Who should be the villain in an Avengers sequel? (Poll)

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

Well. I thought that way about IM3 too.
The Mandarin
Aldrich Killian
Coldblood
Firepower
Radioactive Man? (Wang Xuegi maybe/probablynot)
Madame Masque? (Stephanie Szostak, maybe/probablynot)

Maybe their goal is to load these phase 2 movies up with new characters to solidify future plot lines and spin offs and sequels.

possibly. I thought that they were adding all these characters for a reason though

[I'm Venom]

It would be better if they set up the Masters like they did the Avengers - a bunch of villains introduced over several films, and all the backstories would already have been told, so there would be a lot more action. By Avengers 3, you should have enough villains to do a version of this team, and assuming Captain America 3 brings in Baron Zemo, they're definitely on a path for the Masters of Evil.

[pr0xyt0xin]

I'll bite though, in some ways MoE is Whedon's "smaller and more personal" than Loki's army invasion. But in many ways its much, much bigger.

[J'adore]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

GOD. why is everyone so sure to include enchantress and executioner in a MCU MoE???

they havent been introduced, and they arent being introduced in phase 2. You cant pull them into Avengers 2 without being introduced in thor.

There are plenty of villains being introduced in phase 2

theres manderin, possibly radioactive man. Crossbones, whoever is pulling his strings (zemo) there is possibly malekith and kurse (if thanos is behind all this)

there is also a possibility of ultron if the rumor about the ironman 3 after credit scene is true? Why do a post credit scene of antman if hes not going to appear till phase 3?

plus we have abomination. there are plenty of characters to use for an MCU MoE without pulling enchantress/executioner out of no where

Huh? You mean just like what they did with Hawkeye & Maria Hill?

Enchantress would be a perfect addition in A2 if there were the MoE.

[Joeyjojo72]

Maria Hill isnt even in the same ballpark. Shes a glorified redshirt. And Hawkeye was introduced in Thor.

If they want to use Enchantess in A2 they would have to intro her in Thor 2. Are they? I havent heard or read that.

And I have no idea why folks are so keen on having the MoE in the movie. Waaaay too many characters. One or two villains tops. Plus minions of course.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

It would be better if they set up the Masters like they did the Avengers - a bunch of villains introduced over several films, and all the backstories would already have been told, so there would be a lot more action. By Avengers 3, you should have enough villains to do a version of this team, and assuming Captain America 3 brings in Baron Zemo, they're definitely on a path for the Masters of Evil.

which again, they could STILL do that if they wanted to do them in Avengers 2. A lot of villains are getting introduced in phase 2 it seems. They could certainly try to do that.

As for Avengers 3, I still think Thanos will be in that. I feel like that will be an infinity gauntlet movie

Originally Posted by J'adore

Huh? You mean just like what they did with Hawkeye & Maria Hill?

Enchantress would be a perfect addition in A2 if there were the MoE.

See below. It's different. Enchantress and executioner have something the belong in. Thor's world. They aren't going to be in thor 2 apparently. They wouldn't just introduce two important members of thor's rogue gallery in the avengers without them getting an introduction in a thor movie. but see below

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

Maria Hill isnt even in the same ballpark. Shes a glorified redshirt. And Hawkeye was introduced in Thor.

If they want to use Enchantess in A2 they would have to intro her in Thor 2. Are they? I havent heard or read that.

And I have no idea why folks are so keen on having the MoE in the movie. Waaaay too many characters. One or two villains tops. Plus minions of course.

exactly. And no reason. It's just fun speculating off what mr. wardell said. Regardless if he's right or not, he leads to some fun speculation, and is increasing my anticipation lol

[J'adore]

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

Maria Hill isnt even in the same ballpark. Shes a glorified redshirt. And Hawkeye was introduced in Thor.

If they want to use Enchantess in A2 they would have to intro her in Thor 2. Are they? I havent heard or read that.

And I have no idea why folks are so keen on having the MoE in the movie. Waaaay too many characters. One or two villains tops. Plus minions of course.

Maria Hill is FAR from a glorified redshirt. That would mean she would have died in The Avengers....In a glorified manner. Which she didn't.

I'm not keen on it at all. I'm pretty much against it. But this is hypothetical.

Also a cameo for 2 seconds is not 'introducing' a character. Did we know he was gonna be in Thor? No. For all we know, they could slip in Amora in Thor 2. We just don't know.....

[pr0xyt0xin]

Yeah, I have absolutely no reason for thinking that could happen. Let me walk you through the steps my mind went through:

1. Thanos should be saved for Avengers 3.
2. Ultron could be an awesome villain for Avengers 2.
3. But then why is Radioactive Man rumored for IM3?
4. And what if Baron Zemo is indeed behind the evils of CA:TWS?
5. If that were the case, they'd have the start of a pretty decent MoE. Who else would I want in a MCU MoE?
6. Amora and Skurge.
7. Well, maybe they'll find a way to sneak them into Thor:TDW (if only subtly.)
8. Is there a way for them to put MoE and Ultron in the same movie? Ultron did lead the MoE for a while in the comics.
9. Well, it could be a cinematic representation of the different variations of the MoE as seen in the comics (just like their representation of Loki being the first threat the Avengers faced).
10. Zemo leads the crew (Radioactive Man, Enchantress and Executioner) until Ultron is unleashed, potentially severing the current head (Zemo) and taking over.
11. We get to see Loki as first threat, MoE and Ultron as continued threats (with potential ties to Thanos) and Thanos in A3 as the pinnacle threat in the trilogy.
12. All the while Marvel Studios gets to stretch their legs with new challenges, having created a cohesive universe and superhero team up (which many said could not be done) battle an urban metropolitan alien invasion, their next goal can be to create a supervillain team up (which many say cannot be done). And finally see a All vs. One brawl of The Avengers vs. Thanos in Avengers 3 (which I'm sure many including myself feel would be difficult to achieve cinematically).

[cherokeesam]

The Radioactive Man rumors have pretty much been shut down. Wang Xuequi is *not* playing Chen Lu, as originally rumored; just a "Dr. Wu," who seems to be nothing more than a surgeon, probably the one who gives Tony the Extremis operation. You've got conspiracy theorists who think it's a case of Talia al-Ghul and Robin all over again, with misdirection 'n' subterfuge and all that, but let's keep in mind: the MCU does NOT play by Nolan rules.

As for Zemo: that's completely a guess. But a popular one amongst most of us, including me. Simply because it makes sense, and because Zemo is really Cap's second biggest "name" foe behind Red Skull. Still, there's been no official indication yet that Zemo will be in CATWS.

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

1. Thanos should be saved for Avengers 3.

They build him up in Guardians of the Galaxy then bring him into Avengers 2, it's called character development. If two movies can't do him justice, a third and fourth won't help. Besides, didn't Jim Starlin confirm Thanos was in Avengers 2? If this is true, it won't be the gauntlet, it will be the cube. It was his first attempt at omnipotence, and he failed.

Masters of Evil could work out pretty well if they use the movies to hype the villains. Build up the list of surviving villains, then use them in Avengers 3.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

They build him up in Guardians of the Galaxy then bring him into Avengers 2, it's called character development. If two movies can't do him justice, a third and fourth won't help. Besides, didn't Jim Starlin confirm Thanos was in Avengers 2? If this is true, it won't be the gauntlet, it will be the cube. It was his first attempt at omnipotence, and he failed.

Masters of Evil could work out pretty well if they use the movies to hype the villains. Build up the list of surviving villains, then use them in Avengers 3.

If Jim Starlin did confirm that, who is to say Thanos won't be a minor role in A2 and the star of A3? It's still called character development. The idea is that Thanos is essentially in charge of the wrong-doings of the entire trilogy. And why not? As I've said many times before Marvel can do whatever they want, and I assume theyre gonna want to do something unique.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

The Radioactive Man rumors have pretty much been shut down. Wang Xuequi is *not* playing Chen Lu, as originally rumored; just a "Dr. Wu," who seems to be nothing more than a surgeon, probably the one who gives Tony the Extremis operation. You've got conspiracy theorists who think it's a case of Talia al-Ghul and Robin all over again, with misdirection 'n' subterfuge and all that, but let's keep in mind: the MCU does NOT play by Nolan rules.

As for Zemo: that's completely a guess. But a popular one amongst most of us, including me. Simply because it makes sense, and because Zemo is really Cap's second biggest "name" foe behind Red Skull. Still, there's been no official indication yet that Zemo will be in CATWS.

yup, and I really hope zemo turns up

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

They build him up in Guardians of the Galaxy then bring him into Avengers 2, it's called character development. If two movies can't do him justice, a third and fourth won't help. Besides, didn't Jim Starlin confirm Thanos was in Avengers 2? If this is true, it won't be the gauntlet, it will be the cube. It was his first attempt at omnipotence, and he failed.

Masters of Evil could work out pretty well if they use the movies to hype the villains. Build up the list of surviving villains, then use them in Avengers 3.

this is like a contradictiion. I can't see Masters of evil working, persiod. You are saying basically that Thanos WILL be around for phase 3. Think about what you just said. as for the bolded part. It won't be the gauntlet, it will be the cube.

If that is so, where does the gauntlet come in? The whole IG appearing in Odin's treasure room. Not to mention someone wheeling the prop behind whedon, or fiege or whoever, and he is like, "you're not suppose to see that yet!"

and the after credit scene, they zoomed in on thanos' bare hand, most likely forshadowing. The infinity gauntlet will more than likely play a role in thanos' story. there is way too much going for it, and pointing to it. If the masters of evil don't appear in phase 2, then we won't see them till after thanos is done. Whenever that is. But if you think the cube will be thanos' story in avengers 2, how can you think that will be it? When the IG has been hinted at many times?

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

If Jim Starlin did confirm that, who is to say Thanos won't be a minor role in A2 and the star of A3? It's still called character development. The idea is that Thanos is essentially in charge of the wrong-doings of the entire trilogy. And why not? As I've said many times before Marvel can do whatever they want, and I assume theyre gonna want to do something unique.

There's a reason Whedon introduced us to the Mad Titan as the closing statement of the first film. He didn't tease us to then not use Thanos in the next film. Just doesn't make sense. Especially since there will have to be plenty of solo adventures in between Avengers 2 and Avengers 3.

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

and the after credit scene, they zoomed in on thanos' bare hand, most likely forshadowing. The infinity gauntlet will more than likely play a role in thanos' story. there is way too much going for it, and pointing to it. If the masters of evil don't appear in phase 2, then we won't see them till after thanos is done. Whenever that is. But if you think the cube will be thanos' story in avengers 2, how can you think that will be it? When the IG has been hinted at many times?

Down the line, if Marvel could keep things from flying apart, there might be such possibilities as a live action Infinity Gauntlet, but those odds are slim.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

There's a reason Whedon introduced us to the Mad Titan as the closing statement of the first film. He didn't tease us to then not use Thanos in the next film. Just doesn't make sense. Especially since there will have to be plenty of solo adventures in between Avengers 2 and Avengers 3.

that's not what we are saying. NO ONE is saying he won't be in phase 2. we are saying that he wont be concluded in phase 2. meaning he WILL be in avengers 2, guardians of the galaxy, yeah. But he will ALSO be in phase 3. I don't think anyone is saying he WONT be in avengers 2

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

Down the line, if Marvel could keep things from flying apart, there might be such possibilities as a live action Infinity Gauntlet, but those odds are slim.

they really arent, there's been a lot of hints pointing to that direction with thanos.

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

that's not what we are saying. NO ONE is saying he won't be in phase 2. we are saying that he wont be concluded in phase 2. meaning he WILL be in avengers 2, guardians of the galaxy, yeah. But he will ALSO be in phase 3. I don't think anyone is saying he WONT be in avengers 2

they really arent, there's been a lot of hints pointing to that direction with thanos.

Marvel hasn't said anything about Phase 3, and that's the only fact we have. What else can you tell me about future franchises? I want to know. We have no idea.

[pr0xyt0xin]

If they are done with Thanos after Avengers 2 they run the risk of third act curse seen time and time again. TDKR may or may not have broken it, but at least they tried and made a solid trilogy by tying Bane to the League of Shadows from film 1 and allowing them to be a potentially even greater threat than The Joker. IM3 is also making a solid attempt by using Stark's greatest threat (Mandarin).

Phase 2 and 3 need to ramp up to a FINAL showdown with The Avenger's most POWERFUL adversary. Who I'm gonna go ahead and say is Thanos, (Galactus being unusable and more specifically the MU as a whole's greatest threat) with or without the infinity gauntlet. WITH the IG, he could blink the MoE or Ultron away.

EDIT: Keeping in mind, I didn't always think this. I was convinced by Hype-goers that this was the way to go because they made such convincing arguments.

[cherokeesam]

I fail to see where the Avengers will have a "third act." They'll have a third *installment,* as well as a fourth, and so on.

Don't know why some of you insist on believing in a "trilogy" that is not there, nor has there ever been any indication by Feige or anyone else that they're trying to trilogize this.

If you accept the logical conclusion that Avengers is a franchise, instead of a story arc, then it's easier to understand that life goes on after Thanos.

[Chewy]

Yeah Kevin Feige definitely never mentioned things building into a culmination in Phase 3

The exact trajectory of where Thanos goes from here isn't entirely known, but most fans feel it's all but certain that the Mad Titan will appear in "Guardians of the Galaxy," going on to serve as the major villain of Joss Whedon's "Avengers" sequel. Feige's lips are sealed when it comes to the particulars, but he's quick to add that there is a very clear plan in place for Thanos' next appearance.

"Clearly, there's a purpose to us putting him in the end of that movie. We do have plans for him," said Feige. "I wouldn't say we ever feel the need to rush anything one way or the other. We succeeded in Phase One because we stuck to our guns and stuck to the plan. That plan took place over many, many years and it ultimately paid off. I see Phase Two unfolding in the same way of us taking our time, us doing what's right for each individual movie, while folding in elements that will not only build up to the culmination of Phase Two, but even Phase Three."

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/09/20...l-kevin-feige/

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I fail to see where the Avengers will have a "third act." They'll have a third *installment,* as well as a fourth, and so on.

wtf does this even mean? idgaf whether you call it an "act" or an "installment" or a friggin "banana-hammock" if it makes you feel better.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Don't know why some of you insist on believing in a "trilogy" that is not there, nor has there ever been any indication by Feige or anyone else that they're trying to trilogize this.

If you accept the logical conclusion that Avengers is a franchise, instead of a story arc, then it's easier to understand that life goes on after Thanos.

I don't like trilogies. I think its silly to cram characters like Batman and Spider-Man into 3 movies when they each deserve over a dozen. I don't understand why they are stretching The Hobbit, a book shorter than each individual LotR book, into a trilogy.

But Hollywood likes trilogies. Avengers 1, 2 and 3 will be announced as The Avengers Trilogy bundle on Blu-Ray as soon as its out of theaters. Whether it continues on from there is up to Marvel. MANY films originally thought to be trilogies have a fourth installment. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Die Hard. Just because a conclusion to an arc has been made doesnt destroy a franchise.

EDIT: I find it hard to believe you've been posting here for a year and a half and you've never heard the term "third act curse" before.

[I'm Venom]

Yes, it's possible Thanos could appear in Avengers 3, but he doesn't have to be the be-all end-all of villains. You could go from him to someone else if it's set up properly. There are lots of villains to use and ways they can top Thanos.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

Just because a conclusion to an arc has been made doesnt destroy a franchise.

It's this simple.

Furthermore, a planned trilogy is a much more successful road to a fourth installment (Lord of the Rings, Star Wars) than going one by one (X-Men, Spider-Man). Nowadays once you have that stinker, you need a reboot of some sort.

Originally Posted by Chewy

Yeah Kevin Feige definitely never mentioned things building into a culmination in Phase 3


http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/09/20...l-kevin-feige/

To say nothing of the 3, 6 and 9 picture deals they made.

Trilogy and then another trilogy. Why not?

[pr0xyt0xin]

I think Kang would be great for an Avengers 4. Korvac would be my second choice were he to be used in a GotG/Avengers super-teamup.

[I'm Venom]

I don't think Kang would make for a suitable villain for an Avengers movie, the Masters of Evil are a group I'd love to see made as a reaction to the forming of the Avengers. Many of Kang's stories are complex and wouldn't really translate well onto film.

[cherokeesam]

The exact trajectory of where Thanos goes from here isn't entirely known, but most fans feel it's all but certain that the Mad Titan will appear in "Guardians of the Galaxy," going on to serve as the major villain of Joss Whedon's "Avengers" sequel. Feige's lips are sealed when it comes to the particulars, but he's quick to add that there is a very clear plan in place for Thanos' next appearance.

"Clearly, there's a purpose to us putting him in the end of that movie. We do have plans for him," said Feige. "I wouldn't say we ever feel the need to rush anything one way or the other. We succeeded in Phase One because we stuck to our guns and stuck to the plan. That plan took place over many, many years and it ultimately paid off. I see Phase Two unfolding in the same way of us taking our time, us doing what's right for each individual movie, while folding in elements that will not only build up to the culmination of Phase Two, but even Phase Three."

Again (and we ALL know we've ALL been over this particular flamewar before, several times....): where does Feige's quote indicate any sort of finality or trilogy-ality to the Avengers? Does this quote imply there WON'T be an Avengers 4, or Phase 4? Nope.

And where does that quote indicate any kind of overarching story, that some of you insist on believing in? "Folding in elements that will not only build up to the culmination of Phase Two, but even Phase Three" could be very easily, and very logically, explained as introducing elements such as AIM and/or HYDRA in Phase II, to become the Avenger foe for Avengers 3; or introducing the Kree in Phase II, to lead up to the Kree-Skrull War for Avengers 3; or introduce Surtur in Phase II, to lead up to Ragnarok for Avengers 3; or introduce assorted villains in Phase II to team up as the MoE to do battle in Avengers 3; or introduce Hank Pym in Phase II to create Ultron as the main baddie for Avengers 3....I could go on. Should I go on?

...Because nowhere in that quote does Feige prohibitively state, "This clearly means that Thanos is the element we're setting up in Phase II to come back (again) as the villain in Phase III."