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Old 12-11-2012, 04:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

I don't thinks retconning a white, straight, male character and making him black, gay, a women, etc is the right approach because that character's identity is still defined in terms of the straight, white, masculine dominance of society. I want a character who's shaped by his/her experiences and identity as a minority. It also just shows that these identities need a clutch in order to become popular. Even if Peter Parker becomes black, he still reflects the attitides of being developed as a white character. Turning a straight character gay is a little different, because it is entirely possible to be in the closet. I wouldn't be surprised if Iceman was in the closet, for example.


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Old 12-11-2012, 04:59 PM   #27
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

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I don't thinks retconning a white, straight, male character and making him black, gay, a women, etc is the right approach because that character's identity is still defined in terms of the straight, white, masculine dominance of society. I want a character who's shaped by his/her experiences and identity as a minority. It also just shows that these identities need a clutch in order to become popular. Even if Peter Parker becomes black, he still reflects the attitides of being developed as a white character. Turning a straight character gay is a little different, because it is entirely possible to be in the closet. I wouldn't be surprised if Iceman was in the closet, for example.
That's the thing, though, if it was done right it could open up whole new story opportunities for these characters.

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Old 12-13-2012, 04:54 PM   #28
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

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This. Forcing a character to be gay or creating an all new gay or ethnic character out of a desire just to have one for the novelty and not as a result of an organic storytelling will come off as trite and like a marketing scam to grab readers. We need it to be naturally occurring. Miles in USM who initially was felt by many to be a marketing move has, through not forcing his story, become the highest selling ( i believe ) Ultimate Universe book.


With regards to the religious aspect I've never felt the need to have to identify with the religious beliefs of the character in order to get more from it. Granted i'm atheist, but whether Captain Britain has a longer Lord's prayer than a Roman Catholic is a matter of in-consequence to me. Though are there any atheist superheroes or villains out of a matter of interest? None spring to mind really.


That all being said I always thought Peter Parker was some manner of Protestant whilst Bendis recently joked that he must be jewish because of the guilt
It seems like it depends who writes the books. Fraction's Iron Man made a reference or two to not believing in God but it wasn't at all a significant point of characterization, and I haven't seen any other writers get into it.

In Paul Cornell's Lex Luthor story, Luthor said he was atheist, and it played into why he hated Superman, but I haven't seen any other writers address that either.

Colossus mentioned being raised an atheist in the early Claremont/Byrne/Cockrum issues but I think they might have changed that as his relationship with Kitty Pryde developed.

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Old 12-13-2012, 05:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

Wasnt Mister Terrfic from the JSA an Athiest?

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Old 12-13-2012, 08:49 PM   #30
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

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Wasnt Mister Terrfic from the JSA an Athiest?
Man comics dont usually much get into any characters actual religion unless ts some kinda negative plot device (like say triathlon/ 3-d man)



BTW I like how marvel has created New characters mostly to fill these roles...no need to legacy heroes with cheap twists.

One new character I dug was ...


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Old 12-13-2012, 08:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

I want everyone in this thread to note that after how Avengers Academy was the perfect example of diversity in comics, Avengers Arena starts off by killing minorities

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Old 12-13-2012, 09:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

Yeah that just seems pathetic.

Is Striker, or whatever his name is, in the book?

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Old 12-14-2012, 01:08 AM   #33
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

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I want everyone in this thread to note that after how Avengers Academy was the perfect example of diversity in comics, Avengers Arena starts off by killing minorities
I don't know one person who is happy with Avengers Arena

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Old 12-14-2012, 03:40 AM   #34
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

Marvel does feel anvilicious when approaching these issues. I mean, the new Captain Marvel totally isn't Rosie the Riveter. =p The problem with these issues in comics is just, well, making an issue out of it. When you make a spectacle out of things, it just feels awkward, like "Yeah yeah, I get it. Tolerance and all that crap. Can we get back to the story?" Really, I honestly feel like Marvel doesn't know how to make a good LBG character (Can't throw T in there, cause you have Mrs. Sinister and She-Thor XD).

I think pictures speak louder than words on this one, though.


Boring, forced and stupid.


Fun, funny, fabulous for all.

Course, then again it is still all better than giving The Flash the power to travel back in time and inadvertently make the original Green Lantern gay.

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Old 12-14-2012, 03:56 AM   #35
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

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I want everyone in this thread to note that after how Avengers Academy was the perfect example of diversity in comics, Avengers Arena starts off by killing minorities
I always thought 90s title Generation X was a good diverse superteen book as well.

Teen superhero titles seem to be most diverse regarding race, religion and sexuality from what I've seen.

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Old 12-14-2012, 05:32 AM   #36
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I always thought 90s title Generation X was a good diverse superteen book as well.

Teen superhero titles seem to be most diverse regarding race, religion and sexuality from what I've seen.
And the less diverse regarding age

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Old 12-14-2012, 07:49 AM   #37
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

Though, they went and killed off half of Generation X as well.

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Old 12-16-2012, 09:00 PM   #38
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

Northstar's wedding made me feel weird. It was such a spectacle like some others have been saying. But hopefully after comics gets through this awkward phase it can handle gay characters a little better. The thing that makes Hulkling and Wiccan better characters than Northstar is that they have so much more to their characters... whether it be the Kree/Skrull stuff, magic, or being the son of Scarlet Witch. Northstar has nothing interesting aside from being gay. That's why he is the ultimate token.

Do you guys see Northstar and Kyle's wedding similarly to Storm and Black Panther's?

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Old 12-17-2012, 12:42 AM   #39
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

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Northstar's wedding made me feel weird. It was such a spectacle like some others have been saying. But hopefully after comics gets through this awkward phase it can handle gay characters a little better. The thing that makes Hulkling and Wiccan better characters than Northstar is that they have so much more to their characters... whether it be the Kree/Skrull stuff, magic, or being the son of Scarlet Witch. Northstar has nothing interesting aside from being gay. That's why he is the ultimate token.

Do you guys see Northstar and Kyle's wedding similarly to Storm and Black Panther's?
Well that's not true, he wasn't revealed to be gay until a certain point in his history.

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Old 12-20-2012, 03:10 PM   #40
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

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Wasnt Mister Terrfic from the JSA an Athiest?
Yes.

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Old 12-20-2012, 04:30 PM   #41
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Default Re: Representation in Marvel

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Northstar's wedding made me feel weird. It was such a spectacle like some others have been saying. But hopefully after comics gets through this awkward phase it can handle gay characters a little better. The thing that makes Hulkling and Wiccan better characters than Northstar is that they have so much more to their characters... whether it be the Kree/Skrull stuff, magic, or being the son of Scarlet Witch. Northstar has nothing interesting aside from being gay. That's why he is the ultimate token.

Do you guys see Northstar and Kyle's wedding similarly to Storm and Black Panther's?
The problem is that Marvel treated it as a spectacle as opposed to something natural. Northstar getting married isn't like Superman marrying Lois Lane or Spider-Man marrying Mary Jane. He's ****ing Northstar, a fringe character that only few people care about. The best way for gay marriage to become mainstream is by treating it as a regular event, not a spectacle.

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