where my conclusion is coming from. Elizah, I am simply not looking at the past content as deepy as you are, simply cause I don't think the answers lie there. thus drawing my assumptions from what I have seen in the MCU so far. As I said, I don't think the answers will be found from digging up the deep content, I think it will be more simple. That's just my OPINION (which IS all we have for now. Opinions) Now as for Odin dealing with Loki, I SAID i wouldn't prefer one way or the other. I am fine with either. I then said, I woundn't have a problem with it if they just prisoned him though, before his arc continues to unfold. My comment was simply the reason I think it will be that way. There is nothing close minded about it. You stated reasons for one, I stated reasons for another. Lol that doesn't mean I'm being closed minded. My conclusion is NOT brought from closemindedness, or hate. I drew this conclusion simply from what I have observed in the MCU so far without looking at it too deeply. My conclusion differs from yours. and that's fine. If Odin tries to get to Loki Elizah, that's fine with me. I have nothing wrong with that whatsoever. He is is son, I agree that regarding Odin, Loki is a bit more sensitive. If Odin doesn't reach out, I have no problem with that either. That is simply the path I THINK they are going to go with it. Now for my saying that Thor reaching out to Loki has to stop, How is that hatred? It isn't meant in a hostile way. All I mean, is Thor has reached out to Loki in two films now, and it seems that Thor reaching to him has run it's course. it's probably time for Thor to have a new approach towards his brother, cause he hasn't gotten through to him, so I think that by this movie, Thor should be reacting differently to his brother. You can't disagree with that, come on lol. I'm pretty sure you missed the point of my entire post EDIT: I see in my comment where I said "the reaching out to Loki needs to end", well there is the confusion. That was a typo, I meant to say, "Thor reaching out to Loki needs to end" So I see how that can throw things off lol I drew a conclusion based on the fact that I THINK the answers aren't so deeply hidden, that doesn't mean I am being a closed minded. I drew my conclusion from context, as you did yours, just different methods. That's that, please don't tell me I am being close minded and hate a character who made me interested in villains in the first place, comic book or movie, it is STILL loki, and I take offense to that, cause well, I'm one defensive SOB.
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 Last edited by jaqua99; 12-12-2012 at 11:26 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#393 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
I read over the first part of this by mistake. I agree, it certainly is a way to keep the tesseract relevant, and to give a reason to use it. ALSO, if Algrim happens to be present, an "accident" can certainly be what turns algrim into kurse.
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#394 | |||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]()
I guess your reply up there came off to me as being testy/annoyed about the topic or the very idea I was presenting regarding this possible plot element and Loki. as you know it can be difficult to convey tone on a messageboard. but that's how it came off to me.
Quote:
Quote:
![]() Quote:
Last edited by elizah72; 12-12-2012 at 02:48 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#395 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]() Quote:
![]() an "accident" or possibly the entity getting freed and attaching to another character, who then changes Algrim to Kurse (as previously speculated, possibly this is the Jane possession moment) Last edited by elizah72; 12-12-2012 at 12:11 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#396 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
but given how I am currently at school doing hw, I will make this brief. That much I do agree with. However, it would be Thor reaching out to him for the sake of plot, correct? Opposed to the prior two movies where it was Thor reaching out to "get his brother back". Reaching out to him in THAT aspect, I think has run it's course. Not that it's BAD. It's just, like, ok when is this guy going to understand he is beyond help, things like that. It's time for Thor to move on. Though of course for the sake of plot he'll have to go back to him. Which back to that, I still think he will be needing loki to get him to other realms opposed to asgard. Cause we know Loki knows ways through the realms. And idk, needing help to get to parts of asgard, when you can fly with a magical hammer, I would think that he wouldn't need help getting to a place in asgard lol right? and I know the whole, Loki having his moment of "redemption" to help thor, whether or not he has more, but I really hope, whether it be in this movie, or the next, he gets redemption by fighting surtur with his brother and his moment. It's such a classic moment in the run, the oppritunity IS THERE!!! lol I'd probably tear up if that happened on screen here's hoping
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#397 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
I am still on board with the tesseract just simply being an artifact of immense power, that takes a lot of knowledge to know how to use it, or understand it. Though it containing a spirit or something would be actually really cool. whether it be sentient or not, an artifact of that power, can certainly changed a confused little elf into Kurse.
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#398 | |||||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]() Quote:
![]() ![]() Quote:
Quote:
![]() Quote:
![]() And not only that, leading into Avengers 2, how about the angst that would be generated for Thor, if by the end of Thor 2 he and brother have made at least some amends, and he thinks he has his brother back, and then Thanos swoops in and grabs him to torture him, or forces him to do something bad again on pain of torture? Lots of great drama created by this, part of which also would be dealing with the rest of the Avengers angry feelings towards Loki and not caring what happens to him. So lots of potential for interesting dramatic tension there. But that won't work unless something changes for the current Loki-Thor relationship, so that needs to happen in this film. Otherwise, Loki gets captured by Thanos and nobody gives a crap but the fangirls. ![]() Quote:
On Malekith possessing her, on my start of a summary I sent AM in PM a little while ago, I guessed that he could do something similar to what Loki did to Erik at the end of Thor 1 ... sort of shadowing him to keep an eye on developments but not really possessing him, so that is certainly possible and a way for Malekith to keep an eye out for his best moments of opportunity (but using Jane instead). I also wondered if he could have used his power to direct her to go to Greenwich and the meridian line in the first place, if that particular location is needed for his plans, and Jane's work with portals is also a part of that. It all fits in pretty well I think. Last edited by elizah72; 12-12-2012 at 06:05 PM. |
|||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#399 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 8,174
|
![]() Quote:
i am still inclined to think its just an artifact, we shall see. But the whole selvig "she's an energy source"..well, regarding objects of value, I talk like that too, as do some men, so I think that comment you may be reading in a little bit too deeply :P
__________________
Don't forget to vote for the HULK Vs VISION fight http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=541065 New MCU battles will be held each week in the Marvel Films forum! Join our discussion on the MCU's Power Tier - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=535009 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#400 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|